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[Asmodai]

Before people start talking about how powerful Egyptians were, their main achievements weren't military ones at all. Their empire largely came about because of a vast power vacumn in that region, and through most of its history, there never were comparable superpowers to rival it.

In fact, it took just a tribe of chariot-riding barbarians to almost completely overthrow the ruling royalty.

A bunch of barbarians overthrew the Roman Empire pretty easily as well. Thing is that their power had eroded over time.

The Egyptians were never militarily amazing, but the thing is that there wasn't much competition in their prime. The Greeks weren't a threat yet, the Romans weren't to become a power for centuries, the Egyptians didn't have all that much to contend with.

I agree with you, Nubia was a superpower. Historians do not want to acknowledge darker peoples empires or accomplishments it seems.

Aksum was even more powerful than Nubia, it defeated them as well as controlling what is modern day Oman, Yemen and Lower Saudi Arabia. It's empire went all the way to India.

:lol Yeah, I'm sure all the historians out there are racist, revisionist jerks who don't want to acknowledge the true power of certain civilizations. Because the only other explanation is that YOU, some random guy on the internet, doesn't know what he's talking about! Clearly the former is more likely.

As I said earlier, Egypt is only a possible contender for superpower status because at their HEIGHT, there wasn't anyone around to really threaten them. They were easily destroyed when weaker, but then again, that's true of every empire and superpower throughout history.

 

[harSon]

I already gave my definition, "militarily powerful, culturally influential, and financially wealthy".

And there's no point in arguing with points like these:

Egypt and Carthage were empires that at one point, could have controlled extremely populated geographical areas. If Carthage had defeated Rome in one of the Punic Wars, it could have feasibly usurped Rome's position as a superpower.

You make an argument by giving an "If" statement, truly the work of a genius debater!

Egypt dominated a great part of the Middle East and Africa, and also could have invaded Europe if it had wanted to. Invasion probably wouldn't have went so well, but it COULD have if it wanted to, unlike the empires you cited.

Egypt and Carthrage gained less area through military acquisition than most of the empires I named. You also supply another hypothetical statement as backing to your argument, how exactly does a nation being capable of invading another mean anything? Canada could invade the United States :lol

As others have stated, there's more to being a super power than military might.

 

[Lebron]

Ancient Egypt had a flying machines and light bulbs, so they win.

*puts on conspiracy hat*

 

[Shapingo]

:lol Yeah, I'm sure all the historians out there are racist, revisionist jerks who don't want to acknowledge the true power of certain civilizations. Because the only other explanation is that YOU, some random guy on the internet, doesn't know what he's talking about! Clearly the former is more likely.

As I said earlier, Egypt is only a possible contender for superpower status because at their HEIGHT, there wasn't anyone around to really threaten them. They were easily destroyed when weaker, but then again, that's true of every empire and superpower throughout history.

You talk about revisionist history but then you personally make the decisions on who qualifies as as superpower based upon circumstances that you decide?!?

In your opinion what makes Nubia or Aksum not a superpower? Do you consider the Persian Empire to be a superpower even though the Greek one existed at the same time.

 

[tonkatsu_ramen]

If black people have it so rough in Russia why do they continue to illegally enter the country?
I mean if its for the economic opportunity surely they can go to other countries that are not as racist?

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

I heard Ethiopia was a pretty powerful empire back in the day.

 

[ultim8p00]

Africans had no qualms hunting down people from different tribes/ethnic groups (blacks or European explorers/sailors) and selling them for profit. It became quite a business in some parts of the continent, actually. This only came to a stop when the Scramble for Africa erased the middle man.

I don't know exactly what you are trying to imply here but you are aware that slavery was not exclusive to Africans right? Europeans sold each other for money too, and not only did it become a business in some parts of the continent, it became a sport too.

 

[Pterion]

If black people have it so rough in Russia why do they continue to illegally enter the country?
I mean if its for the economic opportunity surely they can go to other countries that are not as racist?

Whoa, hold on a sec. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them are legal immigrants, often students. But what do I know?

 

[Funky Papa]

I don't know exactly what you are trying to imply here but you are aware that slavery was not exclusive to Africans right? Europeans sold each other for money too, and not only did it become a business in some parts of the continent, it became a sport too.

It shows =P

 

[Enosh]

I don't know exactly what you are trying to imply here but you are aware that slavery was not exclusive to Africans right? Europeans sold each other for money too, and not only did it become a business in some parts of the continent, it became a sport too.

wait what?
sport?
where?

