Jack The Nipper
Banned
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A call for empathy please be nice to us
- Thread starter Lime
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nkarafo
Member
I got banned for a similar reason as well. More specifically for not agreeing with everyone about Anita in a thread about her (don't remember the exact case). And yes i wasn't rude or anything close to that.
RastaMentality
Banned
lolllllll
WhiskeyKnight
Member
Agreed, issues of diversity and representation are totally valid topics and important to discuss. No perspectives should be shut down.
But do you understand the other side of the coin? Up until recently, GAF's draconian moderation routinely shut down discourse about conservative ideas.
Banning members based solely on their ideology -- left or right -- has got to stop.
cubicle47b
Member
Sadly, yes.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You still misunderstand many of these posters' points. Nobody is saying discussing that was a bad thing, or shouldn't exist, it was how absolutely toxic and hostile the discussions got where users would openly call others sexist/racist on silly assumptions and witch hunt them to a ban simply based on a disagreement. At the very least, thats how I take it. There's nothing wrong with discussing diversity in games. The problem is, GAF didn't do this. Instead, they made really harsh, broad statements and insults to people who didn't see eye-to-eye on an issue, and in general overreacted to conflicting opinions.
I'm not sure what you may have said, maybe you were kind and respectful to others, but some more notorious posters certainly weren't, and received no bans or repercussions or anything. So people don't want to see that shit return.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
No no no. I'm fine if people disagree with my opinions. In fact, I enjoy talking to people I don't agree with. I find if you engage with people you don't agree with, you might just learn something!
The problem is I was often BANNED for my opinions. Which means I just couldn't engage. It's totally different.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Agreed, and it is possible to discuss those topics objectively without hectoring people who disagree with you.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Listen up you:
Just because you are an individual doesn't mean your beliefs are not carried by others. Decent people have already discussed your beliefs without you being present and decided, "hey, these aren't cool or good for people" and decided to curb them. You having your time to defend your beliefs is pointless when the conversation was had without you. Let's use game terms since y'all seem so keen on just discussing video games: you enter a dark souls thread and ask "how do I get to this bonfire?" Let it be known you are the 100th person asking that. Read the thread.
Understand that. Maybe you will grow up from this experience or you will wallow in bitterness because decent people decided to not give you time to defend your bannable views.
Metalingus5150
Member
Just because you're polite about your shitty views, does not make them any less shitty.
Jaguar Victory
Member
Moondrop, not like this.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Uh, they agree for empathy but go, "Hey, just because someone voted for Trump doesn't make them bad" or "Just because they celebrate Zwarte Piet doesn't make them racist".
Like, they all have the info at their fingertips but parrot these stupid ass talking points.
The labels are justified.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Yes, regularly testing your ideas against people who disagree sharpens your own arguments. Technology is taking us in the opposite direction.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
I can see the inclusive spirit of this thread has been totally lost on you friend. Why do you have such a grudge against me? All I'm every arguing for is that if you conduct yourself in a courteous manner and refrain from hate you shouldn't be banned for having the "wrong" opinion on something. Why is that so objectionable?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
This is some stupid shit.
There's no need to argue whether being a bigot is good or bad.
It's not hate to call you what are you actually are.
Got a problem with that? Don't be that guy.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Holy shit, Evilore. You gotta check out your new audience. They actually want you to not ban them for having the wrong opinion. These guys really are trying hard to pry open that door where they can say whatever the fuck they want without repercussion.
This attempt to pretend that conservative views are not inherently racist or sexist has got to stop.
Racism and sexism do not have any inherent value. There is no value in allowing people to perpetuate racist and sexist ideas.
If you want to "discuss" how bullshit skimpy outfits on female characters for straight-male "fanservice" are somehow a right that belongs in all video games despite how marginalizing they are to female fans, you can do that pretty much anywhere else. If you want to "discuss" how black characters are "historically inaccurate" in medieval fantasy settings, you can do that pretty much anywhere else.
These are not ideas worth defending. Any vitriol directed at people defending such ideas were 100% warranted. No one needs to discuss these ideas with people because they are, at a foundational level, bad ideas that need no defending.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
You can't have or speak your opinion without people feeling their idea is right and yours is wrong or "bad"
That is just how it looks and that is fine that a person has their own idea, everyone has their own idea after all. But getting banned for it etc needs to change.
That is just how it looks and that is fine that a person has their own idea, everyone has their own idea after all. But getting banned for it etc needs to change.
