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A glimpse of Sony Japan Studio’s future under Allan Becker

Typical JRPG's don't sell anymore though....a PS3 exclusive JRPG in this day and age would fail. I think the genre died long time ago on the PS2 or PSX. Final Fantasy is the only JRPG that sells now.


The original makers of Arc The Lad 1 and 2 (maybe 3) G-Craft was absorbed into Square if I'm not mistaken (since they made Front Mission games also). I do not think Media Vision has the staff/high end programmers for an HD graphic engine either.



I can tell you why we haven't really easily.
-Rogue Galaxy was created to be the NEXT big RPG to rival Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. That was the goal of Level 5/SCEJ. It didn't exactly do well.

-Wild Arms sold well on PS1, continued seeing its sales go down on PS2 and XF sold really bad.

-Legaia 2 did not sell good compared to 1.

-PoPoLoCrois sales declined on PS2 and the ports on PSP barely sold.

-The newer Arc The Lad games on PS2 developed by Cattle Call bombed.

-Dark Cloud 2 did not sell anywhere near as much as the first one.

-Pretty much every new JRPG SCEJ published for PS2 all bombed (Okage The Shadow King, Dual Hearts, Tsunganai(sp), etc.).

-Pretty much every new JRPG SCEJ published for PSP bombed (Coded Soul, Brave Story, Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner, Blade Dancer, Jeanne D'Arc, etc.)

After getting burned out many types making a JRPG, this is why SCEJ does not make many of them internally. And don't forget that while WKC sold decently on PS3, its sequel sold worse and the PSP version really sold bad.

Believe me, I like the genre but I understand why they are cautious, since many of them require a higher budget and lots of staff.

Legend of Dragoon team is pretty much all gone working elsewhere around Japan.


Mistwalker would never work for Sony.

yea this post!! Mistwalker isn't worth it IMO...all they made were a Dragon Quest clone and a FF clone.
 
Vita OS/firmware is created by Software Division #2; sounds like a unit outside Sony's studio outfit. They were interviewed by WatchImpress before. Should be able to find the translated summary in andriasang.

I couldn't find it, do you happen to have a link?

The original makers of Arc The Lad 1 and 2 (maybe 3) G-Craft was absorbed into Square if I'm not mistaken (since they made Front Mission games also). I do not think Media Vision has the staff/high end programmers for an HD graphic engine either.



I can tell you why we haven't really easily.
-Rogue Galaxy was created to be the NEXT big RPG to rival Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. That was the goal of Level 5/SCEJ. It didn't exactly do well.

-Wild Arms sold well on PS1, continued seeing its sales go down on PS2 and XF sold really bad.

-Legaia 2 did not sell good compared to 1.

-PoPoLoCrois sales declined on PS2 and the ports on PSP barely sold.

-The newer Arc The Lad games on PS2 developed by Cattle Call bombed.

-Dark Cloud 2 did not sell anywhere near as much as the first one.

-Pretty much every new JRPG SCEJ published for PS2 all bombed (Okage The Shadow King, Dual Hearts, Tsunganai(sp), etc.).

-Pretty much every new JRPG SCEJ published for PSP bombed (Coded Soul, Brave Story, Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner, Blade Dancer, Jeanne D'Arc, etc.)

After getting burned out many types making a JRPG, this is why SCEJ does not make many of them internally. And don't forget that while WKC sold decently on PS3, its sequel sold worse and the PSP version really sold bad.

Believe me, I like the genre but I understand why they are cautious, since many of them require a higher budget and lots of staff.

Legend of Dragoon team is pretty much all gone working elsewhere around Japan.


Mistwalker would never work for Sony.

I remember they tried to set up DC to rival Zelda and LoD to rival FF, but never knew that they tried to set up Rogue Galaxy to rival DQ. Do you have a source?

I can also say that WKC2 and WKC PSP probably bombed due to how bad the games were. WKC was pretty bad but it had hype behind it. Regardless of past failures, Sony still needs a big franchise or two for the Japanese market.
 
I remember they tried to set up DC to rival Zelda and LoD to rival FF, but never knew that they tried to set up Rogue Galaxy to rival DQ. Do you have a source?

I can also say that WKC2 and WKC PSP probably bombed due to how bad the games were. WKC was pretty bad but it had hype behind it. Regardless of past failures, Sony still needs a big franchise or two for the Japanese market.
I mostly meant a million seller RPG to compete on the level of FF/DQ with multiple installments, they were hoping for that. The exact article I wanted is hard to find (this was back in 2005), but I could at least bring up this article with Hino: http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2005/1872.html
 
No. Japan studio has over 400 people, and yet for this gen they made almost nothing. NOTHING.

