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A second chance for a criminal who has served his sentence.

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WriterGK

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This seems to be world wide problem almost everywhere. I want to focus on child molesters/rapists. If they serve the time that they got by a Judge or Jury do they really get a fair second chance? If you ask me they really don't. Someone who killed someone and eventually gets free gets a second chance in life. So why not a rapists or a child molesters? In the USA they have to be registered so that everybody knows what they have done.. How many hope is there still left for them? They served theire time fair and square. If nobody believes in them isn't the chance of them doing the same thing again just growing bigger and bigger? I started this because I just watched OZ Season 2 Episode 6 and 7 this morning. We have the same problems here in The Netherlands as well. We had numerous cases of pedophiles done serving theire time and a lot of Towns won't let them live in it. To be honest I think it's a disgrace. Someone who steels, lies, cheats, kills even gets a second chance but molesters/rapists get zero chance to make a better life for themselve when they done theire time in prison.

First off I am not saying that what they did is good or not wrong. I am just saying why does every other criminal get a second chance after serving theire time but a molester/rapist got no chance at all to redeem himself?
 
They get to be free, that's what they deserve.

Do I feel sorry for them that they have to live with everyone knowing they raped an innocent being? No, and I don't see why anyone should. They molested a kid, to hell with their privacy, they lost that right the second they did what they did.
 
Most murderers don't really get a second chance. They are either sent away for life, sent to a mental institution or given a date with ol' sparky. The ones who do get off are usually ostracized or harassed.
 
note: just read over what I wrote...the ideas are all there, but it's a mess.... it's 4:30am here, my mind is half gone, so...sorry

The issue is what the crime says about the individual. Sexual crimes like that often stem from a base need or severe predisposition. Because of this, simply being separated from society for a number of years won't change the core individual. It punishes the action, not address the problem.
Murder that is driven by similar passions are treated the same way...that is, the incarceration is often times more permanent, or handled through the mental health side of things rather than simply 'doing time'.
 
The system of having recorded crimes is flawed in my opinion. Many people who have committed crimes can't even proceed to live a normal life even if they served their sentence. It's bad for the economy and may lead them to commit another crime.

AMUSIX said:
note: just read over what I wrote...the ideas are all there, but it's a mess.... it's 4:30am here, my mind is half gone, so...sorry

The issue is what the crime says about the individual. Sexual crimes like that often stem from a base need or severe predisposition. Because of this, simply being separated from society for a number of years won't change the core individual. It punishes the action, not address the problem.
Murder that is driven by similar passions are treated the same way...that is, the incarceration is often times more permanent, or handled through the mental health side of things rather than simply 'doing time'.
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True.

That's why it's easier to give certain murderers a second chance compared to people involved in sexual crimes.
 
Molesters and rapists have a very high rate of getting out and doing the crime again. They should be registered. If I have a kid, I should know if Mr. Jones down the road has a history of raping little kids. If I am a girl, I should know if Steve down the street raped girls before.


Murderers really don't get second chances. If someone steals something the impact of that isn't even comparable to rape and child molestation.
 
Gosh, I feel so bad for having more information at my disposal for the safety of society. I really wish the people I deem garbage can have their freedom and happy life, and I myself stay completely ignorant of the high risks of recurring offenses.

No seriously, why the heck should I feel sympathy for such scum again? I am not fond of people who are so easy on the forgiving part: you'll always be singing a different tune if anything like this happens to someone close to you. To me it seems like a lack of empathy if you talk about such serious things in such a simplified manner.
 
I understand all your opinions and where you come from. But isn't the sentence punishment enough? And you can't just bluntly say every rapists is the same.. there a numerous examples in the USA alone of people who get classified as a rapists and in fact it is way more complex than that.
 
WriterGK said:
I understand all your opinions and where you come from. But isn't the sentence punishment enough? And you can't just bluntly say every rapists is the same.. there a numerous examples in the USA alone of people who get classified as a rapists and in fact it is way more complex than that.
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It's more about the danger of re-offending than punishment. Better safe than sorry basically.
 
