Their problems are serious and obvious but Nintendo will keep on doing exactly what it's doing now. The only real question is whether their next console gimmick will take off. The Wii's waggle to play worked out for them whereas the Wii U tablet controller flopped. If they hit with their new gimmick, it will hide all of the issues murdering them now for a few years. If they miss, which they likely will, good fucking luck, Nintendo.
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After today, can we officially confirm that third parties are done with Nintendo?
- Thread starter Empyrean Heaven
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Their problems are serious and obvious but Nintendo will keep on doing exactly what it's doing now. The only real question is whether their next console gimmick will take off. The Wii's waggle to play worked out for them whereas the Wii U tablet controller flopped. If they hit with their new gimmick, it will hide all of the issues murdering them now for a few years. If they miss, which they likely will, good fucking luck, Nintendo.
ambar_hitman
Member
Problem is that the console is slightly more powerful than PS360 but is lot different in architecture and significantly weaker than PS4Bone. Means current gen titles wont be easier and cheaper to port and last gen titles have to be tweaked to work on Wii U, which is again costly. Then Wii U didn't exactly set charts on fire, so the games wont even sell enough.
Cant blame 3rd parties here. Nintendo jumped the gun with Wii U. They should have released a comparable console to PS4Bone. You cannot skip gens every time and succeed.
Cant blame 3rd parties here. Nintendo jumped the gun with Wii U. They should have released a comparable console to PS4Bone. You cannot skip gens every time and succeed.
Petrae
Member
Fixed that for you.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Idk why anyone thought it would be different this gen. The main reason they got ditched last gen was that their console wasn't able to keep up with the others. It sure as hell wasn't for lack of install base. WiiU is no different this gen in being effectively a slightly better then last gen console. The best case scenario, had WiiU sales been greater, was that they would still be getting most of the cross-gen stuff. But even that would have dried up soon as we transition fully into new-gen in 2015. True current-gen games like Arkham Knight and Witcher 3 would have never been able to be on WiiU and by the end of next year every big multiplatform game is gonna be like that.
With few exceptions, probably not, but it would help their software output if they keep going alone with their hardware, so there would not be need for two Mario Karts, 2D/3D Marios or Smash Bros, this resources could be invested in new/old franchises. 4DS/4DS TV+ is the way to go.
And_Gignac
Member
So? The Wii was super profitable in its later years whn it only had Just Dance as its main, third-party seller. Meanwhile you have the Playstation and the Xbox divisions losing money even with all this magical, "third party licenses" money.
My point is that licensing is an inconsequential resource of cash when your own, first party games are selling well, so third party independence should be something Nintendo must aim for.
DidntKnowJack
Member
That gif is silly because no matter what, Nintendo is doomed.Oh my god, look at how doomed Nintendo is:
Oh. OH. Ok, nevermind.
This just made me realise how good a Wii U port of Dark Souls 2 could have been. On the fly inventory management via the game pad would have been a game changer for PVP
metalslimer
Member
Well here is the current 3rd party lineup in North America for the 3DS
I mean it's not Wii U levels, but Nintendo has to worry about this as well.To be fair Nintendo's own lineup for the device seems to be dwindling as well with their focus on Wii U.
I mean it's not Wii U levels, but Nintendo has to worry about this as well.To be fair Nintendo's own lineup for the device seems to be dwindling as well with their focus on Wii U.
LegendofLex
Member
I never said anything about not bringing those ports to Wii U being in any way the wrong decision - just that Wii U does not fit the "ports on everything" business model that third-parties rely on for their big budget games. That is a true statement, is it not?
Where I find the third party approach to Nintendo consoles baffling is that they think that there is any point in trying to homogenize their offerings across diverse devices. Xbox 360, PS3, and core PC gaming are all more similar to each other than Wii was to any of them. I realize Wii U was Nintendo's effort to make something that was not really that different from Xbox 360 and PS3, but Nintendo has never ever ever really found success that way (so why would they start now?).
If you were going to be successful on Wii, you needed to make games for the Wii audience. That wasn't going to suddenly change on Wii U. So it's no surprise that the modern third-party "everything will be ported to everything" business model doesn't work there. That's all. This is a huge problem faced by 3DS as well, with the caveat that more people are willing to bring their small games to that space.
No qualitative judgment - when your game development approach is so all-in in terms of human resources and budgetary investment, you need to bring it to platforms that contribute significantly to your bottom line. Though, of course, I may not really be happy as a consumer with the results of this business model, they are clearly doing a pretty good job at it, even if a pretty significant portion of the gaming population isn't really being fed (by them, or even by Nintendo at this point).
It always surprises me how people act like 3rd party sales are completely unrelated to 1st party sales. If a console has no 3rd party games, it is going to sell less. That limits the potential sales volume of 1st party games. So yeah, even if they made literally 0 dollars from third party game sales themselves for an entire generation, they still make money from them because those 3rd party games help get the console into more people's hands so they can buy 1st party games.