We haven't seen a single JRPG for PS3 made by Japan Studio.

We haven't seen a single NOTABLE game made by Japan studio this gen.

It's been almost 7 years since this gen started and this should be nothing but an embarrassment for Sony.

Remember, Gravity Rush took 5 years to complete. Yes it didn't have a lot of people working on it but when a gaming company needs to make almost yearly games to push the sales and hardware, this is almost inexcusable.

a) Didn't we just discuss that 400 number? I think it's bullshit.
b) Japan Studio didn't make a single JRPG for the PS2 either, who gives a shit? JRPGs are not a stock necessity of Japanese studios and it's much easier to get studios like From Software, Level 5 and Media.Vision to make them instead.
c) What are you counting as notable? Siren: Blood Curse doesn't count? LocoRoco? Gravity Rush? If they don't count then how many notable games did they make last gen? Just Ico and SotC?
d) 4 years of development. You don't think they deserve any credit for getting their game out just a few months after the Vita's launch? And that it would've been out well beforehand if they hadn't had to switch over to it? I do. And you realise western studios can take years to make games too, right? Infamous and Killzone 2 took 4 years to develop as well.

It's not that clear cut.

EyeToy and Move may come from their R&D arm, not inside SCEWW studios directly. According to wiki, Richard Marks was put in a studio later to help in EyeToy title development. He may be back to his R&D team again (not under any studio).

Same for ICE team. I wouldn't be surprised if these R&D folks participate in game development directly to help tool adoption and perfection.

Huh? Those R&D groups aren't separate from the studios, they're based in the same buildings and are part of those studios. The EyeToy R&D group within Sony London (not called XDev btw, that's a Sony Liverpool thing) and ICE Team within Naughty Dog.
 

patsu

Member
Huh? Those R&D groups aren't separate from the studios, they're based in the same buildings and are part of those studios. The EyeToy R&D group within Sony London (not called XDev btw, that's a Sony Liverpool thing) and ICE Team within Naughty Dog.

Yes, but some people get assigned between the studios and the R&D teams depending on the needs.
 
I would almost exclusively have Sony Japan working on PSN titles for the PS4. Games like Rain and Puppeteer would go a long ways when it comes to selling PSN next generation.
 
a) Didn't we just discuss that 400 number? I think it's bullshit.
b) Japan Studio didn't make a single JRPG for the PS2 either, who gives a shit? JRPGs are not a stock necessity of Japanese studios and it's much easier to get studios like From Software, Level 5 and Media.Vision to make them instead.
c) What are you counting as notable? Siren: Blood Curse doesn't count? LocoRoco? Gravity Rush? If they don't count then how many notable games did they make last gen? Just Ico and SotC?
d) 4 years of development. You don't think they deserve any credit for getting their game out just a few months after the Vita's launch? And that it would've been out well beforehand if they hadn't had to switch over to it? I do. And you realise western studios can take years to make games too, right? Infamous and Killzone 2 took 4 years to develop as well.



Huh? Those R&D groups aren't separate from the studios, they're based in the same buildings and are part of those studios. The EyeToy R&D group within Sony London (not called XDev btw, that's a Sony Liverpool thing) and ICE Team within Naughty Dog.
Studio Japan has developed a tonne of PSP content. But SCEJ gets ignored. I agree with you.
 
The original makers of Arc The Lad 1 and 2 (maybe 3) G-Craft was absorbed into Square if I'm not mistaken (since they made Front Mission games also). I do not think Media Vision has the staff/high end programmers for an HD graphic engine either.



I can tell you why we haven't really easily.
-Rogue Galaxy was created to be the NEXT big RPG to rival Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. That was the goal of Level 5/SCEJ. It didn't exactly do well.

-Wild Arms sold well on PS1, continued seeing its sales go down on PS2 and XF sold really bad.

-Legaia 2 did not sell good compared to 1.

-PoPoLoCrois sales declined on PS2 and the ports on PSP barely sold.

-The newer Arc The Lad games on PS2 developed by Cattle Call bombed.

-Dark Cloud 2 did not sell anywhere near as much as the first one.

-Pretty much every new JRPG SCEJ published for PS2 all bombed (Okage The Shadow King, Dual Hearts, Tsunganai(sp), etc.).

-Pretty much every new JRPG SCEJ published for PSP bombed (Coded Soul, Brave Story, Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner, Blade Dancer, Jeanne D'Arc, etc.)