Mahadev
Member
That is your opinion and something that must be discussed, not enforced. Do you understand that some of you guys are acting like religious fundamentalists? You have a dogma that you think is the ultimate truth so you're not even willing to discuss it, you demand that dogma to be shared by everyone else.
What are these conservative ideas that were being shut down? Unless it was a drive by post that was completely idiotic and indefensible, there would be discourse and discussion.
^ this.
Jaguar Victory
Member
I get that some people have shitty opinions, and I don't think stupid shit needs to have it's own soapbox (flat earthers, white supremacists, and climate change deniers) but for the more grayer issues that require nuance I think articulation beats slander.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Holy shit. Why can't you guys just accept your beliefs are inherently bigoted?
Why do you guys continuously want to discuss these issues?
Why can't y'all actually take steps after having the billionth fucking discussion?
Well, yeah, and you were never banned for that unless you pushed the gray area envelope and started espousing bigoted perspectives as if they're legit.
These gamer gaters know what they're doing: try to create a dialogue where supporting or defending bigoted views are OK because it's just a "discussion".
Discussion for these folks is key word for "let's keep reinforcing and conditioning other people who come across our text to believe this shit is normal".
Mahadev
Member
People made drive by posts because if the more they posted the more likely it was for a mod to find an excuse to ban them.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
See why do my views automatically have to be "shitty"? You don't even know what my views are! Members of the forum should be able to politely disagree on something without one party being called "shitty." For example, I disagree with most conservatives about gun control. But I don't dismiss their opinions as "shitty," I try my best to treat them as valid and engage them meaningfully.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Who cares how people label your views? Why are you so hung up on shitty?
Why are you more upset about a truthful label rather than, let's say, people being bigoted or people supporting the right-wing propaganda machine the NRA?
We get your game. You won't convince any decent person with your "let's engage with hate" toxic shit.
But what were these conservative ideas that had to be drive by posts? How indefensible of a post must it be that the poster can't defend them and has to run off and cry foul that their view is not being taken seriously?
They're cowards.
Lionel Richie
Member
Not difficult, just really obnoxious especially considering the lack of freedom to, you know, possibly disagree with that. Just because you really believe it in your heart that something is true, that doesn't make it so and if you can't deal with anyone disagreeing with you then it might be healthier to take a few step backs and reevaluate stuff. Trying to hammer your point home with tu quoque unfunny sarcasm in full moral grandstanding mode doesn't change that.
Elfstar
Member
Why can't you act like a grown up adult without crying whenever someone has a slightly different opinion than yours?
Why can't you accept that different opinions than yours are not inerenthly wrong by any means just because the crazy little bubble that you've been secluded in for years said so?
WhiskeyKnight
Member
Great -- I happen to agree with you on skimpy outfits and racial representation in fantasy games. But I will never understand why you want the other side outright banned. If you have better ideas, than let them win the day! The racists and sexists will hopefully retreat to 4chan or wherever. But when you outright suppress the other side, that's when you start alienating people.
cubicle47b
Member
Sure, it was probably going to be an unpopular opinion because people with dissenting opinions were constantly purged. When someone would post a dissenting opinion it would get quoted and mocked for two pages, a mod would notice, and they'd get banned. Immediate outcasts. There was little room for exploring ideas. You don't have to agree with them to be against that type of authoritarian moderation.
And these opinions are?
Damn you're really good in here to skirt over what these opinions were...
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Oh my god.
OH MY GOD.
Are you really defending bigotry?
Holy shit.
NeoGAF went to the shitters faster than a port-o-potty being thrown in a dump.
NuGAF is all about meeting in the middle and having discussions.
You can tell the old mod staff took all the backbones.
Metalingus5150
Member
Lol there are wrong opinions.
Like "I don't believe gays have the right to marry" or "Immigrants are diluting the gene pool" or "Trans women aren't real women" just to have a few examples.
Like "I don't believe gays have the right to marry" or "Immigrants are diluting the gene pool" or "Trans women aren't real women" just to have a few examples.
As gaming grew and spread out to reach more people, politics was bound to seep in. That people either willingly deny this or think that gaming can elevate itself above such criticism purely on the basis that it's meant to be escapism or entertainment is absurd to me.
It may not affect you but it does affect others, and their experiences and voices shouldn't be minimized just because you want to turn off your brain and mash buttons. I'll never understand why people wish to close themselves off to that. And that's why I worry about the new direction the forum is taking.
It may not affect you but it does affect others, and their experiences and voices shouldn't be minimized just because you want to turn off your brain and mash buttons. I'll never understand why people wish to close themselves off to that. And that's why I worry about the new direction the forum is taking.
