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999 SPOILERS Discussion Thread

Hours Left

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Jun 28, 2006
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Just got this game a few days ago for my birthday, and recently got the last ending I needed (Axe).

A couple things I didn't see mentioned here or on the answers page on the official site (sorry if they were though):

Does anybody else think the game foreshadowed June's true identity and bracelet number pretty early on? At one point she tells Junpei the number of men she's dated is, "18... times 0."

1 + 8 = 9 (her bracelet number)

18 x 0 = 0 (she's Zero)

I also saw people wondering why she got a fever after the 9th man was killed, and unless I'm remembering wrong, they didn't answer this on the official site. So was that fever caused because their version of the Nonary Game was already different than the one held nine years ago due to the death of the 9th man? And I'm assuming the fever went away as the game got back on track since having the 9th man out of the game wouldn't hinder the progress of the rest of the participants.
Regarding June's quote about the amount of men she's dated, it was most likely intentional considering how many other hints and plays on root numbers they hid in the game. (Cap's bracelet, the coffin combination, etc.)

Regarding her fever when the 9th man dies, I remember having some discussions about that before. As you mentioned, the common assumption is that June's fever is a direct result of something happening during the nonary game that doesn't lead to Junpei reaching the final puzzle, but her first fever attack in the game is unavoidable. This leads to speculation that the 9th Man wasn't supposed to die, or at least not at that time, but she was still able to course correct despite that occurance.

My question is then, is there a "perfect" run through of the nonary game? One where she never has a fever? (And if so, why isn't it available in the game?) Or is this just the route that has the least amount of variables that can get things off course? Meaning, the death of the 9th Man is a branching point that can ultimately lead to multiple different scenarios that could result in June disappearing, in addition to possibility of the desired outcome of Junepei reaching the end.

It would of been cool IMO if after you unlock the Safe ending you could play through the game without the 9th Man dying. (Perhaps you'd still hear the explosion, but when the door opens, his body isn't there and he pops up later, after you go through door #9.) Of course, they'd have to change some other plot points, so it may have been too much to ask. Still an interesting idea though.
 

hao chi

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Sep 27, 2011
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Regarding June's quote about the amount of men she's dated, it was most likely intentional considering how many other hints and plays on root numbers they hid in the game. (Cap's bracelet, the coffin combination, etc.)

Regarding her fever when the 9th man dies, I remember having some discussions about that before. As you mentioned, the common assumption is that June's fever is a direct result of something happening during the nonary game that doesn't lead to Junpei reaching the final puzzle, but her first fever attack in the game is unavoidable. This leads to speculation that the 9th Man wasn't supposed to die, or at least not at that time, but she was still able to course correct despite that occurance.

My question is then, is there a "perfect" run through of the nonary game? One where she never has a fever? (And if so, why isn't it available in the game?) Or is this just the route that has the least amount of variables that can get things off course? Meaning, the death of the 9th Man is a branching point that can ultimately lead to multiple different scenarios that could result in June disappearing, in addition to possibility of the desired outcome of Junepei reaching the end.

It would of been cool IMO if after you unlock the Safe ending you could play through the game without the 9th Man dying. (Perhaps you'd still hear the explosion, but when the door opens, his body isn't there and he pops up later, after you go through door #9.) Of course, they'd have to change some other plot points, so it may have been too much to ask. Still an interesting idea though.

My reaction when the 9th man died was "More like 989, lol."

I wonder how well the Nonary game would have even worked out with the 9th man alive. Ace mentioned in one of the endings (Safe, I think) he wanted to see if this was a cheap replica of the original game or actually dangerous. No telling what he would have done if he didn't think they were all in danger.

If Ace didn't trick the 9th man into dying, would Santa and June still assume there's a chance Ace will go after Snake? If they do and decide to hide Snake in the coffin, and Ace doesn't do anything, then you have some person wandering around drugged up and dressed like Snake, which could be pretty disastrous. If they decide it's safe to leave Snake in the game and Ace decides to do something though, then the rest of the game could be ruined. Even though Snake wouldn't actually die because he didn't have a bomb in him, everybody else would realize they also don't have a bomb when they decided to check Door 3, and they mentioned numerous times danger was important to making the morphogenetic field work properly.