But X is coming EXCLUSIVELY to Wii U, though!
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Fun fact:
Approximately 300 million pieces of first party software were sold on the Wii. Out of approximately 900 million pieces of software total. I'm sure you can do the math about third party software sales
And this is with mostly C/D-team efforts.
Whoah. You got a citation for those numbers? That's a lotta third-party sales.
Also, people dismissing third-party games seem to be forgetting that third-party games = money, money = more first party support from Nintendo.
The big wildcard is if shareholder pressure becomes too great and Iwata is ousted. With Nintendo haemorrhaging cash, it's not the time to bet everything on a new gimmick. Will investors stay silent if Nintendo gives the Blue Ocean gamble another shot?
Well, this is a thread about third party support.
Also, "more" may be true however better is very subjective.
moltonasty
Member
All these posts about how "I only buy Nintendo games on Nintendo systems" are hillarious.
Metal Gear, Contra, Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, etc etc. All of these series either started on Nintendo consoles or had popular entries in their series on Nintendo consoles. All third party titles which are today more associated with PS and Xbox.
But yeah, ok, Nintendo systems are just for Nintendo games.
BTW, I love my Wii U regardless.
Metal Gear, Contra, Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, etc etc. All of these series either started on Nintendo consoles or had popular entries in their series on Nintendo consoles. All third party titles which are today more associated with PS and Xbox.
But yeah, ok, Nintendo systems are just for Nintendo games.
BTW, I love my Wii U regardless.
Poohblaster
Member
If you want to know how Nintendo is doing pay attention to their earnings reports and stock value. Their stock value is low like Gamecube era low. Their earnings have been in the red and their predicted earnings are marginal. In brighter news they have tons of cash reserves so they can stay afloat for a very long time. The WiiU is a cool console too bad not many people are buying it.
DidntKnowJack
Member
1. REmake REmaster announced. No mention of a Wii U version.
2. Details on Assassins Creed Rogue emerge. No Wii U version. (Though i thought we already knew this.)
metalslimer
Member
I mean I don't think this thread is anything particularly new, but the lack of an Assassin's Creed when there is a specific last gen version, and the lack of an HD remaster that was originally a big Nintendo exclusive.
DQ is very well represented on Nintendo platforms
I don't know, looks like a pretty solid lineup to me. Between these games on the 3DS,and Bayonetta 2, Smash, and Captain Toad on the Wii U I think Nintendo is in a good position for the rest of the year.
Nintendo is not doomed. You have to have been living under a rock if you truly believed Nintendo would get alot of love from 3rd parties. Nintendo, the console, anyways will always be a first party console, unless Sony or MS drop outta the console race, than 3rd parties will grudging back Nintendo consoles. There portable market has alot of 3rd party games, since they got no competition other then mobile games. Wii U will mostly be used for my Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Donkey Kong games.
news that REREmake is not coming to Wii U and AC:Rogue not coming as well.
Steve Youngblood
Member
There is perhaps a discussion worth having in regards to whether or not the situation could ever improve, or to argue whether -- given their position -- third party support even matters much to the Wii U at all. However, any reasonable discussion about that is never going to get off the ground so long as people on either side of the discussion react to titles just to make the same stupid and/or hyperbolic points that are devoid of any insight that they'd make in any of a dozen other semi-related threads.
And when I say both sides, I'm willing to concede that there are certainly trolls that probably aren't very interested in playing games on Wii U to begin with but just take some sort of odd pleasure in seeing Nintendo struggle. However, that's not the only side that sucks and ruins these discussions. I really don't feel like combing through this thread to salvage it, but if Nintendo fans think that there are some assholes on this forum who get off on seeing Nintendo fail, then I'd also argue that the jackasses who just post "another Nintendoomed thread!?" or some variation therein to every thread that is remotely critical of Nintendo are also a problem.
So, in short, fanboys suck. And all platforms have them.
Argh, this notion is what hurts them so much. There are interesting 3rd party games on Nintendo consoles. There were a ton on the Wii and there is a good amount on the Wii U. The problem is mainstream multiplatform games the demographic of which doesn't like Nintendo consoles because they're "kiddy". Blaming Nintendo only fans for not buying enough of these games is stupid. Same holds for blaming Nintendo for not moneyhatting those games. Paying for full development and marketing? For games whose customers don't buy your console? Would you do that?
Reading the OP, it seems the new Assassins Creed announced today is not coming to WiiU.
Polioliolio
Member
Huh? My buying practices based on my opinion are the worst?
I'm subjectively stating that I don't like their games and won't miss 'em if they're gone.
Same with REmaster.