 

[ultim8p00]

It shows =P

Ha, I saw your explanation. Nvm lol.

wait what?
sport?
where?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator

Although it was not exclusively for slaves, the majority of Gladiators were slaves captured solely to fight and entertain the audience.

 

[Enosh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator

Although it was not exclusively for slaves, many slaves were captured solely to fight, or to win their freedom.

doh and there I tough you meant the sport of capturing slaves
from what i understand a lot of gladiators were either criminals or free men who sold themself into slavery to become gladiators, since there was a lot to gain

 

[SomeDude]

I heard a lot of it is due to the fact that ethnic russians were pretty much dieing out. I think they've had a population decline of about -500,000 for the past 10 years.

 

[ultim8p00]

doh and there I tough you meant the sport of capturing slaves
from what i understand a lot of gladiators were either criminals or free men who sold themself into slavery to become gladiators, since there was a lot to gain

Not really. Being a Gladiator sucked ass. Most Gladiators were slaves or captured prisoners. Even if you became famous, you were still not considered worthy like a free man. There are a few exceptions to this of course, and there were even generals that fought as Gladiators, but yeah it sucked for most people. Life expectancy was around 18-24years old. The chances of surviving your first match were about 1/4.

I heard a lot of it is due to the fact that ethnic russians were pretty much dieing out. I think they've had a population decline of about -500,000 for the past 10 years.

Yep I was reading about this somewhere too. They are dying out pretty fast. Good ridance to those that happen to be racist fucks.

 

[Enosh]

Not really. Being a Gladiator sucked ass. Most Gladiators were slaves or captured prisoners. Even if you became famous, you were still not considered worthy like a free man. There are a few exceptions to this of course, and there were even generals that fought as Gladiators, but yeah it sucked for most people. Life expectancy was around 18-24years old. The chances of surviving your first match were about 1/4.

yeah that's why there are fucking wall crawings of gladiators all over pompey, there were fans for them, there were rival groups each supporting one type of gladiator and they fought each other over who is better, just like moder day soccer fans
if you became famous as a gladiator you were preaty much a celebrity

and I don't know where you got your chances of survival from, gladiators rarely actualy killed each other in combat, since training one was very expensive and you can't have them die all the time. gladiator fight were a cheography, there were specific classes of them that were all balanced out against each other and there were specific moves to be used that took a long time of training, death was an exception and actualy had a biger chance occuring outside the arena after a bad wound

gladiators had a lower status than citizens yes, but this comes from the fact that in order to become one they had to become slaves, beacose of some legal thingy, iirc

that's professional gladiators. The criminals given a half broken sword and shield and then throwen into the arena were there to die

 

[Blackace]

If black people have it so rough in Russia why do they continue to illegally enter the country?
I mean if its for the economic opportunity surely they can go to other countries that are not as racist?

What are the numbers of Africans illeagally entering the country?

 

[black_13]

What did you guys thing racism was only in the US? It's every where. Every country generally has a few select minority group that are more common to racism.

Honestly in this day and age, I think there is way more racism towards middle eastern people than any other group.

 

[Blackace]

What did you guys thing racism was only in the US? It's every where. Every country generally has a few select minority group that are more common to racism.

Honestly in this day and age, I think there is way more racism towards middle eastern people than any other group.

I doubt anyone in here believed that racism was only a US thing or that anyone thinks that the world is a wonderful peaceful place full of rainbows and puppies...

However, I think the fact that people aren't just calling them names or refusing jobs or whatever, but are actually forming groups to harm them is the big overall issue..

 

[djdac]

Please tell me. A very popular Russian TV host is black, I forget her name though. She's not bad looking!

Melyssa Ford is half black & russian.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Slavery still exists in Africa btw

 

[Calculon]

Slavery still exists pretty much everywhere.

 

[Asmodai]

You talk about revisionist history but then you personally make the decisions on who qualifies as as superpower based upon circumstances that you decide?!?

In your opinion what makes Nubia or Aksum not a superpower? Do you consider the Persian Empire to be a superpower even though the Greek one existed at the same time.

My opinions are consistent with the historical version of things. I use the official definition of a superpower, not my own. Some superpowers are indisputable: the Roman Republic, Roman Empire, Han Dynasty, Mongol Empire, British Empire, United States, Soviet Union, etc. At their height, those were all superpowers. It could be argued that other civilizations are superpowers.