So I think you're right about having the 9th man die would lead to the least amount of variables that could impede the progress of the rest of the game.



Seriously tempted to buy a 3DS for this game.

At the very least I'll day 1 it then play it on my brother's Vita at Christmas.
 

Hours Left

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So I think you're right about having the 9th man die would lead to the least amount of variables that could impede the progress of the rest of the game.
But then that brings up the question of why June had the fever attack at all, if the 9th Man's death was part of the desired route. If fever = bad, then why would she have one during the "True" route?

If every possible scenario is being projected into the morphogenetic field, why isn't Akane setting up the "perfect" run? (If there is one.) And if so, why isn't that the one presented in the game through the True End? Isn't that the whole point?

Personally, the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it may just be a plot hole. I guess you can explain it away by saying that Akane was just trying to act the part. (I don't remember if Junpei physically felt her skin to see if she was warm or not. She may be a mastermind, but I don't think you can fake body temperature, at least not that easily.)

Though maybe a perfect, "feverless" run was dependent on too many variables that had a chance to go wrong. (The chief cause being the 9th Man.) Maybe Akane saw this other run that still resulted in Junpei reaching the end, but required the possibility of a rouge circumstance (ie. Ace's interference leading to the 9th Man's death) but was the easiest route to course correct. Perhaps Ace's treacherous ways are easier to predict/control as compared to the 9th Man. (He was quite unstable.)

Ah, theories. I wish they would have address this in THE ANSWERS.
 

hao chi

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But then that brings up the question of why June had the fever attack at all, if the 9th Man's death was part of the desired route. If fever = bad, then why would she have one during the "True" route?

I'm assuming the fever is merely happening because their game is already different than the previous one, even if that's what June considered the desired route. Any differentiation will cause a fever until the game gets back on course (I think). If everyone survived and things went according to the previous game, she wouldn't get a fever.

I don't think Junpei felt her head at that point, though he did set her on a chair if I'm remembering right. I don't see why June would need to fake a fever though.

A perfect run might not be possible though, because regardless of how much June and Santa are manipulating the game and the participants, they still can't fully control everyone's actions, and since there's different people participating in the current Nonary game, they may act in an undesirable manner. I think you also brought up a good point about the 9th man being unstable, and how he could have been difficult to predict.

Would June really want to do a "perfect run" though? Her goals were to both save herself and get revenge on the organizers of the first Nonary Game. Maybe she just felt that was a good time to take care of the 9th man, and by doing so she killed two birds with one stone, since his death got her some revenge and greatly added to the feeling of danger in the game.
 

Akselziys

Aksys Games Dev.
Feb 18, 2009
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Since VLR is steadily approaching, I thought I'd try and help with the excitement by posting pictures of the characters from 999 as they looked 9 years prior ;)

(Extracted from my scans of the 999/VLR art book)


Spoilers for 999! Click and highlight at your own risk ;)


Ace
Gentarou Hongou (41 years old)

http://i.imgur.com/MkSSg.jpg


Snake
Light (15 years old)

http://i.imgur.com/uESyD.jpg


Santa
Aoi Kurashiki (15 years old)

http://i.imgur.com/qb7NJ.jpg


Clover
(9 years old)

http://i.imgur.com/momQq.jpg


Junpei
(12 years old)

http://i.imgur.com/bYfhs.jpg


June
Akane Kurashiki (12 Years Old)

http://i.imgur.com/MT9FK.jpg


Seven
(36 years old)

http://i.imgur.com/7usm5.jpg


Lotus
Hazuki Kashiwabara (31 years old)

http://i.imgur.com/mqK22.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TElH8.jpg


The Ninth Man
Teruaki Kubota (9 years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/zavIu.jpg


Kidnapped children from 9 years ago

http://i.imgur.com/NL3xb.jpg


Nona Kashiwabara (12 years old)

http://i.imgur.com/KFwgp.jpg


Hope you guys enjoy :D!
 

idlethreats

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Since VLR is steadily approaching, I thought I'd try and help with the excitement by posting pictures of the characters from 999 as they looked 9 years prior ;)

(Extracted from my scans of the 999/VLR art book)
Nice, thank you! Is this an art book that was released in Japan? Any chances of it coming out in North America?
 

