exmachina64
Banned
Too many Gold subscribers to make that profitable.
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Ads / Content Promotion on Xbox Live - let's hash it out!
- Thread starter Clay Davis
- Start date
Too many Gold subscribers to make that profitable.
Nealand Liquor
Member
If going by the definition used by some in this thread the whole menu is an ad, and it is; However what I think the real question hiding behind this 'ad not ad' debate is 'Are all ads bad and created equal'?
SlipperyMoose
Member
I use Xbox LIVE and am against the fact that you have to pay online, however I can honestly say I don't care about Ads no matter how hard I try. I know, I know other systems don't have them, but the ads just don't bother me.
I guess I'm in the minority.
I guess I'm in the minority.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
With HBO you pay for cable then pay for HBO then still see ads on the channel.
If you entered the restaurant (and owned it) to use the service appliances to cook food you would have a point. But you entered a establishment with the intend to buy something which I don't most of the time on my 360/PS3.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
ad·ver·tise·ment
/ˈadvərˌtīzmənt/
Noun
A notice or announcement in a public medium promoting a product, service, or event or publicizing a job vacancy.
That is a poor analogy too. When you walk into a restaurant you have the clear intent of buying the food in the restaurant. You do not turn on your xbox to always buy games but to mainly play games. The intent here is to play games not buy games.
EDIT: beaten
Nealand Liquor
Member
On gaf maybe, but irl I would say your feelings are more inline with the common user. If not, and the ads caused the same outrage expressed itt, there is no way MS would continue with the current format.
I bought a Xbox 360 and intend to consume content offered by it how is that any different?
Considering most people on Xbox 360 watch Netflix, the idea of the clear intent being to play games is completely wrong.
It is not a poor analogy, the dash is basically a menu for the content served by the console.
I completely understand the transition that has made the current dashboard to what it is today. Like it or not more people that use Xbox 360's consume media than play games.
snoopeasystreet
Member
Yep. Even if there was one tab that I could customize and boot into, I'd live with the rest of the tabs being ad fests.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Basically the Dashboard has gone from being a system os with an xbox live marketplace option to being the Xbox Live Marketplace with your pieces peppered into it at the sides.
Uno Venova
Banned
Most people on 360 watch netflix? Doesn't sound right at all.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...360-for-entertainment-than-online-gaming.aspx
More people watch media than play games you can guarantee the largest use of "media" is Netflix.
Xbox Usecase: Me want to play game->me turn on 360->at no point me want to look at ads
XBLM Usecase: Me want to buy game thing->me go to marketplace->me looking at promotions and maybe buy new game thing
Resteraunt Usecase: Me want food->me go to foodplace->me looking at menu and maybe buy food
Nealand Liquor
Member
You don't own live for one, you own the console and the ability to use it. I own a computer and modem, not the entire internet.
If people only used consoles to play games bought at brick and morter stores you'd be correct, but they don't. They use Live as the service it is and make purchases through it regularly. Just because we don't buy something everytime we turn it on doesn't mean there isn't the potential to due so. I have money in my psn/steam wallet and points on live. This one aspect of all onlive services makes the argument of only playing games not apply to the current discussion.
Uno Venova
Banned
yeah that's most people on gold, that makes more sense.
semiconscious
Member
this's how you do a home screen. accept no substitutes (even from ps4)
...You know you can setup your console to auto-start discs entered into the console so you can essentially skip the dash altogether and get to your game right?
What I'm saying is that you don't represent the majority of Xbox Live users so why should Microsoft cater to only your wants?
this's how you do a home screen. accept no substitutes (even from ps4)
Until you put a lot of content on it and it becomes over cluttered and useless, no thank you.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
You do not get it do you. If you say most people use xbox for netflix then it shows a clear intent to watch movies.....not to buy. Do you understand? You go into HMV to buy movies? You go to a cinema to watch movies?
You use a xbox to play games or watch movies. You go into gamestop or Xbox Marketplace to buy games.
There should never be ads on the main dash.
semiconscious
Member
unless i highlight/select something, there's no content on mine...
Nealand Liquor
Member
But you can play games on the 360 without ever seeing the ads at all. There is more than one way to do this, and it's odd the people offended by the ads choose not to exercise their options to due so, or even stranger being a 360 owner and not knowing about said options.