The Persian Empire, at some points, could have been considered a superpower. It's all about the time period. In the 18th century, the United States wasn't a superpower. In the 21st century, it definitely is. At one point, Carthage was most definitely NOT a superpower (when conquered by Rome). But during the Punic Wars, when it rivalled Rome, it could be argued to be a European superpower.

The definitions of superpower change. Today, a superpower has to have global projection of military power. Obviously back in ancient days that wasn't possible.

Conquering a state that was once , or will be, a superpower does NOT necessarily make the conquering power a superpower. If that was the case, the Gallic barbarians would have been the most powerful superpower of the ancient European world, seeing as they sacked Rome.

For Egypt, the reason it could be considered a superpower is because it was around for SO long that at some points, there wasn't much competition around. Of course when they were getting conquered by the Greeks or Romans they were no longer a superpower. But at say 1500 BC, were there many civilizations more powerful than the Egyptians? Not really.

 

[Blackace]

Slavery still exists in Africa btw

I don't really understand the point of that fact... And Africa is a biiiiig place. Doesn't happen in ALL of Africa.

And even if it does, it doesn't make it ok for mobs of people to attack someone..

I mean is there a point behind that fact?

 

[Blackace]

My opinions are consistent with the historical version of things. I use the official definition of a superpower, not my own. Some superpowers are indisputable: the Roman Republic, Roman Empire, Han Dynasty, Mongol Empire, British Empire, United States, Soviet Union, etc. At their height, those were all superpowers. It could be argued that other civilizations are superpowers.

The Persian Empire, at some points, could have been considered a superpower. Time is huge. At one point, Carthage was most definitely NOT a superpower (when conquered by Rome). But during the Punic Wars, when it rivalled Rome, it was definitely a European superpower.

Thing is, the definitions of superpower change. Today, a superpower has to have global projection of military power. Obviously back in ancient days that wasn't possible.

Conquering a state that was once , or will be, a superpower does NOT necessarily make the conquering power a superpower. If that was the case, the Gallic barbarians would have been the most powerful superpower of the ancient European world, seeing as they sacked Rome.

For Egypt, the reason it could be considered a superpower is because it was around for SO long that at some points, there wasn't much competition around. Of course when they were getting conquered by the Greeks or Romans they were no longer a superpower. But at say 1500 BC, were there many civilizations more powerful than the Egyptians? Not really.

I think the term super-power is something that was coined during the cold war in the 80s and basically meant might. So really all you are saying is about the mightest empire at any given time... not anything else, from trade to science..

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

I don't really understand the point of that fact... And Africa is a biiiiig place. Doesn't happen in ALL of Africa.

And even if it does, it doesn't make it ok for mobs of people to attack someone..

I mean is there a point behind that fact?

Are you talking to me or the guy above your post?

 

[Blackace]

Are you talking to me or the guy above your post?

you..

Just I don't really know how that fact relates to anything that has happened in Russia.. Maybe I read in to it wrong..

 

[Asmodai]

I think the term super-power is something that was coined during the cold war in the 80s and basically meant might. So really all you are saying is about the mightest empire at any given time... not anything else, from trade to science..

Not necessarily only the most powerful state. Both the United States and the Soviet Union were considered superpowers. There might even be room for three superpowers at one time, especially in ancient times where regions of the world were isolated from each other far more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpower

Especially if 3 or more countries today had significant nuclear arsenals, they could all be classified as superpowers.

That said, the basic definition is the most powerful empire at the time. None of the empires that other dude cited were even close. His incorrect definition was basically "any regional power", which is far more in line with a great power. Though some of the civilizations he cited wouldn't even qualify as that most likely.

 

[Blackace]

Not necessarily only the most powerful state. Both the United States and the Soviet Union were considered superpowers. There might even be room for three superpowers at one time, especially in ancient times where regions of the world were isolated from each other far more.

But Russia was no where near an economic power like the US or other countries.. really it just comes down to might. The term superpower just means might at the very root of it.. which is why using the term superpower is a skewed view of history..

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

you..

Just I don't really know how that fact relates to anything that has happened in Russia.. Maybe I read in to it wrong..

People were just talking about slavery in Africa in the past tense.

Although human trafficking is a problem in Russia and Eastern Europe, showing that the quality of life there isn't that great, which makes people there turn to things like joining Neo-Nazi groups.