Akselziys

Aksys Games Dev.
Feb 18, 2009
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Nice, thank you! Is this an art book that was released in Japan? Any chances of it coming out in North America?

Yeah, the book was released in Japan in March :)

There aren't any plans of it coming stateside unless Udon decided to do it or something >.<



Ah, thanks. When IS that sequel coming, anyways?



Haha, Lotus actually looks OLDER.

All that dancing must be really good for you.

Amazon seems to think it's October 24th? ;)

And dancing does a body good!


Is it wrong that I like Lotus more with those clothes than with her belly dancer outfit?

She does look pretty hip. Reminds me of a rich socialite haha
 

Akselziys

Aksys Games Dev.
Feb 18, 2009
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Since this is the 999 spoiler thread, I won't spoiler tag these, gunna let these pics all hang out ;)

These are the 999 novel covers/backs, which are pretty sweet :3

(just samples, since if I put my own scans, I don't think that would be allowed :x)


Novel 1 Cover




Novel 1 Back Cover




Novel 2 Cover




Novel 2 Back Cover




The black and white art inside is pretty great too, but I don't think I'm allowed to post those >.<
 

Mistle

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Jun 8, 2009
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Finished the true ending and read enough speculation that I feel I've wrapped my head around the core of the story pretty well.

Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed (just a bit!). I absolutely loved the game and the true ending was extremely exciting and interesting, but I expected a bit more in terms of tying all the plot points up neatly and having a warm conclusive ending to Akane/Junpei. Hell, they hardly had an ending at all, which left me really unsatisfied. I know the answers section says Akane had to go begin further plans, which hopefully the trilogy will expand upon, but it still made the 999 ending feel lacking in regards to concluding Junpei/Akane's relationship.
So, according to the 999 answers, Junpei seriously spends the rest of his life searching for her? Wha.... that's ridiculous.
And there's Alice, which was just... stupid :/ When "End" popped up I was expecting to be smiling and thinking "wow, what an ending!" but instead I was kind of like "wait.... what? it's over?". Not what I was expecting from the game, which had kept me hooked and faithful the whole way.

I know it seems I'm being negative but I really did love the experience! It was the greatest game I've played in a good while and I can't wait for the sequal. I guess it's just more interesting to talk about the things that bothered you instead of all the amazing things that wowed you!

Does the sequel continue on directly from 999? I assume we'll get Alice answers and such, but I really hope the sequels conclude what was presented in 999 a bit better. However I doubt it, they'll probably just have their own set of questions to be answered.
Can somebody point me in the direction of VLR gameplay videos? I really want to see it in action but I can't find any! I'm worried the 3D models/environments don't have as much charm as sprites and minimal animation.
EDIT: Found a gameplay vid of the Japanese demo. The 3D models and environments actually look pretty good!
 

Mistle

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from 999 answers:

"Who killed me in the submarine ending? It's the only one I didn't understand, though I do admit I may have missed something.

It's Ace (Gentarou). Lotus's missing bracelet was a hint for you guys."


Is this answer a mistake, or....? Ace was shown dead. I read a theory that it was the man locked in the captains room but that theory comes with a whole heap of problems also. Hmm.
 

Akselziys

Aksys Games Dev.
Feb 18, 2009
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from 999 answers:

"Who killed me in the submarine ending? It's the only one I didn't understand, though I do admit I may have missed something.

It's Ace (Gentarou). Lotus's missing bracelet was a hint for you guys."


Is this answer a mistake, or....? Ace was shown dead. I read a theory that it was the man locked in the captains room but that theory comes with a whole heap of problems also. Hmm.

It was Ace, he was just faking being dead ;)
 

Hours Left

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Jun 28, 2006
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from 999 answers:

"Who killed me in the submarine ending? It's the only one I didn't understand, though I do admit I may have missed something.

