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A book about KKK-related music found at library raises interesting question

If the library is worried about the book inciting hateful actions or, I suppose being the target of violence itself, then they could make it non-circulating so that it doesn't leave the library. Otherwise it should be kept as is.
 
KHarvey16 said:
You can say that about any singular piece of scholarship or archival material. As long as we erase history one piece at a time it seems you'd be ok with it.
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History repeats, even if you document it. Hell, no matter how much you document it. Look at the great job the US has done in preventing white supremacists from holding the positions of major power in 2017. Hell, shit is spear-headed by people who want history to repeat to begin with.
There should be at least a limit on the number of things that are chosen to be preserved. We don't need 50k Nazi hourglasses to know what the Nazis did. We don't need the millions of Trump hats that were manufactured to be preserved in 2057 to remind us of what Trump did.
 
Kraftwerk said:
Someone found this book at the Berkley library among other books;



People are debating whether something such as this should be even at a public library? Others asking for it to be burned. Some other individuals defending it by stating that no matter how much you hate it, books shouldn't be banned because we need to study them and also have them as a reminder of things that happened.

Reminds of this clip I saw where a Holocaust survivor defended preservation of nazi artifacts instead of destroying them, so that future generations don't forget about what happened and so that it isn't repeated.

What are your thoughts on this matter? Remove it? Burn it? Leave it be?
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What was this person even doing in a library when they don‘t even care about actually reading a page or two to see what the book is about before trying to incite internet outrage?
 
BernardoOne said:
History repeats, even if you document it. Hell, no matter how much you document it. Look at the great job the US has done in preventing white supremacists from holding the positions of major power in 2017. Hell, shit is spear-headed by people who want history to repeat to begin with.
There should be at least a limit on the number of things that are chosen to be preserved. We don't need 50k Nazi hourglasses to know what the Nazis did. We don't need the millions of Trump hats that were manufactured to be preserved in 2057 to remind us of what Trump did.
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What is the world like if we didn't preserve what we preserved? There's nothing to gain by getting rid of these things and so much to gain by keeping them. Did you read the author's note in the book? Don't you want people studying these kinds of movements to have historical context? Isn't it a good idea to allow people who are experts to maintain access to materials for study?
 
BernardoOne said:
History repeats, even if you document it. Hell, no matter how much you document it. Look at the great job the US has done in preventing white supremacists from holding the positions of major power in 2017. Hell, shit is spear-headed by people who want history to repeat to begin with.
There should be at least a limit on the number of things that are chosen to be preserved. We don't need 50k Nazi hourglasses to know what the Nazis did. We don't need the millions of Trump hats that were manufactured to be preserved in 2057 to remind us of what Trump did.
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As a musicologist I'm disgusted by the idea that scholarly research on a hate group's music isn't deemed to be important enough to keep for you. This is a novel and interesting piece of research that adds to our understanding of how the KKK has marketed itself to the American public (successfully I might add). Historical research shouldn't be destroyed because you don't like the people or organizations it is based upon.

nailbombxx said:
I'm actually really interested what it sounds like
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Most of it is pretty typical Tin Pan Alley stuff mixed with things like Battle Hymn of the Republic.
 
book-burning.jpg
 
BernardoOne said:
History repeats, even if you document it. Hell, no matter how much you document it. Look at the great job the US has done in preventing white supremacists from holding the positions of major power in 2017. Hell, shit is spear-headed by people who want history to repeat to begin with.
There should be at least a limit on the number of things that are chosen to be preserved. We don't need 50k Nazi hourglasses to know what the Nazis did. We don't need the millions of Trump hats that were manufactured to be preserved in 2057 to remind us of what Trump did.
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There is a world of difference between choosing to preserve memorabilia and choosing to preserve primary sources and collections of primary sources. I hope you can understand why the latter is so important, but if you don't think so I'd love to explain it to you (I'm serious, not at all sarcastic, BTW).
 
If the library does remove it I hope people make copies from another source and spread it all around the library.
 
books belong in a liberry.

Agnostic said:
If the library does remove it I hope people make copies from another source and spread it all around the library.
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um...no.


but seriously, if hatred can be expressed in musical notes alone that's a book I would research.
 
This feels like an instance of the Streisand effect.

If no one had asked for this book to be burned, it would have stayed in obscurity. Since people are asking for it to be censored, I'm now reading about a book I don't care about and probably never would.
 
Removing, restricting, banning or destroying it is a slippery slope. Don't try to restrict information if you don't want information restricted. Who gets to decide what is appropriate, and what if you don't agree? Suppose Trump decides all of this 'fake news' needs to be banned and burned, or just suppressed and never again available to the public?

Information is power, Those who forget history..., etc. etc.
 
The number of people advocating its removal or destruction is not only absolutely embarrassingly ironic, it's also pathetic because they have decided that without even having read the book, or the book's intro, which openly condemns the KKK and shows the book to be a historical analysis of the movement, not an endorsement.

30yearsofhurt said:
Read what the author has to say.
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This. Anyone who said "remove it", read that note to the reader and please put a palm to your own face.

BernardoOne said:
History repeats, even if you document it. Hell, no matter how much you document it. Look at the great job the US has done in preventing white supremacists from holding the positions of major power in 2017. Hell, shit is spear-headed by people who want history to repeat to begin with.
There should be at least a limit on the number of things that are chosen to be preserved. We don't need 50k Nazi hourglasses to know what the Nazis did. We don't need the millions of Trump hats that were manufactured to be preserved in 2057 to remind us of what Trump did.
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Stahp. You sound like Ted Faro
 
Gordon Shumway said:
🎶Ku Klux Klan ain't nothing to fuck with🎶
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TIL Wu-Tang sampled.