Father_Brain
Banned
The scary thing is that Nintendo really cannot rely on third parties at all for their future gaming hardware. Western third parties are a lost cause aside from the odd family-targeted franchise (Lego, Just Dance, Disney Infinity, Skylanders), and while they may still be able to get a smattering of key Japanese titles from the likes of Capcom/SE/Atlus/Level-5, JP third parties are only going to continue to shift towards mobile.
They're going to have to be prepared to go it alone, and I really doubt that their software is enough of a draw to pull that off even with cheaper hardware.
They're going to have to be prepared to go it alone, and I really doubt that their software is enough of a draw to pull that off even with cheaper hardware.
The line that third parties are done with Nintendo certainly does get bandied about but I do think the Wii U may be the lowest point ever. The Wii, please, just because you didn't see Fallout 3 or Bioshock on the console means that support was lacking, maybe there was an overabundance of party games and motion controlled dreck but that isn't a lack of support. The Gamecube had heaps of third party support and while some of that faded as the system fortunes sank, it was never that precarious. Even the N64 with its legendary software droughts still had ardent support from Konami, Acclaim and Midway and even some tokens from Capcom and Namco. Shit, no matter how rough and tumble a Nintendo system was, EA was always there. Them walking was a truly unprecedented nadir in third party relations and the rot has gotten so bad that only the barest of support is left. Shit, even Ubisoft has been like, well, we tired, it is up to Nintendo to lead.
Petrae
Member
They're the biggest third-party publishers out there right now. Of course, there are others-- Bethesda, Capcom, Konami, Deep Silver, Square-Enix, and Bandai-Namco-- but I'm not seeing much, if any, WiiU support from any of them, either.
Yes, but it would be nice if people didn't have to get the Wii U as a second console.
Even N64 had some decent 3rd party support. Even Gamecube had EA games on it.
It doesn't have to be a platform just for Nintendo games, it is a major flaw.
What are the first party games coming out the rest of the year? The only one I can think of is Pokémon, and man, that list looks terrible.
Don't forget Take-Two
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
If only the thread was about multiplatform games...
metalslimer
Member
Super Smash Bros 3DS
Pokemon
This is pretty much what I expected though. Nintendo has cycles with their systems and the 3DS looks like it's in the part where Nintendo moves development to another system.
Cornbread78
Member
Pretty much confirming that 3rd party titles on Nintendo systems do not push systems. People buy Nin. products for Mario, Zelda, and their first party titles. Outside of Just Dance. Name 1 3rd party title that pushes systems? They don't. But yes, as another posted pointed out, they sold millions of sub $20 shovelware titles back in the Wii days, but 1st party is and will continue to be their bread and butter in regards to sales.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
Yeah, I'm so glad I'll have less games to choose from. Makes it super easy to keep buying only Nintendo games.
LegendofLex
Member
I agree, but not for the reasons you gave. A console will sell based on the quality + quantity of content that its audience wants to play. The problem with third-party sales on Nintendo platforms is that many of the games third parties have released on Nintendo platforms (particularly since the DS and Wii successes) have fallen in one of the following categories:
1. Games that do not align in any way with first-party offerings
If you watched the rise of the FPS, Sony's dominance of JRPGs, and other industry trends, you might have noticed that the types of games that dominate a platform are the types of games that the first-party platform maker is investing in heavily. This applies to Nintendo platforms, too. So why would the kinds of games that Sony/Microsoft dominate be a good fit for Nintendo consoles in the first place?
On the flip side, Nintendo could definitely do more to invest in the genres they've historically neglected. So it's not on the shoulders of third parties entirely - they just have shown poor judgment in the titles they release on Nintendo consoles. A good example: Square-Enix releases a Deus Ex remake on Wii U, but not the family-friendly Disney-themed Kingdom Hearts 1.5?
And, no, Nintendo, you're not off the hook for RPGs just because you're making Xenoblade. You need a variety of content for your audience for it to be viable for them or for third parties, not just one game.
2. Low-effort, low-quality games for "casual gamers"
This one should speak for itself. Wii Sports was obviously not shovelware; it was a major, strategic title for Nintendo and was the face of their console's brand. Even Kinect Sports/Adventures did well when they were given the appropriate level of effort. But you didn't see this level of effort from most "casual games" on Wii/U. That audience is culturally beneath most of the game industry.
It's like EA/Activision/Ubisoft are the only third parties out there.
Forgot that Smash is coming out this year (it's just the WiiU version that got delayed?), that still isn't a pretty list, but it's at least presentable.
Petrae
Member
That's really what it boils down to. It's not necessarily that WiiU isn't worth buying, but many gaming consumers will have to buy a PS4/XBO first in order to experience the wealth of third-party games that we're seeing and will continue to see throughout Gen8.
After saving some more cash and reloading the wallet, then WiiU is a possibility, as a secondary console for Nintendo games whenever they arrive.
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