WriterGK said:
I understand all your opinions and where you come from. But isn't the sentence punishment enough? And you can't just bluntly say every rapists is the same.. there a numerous examples in the USA alone of people who get classified as a rapists and in fact it is way more complex than that.
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I feel that The Netherlands is already too liberal with some crimes, so no, it's not enough for me. They can be locked up for the rest of their lives and I wouldn't blink an eye. I'm not gonna waste my time to sympathize with the scum of earth.
 
I don't really see the point of having the sex offender registry. All it does is hinder people who do regret what they did and are trying to get back into society. An unremorseful offender who intends to do it again isn't going to stop just because his name is listed on some website; he'll just take his "business" elsewhere or go online.

So it's like DRM; people who are trying to be honest get fucked while the dishonest just use some kind of bypass and keep doing what they do.
 
Thanks Amory for those link. Will most definitely be watching that second one. I like Louis Theroux and haven't seen this documentary yet.

Well let me put it this way. Let's say you or one of your friends has sex with this girl. She says she has the legal age and you and your friends think that as well. She consents to having sex with either you or a friend of yours. And after some time her parents find out. Well you're basically screwed and you are a sex offender for the rest of your life. Does this seem fair to you?
 
Neo C. said:
Yes. We should check their mental health regularly before their release though, and after the release as well.
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Of course they should be checked on I agree. But that isn't the same as bullying them, terrorizing them or keep harrassing them to move out of the neighbourhood.
 
aku:jiki said:
I don't really see the point of having the sex offender registry. All it does is hinder people who do regret what they did and are trying to get back into society. An unremorseful offender who intends to do it again isn't going to stop just because his name is listed on some website; he'll just take his "business" elsewhere or go online.

So it's like DRM; people who are trying to be honest get fucked while the dishonest just use some kind of bypass and keep doing what they do.
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But they are criminals. No, those scum don't deserve to be called 'honest'. I'm sure there are plenty of people out their with improper sexual desires who do manage to obey the law. That would be the DRM equivalent, not those who committed the crime.
 
Soneet said:
But they are criminals. No, those scum don't deserve to be called 'honest'. I'm sure there are plenty of people out their with improper sexual desires who do manage to obey the law. That would be the DRM equivalent, not those who committed the crime.
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So you're saying a criminal once is a criminal for ever? Even after going through prison for lets say 15 years and 5 years of a mental health institution?
 
WriterGK said:
So you're saying a criminal once is a criminal for ever? Even after going through prison for lets say 15 years and 5 years of a mental health institution?
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Uh... yeah? There's no such thing as an ex-criminal, since it would defeat the purpose of the very definition of the word criminal.
 
because these are the worst possible crimes, next to killing.
the difference to killing is though that killing can serve a purpose, I wont say it can be "good" but it can serve a purpose, ask soldiers around the world, ask the girl who killed the guy who tried to rape her.

raping and child molesting never serves a purpose. thats why we put the wishes of the people who potentially live or work next to him above his own.
 
I like the top comment in the youtube video from Louis:

''
females who bang teenage boys are not seen in the same hate filled irrational light as men who engage in similar encounters. when a 14 or 15 year old boy fucks a hot looking chick in her 20s 30s or 40s it is seen as a right of passage and the boy is given a pat on the back, however when a bisexual or homosexual boy of 14 or 15 has a consentual relationship with an older man then the man is called a monster and the boy is told he is traumatised for life and needs counciling ''
 
I'll just say what half of GAF is thinking after reading your post. Despite what you're trying to argue (and many have in other threads), more importantly, the timing and content of your post makes people very wary of what the motivation is behind your entire thread, and that last post. In order words, in some people's minds right now we're wondering if you have special urges. Of course I can be wrong and be the only one who thinks that, but considering the amount of time that there were no replies to your last post (which is the equivalent of being speechless), I think I'm not the only one who was thinking: "Should I really reply after such an awkward post?"
 
Soneet said:
Uh... yeah? There's no such thing as an ex-criminal, since it would defeat the purpose of the very definition of the word criminal.
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Yeah sorry but I thought you were older than me? You should know better.

First things first: Having harsher sentences is a waste of money. We already have low criminality with our current sentences, no need to waste extra money for people driven by emotions.
Secondly, criminal behavior can be the effect of a temporal psychological state. It's unfair to label such people as criminals for the rest of their lives when they really aren't.
 