But on topic, I'd keep the book in the library. Destroying it is overreactionist and short sighted.

Humanity needs these things for each generation to learn from, rather than having them bumble into making the same mistakes every hundred years.
 
KHarvey16 said:
What is the world like if we didn't preserve what we preserved? There's nothing to gain by getting rid of these things and so much to gain by keeping them. Did you read the author's note in the book? Don't you want people studying these kinds of movements to have historical context? Isn't it a good idea to allow people who are experts to maintain access to materials for study?
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They can study it all they want. I never said it should be burned or destroyed. Just that no, not having this book isn't going to do anything to make "history repeat".

Morrigan Stark said:
The number of people advocating its removal or destruction is not only absolutely embarrassingly ironic, it's also pathetic because they have decided that without even having read the book, or the book's intro, which openly condemns the KKK and shows the book to be a historical analysis of the movement, not an endorsement.


This. Anyone who said "remove it", read that note to the reader and please put a palm to your own face.


Stahp. You sound like Ted Faro
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So you think every single piece ever made of Nazi memorabilia should be preserved for infinity no matter how mass produced it was? In a world ravaged by climate change why would you keep such useless garbage and not recycle it, for the betterment of society?
 
I read a part via that google link and it seems anti-Klan?

I'll quote the author's introduction::

It is my hope that this book will spur additional research on the methods of indoctrination and public propaganda associated with such hate groups, increasing our vigilance so that we may never again let clever words and pseudo religious and patriotic fervor lull us into complacency about the true nature of hate and introlerance.
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I agree that we shouldn't erase this stuff from history. Being aware of their presence and knowing what they did/produced is key to countering them. And it serves to people as a reminder how many godawful people and hate groups like this exist.
 
BernardoOne said:
So you think every single piece ever made of Nazi memorabilia should be preserved for infinity no matter how mass produced it was? In a world ravaged by climate change why would you keep such useless garbage and not recycle it, for the betterment of society?
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That's an interesting mix of goalpost-moving and strawman you got going there chief
 
I'd question the value of keeping KKK propaganda in a public library. This seems more of a documentation of what they did (specifically the culture that they produced)

It is important to understand hatred, but it should be kept in that academic context.
 
Exodust said:
When did GAF get overrun with the liberal equivalent of the christian mom burning Harry Potter books?
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Not a GAF thing, but this stuff has become more common of late from left leaning areas.

It’s very hard to discuss with nuance here without being considered an alt right sympathizer, though. Groups don’t like self criticism generally though. And this is regardless of ideology.
 
entremet said:
Not a GAF thing, but this stuff has become more common of late from left leaning areas.

It’s very hard to discuss with nuance here without being considered an alt right sympathizer, though. Groups don’t like self criticism generally though. And this is regardless of ideology.
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"Why you guys so interested in defending the KKK tho, hmmm?"
 
It's hilarious to me that the book is a critique of hate group propaganda with examples rather than being any kind of racist manifesto, and it has a foreword to that effect, and the foreword has been posted in this very thread multiple times now, and people are still going "we should destroy this vile hate crime turd novel at once".

Wait, no. Not hilarious. Depressing. That's the word I meant.

We are a failing species.
 
BernardoOne said:
History repeats, even if you document it. Hell, no matter how much you document it. Look at the great job the US has done in preventing white supremacists from holding the positions of major power in 2017. Hell, shit is spear-headed by people who want history to repeat to begin with.
There should be at least a limit on the number of things that are chosen to be preserved. We don't need 50k Nazi hourglasses to know what the Nazis did. We don't need the millions of Trump hats that were manufactured to be preserved in 2057 to remind us of what Trump did.
Click to expand...

We could have a government agency in charge of deciding what needs to be destroyed. Maybe call it the Ministry of Cultural Purity or something similar. Things that are deemed harmful to the herd can simply be purged out of existence for the betterment of society.
 
There's actually a real case for putting that book in the reference collection. For starters, nobody probably wants to read it from cover to cover. On top of that, there's a real risk for someone to jack off on it or burn it as heresy.
 
Tunahead said:
It's hilarious to me that the book is a critique of hate group propaganda with examples rather than being any kind of racist manifesto, and it has a foreword to that effect, and the foreword has been posted in this very thread multiple times now, and people are still going "we should destroy this vile hate crime turd novel at once".

Wait, no. Not hilarious. Depressing. That's the word I meant.

We are a failing species.
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To be fair, the OP and title are pretty poor. I PMed a mod about it, but no response yet.
 
Books like this of course should be kept in those university libraries with floors of books that no one ever reads. They are used for research and by scholars. My university had all sorts of books you would never find at your local public library. This book should not be kept at a public library though.
 
Widdle Puppy said:
Books like this of course should be kept in those university libraries with floors of books that no one ever reads. They are used for research and by scholars. My university had all sorts of books you would never find at your local public library. This book should not be kept at a public library though.
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Public libraries and university libraries are both just libraries. The idea that universities should have access to research materials that are kept from the general public is elitist and self defeating. You are basically arguing for the Ivory tower.
 
It should be in the library and accessible to any university student who wishes to pick it up. It's a modern history book at a major university.
 
Widdle Puppy said:
Books like this of course should be kept in those university libraries with floors of books that no one ever reads. They are used for research and by scholars. My university had all sorts of books you would never find at your local public library. This book should not be kept at a public library though.
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It's not a fucking hate book holy shit

BernardoOne said:
Since I always said that this book should be available for studies and scholars, how is it goalpost moving at all?
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You started talking about mass-produced nazi memorabilia for some unfathomable reason?

Also, this book isn't KKK propaganda at all. Just because it has KKK on the title doesn't mean it should have any kind of special consideration on its availability and people saying otherwise are honestly fucking embarrassing.
 
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