After getting burned out many types making a JRPG, this is why SCEJ does not make many of them internally. And don't forget that while WKC sold decently on PS3, its sequel sold worse and the PSP version really sold bad.

Believe me, I like the genre but I understand why they are cautious, since many of them require a higher budget and lots of staff.

Legend of Dragoon team is pretty much all gone working elsewhere around Japan.


Mistwalker would never work for Sony.

I think the game design, artstyle, and overall quality need to be taken into account when looking at these games. I'd argue many - if not all - of them aren't very appealing or appeal strongly to only a small group of people.

Using these as a barometer for the success of JRPGs would be like using games like Syndicate and Bulletstorm to make the case that shooters have a low ROI.

I mean, look at White Knight Chronicles. Now imagine had it actually been the awesome, AAA game it was billed to be when announced. The first has a 64% on Metacritic, and the second, despite including what Level 5 considered to be a necessary upgrade of the first game, only has a 60%.
 
Does japan have much of a indie scene like the US and EU?

Would be great of Japan Studio became like the SSM of japan by working with smaller indie devs to make cool games while also making there own games in house.
 
Yes, but some people get assigned between the studios and the R&D teams depending on the needs.
The R&D teams are incorporated within the studios. For example Naughty Dog is part of SCEWWS, ICE Team is a division of Naughty Dog, ergo ICE Team is also part of SCEWWS. It's not separated, SCEWWS is basically an umbrella to unify all SCE's software development divisions (games and otherwise) under one management. They used to be separated and report to their regional branches (SCEI, SCEA, SCEE) but now those branches are basically just for sales/PR.
 

patsu

Member
The R&D teams are incorporated within the studios. For example Naughty Dog is part of SCEWWS, ICE Team is a division of Naughty Dog, ergo ICE Team is also part of SCEWWS. It's not separated, SCEWWS is basically an umbrella to unify all SCE's software development divisions (games and otherwise) under one management. They used to be separated and report to their regional branches (SCEI, SCEA, SCEE) but now those branches are basically just for sales/PR.

Yes, they work very closely with the game teams to develop and incorporate their technologies. It wouldn't be accurate to count them out entirely when considering game development manpower, but it wouldn't be accurate to include all of them too. That's why I said it's not clear cut.
 

Withnail

Member
The R&D teams are incorporated within the studios. For example Naughty Dog is part of SCEWWS, ICE Team is a division of Naughty Dog, ergo ICE Team is also part of SCEWWS. It's not separated, SCEWWS is basically an umbrella to unify all SCE's software development divisions (games and otherwise) under one management. They used to be separated and report to their regional branches (SCEI, SCEA, SCEE) but now those branches are basically just for sales/PR.

I think you're mostly right but ICE team is not a division of ND. I've seen this argued on GAF a few times but I think Arne once clarified that they just share a building.
 
I think the game design, artstyle, and overall quality need to be taken into account when looking at these games. I'd argue many - if not all - of them aren't very appealing or appeal strongly to only a small group of people.

Using these as a barometer for the success of JRPGs would be like using games like Syndicate and Bulletstorm to make the case that shooters have a low ROI.

I mean, look at White Knight Chronicles. Now imagine had it actually been the awesome, AAA game it was billed to be when announced. The first has a 64% on Metacritic, and the second, despite including what Level 5 considered to be a necessary upgrade of the first game, only has a 60%.
Rogue Galaxy and Dark Cloud 2 for instance got pretty good size budgets and look at how they did sales wise. Big budgets don't necessarily mean a game will automatically sell great and be great. WKC definitely had a good chunk of money poured into it, and look at how it turned out. GT5 is one of the most expensive games of all time and look at its reaction it got from people in the end.

And the big problem in Japan is, unless an RPG is Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, or even Kingdom Hearts to some extent, it just won't put up big numbers. The only series which can kind of do that is Tales. They'd be looking to get 300k out of an RPG they spent a lot of budget on. That's sort of why they left it up to the third parties because people in Japan showed that's what they rather buy.
 

Yuterald

Member
Folklore is the game of the generation

I hope Allan Becker bring it back somehow by a team with in Japoan Studio since Game Republic is dead or just hire Okamoto, Takashi Shono and Miyashita.

;_;

You know, this isn't something I would argue. I just finished the game for my first time about a week ago and loved every second of it. Personally, it's up there with Valkyria Chronicles and the original Demon's Souls. I'd KILL for a spiritual successor to Folklore from Japan Studio. Also, am I like the only one who got a Folklore vibe immediately from the trailer? Maybe it's because I just got off from playing it, but still. I guess it was the fairy tale setting and Japan Studio logo that tipped me off.
 