It's Ace (Gentarou). Lotus's missing bracelet was a hint for you guys."


Is this answer a mistake, or....? Ace was shown dead. I read a theory that it was the man locked in the captains room but that theory comes with a whole heap of problems also. Hmm.
Junpei didn't check Ace's pulse, only Clover's. Ace was faking it.
 

Jintor

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Oct 22, 2009
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I wish 999 had a scene viewer or some shit. I don't particularly want to replay the whole thing again, but I do want to revisit some of the crazy-ass bullshit
 

Hero

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Just beat this and got the True Ending. My mind is blown.

Also why does Lotus dress like a stripper?

Have to sleep on some things, will be back tomorrow for discussion.
 

cnet128

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When "End" popped up I was expecting to be smiling and thinking "wow, what an ending!" but instead I was kind of like "wait.... what? it's over?".

Fair warning: I never had this reaction to 999, but I had it big time with the sequel.

(I love the sequel anyway though. Everybody buy it to make sure the trilogy gets completed. Otherwise I will die unfulfilled.)
 

Mistle

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Fair warning: I never had this reaction to 999, but I had it big time with the sequel.
well, by "that's it?", I dont mean to say the entire ending was a let down. The whole incinerator section and all the revelations were gripping. In fact, I loved the entire ending up to when they escaped. I just expected something more conclusive. And the final shot of Alice left a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm pumped for the sequel so hopefully I don't have a similar reaction to it :O
 

cnet128

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well, by "that's it?", I dont mean to say the entire ending was a let down. The whole incinerator section and all the revelations were gripping. In fact, I loved the entire ending up to when they escaped. I just expected something more conclusive. And the final shot of Alice left a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm pumped for the sequel so hopefully I don't have a similar reaction to it :O

Yes, that's exactly what I mean for the sequel. Most of the ending was a glorious rush of revelations and general win, but the actual moment when it ended was really jarring and things weren't tied up quite as satisfactorily as I'd like.

Of course, I suppose VLR has more excuse in that area than 999 would, since there was a clear intention to follow it up with a third game.
 

Mistle

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Most of the ending was a glorious rush of revelations and general win, but the actual moment when it ended was really jarring and things weren't tied up quite as satisfactorily as I'd like.
Seems like fantastic endings with disappointing final 2 minutes is becoming a Zero Escape trend... lol. But yeah, now knowing it all leads up to a trilogy, perhaps it's understandable.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
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I just played through the game and got every ending, including the main ending.

I noticed a few issues:

1) When the 9th Man dies, his bracelet is still on the floor. Thus, the bombs do not destroy the bracelets. However, when Ace kills Fake-Snake, this is not held to be consistent. Fake-Snake has a 2 bracelet on, otherwise Ace wouldn't have been able to trigger the 3 door, but when he is exploded, no bracelet is found. Ace doesn't take it, since we never see Ace fess to it later. In the true ending, before Santa takes June hostage, everyone's like "welp, guess it's impossible for us all to get out alive". Clover stole the 0 bracelet from the captain, and everyone knows the rules word for word, so it's clear that everyone knows that bracelets off dead people will work*, so why didn't anyone pipe up with "Well, we just need a 2 bracelet, one of us should double back to Snake's corpse and get it"?

* 2) Translation issue? There are two ways to take off the bracelet. Get off the ship or die. When either happens, according to the in-game text, the bracelet will de-activate. This is not true. The bracelet does not deactivate, it just detaches. Its function still works fine.

3) The doors. In the Chapel, the rule is that once a door is activated, it can never again be activated. That's why the groups can't go through the 9 door twice in a row, and why it's significant that there are two separate 9 doors. However, in the incinerator in the past, the 9 door activates twice; once when Snake lets half the kids go, and once when Akane/June later on de-activates it after telepathically solving the sudoku puzzle. Moreover, when everyone wants to see Snake's body from the big hospital room, there's a big deal made out of how the un-numbered door has been wedged open, so that they "don't need to bother going through the 3 door." I'm virtually certain the game's text does not make reference to the "only go through once" rule. The doors can clearly be opened more than once, since the initial 5 door is opened when 9 gets killed and again later, and they also practice open one of the 9 doors in the chapel, and I think at least one other case. So does the door only lock to being permanently engaged when a group successfully gets through and authorizes on the DEAD?

