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A crumbling tower: Sony lays siege to the 360's weak spots
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
soldat7 said:
Also, there's a reason MS' exclusives are almost always focused on a significant and unique online experience. Those are Live's selling points, to me at least. I never really understood the argument "Multiplatform online play is free on PS3 so no one will pay for Live." Sure, but if I have to pay $5 a month extra for the following multiplayer experiences:
Fable II
Castle Crashers
Halo 3
Forza 2
Banjo
and cetera
Seems fair to me.
Death_Born
Banned
Gbeav said:
You can buy 13 month's worth of Live for $2 a month on Amazon. That's less than the price of a video game for a year, plus all those free trials floating around. Right, paying for Live is antiquated, but it isn't highway robbery either. Where do you think MS gets the money to fix all the RROD's?:lol
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
This is a good point but for how long? I know more people without X360s or PS3s that have yet to make a decision for this generation or as in my case, have given up on Live and X360 due to repeated hardware issues.soldat7 said:
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
the biggest factor right now (at least for me and i suspect for others) is you are going to buy the version your friends are going to buy.
i dunno - in a gen where you pretty much need a HD tv and a $400 machine (even more if you bought in at launch), an average of $60 a game , then i find the repulsion to sub $5 a month a little forced.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
theBishop said:
It's really funny how you basically post incessantly about sales figures even though you claim not to care about them.
TheRagnCajun said:
I'm glad he would. God of War is a huge franchise, sure, but it's closer to the Jak/R&C mid-level--2-4 million rather than say 5-10 million. I'm not dismissing GoW by any means, but bigger franchises have come and gone on the PS3 so far.
In the US, GoW 1 sold less than Jak and Daxter: Precursor Legacy but more than Jak 2 or 3 and less than half of what GT3 sold and 500k less than what GT4 sold. My figures (accurate to as of when NPD killed leaks; all publicly available data from GAF and elsewhere, no private source) have GoW somewhere from the 30th to 40th best-selling title in the US on PS2.
GoW2 did around 1 million between the first two months of sales and has probably outsold the first in the long term, although I don't have much data on that one.
Relaxed Muscle said:Yeah, Nintendo who is winning a lot of money with his actual strategy will "eventually" (for some unknow reasons) change it, to play the same game as Microsoft....
And why the fuck is the Microsoft strategy the correct one? If is losing in every fucking territory and with the actual losses of a lot of third partys who follows the HD development
My point was that "experts" write these articles time and again taking both sides of the console arguments. But what is the real point? We have 3 consoles available to us consumers. Each does the job nicely, each has content worth playing, and it seems as if each company is progressing towards their goal. My feeling, it is a "Win,win, win" situation.
And the Live cost is very reasonable to me. If I use Live to play a game instead of renting a movie just once a month, that is the $5 cost.
Mamesj said:
Nobody is waiting for either. We are simply discussing how one has nowhere to go but up, and the other one down.
Stumpokapow said:
Late 2009 with the next Halo? you are proving my point.
Stumpokapow said:
... and it falls back to exclusives and features. The article points out that with this being said, the PS3 is starting to look more lucrative than the 360.
Stumpokapow said:
For those PS2 gamers that don't even own an HDTV yet (I believe there are quite a few) do you think they will get a stand-alone, when they can pay $50-$100 more for one of the best players out there? This will remain true for 2008 and 2009.
God of War, GT5, Team ICO for the hardcore, etc etc are still left. You can't say the same for MS, and they don't even seem to be trying much in terms of new franchises.
Stumpokapow said:
I'm not equating the X360 with the PS2, and you shouldn't either. At least for me, the Xbox was a bit irrelevant thanks to the PC. I already own a 360, but it is looking eerily similar to the Xbox1.
Stumpokapow said:
Exactly. When the perception is you are lacking the games, drop your price.
Stumpokapow said:
I try to stay out of them because I think the whole phenomena is incredibly stupid. Unfortunately, Sales-Age is where 80% of the GAF discussion happens when NPD or MediaCreate or Pachter has a new press release.
No other medium's fanbase is so preoccupied with sales. I've never seen a music discussion forum wring their hands over sales of Portisheads' latest album.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Bulla564 said:
I think you mean "if" not "how".
