Not in mine, so let agree to disagree.
Once again, he probably wouldn't have seen a doctor knowing that it would have ruined his career.
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A320 Crash in Southern France
- Thread starter itsgreen
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Where does this lead to it ruining his career? Pilots are grounded for depression in the US and Canada all the time.
Does this seem unfair?
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp13312-2-psychiatry-menu-2187.htm
Do you really think that Canadians have slipped down a slippery slope to require everyone to have a mental check and treat everyone as a criminal?
So he was also being treated for vision problems in addition to his psychiatric condition:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/w...e-germanwings-crash-authorities-say.html?_r=0
It likely would have been picked up in his once a year medical certification, but maybe doctors shouldn't have to wait a year to tell an airline that a pilot has trouble with his vision.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/w...e-germanwings-crash-authorities-say.html?_r=0
It likely would have been picked up in his once a year medical certification, but maybe doctors shouldn't have to wait a year to tell an airline that a pilot has trouble with his vision.
The 99.999999999% of pilots that aren't suffering from mental illness and planning to commit mass murder/suicide probably wouldn't hide vision problems from their employer.
Okay, but maybe in this instance, if a doctor is required to report unfit conditions like vision problems, maybe it would help?
The Canadian regulations would allow it:
Before you say maybe he won't see a doctor, maybe he would because he thought it was temporary and could be treated.
fierrotlepou
Member
Everything about this has made me extremely depressed. Those poor people. Suddenly forced into an early grave by a maniac. Those final moments must've been pure terror. I think witnessing everyone around you bracing for death and just screaming, holding each other must be so fucking awful.
I'm really thinking too much about this, but I just feel so sorry for those poor people. They didn't deserve this.
I'm really thinking too much about this, but I just feel so sorry for those poor people. They didn't deserve this.
I H8 Memes
Member
Instant death, sure. But it's a long way down with a long time to think about it. That's why I will never fly.
I'm sure lots more people die slowly in car wrecks than die at all in commercial airline accidents. Burning, drowning, excruciatingly painful mortal wounds, etc.
teh_J0kerer
Member
I'm having a really hard time getting this one out of my head too.. Most plane crashes, it's hard to imagine what it was actually like, so you can kind of create some mental distance for yourself.
This one is far too easy to imagine.. just like normal flying, except you see that you're slowly descending into a mountain and the pilot is banging on the cockpit door.
Makes me feel sick.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Probably not just the pilot. I would not be surprised if it's learned multiple people were helping him.
Same here. Been thinking about it a lot for days now because it's so disturbing. It's one of those things that make you realize how terrifying life can be at its absolute worst. Also my GF is flying in a couple weeks and neither of us are too used to flying so I can tell it's made her a little nervous about it(even though nothing similar could happen, obviously).
Truly.
If I were flying, it would be with my family. In the last few minutes I would embrace them deeply and tell them I love them so much, that my life was absolutely the best because of them. To not be afraid.
Ah dammit :_/ there's no reason why I can't do this after work today.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
This is good to hear. Lufthansa is apparently giving a 50,000 euro compensation to all the families, and it seems as if this is a no-strings attached thing. Not tied to any future litigation, just them making sure money isn't a worry for them right now.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ge...rline-pledges-54-450-victims-families-n331811
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ge...rline-pledges-54-450-victims-families-n331811
Standard reaction for airplane disasters. The amount is a bit higher than usual I believe.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I can't imagine its standard to give compensation without a requirement to waive future litigation rights.
But it's a nice gesture for sure.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Well if it was pilot action they know they'll be found liable. There's not much wiggle room out of there
It is. The Montreal Convention specifies each victim - or the family in case of deaths - gets a payout of $175.000 regardless of the party at fault. If a lawsuit is started, this amount is of course brought into consideration. The actual payout would be lowered with the amount already paid. So the €50.000 given, is just an initial payout. It is even perverted in such a way that if the victim lived in a country where the convention wasn't ratified, they don't get the payout. Happened to one of the Malasyian Airplanes disasters.
I H8 Memes
Member
I will remember this the next time I have 2 or 3 minutes to think about an 18 wheeler that is about to T-bone me.
Unknown Soldier
Member
TIL that the United States FAA has a specific airline regulation in place which specifies the "rule of two", that is, there must always be 2 people in the cockpit at any given moment and if the pilot or co-pilot for any reason must leave the cockpit someone must temporarily take his place. On US airlines, a flight attendant has temporarily sat at the flight controls before to ensure this regulation is properly followed and enforced.
The European Union has no such regulation in place, which means Lufthansa/Germanwings was not required to ever ensure that 2 people are always in the cockpit at any given moment, or even that anyone was in the cockpit.
I'm not sure at this point if every airline on Earth which doesn't follow the "rule of two" should be sued for gross negligence but maybe a few lawsuits would do some good here.
Also, why was Malaysia Airlines still flying directly over Ukraine when every other airline that operated on that particular route that MH17 flew had started skirting north around Ukraine airspace when the civil war had broken out? Why is Malaysia Airlines even still allowed to continue operating?
These airlines strap hundreds of thousands of people into huge steel cigars every single day and fling them through Earth's atmosphere at 35,000 feet and at 500 mph and they can't even figure out how not to fly a plane without 2 people in the cockpit at all times or not fly over a war zone where both sides were operating anti-aircraft batteries against enemy military air forces. No, this is not okay.