Typical JRPG's don't sell anymore though....a PS3 exclusive JRPG in this day and age would fail. I think the genre died long time ago on the PS2 or PSX. Final Fantasy is the only JRPG that sells now.




yea this post!! Mistwalker isn't worth it IMO...all they made were a Dragon Quest clone and a FF clone.


Skyrim sold a HUGE amount.

An open world JRPG, with a more serious gritty style than the cartoony, melodramatic stuff we've gotten from FFXIII would sell amazingly well in the west.

Gamers enjoy RPGS in general, doesn't matter if it's a JRPG or a WRPG, just needs the right balance of immersion, exploration, and atmosphere to engage the player.

FF7 had it, FF13 did not.
 
Skyrim sold a HUGE amount.

An open world JRPG, with a more serious gritty style than the cartoony, melodramatic stuff we've gotten from FFXIII would sell amazingly well in the west.

Gamers enjoy RPGS in general, doesn't matter if it's a JRPG or a WRPG, just needs the right balance of immersion, exploration, and atmosphere to engage the player.

FF7 had it, FF13 did not.

Good point, now that you mentioned it, I agree with you. Sony might have failed multiple times before (in the RPG genre) but they should keep going. They got close to a mega hit with Dark Souls but Yoshida gave the IP away to Namco Bandai.....
 

cyborg009

Banned
Good point, now that you mentioned it, I agree with you. Sony might have failed multiple times before (in the RPG genre) but they should keep going. They got close to a mega hit with Dark Souls but Yoshida gave the IP away to Namco Bandai.....

They could try their hand at a Legend of Dragoon Sequel...They still have Alundra and rumors that they're making a sequel to over my dead body
 

kuroshiki

Member
a) Didn't we just discuss that 400 number? I think it's bullshit.
b) Japan Studio didn't make a single JRPG for the PS2 either, who gives a shit? JRPGs are not a stock necessity of Japanese studios and it's much easier to get studios like From Software, Level 5 and Media.Vision to make them instead.
c) What are you counting as notable? Siren: Blood Curse doesn't count? LocoRoco? Gravity Rush? If they don't count then how many notable games did they make last gen? Just Ico and SotC?
d) 4 years of development. You don't think they deserve any credit for getting their game out just a few months after the Vita's launch? And that it would've been out well beforehand if they hadn't had to switch over to it? I do. And you realise western studios can take years to make games too, right? Infamous and Killzone 2 took 4 years to develop as well.



Huh? Those R&D groups aren't separate from the studios, they're based in the same buildings and are part of those studios. The EyeToy R&D group within Sony London (not called XDev btw, that's a Sony Liverpool thing) and ICE Team within Naughty Dog.

1. Japan studio made following JRPGs during PS2 era. Okage the shadow king, Arc The Lad, Wild Arms 3, 4, 5 (4 was actually pretty decent game), etc. During PS3 era, NOTHING.


2. Siren Blood curse was a great game. Was it notable? Not really. LocoRoco? That thing came out in 2006. Gravity Rush is awesome. no question about that.

But which one really earned critic and consumers heart alike? none. Which one made into a franchise? Locoroco only. (And 2 was just a reharsh of 1st one... I think we won't see any more of this)


3. Infamous and Killzone sold WAY more copies than any of Japan Studio's PS3 offering combined. and they actually delivered the products, while Japan was just in comatose stage.


Look the point is, Japan Studio needs to get their shit together and do something. Their presence was overwhelmingly NOTHING during this gen. Before PS3, Naughty Dog was hardly even mentioned in the gamer's blogs. Now when we talk about Sony games, SCEA is the first front runner and lead figure of 1st parties. Doesn't that tell you something?
 

jooey

The Motorcycle That Wouldn't Slow Down
If you guys think JRPGs are *anybody's* savior right now you need to seriously go experience the outside world.
 
They could try their hand at a Legend of Dragoon Sequel...They still have Alundra and rumors that they're making a sequel to over my dead body

Legend of Dragoon was basically a Final Fantasy clone...just like Lost Odyssey and we now how it did..

Dark Souls was unique, Sony should haven't given it away.
 

kuroshiki

Member
Why would that be?



Where in the world is Okamoto?

It's more like no one really needs mistwalker. Their games were... well, put in good way, subpar at best.

Okamoto is somewhere in japan. If Sony is smart, they should hire him and give him a separate project. The guy knows a lot about games.

If you guys think JRPGs are *anybody's* savior right now you need to seriously go experience the outside world.

JRPG lost its heyday long time ago and it's not coming back.