4) Finally, I agree with other posters in this thread -- the Alice/Allice plot is sort of stupid. It's a bit of a red herring. She clearly exists, but her reveal at the end of the game has no significance whatsoever. I don't mind the supernatural gobblygook, but why is she wandering the Nevada desert? There was no Alice in Building Q, there was no Alice in the ship 9 years ago, so the real Alice thawed out at some past time... and... wandered the desert for no reason?

5) I actually get the time travel plot. Only Seven's "amnesia" makes no sense. Akane needs to survive to become Zero and set up the second game. Thus, Akane's survival is not "across multiple timelines". It's in the same timeline. So it's a paradox where she sees the future, survives, and then creates the future in order to ensure her past survival. No problem. Also explains why she's sick, like the 999 answers site says, it's when you diverge from the timeline and the paradox begins to collapse. But why don't Seven and Snake make a big deal out of it? According to the 999 answers site, Seven has an implanted fake memory--what the christ, this is a terrible explanation and clearly not satisfactory. But how could Seven be in on it? He stays with the main team during the True Ending, rather than running away with Santa and Akane. Is he not aware that he, too, is an accomplice to multiple murder? Sure he plays by his own rules, but what's his plan if he turns in Ace? To admit he was part of an elaborate kidnap scheme just to catch Ace to then turn him over to Justice? This is silly. But assume we disregard Seven, and Snake is still a problem. But Snake's approach doesn't make sense. He says a girl named Akane died. She did not. Blind or not, he would have been aware that she survived. Which means Snake needs to be in on it too? This makes absolutely no sense.

6) It makes no sense that no one catches up to Santa+Akane. This is not a satisfying resolution. Why is Akane going on the run? She is scared of being caught and punished for her actions? This makes no sense. Either the triple murder is part of the future she perceived (in which case, her actions were unavoidable and she has no reason to feel guilt, although she is trading three bad lives for her own, so the utilitarian question is interesting there) OR she didn't need to kill those people, but chose to anyway, in which case her conscience is apparently clear. Is she worried about answering to the law or to Junpei? She clearly has love for Junpei, at least as strong as the love we see between her and Santa... Why are Santa and Akane on the run at all? Shouldn't they have at least stuck around to see whether or not the whole thing went over okay with everyone else? Also, Santa and Akane are multi-millionaires who rig this whole thing up (see: 999 Answers, Santa mentioning his stock market money)--and according to the 999 answers, they had dozens of helpers, which is logical... so how could they run from the law? If they believed they needed to make a run for it because Seven (who, again, needs to basically be in on it for the plot to work?) is going to NARC them out, won't some of their many employees narc them out? Or their asset trail? Won't they be wanted international fugitives, since their names will be publicized?

7) How did Santa and Akane get Building Q from the pharmaceutical company? Why didn't the pharmaceutical company bulldoze it after the last Nonagram game? They kept around essentially the world's largest collection of evidence that they committed massive illegal acts? If they did keep it, why would they sell it without stripping it down? Or did Santa and Akane build a replica of Building Q, not the real thing? Zuh?

8) Why was Ace offered the chance to repent? This would not have satisfied the future paradox. It seems like an awfully big gamble to tell Ace that the option is there, even if you know he's a horrible guy and he's not going to take it. The letter could have read "To survive the Nonagram game, you must meet with a man in the Captain's Quarters. Tell no one.", and this plan would have been better.

9) The whole "childhood lovers drifted apart because they went to separate schools" is absurd. The game is set in the present tense. The childhood scenes are set in something like 2007. You're telling me two ten year olds couldn't keep in touch? Why not? This makes no sense. That plot is incredibly thin when you're talking 1950 and people moving to different countries, it's farce in 2007 when you're talking different schools maybe even in the same city.
 