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The repulsion is more of a cumulative effect when you add the risk some perceive now with investing in an X360. The PR damage for RROD has not been undone and the horror stories that are casually discussed by the clerks at stores at Best Buy about customers who are on their 3rd, 4th, 5th system are not going away.DCharlie said:
I agree that $60 doesn't seem like a lot when you consider the overall price of admission, but for $459.98, a person can buy a PS3 and Madden 09 right now and take it home and play it online. For $329.98 a person can buy an arcade unit and Madden 09, but add to that, $49.99, and you are up to $379.98. Cheaper, but upon further review, you might want a hard drive or perhaps wireless support for your router. If you buy the new 60GB X360, Madden, and Live, you are at $459.97. Now, if the clerk has told you about the probems people have had with X360 and this puts a little doubt in your head, and you add to that tally the price of a wireless adapter and the annual renewal fee of Live, and then you consider you get Blu-ray on PS3, the value at point-of-sale goes up significantly for PS3. This is where a lot of people who have yet to buy a PS3 or an X360 are right now. There are plenty of groups of friends out there who are trying to decide which system to go with and at least among my small circle, the PS3 is the current leader.
[Nintex] said:
I don't think it's remotely proven. In fact, I don't expect LBP to be nearly the huge casual seller as many seem to think. My girlfriend was entirely unimpressed -- in fact, it appeared utterly daunting to her. She's fallen in love with Hot Shots Golf and SingStar though.
I also disagree with Sackboy's branding being that impressive. Again, this has been completely limited to hardcore gamers.
Gizmo_Monkey
Banned
That article is so biased.
Nowhere does it state that developers have problems making games on PS3 where the 360 versions look and play better. Look at the Valve fiasco and countless others games with framerate problems exclusive to the ps3 version. GRiD, Assassin's Creed.
Also the PS3 is supposed to be a technically superior console to the 360 but whats the point when all the games are multiplatform or ports to PS3 meaning the graphics have to be scaled back to the lowest common denominator? Sure theres games like MGS4 which I highly doubt would look as good as that on 360 but thats just a marginal percentage of total games. Most are multiplatform. So this "superior" console Sony put money into was it really worth investing all the time, money and resources when most games would have to be forced to look virtually identical and in some cases worse? (Orange Box). Even games that came out on PS3 exclusively at first like Unreal look easily as good on their 360 version what happened to the power of the Cell there?
The Cell processor is a very powerful piece of hardware but its almost two years since the release of the console and people keep saying wait and see but this is bullshit. Majority of games are multiplatform so Cell or no Cell it doesn't matter.
Nowhere does it state that developers have problems making games on PS3 where the 360 versions look and play better. Look at the Valve fiasco and countless others games with framerate problems exclusive to the ps3 version. GRiD, Assassin's Creed.
Also the PS3 is supposed to be a technically superior console to the 360 but whats the point when all the games are multiplatform or ports to PS3 meaning the graphics have to be scaled back to the lowest common denominator? Sure theres games like MGS4 which I highly doubt would look as good as that on 360 but thats just a marginal percentage of total games. Most are multiplatform. So this "superior" console Sony put money into was it really worth investing all the time, money and resources when most games would have to be forced to look virtually identical and in some cases worse? (Orange Box). Even games that came out on PS3 exclusively at first like Unreal look easily as good on their 360 version what happened to the power of the Cell there?
The Cell processor is a very powerful piece of hardware but its almost two years since the release of the console and people keep saying wait and see but this is bullshit. Majority of games are multiplatform so Cell or no Cell it doesn't matter.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Bulla564 said:
No. Your point was that the 360 has passed its peak and is slowing down. My point is that ALL SYSTEMS peak around years 3-4.
Yeah, I'd agree with those dates. I just don't think that's a whole lot of leverage and past that point it'll be none at all. I also think it's incredibly wrong to assume a) that PS2 owners will get HDTVs during this period or b) that people buying HDTVs will necessarily jump in on Blu-Ray immediately.
It's true that MSFT pales in terms of dev manpower versus Sony or Nintendo, but relative to their overall smaller size, they've launched a healthy mix of new franchises just like Sony has. Sony has Resistance and Uncharted as their two standout new franchises this gen; MSFT has Gears, Mass Effect (notwithstanding EA acquisition issues), Viva Pinata. I'm not trying to minimize Sony here, I'm saying you're trying to minimize MSFT.