What's the point of a justice system that release people out of prison if they're still a threat to society at large?
Why even put them in prison if when you release them they're not reformed?
Why even release them if it's for them to be a threat and end up doing the same shit over and over again?
 
Not only do they have to register, some neighborhoods will build small "parks" for as cheap as possible just so they can kick out all the registered sex offenders and prevent any from moving there. This exploits the rule of registered sex offenders not being allowed to live near parks/schools.

Honestly though...I have no sympathy. What they did is unforgivable.
 
Sex offenders have very high rates of re-offending, and as someone that has encountered several sex offenders, it is really great knowing they are watched frequently.
 
WriterGK said:
First off I am not saying that what they did is good or not wrong. I am just saying why does every other criminal get a second chance after serving theire time but a molester/rapist got no chance at all to redeem himself?
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You're looking at it the wrong way.

As someone else said, there is a high rate of recidivism among sexual predators and the fact that they have a chance at a life beyond the prison walls is a testament to how fairly they're treated.
 
marrec said:
You're looking at it the wrong way.

As someone else said, there is a high rate of recidivism among sexual predators and the fact that they have a chance at a life beyond the prison walls is a testament to how fairly they're treated.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender#Recidivism
A 2002 study by the United States Department of Justice indicated that recidivism rates among sex offenders was 5.3 percent; that is, about 1 in 19 of released sex offenders were later arrested for another sex crime. The same study mentioned that 68 percent of released non-sex offenders were rearrested for any crime (both sex and non-sex offenses), while 43 percent of the released sex offenders were rearrested for any crime (and 24 percent re-convicted).
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It's not as simple as that.
 
Dead Man said:
I don't see an advocacy for rapists, I see advocacy for people who have served their sentence.
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To what end though? They served their sentence sure. Am I okay with them living in close proximity to my family and without me being informed? Hell no. That seems to be the topic of the OP. I understand that every case isn't the same with sex offenders, but they need to look at it in a case by case basis. For example; Someone who is over 18 and has consentual relations with a minor lets say 17 isn't the same as someone who molests and sodomizes little kids. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
 
Choke on the Magic said:
To what end though? They served their sentence sure. Am I okay with them living in close proximity to my family and without me being informed? Hell no. That seems to be the topic of the OP. I understand that every case isn't the same with sex offenders, but they need to look at it in a case by case basis. For example; Someone who is over 18 and has consentual relations with a minor lets say 17 isn't the same as someone who molests and sodomizes little kids. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
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Yeah but if they served their sentence that means that in the eye of the justice system they're fit to reenter society.
If they're not fit to be back among the livings why are they released at all?
 
Mael said:
Yeah but if they served their sentence that means that in the eye of the justice system they're fit to reenter society.
If they're not fit to be back among the livings why are they released at all?
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Exactly. These need to be looked at on a case by case basis. Some of these offenders should never be released because they can't be trusted around children.
 
No they do not. I have seen firsthand.

The office i used to work hired a guy in the call center and one of the women who worked there found out a week after he was hired, that he was on the registered sex offenders list.

A group of ladies got together and brought this to my attention and the other managers and said they would refuse to work next to him and wanted him gone. He was a very nice guy, kept to himself, came in and did his job. After seven days, i would have kept him over several of the other people working there. We called him into the office and asked him why he didn't disclose he was a convicted felon, as required on the application. He explained that he was 20 years old when it happened, and he slept with a 16 year old girl whose parents pressed charges when they found out. 17 is age of consent in the state. He didnt tell us because he was desperate and needed a job and knew he wouldn't get hired.

The managers all put it to a vote and majority won to let him go. I felt bad for the guy. I would have let the other 5 ladies walk out the door before firing him. They were drama queens and always starting crap with other people. I would have swapped 5 of him for the 5 of them.
 
If OZ has learned me anything is that no one should ever get released from prison. They're all crazy. Every single one of them. Death penalty is the only option.
 
The_Woodsman_movie_poster.jpg


This is actually a good movie dealing with this subject and a child molester being put back into society.
 
bill0527 said:
No they do not. I have seen firsthand.

The office i used to work hired a guy in the call center and one of the women who worked there found out a week after he was hired, that he was on the registered sex offenders list.