The European Union has no such regulation in place, which means Lufthansa/Germanwings was not required to ever ensure that 2 people are always in the cockpit at any given moment, or even that anyone was in the cockpit.
I'm not sure at this point if every airline on Earth which doesn't follow the "rule of two" should be sued for gross negligence but maybe a few lawsuits would do some good here.
Also, why was Malaysia Airlines still flying directly over Ukraine when every other airline that operated on that particular route that MH17 flew had started skirting north around Ukraine airspace when the civil war had broken out? Why is Malaysia Airlines even still allowed to continue operating?
These airlines strap hundreds of thousands of people into huge steel cigars every single day and fling them through Earth's atmosphere at 35,000 feet and at 500 mph and they can't even figure out how not to fly a plane without 2 people in the cockpit at all times or not fly over a war zone where both sides were operating anti-aircraft batteries against enemy military air forces. No, this is not okay.
What's the difference between knowing an 18 wheeler will t-bone you and slowly burning or drowning? Lots of terrible, awful shit can happen to you no matter what you decide to do when you leave your house. You don't think it's irrational to never fly because you might not simply be involved in a disaster but specifically a disaster which you have time to recognize will occur?
I H8 Memes
Member
I haven't flown once in my life. Haven't been in a plane crash yet. It's working for me so far.
At least in a car I'm the one in control. 41 and still havent been in an accident, So that's working for me too.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Lisa Simpson's tiger rock, etc etc...
I've flown my entire life. Countless flights, and I've never been in an accident. That's working for me, too!
You're at the mercy of others on the road when driving. I've never had an accident caused by myself but plenty of prangs caused by idiots not looking where they're going.
You're driving, but obviously you aren't necessarily in control over whether or not you're in an accident.
Delta Assault
Member
Negligence would require that the airline breached its duty of care. The standard for that duty of care would be something along the lines of reasonable standards for that particular industry/field. In this particular case, you could go ahead and argue that American airlines were required to have the two person policy and that Germanwings did not meet that standard. However, I think a strong defense would argue that this was only implemented in the US, and the rest of the world's airlines did not have this policy, thus the reasonable standard for an airline would not require such a policy. Remember, the care is only required to be of a reasonable standard for the industry, not the most stringent and safety-conscious standard by any particular entity in the industry. If the US required psych evals every week and 24/7 surveillance of pilots, you couldn't say that that's an industry-wide standard.
As for the Malaysian flight lost over Ukraine, I believe news reports indicated that multiple other airlines *did* operate over that route, hence why Malaysia Air didn't get crucified that badly. Of course, correct me if I'm wrong here.
IdreamofHIME
Member
You know how many planes fly over Iraq every day? No airline is getting criticized for flying over a warzone because the kind of weaponry needed to bring down a jet from 35,000ft isn't that readily available...which is why all fingers were pointed at Russia, coz rebels just don't have it.
Jezbollah
Member
And this is why the permitted airspace for the Ukraine was any altitude above 30,000ft.
I H8 Memes
Member
Damn, at least 5 minutes of these people screaming and knowing they were going to die. Fucking brutal.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Yeah, there was a Singapore Airlines flight just minutes away, I believe. Other airlines were definitely flying there.
maquiladora
Member
Tabloids keeping it classy as usual.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Maybe over a long period, but I doubt there's a group of suicidal pilots waiting in the wings to copycat this.
Delta Assault
Member
It's happened something like 16 times in the entire history of aviation. In that time, we've had roughly 500 million flights (number I found on an airline forum). Yeah, I think you're probably right that this will happen again. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
That's what I mean though, humanity is improving in such tiny steps that something like this will still happen in 100 years.
How fucking sick in the head would you have to be to fake something like that?
Jesus Christ, save us from ourselves.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Dreams-Visions
Member
yea they for damn sure had a lot of time to think about it based on that voice recorder. A wing fucking scraped a mountain well before the final collision.
fuck.
But this isn't a good reason why you should never fly, bro. I know putting yourself in a position of not having any control over your fate thousands of feet in the sky can feel scary, but take it from someone who's flown several times a year every year since he was 6: you'll be fine and chances are you'll have a lot of fun up there. Get yourself a window seat and take it all in. It's the closest to space you're likely to get in your lifetime. The view is breathtaking. Especially if part of your fight takes you over the ocean or mountains.
This is not rational. Flying is incredibly safe.
SniperHunter
Banned
Seeing the plane travel at 800 kilometers per hour so close to the ground must have been very scary.
Latest news: pilot was diagnosed for "suicidal tendencies" several years before becoming a pilot!
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2&pLid=635683
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2&pLid=635683
Both the eye doctor and neuropsychologist deemed him unfit to work:
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/31/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/31/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/
The co-pilot informed Lufthansa about his depressions in 2009. He mailed his flight school about a "declining heavy depressive episode". He stated this as the reason for the 6 month interruption of his training.
http://www.lufthansagroup.com/de/presse/meldungen/view/archive/2015/march/31/article/3485.html (German)
http://www.lufthansagroup.com/de/presse/meldungen/view/archive/2015/march/31/article/3485.html (German)
RustyNails
Member
I hope they rake Lufthansa over coals with the new information...why did they overlook his mental state? Coming from someone who flew Lufthansa quite frequently, this is all the more concerning.
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