And if all of the Live services were free I would agree but this isn't a facebook type situation. Ads are one of the reasons I didn't renew Gold a few years ago. And in the long run the better service will win. Right now Live has the upper hand because Sony fucked up with PSN. I hope this is a problem that the market and competition will solve. If it doesn't solve itself on consoles I still have Steam. I just think Live right now is not the best service it can be because of ads.
How do I launch an XBLA game without seeing "promotions"?
RedNumberFive
Banned
You're kidding, right?
Ads on the home screen of a user interface are one of the least classy things I've seen in a device UI. It says a lot about the xbox user experience when the most useful tiles for the end user have been sold off so a bunch of other companies can advertise to you.
The only reason to defend what people here are calling "content promotion" ads are because they're the only quick way to navigate the horrible store pages. It speaks volumes about their store design when they have a dedicated app for viewing sales and specials; clearly Microsoft know that people can't get around their awful interface quickly but they'd rather put a bandaid on it than stop the flow of advertising.
lol, a better restaurant analogy would be making a reservation and then showing up to find 6 used car salesmen between you and the table.
The only reason to defend what people here are calling "content promotion" ads are because they're the only quick way to navigate the horrible store pages. It speaks volumes about their store design when they have a dedicated app for viewing sales and specials; clearly Microsoft know that people can't get around their awful interface quickly but they'd rather put a bandaid on it than stop the flow of advertising.
lol, a better restaurant analogy would be making a reservation and then showing up to find 6 used car salesmen between you and the table.
Unhandled Exception
Member
Content promotion? Is this PC for completely fucking intrusive ads that people pay to see? I wasn't aware the feelings of advertisers needed to be taken into account.
Actually I perfectly understand that... The worse part of modern media consumption is how fast it's made and served it's hard to keep up with what is actually new. Netflix is a great example the services UI on every platform I've tried has made it hard for me to even find content I want to watch anymore as I've watched all the stuff easy to find that I'm interested in.
I've already said that these ads need to be a choice and even more so for gold subscribers but to shun the entire idea of content consumption ads as useless and intrusive is pretty silly.
For example a ad for Pacific Rim on the dash might be intrusive for your gaming experience but for millions of others it introduced them to the content in the first place and made them interested in the content.
No it wouldn't as you can easily ignore the ads on the dash and move onto what you want to do. It's not like every time you go to different sections of the dash you're forced to watch a video ad.
semiconscious
Member
seriously. what are you saying, gtguy? that's the friggin' home screen...
RedNumberFive
Banned
He really needs to explain himself on that one.
maquiladora
Member
Huh? This makes no sense.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
See, even your example shows a clear distinction between what's an ad and what's not. With the existing dashboard, a simple gap between that column of console functions and ads would actually be enough to make the two stand apart
Edit: Like so..
Nealand Liquor
Member
Auto launch disk in tray, then use the guide button to go to my games.
Maybe not the best solution for those who hate ads, but a fast solution none the less.
Unhandled Exception
Member
And for those of you interested in them, great. There should be some sort of toggle for you guys to turn on and leave the rest of us in peace by default. It's hilarious that people are coming up with new terms for fucking advertisements though. I'm more partial to 'experience opportunities' over 'content promotion'.
Uno Venova
Banned
And if there isn't a disc in the tray?
There really isn't any reasonable way to avoid them, so I don't see the point of suggesting any.
fabricated backlash
Member
The fact of the matter is, a restaurants menu is a functional tool that is designed to help you choose the things you want. The advertisement part is mostly non intrusive to that process.
The XBL Dashboard however is severly handicapped by ads. Navigation is poor, and ads actually dominate the main interface, as opposed to key navigational features.
Ads wouldn't be that bad if they weren't so obtrusive and would actually dictate the menu layout and functionality.
As a main menu, the Dashboard is a nightmare. It's cumbersome and detrimental to the consumer. The home button Dashboard is vastly superior, and I always boot to the game these days as I simply despise the Metro Dashboard.
I've already said it needs to be a choice. How many times do I need to say this?