Sir Ilpalazzo

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1: I don't think anyone there, except maybe Clover, had already realized that dead people's bracelets work. If I remember right, Junpei doesn't figure it out if you pass by the 9th man's corpse at the start of the game, so I don't think it's a given that everyone knows that.

4. This is directly addressed in Virtue's Last Reward.

5. The answers don't just say that Seven had false memories, they say that was going to be the explanation until Uchikoshi figured that was lame and dropped it from the game. I think Seven figures it would be easier for him to just deny his involvement (since no one involved who might have worked out what he was doing) and go back to his life than it would be to actually join up with Aoi and Akane. Although this is just speculation, I bet he only agreed to cooperate with Akane because he would be able to take down Ace, so I would think he had some kind of explanation for how he was able to arrest him prepared. I agree that Snake being involved is pretty unsatisfying, though.

6. The answers say that Akane is running away because she can't bear to face Junpei after putting him through the Nonary Game. I don't think they're just trying to avoid being captured.

7. I agree, this is sort of dumb. I'm pretty sure it's the original Building Q since there's no indication that Akane ever built a replica, and that Akane being able to get the building in the first place is a contrivance needed to set up the plot in the same way that her controlling a large organization capable of setting up the Nonary Game is.

9. Even if Junpei had tried to keep in touch with her, I don't think it's ridiculous that she would have tried to avoid contact with him after the first Nonary Game.
 

LiveFromKyoto

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But then that brings up the question of why June had the fever attack at all, if the 9th Man's death was part of the desired route. If fever = bad, then why would she have one during the "True" route?

Isn't she just overheating because she's in an incinerator that's heating up in the past?
 

Stumpokapow

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May 21, 2006
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Thanks very much for taking the time to answer. I'm glad I'm not totally crazy and my thinking is OK.

1: I don't think anyone there, except maybe Clover, had already realized that dead people's bracelets work. If I remember right, Junpei doesn't figure it out if you pass by the 9th man's corpse at the start of the game, so I don't think it's a given that everyone knows that.

Okay, but even if you sidestep the 9th Man dead bracelet thing, you're still left with a situation where everyone is standing in the Chapel, they need a 2 bracelet, and Junpei and Clover know that Snake is still alive--but don't know where he is--and that the corpse is not Snake's. At the rate these guys do mental math for the digital roots, and given the propensity for everyone to experiment with the bracelets and doors, it seemed like a major omission in the scene. I find it hard to believe the conclusion would be "welp, we're screwed, let's have an extended riff about sacrifices culminating in Santa throwing his fake hostage scenario" rather than "Okay everybody, let's take ten minutes to try something--I wonder if the dead people bracelets work" or either Clover/Junpei outing Snake's non-death. It just seemed very conspicuous for an otherwise meticulously planned thing. It's not that it's a contradiction in terms, just an apparent lapse of reason for the characters who otherwise seem preternaturally good at doing this stuff.

5. The answers don't just say that Seven had false memories, they say that was going to be the explanation until Uchikoshi figured that was lame and dropped it from the game. I think Seven figures it would be easier for him to just deny his involvement (since no one involved who might have worked out what he was doing) and go back to his life than it would be to actually join up with Aoi and Akane. Although this is just speculation, I bet he only agreed to cooperate with Akane because he would be able to take down Ace, so I would think he had some kind of explanation for how he was able to arrest him prepared. I agree that Snake being involved is pretty unsatisfying, though.

Okay, so we accept that Seven is in on it and that the fake memory thing is bogus. He's a willing participant, and he just lies about the amnesia for the whole game (until... he pretends to re-remember and exposes some details? In one of the endings--sub, maybe--he tells the beginning of the cop story but not the end, so obviously he has discretion in terms of his orders to disclose this information to Junpei, so why doesn't he choose to tell the whole story in that ending rather than just the first half?). Fine. But I can't see any scenario where he is able to turn Ace in, have enough proof to put him on trial and convict him, but not expose his own role in the scenario or result in June/Santa being charged equally.