A group of ladies got together and brought this to my attention and the other managers and said they would refuse to work next to him and wanted him gone. He was a very nice guy, kept to himself, came in and did his job. After seven days, i would have kept him over several of the other people working there. We called him into the office and asked him why he didn't disclose he was a convicted felon, as required on the application. He explained that he was 20 years old when it happened, and he slept with a 16 year old girl whose parents pressed charges when they found out. 17 is age of consent in the state. He didnt tell us because he was desperate and needed a job and knew he wouldn't get hired.

The managers all put it to a vote and majority won to let him go. I felt bad for the guy. I would have let the other 5 ladies walk out the door before firing him. They were drama queens and always starting crap with other people. I would have swapped 5 of him for the 5 of them.
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While that is unfortunate, it doesn't really matter how nice he is, the law of consent was there for a reason and he violated it. There should not be a grey area in regards to this.
 
I find it easier to "forgive" a criminal who murdered somebody while committing a robbery or other crime, than I do someone who committed a crime of a sexual nature. I realize that's weird.
 
2nd chance? Nope. They should all be put out on their own private island to live and when we get enough of the sickos there, we can drop a nuke on it.
 
bill0527 said:
No they do not. I have seen firsthand.

The office i used to work hired a guy in the call center and one of the women who worked there found out a week after he was hired, that he was on the registered sex offenders list.

A group of ladies got together and brought this to my attention and the other managers and said they would refuse to work next to him and wanted him gone. He was a very nice guy, kept to himself, came in and did his job. After seven days, i would have kept him over several of the other people working there. We called him into the office and asked him why he didn't disclose he was a convicted felon, as required on the application. He explained that he was 20 years old when it happened, and he slept with a 16 year old girl whose parents pressed charges when they found out. 17 is age of consent in the state. He didnt tell us because he was desperate and needed a job and knew he wouldn't get hired.

The managers all put it to a vote and majority won to let him go. I felt bad for the guy. I would have let the other 5 ladies walk out the door before firing him. They were drama queens and always starting crap with other people. I would have swapped 5 of him for the 5 of them.
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Stuff like that pisses me off.
 
Mael said:
Yeah but if they served their sentence that means that in the eye of the justice system they're fit to reenter society.
If they're not fit to be back among the livings why are they released at all?
Click to expand...

Because prison is punishment, not rehabilitation. If you send someone to prison, you make it MORE likely that they will commit another crime.
 
WriterGK said:
I understand all your opinions and where you come from. But isn't the sentence punishment enough? And you can't just bluntly say every rapists is the same.. there a numerous examples in the USA alone of people who get classified as a rapists and in fact it is way more complex than that.
Click to expand...

That's probably where this whole thing comes up. Point being that people (like the women from bill0527's work) DON'T believe that serving the sentence was enough punishment, so they add a social punishment on top of that. People like bill, who do feel that the sex offender paid his dues to society, don't seek further punishment for him.

I'm taking a criminal law class and we are asked each week to give our personal, anonymous opinions on how long certain crimes should be punished. There are usually clear leaders regarding punishment, but the range on these is usually huge -- one of the ones we did literally had a few people both on "no punishment" and "life imprisonment" as the extremes (it's possible there was even one or two people who wanted the death penalty, but I can't remember exactly).

Statutory rape is different IMO in the cases where it's very close. Some states in the US do allow a defense to the age thing if the two people are within a certain age of each other and the older one can show that he/she made a reasonable mistake.
 
Rocmisok said:
While that is unfortunate, it doesn't really matter how nice he is, the law of consent was there for a reason and he violated it. There should not be a grey area in regards to this.
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Are you serious? Plenty of jurisdictions have exemptions in that kind of situation. It's clearly not the same as a 64 year old with a 6 year old (obviously as long as it was consensual in the colloquial sense).
 
blackflag said:
2nd chance? Nope. They should all be put out on their own private island to live and when we get enough of the sickos there, we can drop a nuke on it.
Click to expand...

Please explain how murdering or raping an adult makes the person able to rehabilitate but doing it to a child makes them worth herding into a group and killing them like Jews in a death camp? That's kind of a big jump there.
 
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