I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at. The thread was already derailed a long time ago from what happened in Russia to the definition of a superpower (including the tired plane meme) and there was nothing racist behind my comments. I suppose I am a racist despite living with black people who have come from Eastern Europe and Africa.

I guess that's your call.

 

[harSon]

But Russia was no where near an economic power like the US or other countries.. really it just comes down to might. The term superpower just means might at the very root of it.. which is why using the term superpower is a skewed view of history..

The world is viewed through the victor's lenses.

 

[Asmodai]

But Russia was no where near an economic power like the US or other countries.. really it just comes down to might. The term superpower just means might at the very root of it.. which is why using the term superpower is a skewed view of history..

Nukes kind of mess things up. The Soviet Union at certain points did rival the economic capacity of the United States. Sure, it didn't match it, but it was a strong number 2.

Right now of course the Russian economy is horrible, not even in the top ten globally.

That said, they have enough nukes to wipe out humanity, so I would say that's enough to be reasonably considered a military superpower. Not an economic one, that's for sure.

 

[Blackace]

The world is viewed through the victor's lenses.

I am a history major so I know that, but to deny the impact that some of these of these great empires had just because they didn't go out and kick ass is a bit silly...

 

[harSon]

I am a history major so I know that, but to deny the impact that some of these of these great empires had just because they didn't go out and kick ass is a bit silly...

I actually agree with you

 

[Blackace]

People were just talking about slavery in Africa in the past tense.

Although human trafficking is a problem in Russia and Eastern Europe, showing that the quality of life there isn't that great, which makes people there turn to things like joining Neo-Nazi groups.

I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at. The thread was already derailed a long time ago from what happened in Russia to the definition of a superpower (including the tired plane meme) and there was nothing racist behind my comments. I suppose I am a racist despite living with black people who have come from Eastern Europe and Africa.

I guess that's your call.

que? no one called you a racist.. just asked what the point of that tidbit of info is..

or I called you a cardholder in the KKK your call

 

[Blackace]

I actually agree with you

Is it that shocking?

 

[Asmodai]

I am a history major so I know that, but to deny the impact that some of these of these great empires had just because they didn't go out and kick ass is a bit silly...

Some of them never really had the opportunity to kick ass. The Han dynasty in China didn't have as many regional powers to conquer as the Romans did, but historians don't "deny" their influence or anything.

Not sure what your meaning is there.

 

[harSon]

Is it that shocking?

No, I meant to say that I was agreeing with you, didn't mean to phrase it in a way to make it seem like an unlikely occurrence.

 

[Blackace]

Some of them never really had the opportunity to kick ass. The Han dynasty in China didn't have as many regional powers to conquer as the Romans did, but historians don't "deny" their influence or anything.

Not sure what your meaning is there.

And most historians don't deny the influence of Mali Empire as well..

While I admit it is far from my area of study, I have seen it talked about as a great empire of its time.

 

[industrian]

I heard a lot of it is due to the fact that ethnic russians were pretty much dieing out. I think they've had a population decline of about -500,000 for the past 10 years.

Their population is declining around 200,000-250,000 every year. The end of the Soviet Union was a catastrophe for the Russians. They went from a near-perfect education system and universal healthcare to shit almost overnight.

 

[agrajag]

Whoa, hold on a sec. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them are legal immigrants, often students. But what do I know?

This is true, most of them are students. And there aren't many Africans living in Russia at all. I would be very surprised if any of them are illegals.

 

[masud]

Why would anyone outside of the eastern block illegally immigrate to fucking Russia?

 

[Mattlikewhoa]

Why would anyone outside of the eastern block illegally immigrate to fucking Russia?

Good question...

Also I remember watching a Ross Kemp episode on Russia...that shit was bananas and it showed a lot of what we are talking about...

 

[Nachkebia]

Theories that bubble that Russians are less racist than Americans is maaajor bull crap.

Why would anyone outside of the eastern block illegally immigrate to fucking Russia?

even from fucking eastern block, take Georgia for instance, kids are learning english and other foreign languages I doubt that anybody from current or future generation will emigrate to Russia, specially after the nasty war that Russians played in Georgia....

 

[OptimoPeach]

First of all, I am a Russian, and I'm not scary at all...Third, everyone in Moscow has been assaulted at least once, not just black.

I guess that makes you the exception that proves the rule then.

 

[Nachkebia]

I guess that makes you the exception that proves the rule then.

it also explains why none of the previously soviet country's want to friend them :lol