If he had just shot Ace in the head, his role would make much more sense... or if he had tried to take Ace down at any earlier point in the game. Hell, if he's just there to capture Ace, why take chances? Why even participate in the formal game? Why not just capture Ace and walk out? Was he being threatened to play the specific role?

6. The answers say that Akane is running away because she can't bear to face Junpei after putting him through the Nonary Game. I don't think they're just trying to avoid being captured.

This seems to be a very thin explanation. She owes him an immense debt of gratitude, and so whether or not he hates her, he deserves to see her. Moreover, she knows, based on the mental connection, that he feels the way he does about her DESPITE knowing she is Zero. He forgives her. Plus, running away runs the chance that he does forgive her, but begins to hate her because she ran away. The math doesn't add up--the scenario most likely to lead to the most happiness for everyone is if she at least speaks to him once after the game ends.

9. Even if Junpei had tried to keep in touch with her, I don't think it's ridiculous that she would have tried to avoid contact with him after the first Nonary Game.

Again, it's not impossible, it's just exceedingly thin. They didn't text each other or Facebook or call each other, yet he clearly cared deeply for her--the game asks you to IMMEDIATELY interpret his feelings in a romantic context, right from the first time he saw her. If she shut him out, wouldn't we expect him to make some sort of note of this? "I kept calling her, but she never called me back. I wonder why we lost touch." rather than having a pleasant and benign nostalgia about their earlier friendship?



One other thing:
- The door at the end chapel was a q, not a 9.
- The players fall for this, because a 9 in some fonts looks like a q. It's ambiguous, anyway. It's a witty play on words by Zero. At no point does Zero deceive anyone, justs perhaps misdirects. I mean, Zero could say "look for a door that has a 9" and the incinerator could have said "LOL U SCREWED SON" and the game would have been fine. But it didn't. It said "q". And that's significant. The game makes a huge deal about how Zero is fair, and none of the rules are unfair, and it's all doable, and everything is all OK, and there's no actual lies.
- Snake does not know that the 9 is a q.
- A q in braille looks like this. A "9" in braille uses the same symbol as an I, this. Therefor, Snake, who clearly read the entire letter, would have either had to be lied to (Zero uses the 9 symbol instead of the q symbol) or aware that the door was supposed to be a Q.
- Why does Zero, thus, outright lie to Snake, but only play a misdirecting joke on everyone else? If Zero is willing to lie, why bring up the 9/Q thing at all, rather than just have the final door be a mystery door?
 
Nov 16, 2007
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One other thing:
- The door at the end chapel was a q, not a 9.
- The players fall for this, because a 9 in some fonts looks like a q. It's ambiguous, anyway. It's a witty play on words by Zero. At no point does Zero deceive anyone, justs perhaps misdirects. I mean, Zero could say "look for a door that has a 9" and the incinerator could have said "LOL U SCREWED SON" and the game would have been fine. But it didn't. It said "q". And that's significant. The game makes a huge deal about how Zero is fair, and none of the rules are unfair, and it's all doable, and everything is all OK, and there's no actual lies.
- Snake does not know that the 9 is a q.
- A q in braille looks like this. A "9" in braille uses the same symbol as an I, this. Therefor, Snake, who clearly read the entire letter, would have either had to be lied to (Zero uses the 9 symbol instead of the q symbol) or aware that the door was supposed to be a Q.
- Why does Zero, thus, outright lie to Snake, but only play a misdirecting joke on everyone else? If Zero is willing to lie, why bring up the 9/Q thing at all, rather than just have the final door be a mystery door?

This is sadly just a translation issue. In Japanese, the word for nine is 'kyu' (which of course sounds just like the letter Q), and they hear it over the loudspeaker (this is why they show an image of a loudspeaker when talking about the rules). That gets changed to a letter in the English version (because that doesn't play in English when spoken), but yeah, that does raise this issue. It probably never occurred to Aksys when they were coming up with that workaround.
 

goldsoundz

Member
Aug 2, 2008
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Louisiana
I unlocked the true ending last night, and my mind is still fucked. I'm confused as to how June/Zero existed in both the past and present. And if that wasn't enough of a mind fuck; THAT WAS ALICE AT THE END OF THE GAME? WAT?????