Give the mod a break, it's not easy moderating and maintaining the forum alone.
Politics was always there.
People can act like they didn't care but it always was there.
From Wolfenstein 3D to Tetris, it was always there.
Because you don't care about it doesn't mean it's not there.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It's like they don't even respect women and minorities enough to let them have their own thread.
Glass Joe is still here after this shit:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1454989
I would give them a break but it's pretty clear the direction NeoGAF is going.
Razorback
Member
Do you plan on staying in NeoGAF or will you move to the new place?
Jack The Nipper
Banned
I am not sure where I defend people who are racist or against others, that idea is crazy and I take up for my asian friends all the time agianst people telling them to "get out of my country" and all sorts of stuff.
If you don't know people, stop acting like you do. Just because a person doesn't think EVERY person that supports something is evil doesn't mean that person is a bigot or racist in any manner.
If you don't know people, stop acting like you do. Just because a person doesn't think EVERY person that supports something is evil doesn't mean that person is a bigot or racist in any manner.
Velius
Banned
Lime, your post resonates with me greatly.
Looking at some of these posts it would appear your reputation precedes you but that has nothing to do with me. Even if we would say for the sake of argument that you have in the past been cruel to others, it doesn't matter. Nobody deserves to be treated with hostility.
Even though I am politically squarely in the middle, I like to think that most people are at least as decent as I am. That's not necessarily saying much but I can assure you that I have no intention of hurting, belittling or menacing you in any manner.
I love video games. I love to talk about video games. And while I usually prefer to avoid subjects that transcend into politically charged issues, I realize it is almost impossible to divorce ourselves from some of the world's realities. I honestly, honestly believe that if you hold yourself and convey yourself in the fashion in which you have in this thread, you have nothing to worry about.
Anyone who would try to do you harm, verbal or otherwise, given your stance here and now, would be committing an act of immorality as far as I'm concerned.
Looking at some of these posts it would appear your reputation precedes you but that has nothing to do with me. Even if we would say for the sake of argument that you have in the past been cruel to others, it doesn't matter. Nobody deserves to be treated with hostility.
Even though I am politically squarely in the middle, I like to think that most people are at least as decent as I am. That's not necessarily saying much but I can assure you that I have no intention of hurting, belittling or menacing you in any manner.
I love video games. I love to talk about video games. And while I usually prefer to avoid subjects that transcend into politically charged issues, I realize it is almost impossible to divorce ourselves from some of the world's realities. I honestly, honestly believe that if you hold yourself and convey yourself in the fashion in which you have in this thread, you have nothing to worry about.
Anyone who would try to do you harm, verbal or otherwise, given your stance here and now, would be committing an act of immorality as far as I'm concerned.
Elfstar
Member
Dude, chill out and thake a breath.
This is what everyone is talking about. The "OMG EVERYONE WHO DARES TO CHALLENGE ME IS A BIGOT" shit.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
To anyone replying to him this is how he replied to my PM asking him nicely and discussing with him simply.
Subpar Spatula
I told him I didn't want to talk to him cause he can't simply talk about things without throwing labels at people, that is his reply. So, no need for me to reply to such a childish person that throws out false names and ideas.
I will always agree that you can treat people nicely even if you disagree with their ideas, I'll never change that.
Subpar Spatula
I told him I didn't want to talk to him cause he can't simply talk about things without throwing labels at people, that is his reply. So, no need for me to reply to such a childish person that throws out false names and ideas.
I will always agree that you can treat people nicely even if you disagree with their ideas, I'll never change that.
RastaMentality
Banned
Then go ahead and tell us what different opinions you're talking about.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Which opinions? Because most "opinions" that got shat on were thinly veiled bigotry or obvious signs of ignorance or disdain for diversity.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
'cause we know what y'all are doing. It's fun to call out your shit.
You're not going to actually say what views should be defending cause you know contextually it would be fine in the old OT if you did it properly.
But you'll skirt around any kind of detail and retreat to a blanket "banned for different opinion" statements as if we don't know what y'all mean.
Velius
Banned
Do you realize that this statement is a glaring example of bigotry?
Razorback
Member
There's nothing written in the fabric of the universe that makes those statements objectively true.
If you believe in them and think the world would be a better place if more people believed in them then you must always engage others with persuasive arguments. You want more people on your side, don't you? Making a dogma out of those beliefs makes those who haven't been convinced yet move further in the opposite direction.
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