On an ongoing basis, who knows what'll come out next year. Alan Wake is an example of an MSFT new franchise that we know about, but for the most part MS has nothing announced past 2H2008 and Sony nothing past 1H2009.
Remember when around March people were saying "What does MS have for the back half of this year? Nothing! They're closing up shop!" and now suddenly the 360 has a flood of 1st party or exclusive 3rd party RPGs (all mid-tier in terms of sales, obviously), Gears 2, a two-pack of 39.99 priced titles from Rare, etc. I don't think saying "a company has nothing scheduled in the distant future" is the same as saying "a company has nothing in development for the future".
And Team ICO? Shadow of the Colossus is at around 750k in the US, Ico is <200k. Great, outstanding games, but not anything even relevant in terms of an outlook kind of thing. Lost Odyssey outsold ICO. Is MSFT supposed to be in a good position because they've still got Cry On to rock the world with?
Well I can see how an individual person might feel like that, but in terms of looking at it from a market perspective which this article pretends to do, the PC is a non-issue. If anything, the similarities in software and approach between PC/XBX and PC/X360 have spurred a shift of PC-centric gamers and game genres to the console world, rather than a lessened momentum by the Xbox.
Like I said, I'm not minimizing or arguing against Sony here, but the article basically turns a blind eye to all roadblocks in Sony's path, and then claims the absolute worst case scenario for all roadblocks in Microsoft's path, and that's what you're doing here as well in terms of your outlook on Sony and MSFT's software future and hardware lifespans.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Gizmo_Monkey said:
Madden 09 on PS3 along with NCAA and several of the new EA Sports titles match the X360 version. Burnout Paradise on PS3 is another. GTA IV as well. Battlefield:Bad Company. I think it is safe to say that multiplatform development is getting better.
ScrabbleBanshee
Member
Gizmo_Monkey said:
The fact that Uncharted exists gives me hope in the "where's the power" dept. more than anything.
freethought
Member
theBishop said:
Portishead are unlikely to release an album that's only playable on an iPod though.
I do agree that the endless sales discussion is quite tiring but it is somewhat relevant to fans of particular genres or franchises and, unfortunately, systems.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I'm not sure this particular bus ever had wheels.Duke Togo said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
theBishop said:
You don't try to stay out of them. You're in every thread related to the subject, crying about how you hate the fact that people have an interest in something you don't. If you don't like that parts of GAF is sales-focused, stay off of GAF instead of staying on GAF and continuing to whine about how much you hate the thread you chose to read.
Really? Seriously, industry discussion in the music industry is even more sales-focused. Figures are widely available, widely discussed. There are national and international charts and figures for every single week in every country. People discuss what's on the radio, single sales, album sales, there are deluxe editions just like video games. There are digital download charts. Have you seriously missed all this?
And no other medium? Theatrical film, Books, DVD rentals, Broadway, Hockey.
You missed the fact that people have been talking about the Dark Knight's massive numbers this year? We have a weekly damn box office figures thread in the OT dedicated to discussion movie figures. Sales figures are widely reported and discussed amongst fans of the industries in question. If you don't like that, avoid it and stop complaining.
NarcissisticJay
Member
theBishop said:
lol.... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
So...2 pricedrops in 1 year is better than 2 pricedrops in 3 years? And said pricedrops happened because of the perception of a lack of games? Honestly, if it had not been for the PS brand I would have been scared to purchase a PS3 in its first year because of the swift price cuts. As a matter of fact I was when I saw the system I purchased for $600 dropped to $400 so quickly.Bulla564 said:
theBishop said:
You mean the whole 20k momentum of last month that would take over 20 years to surpass at that level. The momentum MGS4 built up dropped like a rock last month. That lead hasn't gone anywhere, in fact the 360 has actually grown it's base in the US more than the PS3 since Nov 07.
Skiptastic
Member
McLovin said:
What the hell is in his hand in yours? Looks like a cupcake or something. I do like the avatar though.
Keyser Soze said:
Fuck yes, is that Kylie?
This article was shit, btw. Just thought I'd mention that. Everyone else is bringing up the stuff I would say, so yeah, no need to repeat.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
ArsTechnica thinks that LittleBigPlanet will be a system seller. I don't know about that, G...