It was also revealed that Junpei's bracelet was not a detonator. So why were the two Cradle employees detonated?

Virtue's Last Reward (3DS) should be arriving later today, but I'm not sure my brain can handle it right now.
 

Hours Left

Member
Jun 28, 2006
33,689
1
0
I unlocked the true ending last night, and my mind is still fucked. I'm confused as to how June/Zero existed in both the past and present. And if that wasn't enough of a mind fuck; THAT WAS ALICE AT THE END OF THE GAME? WAT?????

It was also revealed that Junpei's bracelet was not a detonator. So why were the two Cradle employees detonated?

Virtue's Last Reward (3DS) should be arriving later today, but I'm not sure my brain can handle it right now.
Young Akane didn't die because she connected with Junpei in the morphogenetic field to get the answer to the puzzle, so she needed to make sure that the one version of the future in which Junpei was in the right place at the right time was achieved. Her mind is powerful enough to travel through time and space.

As far as the detonators, only the four Cradle members (Ace, 9th Man, Cap, Man X) had bombs because the whole point of the game was to punish them and save young Akane. The other players just had to think they had bombs inside them because the sense of danger is important in accessing the morpho field, but Akane didn't actually want to put them in any more danger than was necessary.
 

Yuripaw

Banned
Jan 26, 2010
3,703
0
0
I unlocked the true ending last night, and my mind is still fucked. I'm confused as to how June/Zero existed in both the past and present. And if that wasn't enough of a mind fuck; THAT WAS ALICE AT THE END OF THE GAME? WAT?????

It was also revealed that Junpei's bracelet was not a detonator. So why were the two Cradle employees detonated?

Virtue's Last Reward (3DS) should be arriving later today, but I'm not sure my brain can handle it right now.

I just beat it like 10 minutes ago, and I'm feeling the same way. I feel like I kinda understand how Akane/June/Zero was there...I mean, it's like the chicken and the egg. Akane never died, and she was alive in the present the whole time, because Junpei saves her in the past. So she could exist in both the past and present, it's just her past self was communicating with Junpei...I think.

What I'm confused about is where does go at the end in the Incinerator? Does she slip out one of the doors when no one's looking? Are Aoi/Santa and Akane basically fugitives at the end because of what they did with the Nonary Game?

Also yeah...WTF is up with Alice at the end there??? Like seriously game?? you end it with that?? Within the context of the one game, it just feels like it doesn't make any sense!

Edit: I think I understand now why June/Akane was always getting sick over the course of the game during my first playthrough before I got the true end...? Was it because she was at risk of disappearing, and fucking up the timeline completely, because Junpei doesn't save her? Kinda like Marty McFly disappearing in Back to the Future...
 

WrenchNinja

Member
May 29, 2009
30,419
1
825
That is exactly it. She was at risk because of the impending paradox, if Junpei fails to save her before the q door. Its why she was constantly sick. Its also awhy Seven and Snake and Santa remember her dying, because even their memories are in flux. Though of course the game also says that theyre lying to, but time travel is fickle. Its why her body disappears in the submarine ending.
 

The Awesomest

Member
May 21, 2011
4,777
3
0
The sudoku part was the only puzzle I used a walkthrough for in the entire game. I suck at sudoku :p

Same here. No shame!

Man, I have no shame and use walkthroughs regularly. I also have never played sudoku in my life. But Junpei said something like... "I'm gonna solve this... WITH MY OWN BRAIN!" and so I got all pumped up and decided to solve the sudoku puzzle on my own, with my own brain. When I saw the final puzzle, I thought to myself, "Man, the stupid director was playing sudoku and he was like, 'I wonder if I can make a crazy storyline out of sudoku.' "

Also I couldn't solve the very first puzzles for the life of me. I couldn't open those briefcases without consulting a guide. I found the colored triangles and the decoder, but I could only solve half of each combination. Where did the other half of the combination come from?

EDIT they should've realized something was up... the "boat" they were on never rocked!