I've used the PS3 for content consumption and scrolling down through movies was one of the most terrible ways I've seen to sort through my collection and watch them. I'll go as far to say the UI on the PS3 is the worse UI possible to use if you have a lot of content to deal with.
I've already repeated many times I believe it should be a choice but I also don't think a ad for new content for a game served on the marketplace is as bad as a ad for McDonalds.
We used the example of the disc tray as it was mentioned earlier. Right now there really is no way to get away from the ads and Microsoft should be blasted for forcing them on people.
See, even your example shows a clear distinction between what's an ad and what's not. With the existing dashboard, a simple gap between that column of console functions and ads would actually be enough to make the two stand apart
Edit: Like so..
I like what you did with it there but I think a better solution would be to just allow you to turn off the ads.
WickedCobra03
Member
Yeah, MS has really let me down this generation. XBL was worth it in 2002-2005ish even because it had the best online experience for consoles and even in some aspects better than PC, but now they have just kind of been looking at ways of making money without improving services, but actually the opposite, making user experiences worse. I now play very little of my xbox after the crap with 5 RRoD's (I don't even play much, maybe 5 hours a week on average, maybe in summer double that), their crummy customer service, having to pay to occasionally play online (I am more of a SP guy), and now the dashboard is an absolute mess that reeks even more with adverts. Oh yeah, and Major Nelson (Larry Hyrb) is a complete asshat after he tried defending the price of their HDD upgrades for the insane amount of money they were selling them for.
Yep, and also, auto-launch may steer you clear off ads, but you don't get to do anything else when you're being booted into the game. Say you turn on the xbox to browse thru your content library. Auto-launching into a game wouldn't allow you to do that immediately.
Horrible and embarassing, yes.
I don't want ads on my stuff, unless it's free.
Will i take it? Yes, since at the end of the day i buy a console to play its games and, as long as the ads are not ingame, i can deal with them, but they ARE a detriment when choosing which console to get.
I don't want ads on my stuff, unless it's free.
Will i take it? Yes, since at the end of the day i buy a console to play its games and, as long as the ads are not ingame, i can deal with them, but they ARE a detriment when choosing which console to get.
There's no hasing it out. Anything that promotes content to you is an ad. The issue is simple
Personally I like control such as Steam gives you. Steam is a menu, a storefront and a content library and it lets you decide how you want to interact. You can have an experience almost identical to current Xbox dash where you get content promoted to you, you can have an experience where it is simply a menu unless you chose to enter the store or something in the middle.
So long as the Xbox dash is locked to a combined storefront/menu you'll get grumbling.
I personally hate being promoted to (I know what I want and am generally very aware of content available be it games, films, music, etc) and figure I'm paying for premium service so I'm in the grumbling camp for example.
- some find this fine as they accept that the dash is now a combined storefront/menu and don't mind or even like having content promoted to them
- some want only a menu they control with zero storefront/ads unless they enter the storefront as a conscious choice
Personally I like control such as Steam gives you. Steam is a menu, a storefront and a content library and it lets you decide how you want to interact. You can have an experience almost identical to current Xbox dash where you get content promoted to you, you can have an experience where it is simply a menu unless you chose to enter the store or something in the middle.
So long as the Xbox dash is locked to a combined storefront/menu you'll get grumbling.
I personally hate being promoted to (I know what I want and am generally very aware of content available be it games, films, music, etc) and figure I'm paying for premium service so I'm in the grumbling camp for example.
Nealand Liquor
Member
But I use live as a functional tool to choose the stuff I want. Also navigating live isn't hard or difficult at all, bumper buttons toggle categories quickly and easily. I can't see how that is even remotely problematic.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Doesn't really bother me. I would like them to be more targeted towards my tastes however.
Yeah, I stopped using my 360 after a year with NXE.
Devilgunman
Member
I want to see only my contents on my dashboard. Why can't they keep content promotion in the Store? Oh, that's right. They are adds.
The issue for those complaining (like me) is that there are better designs to access content without the clutter of simultaneous promotions. Yes you can work around it (I do so every time I use my Xbox) but you're still working around something. It's not unworkable but there are better options / designs available - particularly if you don't include space for ads mixed in with the menu selections.