But it's also what Japan does the best. (besides fighting and shooting game)
 
1. Japan studio made following JRPGs during PS2 era. Okage the shadow king, Arc The Lad, Wild Arms 3, 4, 5 (4 was actually pretty decent game), etc. During PS3 era, NOTHING.
No they didn't. Zener Works made Okage, Cattle Call made the two PS2 Arc the Lad's and Media.Vision have made every Wild Arms game. If you're going to credit Japan Studio for those, you may as well credit them for White Knight Chronicles and Demon's Souls.

2. Siren Blood curse was a great game. Was it notable? Not really. LocoRoco? That thing came out in 2006. Gravity Rush is awesome. no question about that.

But which one really earned critic and consumers heart alike? none. Which one made into a franchise? Locoroco only. (And 2 was just a reharsh of 1st one... I think we won't see any more of this)
Yeah, LocoRoco came out in 2006. Then they made 3 sequels.

Earned critic and consumers heart alike? What's that even meant to mean. Seems to me like you're making up your definition of 'notable' and coming up with reasons to suit your argument.

3. Infamous and Killzone sold WAY more copies than any of Japan Studio's PS3 offering combined. and they actually delivered the products, while Japan was just in comatose stage.
So? Last I checked, games aren't made on a years to sales scale. But I guess you're completely okay with how long Gran Turismo's take to develop them, seeing as they sell WAY more than any other franchise Sony has.
 
Legend if Dragoon is the only purebred SCEJ developed JRPG I can think of? Though SCEJ did previously have subsidiaries (Contrail, Sugar & Rockets) that developed or co-developed JRPGs previously and were absorbed into what's now Japan Studio.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
I want new Arc the Lad and Wild Arms games really fucking bad, I don't know about you guys...

also I don't see why people are so up in arms over Allan Becker getting Japan Studio straightened up a bit, complaints that "Puppeteer looks too western"... umm, Japanese games go for a diversity of styles, not everything made in Japan has to conform to a specific style - I said that in the Puppeteer thread - even if I personally think the game looks very reminiscent of LBP with decent gameplay :p

More good games with Japanese-style risk/reward mechanics and gameplay mechanics is a good thing, no matter who is executive producing. Were people that upset over Jake Kazdal working on Rez with Q? Entertainment?
 

Takao

Banned
If none of Sony's American studios are making Vita exclusives, why are Sony's Japanese studios making console ones?
 
I want new Arc the Lad and Wild Arms games really fucking bad, I don't know about you guys...

also I don't see why people are so up in arms over Allan Becker getting Japan Studio straightened up a bit, complaints that "Puppeteer looks too western"... umm, Japanese games go for a diversity of styles, not everything made in Japan has to conform to a specific style - I said that in the Puppeteer thread - even if I personally think the game looks very reminiscent of LBP with decent gameplay :p

More good games with Japanese-style risk/reward mechanics and gameplay mechanics is a good thing, no matter who is executive producing. Were people that upset over Jake Kazdal working on Rez with Q? Entertainment?

A Wild Arms XF sequel please, such an underrated game.
 

kuroshiki

Member
No they didn't. Zener Works made Okage, Cattle Call made the two PS2 Arc the Lad's and Media.Vision have made every Wild Arms game. If you're going to credit Japan Studio for those, you may as well credit them for White Knight Chronicles and Demon's Souls.


Yeah, LocoRoco came out in 2006. Then they made 3 sequels.

Earned critic and consumers heart alike? What's that even meant to mean. Seems to me like you're making up your definition of 'notable' and coming up with reasons to suit your argument.


So? Last I checked, games aren't made on a years to sales scale. But I guess you're completely okay with how long Gran Turismo's take to develop them, seeing as they sell WAY more than any other franchise Sony has.

Ok. I'm done talking.

Keep believing that Japan Studio was relevant during past 10 years. I will just stick to my story.
 
It's fantastic to see Japan Studio getting revamped like this, but SCEJ needs to start expanding beyond Japan Studio.

SCEA and SCEE have been rapidly growing for years, with ND, SSM, and GG all expanding to 2-3 teams, acquiring Sucker Punch, and strengthening their relationship with Ready at Dawn.

Where is all that on the Japanese side? It's sorely needed as the 3DS gobbles up more and more third party support.

Though RaD and other third party affiliates are all overseen by SSM, so maybe Becker is intending to strengthen Japan Stidio's third party relations in a similar manner (though they've always been fairly active on that front before, it just never culminated in acquisitions like in NA).


Edit: lol I posted here three months ago.
 
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