Support NeoGAF

[Beer Monkey]

Achievements are cool, it's a nice way to compare progress with your friends.

Gamerscore is lame. It's largely an indicator as to how much spare time the player has and how much OCD they have. Microsoft wanting to protect the sanctity of gamerscore by fighting against account sharing is absurd.

 

[aku:jiki]

I think MS did kind of miss a big opportunity here. I remember before the 360 came out there was talk that Achievements would be some sort of currency. Why not get a dashboard wallpaper when you win the Superbowl in Madden? What about gamperpics? Why not have all the achievement icons usable as gamerpics? R6:V would be perfect. Rank up to Elite? Get an Elite badge for your gamerpic to show everyone.

But the system allows that, obviously, as we're already talking about the GoW gamerpic(s -- there's one for getting "Seriously..." as well). Other games like Tapper and Jetpac give gamerpics for acheivement unlocks, and Jetpac even gives you a theme. It's the devs that can't be bothered to put that stuff in.

Actually, there's a huge thread over on xbox.com where people are begging for MS to add a feature where you get to use the actual achievement picture as your gamerpic if you unlock the achievement. That's a quick and easy solution that would give people something back for their work, without adding pretty much any workload for the devs at all (I mean, they've already designed those achievement icons as the 360 dev rules require it). But I'd think they'd rather keep selling gamerpics so it'll probably never happen. :/

As for the topic at hand...yeah, I'm an achievement whore and my habits are none of your fucking business.

 

[ShinAmano]

Zuma - Sharp Shooter

I love achievements...mostly becasue of things like the above achievement...without knowing there was a way to actually do this I would have never figured it out...I had to learn the game to get good enough to get it...much like Geometry Wars.

I have a couple of friends who cheated to get theirs in Halo 3...I gave them hell...then when i got mine legit I made videos for them just to rub it in.

I play games for fun...some achievements present a challenge...the challenge is what drives me not the points...and I have never played a game for the points.

I can't wait to see what Itagaki has in store for Ninja Gaiden 2's achievements

 

[RSTEIN]

But the system allows that, obviously, as we're already talking about the GoW gamerpic(s -- there's one for getting "Seriously..." as well). Other games like Tapper and Jetpac give gamerpics for acheivement unlocks, and Jetpac even gives you a theme. It's the devs that can't be bothered to put that stuff in.

Yes, good point but... that's 3 games out of hundreds (and one of your examples requires hundreds of hours to unlock). How much time/money does it take to design a dashboard backround or gamerpic? Jesus... give it to an intern or something. It's a natural, obvious evolution of the achievement system.

 

[Varth]

Magic formula of fun and addictiveness:
NO online achievement (Thank you, Infinity Ward, for being smart) +
NO gamerscore, only achievement.

But then again, the whole achievement thing, even with all his faults, is to be regarded as one of the landmarks of this generation.

 

[pooteeweet]

Im guessing your read nothing the OP posted. Then again your rage speaks for itself.

Oh, I read it. I've read it or some variation of it for two years. Then, as now, I still can't be bothered to give a damn why someone plays a game.

 

[McBradders]

Some people obsess over silly things, so like...

Srlsy, whut?

 

[Snaku]

:lol

 

[Superblatt]

Oh, I read it. I've read it or some variation of it for two years. Then, as now, I still can't be bothered to give a damn why someone plays a game.

I actually don't think you did read what I wrote entirely. Unlike the vast majority of these conversations, I tempered what I wrote and clearly said "I like achievement points." It's the playing shitty games thing that doesn't make sense. I don't have a problem with it, but it does seem weird that there are enough people out there buying crap to get these points.

Do you play garbage games for whore points? If so, that's pretty funny. Personally, if there is nothing quality out to play on my 360, I hit up my PS3, Wii or a quality title from the rest of my collection.

My free time is too valuable to spend it playing games that suck.

 

[Rhindle]

If people like doing it, then why does it matter. Achievements just made a shitty game good for them. Lord knows I've spent a lot more time than I should have on a shitty game trying to complete some self imposed "achievement", even in the NES days.

I think that's the right way of looking at it.

It's entirely possible to have a game with fun achievements that would not be fun without the achievements. The fact that going after the achievements is what makes some people enjoy playing the game doesn't mean that they're not enjoying playing the game.

 

[AstroLad]

It's rare--and almost non-existent outside of TI-85s--the game that presents itself and can be purely enjoyed for its gameplay, without any other factors playing some role in that enjoyment, whether to its benefit or detriment.

Graphics, sound, story, voice acting, setting, etc. all often have little or no influence on actual gameplay and yet they affect our level of enjoyment. Same with scoring systems. Achievements are just another factor in this group. To some people, scoring is moronic and arbitrary and they may look down on those who play a game a certain constrained (often repetitive) way merely to have a specific number display on the screen. For others, it's slightly important but not nearly as important as mechanics or graphics.

I don't really see the utility of criticizing or the breathless confusion at people valuing factors differently, but I suppose this tension supports half the threads on GAF so it can't be all bad.

 

[Stahsky]

This is such a stupid thread.

 

[pilonv1]

But why play games that are just that bad? Outside of the Simpsons game I've seen people with 1000 gamer points for Eragon, Spongebob Squarepants and a whole host of other shit that I wouldn't be caught playing for 10 minutes let alone hours.

I wasn't aware there was a Spongebob 360 game yet.

a whole host of other shit that I wouldn't be caught playing for 10 minutes let alone hours.

Interestingly enough, different people have different taste.

 

[MercuryLS]

Oh yay, an anti-achievement diatribe. That's fresh. The only thing worse than achievement whores are people complaining about how or why other people play games.

Solid ownage in the first reply, nice job GAF.

While I don't really give a shit about achievements, I also don't give a shit if people play to be achievement whores? Everyone plays games for different reasons.

 

[Cruceh]

I have 405 points on my gamertag, yay!

 

[Grecco]

Gamerscore/Achievements was pure genius by Microsoft period.

 

[KTallguy]

Interestingly enough, different people have different taste.

So is it incorrect to say that the act of padding your gamer score by playing and beating poor, licensed, shovelware games increases the sales and number of releases of such titles?

I believe in Achievements, but not Gamer Score. It's great to look at your buddy and see what level he's on, what difficulty he's beaten the game at, what achievements he's earned, even how many points he's gotten in a specific game. Once that information is compiled into an arbitrary score, it simply becomes a way to reinforce bad purchasing habits. Great for the game stores and publishers (but it doesn't reward good games more than bad games, because the point totals are the same, and often, good games make it harder to get points), and bad for the consumer, as in the end, they're spending money on a poor title to get points, which will increase the volume of release of poor titles.

Not that the market isn't already flooded with garbage titles, but any system that promotes buying poor quality software to earn points is a pretty negative thing, in my mind.

 

[Narag]

I like both achievements and gamerscore and I'll admit I've played some shit to finish for a few points, most notably Transformers but that was balanced with delicious Frank Welker Megatron action, but I'd rather see achievements unlock bonus content even if its just little stuff like free gamer pics or something more noticeable like the Halo 3 katana. They're both as intangible as the gamerscore but its nice to have the extra stuff that not everyone else might have.

 

[jakershaker]

Don't have the time/energy to bother with achievements, just play the games as long as it's fun to do so.

And to be honest some achievments are more like grinding in an mmo then having anything with skill to do. See more and more of those too.

Know some friends who care about it though but they game 24/7 and really don't have anything else to do i guess.

 

[watership]

Great. A rant about something completely optional yet if you care adds greatly to the gaming experience.

Remember rants like this when Xbox went online? ONLINE IS RUINING GAMES!

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Great. A rant about something completely optional yet if you care adds greatly to the gaming experience.

Remember rants like this when Dreamcast and Xbox was online? ONLINE IS RUINING GAMES!

sorry but if you inflate Sales of shitty games just for your E-Penis than you are a tool.

 

[rollingstart]

I think Achievement Points are good and it usually gives substance to the completest in me, but they should not ever be used as an excuse to play a game.

 

[Troidal]

Heeeey....King Kong was a good game!

Spoiler

Haha, right. 1000 points ba da bing!

 

[Attack You]

Having always been a points junkie, it's easy to see the appeal in Gamerscores. Fortunately, for my own sanity, the barrier of spending money on games (buying or renting) to pad my score keeps me from obsessing over it. That spills over into Achievements, too. Since I don't care about my Gamerscore, I don't care about unlocking Achievements to build it up. Now, if the pts. actually went towards something, I'd have to reconsider my line of thinking.

 

[Kiriku]

I like the concept with achievements if they're done in an original and interesting way (ie not "complete level" or "reach level 99") but I feel they're often too disconnected from the game itself. The only thing you get is points that has nothing at all to do with the rest of the game. I want achievements better integrated, like complete a cool and crazy achievement to unlock a new car in a game, or new clothes for your character. Or hell, I remember when we used to get concept art for completing challenges in games. But I guess that stuff goes through microtransactions these days. :/

 

[bj00rn]

Controversy: Keeping Gaffers Posting Garbage Since...Like...EVAR

 

[Bowen_B]

I'm not really very intresting or funny or original.
Maybe if I act in a superior fashion it'll get me the attention no one will give me in real life

Some people play shitty games to get their gamerscore up.
Some people make shitty threads to get their post count up.

 

[aku:jiki]

Not that the market isn't already flooded with garbage titles, but any system that promotes buying poor quality software to earn points is a pretty negative thing, in my mind.

God, what kind of idiot buys the gamerscore-inflating crap games? We rent them, dur.

And besides, ignoring the "part of the problem" catchphrase, it's not like we're playing a significant role in keeping shovelware alive. Quick and dirty Shrek 3 games are never going to go away. Ever. Doesn't matter if we rent them or not.

I don't see why we should be berated, like so many people have already said (including myself); it's none of your damn business what we do, and we're not hurting anyone.

I also love the contingent of people who seem to imagine people running in the streets yelling out their gamerscores, trying to brag to everyone anywhere. I'm very active in the achievement community and I've never seen anybody brag about their high gamerscores, not even the world leaders. Only time I've ever seen anyone on GAF even post their gamerscore at all is pretty much when I do it, and I mostly do it to make a little fun of myself. Really, where are people seeing all the bragging that apparently annoys them so much?

 

[Attack You]

Really, where are people seeing all the bragging that apparently annoys them so much?

Visit message boards that allow sigs. I'm not annoyed by it, though.

 

[Deegs]

That maybe the case for some but I for one can attest that I've stayed the course in what games I play. In fact I don't let anyone play games on my gamertag (offline or online) because I want to earn all the achievements available for one the games I own. I don't rent games for this achievements either, I find myself buying more games but I still don't buy crap games. I just by more good-great games instead of just the AAA ones.

I may be one of the few and far between but I really can't say acheivements have changed the way I play just that I by more games then rent.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Who cares?

Any half-twit who can muster enough gamer juice to click on someone's gamer history can easily form an assumption that a particular gamer is a budget title whore looking to pad his panties.

What's really cool is when you see someone with a neat achievement, like firing only one bullet in Episode 1.

Ive got that particular achievement, and it wasnt all that easy to get either. Forcing yourself to use gravgun for almost every kill, and hiding and letting alyx do alot of the killing, its quite unique playing that way.

 

[blackadde]

because without achievement whores, who would support all those shitty games out there?

 

[Truelize]

Because some people are completionists.

Well said my friend. That's my issue. Even if a game makes me want to punch myself in the balls it is incredibly hard for me to stop playing it because I want to, no I NEED to get that last achievement. It has nothing to do with the gamerscore for me, it's all about getting the individual achievements. For a lot of them I find it even more of a challenge to push through a crappy game to get an achievement. It's almost like a badge of armour.

 

[Rorschach]

Well said my friend. That's my issue. Even if a game makes me want to punch myself in the balls it is incredibly hard for me to stop playing it because I want to, no I NEED to get that last achievement. It has nothing to do with the gamerscore for me, it's all about getting the individual achievements. For a lot of them I find it even more of a challenge to push through a crappy game to get an achievement. It's almost like a badge of armour.

It's true. I didn't respect Truelize until I saw his gamerscore. Now, I'm just honored to be posting on the same board.

PS:what do tank badges have to do with this?

 

[Joe Molotov]

Why do you play games?

To justify my trolling.

 

[Bildi]

Gamerscore/Achievements was pure genius by Microsoft period.

Now there's something we can all agree on. Microsoft know how to make money.

 

[Mar]

Jetpac give gamerpics for acheivement unlocks, and Jetpac even gives you a theme.

Ahh.. So that's how you access the free stuff. What achievements do you actually need though?

Actually, there's a huge thread over on xbox.com where people are begging for MS to add a feature where you get to use the actual achievement picture as your gamerpic if you unlock the achievement.

That would be awesome and instantly make the entire achievement system 100% more interesting.

I'm an achievement addict but only on the games I like. I'll go for the maximum, either 200/200 or 1000/1000 if I'm absolutely in love with a game. Otherwise I'll just do as much as I can. Online achievements I don't usually bother with (I have a lot of very active friends on retail games but not arcade unfortunately).

So basically, my gamerscore has gotten pretty massive in the short time I've owned a 360 (around 2 months). But no one can point to any achievements I've unlocked and can claim I'm an achievement whore. No horrible retail or arcade games, not even the free arcade games (Hexic and Yaris). I just play what I like and play them to the maximum I can.

 

[DCharlie]

Remember rants like this when Xbox went online? ONLINE IS RUINING GAMES!

That period was ace in how it came back to haunt certain fanboys :

A HARD DISK? Lol - how long will it be before you have to install stuff !
A HARD DISK? Lol - all the games will be released incomplete and need a patch!

anyways, Achievements - lets wait until all three consoles have their equivalent so everyone can click how awesome they are.

Achievements without a score though seems pointless. Sony need to add some sort of measurable, even if it's simply "Number of medals" or whatever system they are going to use.

 

[Wario64]

Bullet Witch = GOTY

 

[Barnolde]

God, what kind of idiot buys the gamerscore-inflating crap games? We rent them, dur.

This kind of idiot.

Such a waste of money and he buys them all new too!

The Salvation Army could use that money

 

[DCharlie]

Such a waste of money and he buys them all new too!

why are you people so jealous of people having fun?

oh wait, i think i figured it out! looooools.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

This kind of idiot.

Such a waste of money and he buys them all new too!

The Salvation Army could use that money

man hes had to have gone through like 10 360s by now.

 

[pilonv1]

Bullet Witch = GOTY

1pt achievements FTW.

 

[DDayton]

Now I'm curious... is it possible to keep earning points but keep your entire profile HIDDEN?

 

[eclipze]

Achievement points are for geeks.

GAF is for geeks.

see what i did there???