Dr_Cogent said:
Blame the devs. Online guidelines from Microsoft are severe. The ones from Sony aren't. While Sony could be asking for a minimum quality in the voice transfert, it should be the develloper that care about it's customer before anyone else imo.
So the truth about online on PS3 = Will be great when it's from great devs and will be shit when it's from shit dev.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Any jokes regarding massive damage yet? Come now GAF!
Segata Sanshiro
Member
There have been at least two.LiquidMetal14 said:
freethought said:
I'd rather see a free-fire zone for system wars issues that actually matter to gamers (exclusives, differences in multiplatforms, hardware, online experience, etc) than 80 pages of thinly veiled stealth trolling over a topic that only actually matters to shareholders.
I know some people claim to be interested in it, but there has to be a better outlet for all these budding amateur financial analysts than a videogame messageboard.
The notion that the best selling platform gets the best games (in my opinion) has been completely shot to hell this generation.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
theBishop said:
Well there's a better outlet for meaningless whining about the hobbies of others than a videogame messageboard, but given that you're still doing it I'm guessing you don't go back to high school for another month or so.
YOU POST MORE ABOUT SALES THAN MOST GAFFERS.
KernelPanic
Member
I'd say PS3 has rebounded quite well considering everyone assumed the system was D)A after the $599 launch and its performance for most of 2007.
They wont surpass 360 or Wii in userbase or software sales but I'd say the system has carved out a nice niche for itself, which is more than some people expected.
They wont surpass 360 or Wii in userbase or software sales but I'd say the system has carved out a nice niche for itself, which is more than some people expected.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
You know, I don't like 800 threads about MGS4 up to and including "WHAT CAR DO YOU THINK SNAKE WOULD DRIVE", but I just... y'know, go to the many other threads that are pertinent to my interests. You could/should try it, if you ever develop the self-discipline.theBishop said:
Ajemsuhgao
Member
jmdajr said:
Oh god :lol
It looks so defeated and sad.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
To perhaps take things in a different direction, what is Microsoft doing to correct some of the issues it has and what are they NOT doing that they should be?
1. Gears of War 2 is certainly their strongest weapon this Fall. Perhaps a full-year subscription to Xbox-Live could be included in the collector's edition or perhaps they can offer a discount on Live to those who buy it.
2. Do more to promote Xbox Live Arcade on TV. I don't recall ever seeing an ad that promotes Live Arcade on TV.
3. System Re-Design. I think the RROD issue still has not been fully addressed. With their consistently poor customer service at the repair center, MS needs to drastically change their RROD recovery strategy. A redesign would offer them a chance to talk about better cooling, improved this, improved that. It would help dispel some of the distaste amongst the retailers and would give their clerks something to promote.
1. Gears of War 2 is certainly their strongest weapon this Fall. Perhaps a full-year subscription to Xbox-Live could be included in the collector's edition or perhaps they can offer a discount on Live to those who buy it.
2. Do more to promote Xbox Live Arcade on TV. I don't recall ever seeing an ad that promotes Live Arcade on TV.
3. System Re-Design. I think the RROD issue still has not been fully addressed. With their consistently poor customer service at the repair center, MS needs to drastically change their RROD recovery strategy. A redesign would offer them a chance to talk about better cooling, improved this, improved that. It would help dispel some of the distaste amongst the retailers and would give their clerks something to promote.
Jack Scofield said:The Dark Knight has been in theaters for over a month. Why haven't you watched it already if you're so concerned with "spoilers?"
EDIT: Just in case you misinterpret this post, I don't mean to sound inflammatory. I'm simply curious.
You think everyone runs out to the theater to see this stuff? Why do you think so many people pay for home theater gear? I'd rather see it on blu-ray.
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Wow what a turn around for Ars Technica. They were some of biggest producers of anti-PS3 articles on the web.
While most of the points on the article, are valid they are exaggerated. The 360's biggest image problem is that it may have passed the sales gap opportunity. Losing in every territory is definitely going to start taking its toll as the media begin to latch on not on LTD numbers but on monthly ones.
While most of the points on the article, are valid they are exaggerated. The 360's biggest image problem is that it may have passed the sales gap opportunity. Losing in every territory is definitely going to start taking its toll as the media begin to latch on not on LTD numbers but on monthly ones.
Listen to man MSDenogginizerOS said: