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[-viper-]

You mean people with an opinion other than your own?

I give no more of a shit about these Avatar kids ethnicity than I gave a shit last week when I watched a New Zealander play Robin Hood.

Does that mean I'm part of some 'Racism in Cinema' defence force?

Saw this in the cinema a week ago and it's probably the most disappointing film I've ever seen. Total garbage.

They should have called it 'ENGLAND VS FRANCE: THE BATTLE'.

 

[Korey]

Hence the usage of "white." They are obviously Japanese -- no one would assume otherwise. Your quote literally confirms that anime characters are "white" in their origins. All one has to do is look at their facial features and hair color, this isn't rocket science.


I literally have no clue what you're saying. Learn to communicate more effectively.

I'd stop at this point if I were you.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Yes. The bigger you are, the more visible you are, the more influential you are, the more responsible you have to be. There is just about NO industry where this holds true than media.

Any business/industry that reaches a critical mass of public exposure to the extent that Hollywood has, defines cultures. The scale and reach of their product absolutely substantiates why this is an issue in the first place.

And let me expound that I don't feel like this should be an call to "JUMP WHITEY". The lack of media representation is a particularly sore spot for Asians (I'll not drill into that unless we go there). Is Paramount/Hollywood in general committing some hell-forsaken rules that deserves incendiary rage and retaliation? I sure don't think so. However, they are manifesting what's seen by many as a shortcoming in our social dialogue and quite frankly, complaints outlined in the article have not been unreasonable.

Which is what makes comments from people in thread to "stop complaining" especially myopic and arguably more irritable than the original subject for some others here.

I don't disagree, i just don't think it applies here. My basis for grave misrepresentation comes only when dealing with history and culture.

And if your barometer for this is lower, then you sure as hell should also complain about movies that are in english like Gladiator for example.

I just don't see what you see, and i completely understand why a movie made where it is made its made the way it is. Also understand why as part of a minority you feel like Hollywood should go out of their way to make asian stars of all kinds, etc untill there were equal measures of ethnicities. Pipe dream regarding globalization.

 

[WillyFive]

Uh. Yes?

It's an American cartoon. It's not any more of an "anime" than Justice League was.

I was under the impression that anime was an art style. Samurai Jack and Avatar simply used that style.

Oh well.

 

[JDSN]

Who are the "closet racists" you are referring to? The people you quoted?

I hope not, otherwise there goes my ability to look at the mirror without feeling disgust.

 

[Korey]

Also understand why as part of a minority you feel like Hollywood should go out of their way to make asian stars of all kinds, etc untill there were equal measures of ethnicities. Pipe dream regarding globalization.

Can casting minorities based on minority characters really be considered "going out of their way"?

 

[LRB1983]

Okay, I lied, I did come back to this thread.



Yes. You're correct. However they're probably not the Aryans you're thinking of. The term 'Aryan' was heavily distorted in the 1800's by English speaking countries to mean someone who fits the Nordic white archetype.

When historical texts speak of "Aryans" they're referring to the Indo-Iranian languages and people. This doesn't mean that the Persians at one point had blonde hair and pale blue eyes. However, they may harbor features people perceive as 'white' since the majority of races in Mesopotamia are technically Caucasoids.



You really think the facial features of anime characters look more white than Japanese?!
Seriously?

Well, I was refering to nomadic tribe they come from what we now today as Russia and Ukraine. I know they weren't as "Hitler's" standards but not as OP thinks, for sure.

 

[Meier]

I'd stop at this point if I were you.

Or will the big bad boogey man get me? I can't help but laugh at this sort of post. :lol Anyone is free to believe whatever they want.

You will never -- ever -- convince me that a standard anime character in a non-stylized series is not modeled after a caucasian. If you think otherwise, you're wrong in my book just as I might be wrong in yours.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Is it really "going out their way" to cast minorities based on minority characters?

If they weren't the better actors, if they weren't what the Director wanted then yes it is, when we are talking about characters that headline a 200 million dollar movie.

If Shyamalan casted the white kid for the main part, it's because he thought that kid was the best choice.

Had he negated him because he wasn't dark enough, then it would've been wrong. Goes both way of course. Let's not forget we are talking about a kids show.

 

[oracrest]

should have played Aang

Is that a NeoGAF shirt?

 

[Meier]

If Shyamalan casted the white kid for the main part, it's because he thought that kid was the best choice.

As I recall from when the casting was done, this kid had either none or absolutely minimal experience acting at all. He is a complete unknown who knew some martial arts. Kind of a neat story really.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Or will the big bad boogey man get me? I can't help but laugh at this sort of post. :lol Anyone is free to believe whatever they want.

You will never -- ever -- convince me that a standard anime character in a non-stylized series is not modeled after a caucasian. If you think otherwise, you're wrong in my book just as I might be wrong in yours.

The reason you can't be convinced is because you're determined to be an out-of-it clod.


http://www.matt-thorn.com/mangagaku/faceoftheother.html

 

[big ander]

Is that a NeoGAF shirt?

Orange-blue FUUUUUUUUUU

 

[SuperAngelo64]

Or will the big bad boogey man get me? I can't help but laugh at this sort of post. :lol Anyone is free to believe whatever they want.

You will never -- ever -- convince me that a standard anime character in a non-stylized series is not modeled after a caucasian. If you think otherwise, you're wrong in my book just as I might be wrong in yours.

Okay, only posting this one more time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FsaReX4ej0

If you're not convinced after that... well then....hmm

Is that a NeoGAF shirt?

Very first thing I thought :lol

 

[WrikaWrek]

We can't lose sight of what we are talking about, this ain't a "the only good black part went to crocodile Dundee" situation.

Ain't it funny, it's gotta be blue eyes mate. Even if their skin is dark, it's GOTTA BE BLUE. Even the cartoon is to blame for the kind of shit you guys talk about it.

 

[Korey]

If they weren't the better actors, if they weren't what the Director wanted then yes it is, when we are talking about characters that headline a 200 million dollar movie.

If Shyamalan casted the white kid for the main part, it's because he thought that kid was the best choice.

Had he negated him because he wasn't dark enough, then it would've been wrong. Goes both way of course. Let's not forget we are talking about a kids show.

That's an interesting take.

I understand what you're saying, but consider this. Would you say that white people are, in general, "better actors" than actors of color then? Since white actors tend to take more "roles meant for minorities" than the other way around, and that's what you say is happening here.

For example, if an Asian or Black person had auditioned for the lead role of James Kirk in the recent Star Trek movie, and he was by far the "better actor", do you think he might be cast over Chris Pine?

Or, if not, why do you think that the "better actor" argument only applies when white actors are hired over minorities?

 

[Amibguous Cad]

I guess I never saw Ang as being a specific race, he kinda looks white, and he has an american accent, so I don't have an issue with his casting. My deal with The Last Airbender is that it doesn't seem to have the same light hearted vibe that the cartoon had. The trailer looks way too serious.

Yeah, Aang doesn't look too incongruous being white. But to this fan of the show Katara and Sokka just look weird.

 

[Lambtron]

GAF can be ridiculous sometimes.

You know this is one of the few times I support GAF. This is clearly racist, and it's ridiculous to just accept it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Okay, only posting this one more time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FsaReX4ej0

If you're not convinced after that... well then....hmm



Very first thing I thought :lol

He's not interested in listening, obviously. You can sum up the argument in one sentence; "Anime characters don't look white to Japanese people, they look Japanese."

If you refuse to accept that cultures other than your own exist and don't perceive things the same way, you'll never understand the answer to the question.

 

[Davidion]

I don't disagree, i just don't think it applies here. My basis for grave misrepresentation comes only when dealing with history and culture.

And if your barometer for this is lower, then you sure as hell should also complain about movies that are in english like Gladiator for example.

I just don't see what you see, and i completely understand why a movie made where it is made its made the way it is. Also understand why as part of a minority you feel like Hollywood should go out of their way to make asian stars of all kinds, etc untill there were equal measures of ethnicities. Pipe dream regarding globalization.

The point regarding why as a part of a minority I feel like Hollywood should go out of their way, yada, is the very essence behind the complaints in the article. It's not because Hollywood isn't casting Asians left and right everywhere (Hey, if that we're the case, we'd be pretty happy), but that there were opportunities to cast them in roles that fit their descriptions perfectly and it was passed on; all of this within the context of the already preexisting underrepresentation. That's the genesis of this entire debate in the first place.

And it does irks me in other cases too, the most recent example being the casting of Jackson as Nick Fury in Iron Man. I can't particularly find a meme pic confusing enough to express my sentiments regarding that one. A counterpoint to that would be the casting of Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin; I can see how finding a beetter fit would be hard, especially since I don't recall ever seeing a white actor with his physique.

I do sympathize with the Asian perspective a little more, three-guess as to why. And though I'm not one of these letter-writers types or even much of an activist, I do get a little irritated at the whole underrepresentation problem as a whole. I'd like nothing better for representation to be even and more accurate in Hollywood, period. If that were in place, I'd hope that people would be less nitpicky about specific instances x-race actors being cast into y-race character roles.

 

[WrikaWrek]

That's an interesting take.

I understand what you're saying, but consider this. Would you say that white people are, in general, "better actors" than actors of color then? Since white actors tend to take more "roles meant for minorities" than the other way around, and that's what you say is happening here.

For example, if an Asian or Black person had auditioned for the role of James Kirk in the recent Star Trek movie, and he was by far the "better actor", do you think he might be cast over Chris Pine?

It's like the Brazillians. If every team in Brazil always has lines around the block for those entry trainings, obviously by matter of odds there are more Brazillian soccer players around the world playing at a higher level that take away spots from people native to those countries.

Odds man. Regarding Star Trek, i don't know man, if i was the director i would. But considering the crazy ass Star Trek fanbase, i'm guessing in the casting sheet it said "You have to be caucasian etc"

Can't see them saying in the casting sheet "Any ethnicity" to play Kirk.

 

[WrikaWrek]

The point regarding why as a part of a minority I feel like Hollywood should go out of their way, yada, is the very essence behind the complaints in the article. It's not because Hollywood isn't casting Asians left and right everywhere (Hey, if that we're the case, we'd be pretty happy), but that there were opportunities to cast them in roles that fit their descriptions perfectly and it was passed on; all of this within the context of the already preexisting underrepresentation. That's the genesis of this entire debate in the first place.

And it does irks me in other cases too, the most recent example being the casting of Jackson as Nick Fury in Iron Man. I can't particularly find a meme pic confusing enough to express my sentiments regarding that one. A counterpoint to that would be the casting of Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin; I can see how finding a beetter fit would be hard, especially since I don't recall ever seeing a white actor with his physique.

 

[Korey]

It's like the Brazillians. If every team in Brazil always has lines around the block for those entry trainings, obviously by matter of odds there are more Brazillian soccer players around the world playing at a higher level that take away spots from people native to those countries.

Odds man.

So you are saying that the "better actor" argument only works when white people are hired over minorities. Fair enough.

Sarcasm aside, I see what you're saying, but I think that casting directors know exactly what they're doing when they racebend in favor of white people. And the "better actor" argument is entirely smoke and mirrors.

Odds man. Regarding Star Trek, i don't know man, if i was the director i would.

No you wouldn't. And I wouldn't either. My point is that "better actor" doesn't (or rarely) works. And doesn't apply at all in this situation. It's misdirection from a bigger problem.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The point regarding why as a part of a minority I feel like Hollywood should go out of their way, yada, is the very essence behind the complaints in the article. It's not because Hollywood isn't casting Asians left and right everywhere (Hey, if that we're the case, we'd be pretty happy), but that there were opportunities to cast them in roles that fit their descriptions perfectly and it was passed on; all of this within the context of the already preexisting underrepresentation. That's the genesis of this entire debate in the first place.

And it does irks me in other cases too, the most recent example being the casting of Jackson as Nick Fury in Iron Man. I can't particularly find a meme pic confusing enough to express my sentiments regarding that one. A counterpoint to that would be the casting of Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin; I can see how finding a beetter fit would be hard, especially since I don't recall ever seeing a white actor with his physique.

I do sympathize with the Asian perspective a little more, three-guess as to why. And though I'm not one of these letter-writers types or even much of an activist, I do get a little irritated at the whole underrepresentation problem as a whole. I'd like nothing better for representation to be even and more accurate in Hollywood, period. If that were in place, I'd hope that people would be less nitpicky about specific instances x-race actors being cast into y-race character roles.

Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury is because Ultimate Nick Fury is modeled after Samuel L Jackson. (see above pic)

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

If a fictional characters race is an important factor in their story then yeah the race of the actor matters.

but let be clear though

I want to see more ethnic people in starring roles

 

[Davidion]

Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury is because Ultimate Nick Fury is modeled after Samuel L Jackson. (see above pic)

Ahhhh, I see. Makes sense now. Haven't followed the comics industry as of late, had no idea.

 

[gutter_trash]

the problem is that people the classification of Caucasian too often gets too narrowed to Whites as White-White

when in fact the classification for Caucasians are quite broad

it's the post colonial purists who try to narrow the whiteness of Caucasians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

the read up on usage in the United States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race#Usage_in_the_United_States

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Something about various Marvel characters turning black

Dave Chappelle should play Rick James' Hulk in the Avengers.

 

[SuperAngelo64]

I just figured out the reason why Aang is played by a white kid...

Spoiler

........

 

[WrikaWrek]

No you wouldn't. And I wouldn't either. My point is that "better actor" doesn't (or rarely) works. And doesn't apply at all in this situation. It's misdirection from a bigger problem.

Kirk as a character demands mainly charisma. If Star Trek was a new joint, a black actor could certainly be picked. Problem there is different.

 

[Enosh]

And the "better actor" argument is entirely smoke and mirrors.

would say the same thing when it is the other way around?

 

[Freshmaker]

"By Blacks, For Blacks" has nothing to do with it. If it's done right then people will buy into it. To use a game as an example, GTAIV. I dont think anybody cared whether or not the game was created by a white man or a black man. It came across as believable so tons of people bought into it.

It is hard to resist an Oscar worthy story, possibly the greatest story ever told by humans to humans...

DC did turn Lois Lane Asian in that Superman Doomsday movie tho.

 

[karasu]

We can't lose sight of what we are talking about, this ain't a "the only good black part went to crocodile Dundee" situation.

Ain't it funny, it's gotta be blue eyes mate. Even if their skin is dark, it's GOTTA BE BLUE. Even the cartoon is to blame for the kind of shit you guys talk about it.

I think all members of the water tribe have blue eyes.

 

[spiderman123]

I wish the roles were atleast accurate. But now that it's done, I just hope that the actors do a good job and the movies are good.

 

[Parallax]

So you are saying that the "better actor" argument only works when white people are hired over minorities. Fair enough.

Sarcasm aside, I see what you're saying, but I think that casting directors know exactly what they're doing when they racebend in favor of white people. And the "better actor" argument is entirely smoke and mirrors.

everytime i hear the word racebend, i just stop caring, regardless of the point being made.

 

[Zoramon089]

Ain't it funny, it's gotta be blue eyes mate. Even if their skin is dark, it's GOTTA BE BLUE. Even the cartoon is to blame for the kind of shit you guys talk about it.

Are you serious? Their eyes are blue, BECAUSE THEY'RE WATER BENDERS. Notice how their clothes are blue too? And Earth benders where brown and green and have brown eyes. Fire benders where red and orange and have orange eyes. So NO, it isn't the same thing

 

[Meier]

The reason you can't be convinced is because you're determined to be an out-of-it clod.


http://www.matt-thorn.com/mangagaku/faceoftheother.html

Your 'proof' is someone's opinion. I am confident I could easily find a differing opinion that was written on a website or in a book. Would it make you change your mind?

 

[Sol..]

I feel for asians on this one. We [black folk] had some resistance getting into mainstream films too. But it aint that bad these days. it's quite pathetic that hollywood is keeping asians so far behind. Yall talk about avatar and prince of persia. What about 21? That shit was cold blooded.

and Jamie Foxx in kane and lynch makes you think they are going to go into some kind of Miami Vice type situation. Fuck that.

 

[WrenAndroid]

 

[justjohn]

Wasn't there something like 40% Asian white marriage In that interracial thread? Seems to me like these two races get on pretty well ,not to mention I'm sure most Asian people are proud of the fact that whites see them as the model minority. Perhaps they should convince whitey to be a bit more open with his movie casting?

"C'mon massa, make me a bit sexy in your movies, we don't gangbang or sling crack like them darkies, plus we've practically given you free reign to absolutely fuck our women senseless; surely we've earnt this right. Right?"

 

[harriet the spy]

You really think the facial features of anime characters look more white than Japanese?!
Seriously?

While I am firmly on the side that thinks that using a white actor for that Avatar kid, Gyllenhaal for PoP , and so on, is extremely annoying, insensitive, and yea, to some extent racist, facial features of anime characters certainly don't look any more japanese than they look white or whatever (I am not saying they look 'white', though). Most _not all_ are as non descript as they could come. Of course, the fact that a fair amount of characters have blonde eyes and blue eyes doesn't help your side of the debate.

And that youtube video that keeps being posted is so embarrassingly unintelligent that anyone that posts it should hide in shame.

 

[Trojita]

Fucking hell.

100% ethnic Persians are WHITE. They only started having darker skin after Arabs invaded the country and intermarriage started occurring. There are still populations of people in Iran that have porcelain skin and blue eyes.

This

Plus I read this article on Monday and the person who wrote it has no idea what they are talking about. The "Prince" also isn't from Persia in the lore :lol

The article also commented that there were plenty of kids to choose from for the lead of Avatar. Was the person who wrote this article at the auditions? No they weren't because this kid was the only decent auditioner and that was the reason he got the job. It would be different if they through a white person as the main with no martial arts experience and doesn't even fit the part.

 

[justjohn]

:lol

 

[Amakusa]

No, not really. "All of the characters being white" only has unfortunate implications to other white people. People from white dominated countries perceive anime characters as white because that's what they are used to.




http://www.matt-thorn.com/mangagaku/faceoftheother.html

^
Very good read

 

[.la1n]

I agree with the The Last Airbender comments and is the reason I will not see the movie, say what you will. I do however love the tv series, a must watch.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Your 'proof' is someone's opinion. I am confident I could easily find a differing opinion that was written on a website or in a book. Would it make you change your mind?

Except that person's opinion is a well-reasoned, factually supported argument, whereas your argument is "they look the same as how I draw white people." You're determined to impose your cultural bias on something that comes from someone else's culture. They don't look like white people to Japanese people, who in case you forgot, are the ones drawing anime.

Reiteration: You're an out of it clod who intentionally has no interest in understanding the point because understanding the point would make you wrong.

 

[Angry Grimace]

While I am firmly on the side that thinks that using a white actor for that Avatar kid, Gyllenhaal for PoP , and so on, is extremely annoying, insensitive, and yea, to some extent racist, facial features of anime characters certainly don't look any more japanese than they look white or whatever (I am not saying they look 'white', though). Most _not all_ are as non descript as they could come. Of course, the fact that a fair amount of characters have blonde eyes and blue eyes doesn't help your side of the debate.

And that youtube video that keeps being posted is so embarrassingly unintelligent that anyone that posts it should hide in shame.

You have it a lot closer to correct than Meier does; they are supposed to look "stateless"; what Meier would consider to look "Japanese" would be an ethnic stereotype to actual Japanese people.

I can't really think of that many blonde, blue eyed anime characters that aren't SUPPOSED to be white people; I can't help but think you're all thinking about Edward and Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist; Amestris is supposed to be a directly analogue of Germany.

 

[Meier]

Except that person's opinion is a well-reasoned, factually supported argument, whereas your argument is "they look the same as how I draw white people." You're determined to impose your cultural bias on something that comes from someone else's culture. They don't look like white people to Japanese people, who in case you forgot, are the ones drawing anime.

Reiteration: You're an out of it clod who intentionally has no interest in understanding the point because understanding the point would make you wrong.

Do you understand the ridiculous double standard you're making? His point is a, "factually supported argument" where he refutes other arguments that were "factually supported" in the minds of those who wrote them previously. His opinion is his opinion. EVERYONE can find something to back up their opinion. He shoots down the concept that the Japanese want to be white but that was someone else's opinion (many someone elses for that matter). What makes their opinion wrong and his right? Do I agree with them? No. Do and did people? Yes.

I think you're wrong. You think I am. Okay, that's fine. Feel free to do so. The end result is I laugh at you and others like you who are absolutely up in arms and probably seething in rage at someone else disagreeing with your opinion so you throw out insults and quote a random writer's opinion or post embarassing links to Youtube videos that are amateur and assinine. Keep up the good fight. You'll feel better knowing that you're "right" in the end.

 

[WillyFive]

Are you serious? Their eyes are blue, BECAUSE THEY'RE WATER BENDERS. Notice how their clothes are blue too? And Earth benders where brown and green and have brown eyes. Fire benders where red and orange and have orange eyes. So NO, it isn't the same thing

Not that they are water members, but part of the tribe. Sokka is not a water bender, he's just a regular human.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Do you understand the ridiculous double standard you're making? His point is a, "factually supported argument" where he refutes other arguments that were "factually supported." His opinion is his opinion. EVERYONE can find something to back up their opinion. He shoots down the concept that the Japanese want to be white but that was someone else's opinion (many someone elses for that matter). What makes their opinion wrong and his right?

I think you're wrong. You think I am. Okay, that's fine. Feel free to do so. The end result is I laugh at you and others like you who are absolutely up in arms and probably seething in rage at someone else disagreeing with your opinion so you throw out insults and quote a random writer's opinion or post embarassing links to Youtube videos that are amateur and assinine. Keep up the good fight. You'll feel better knowing that you're "right" in the end.

I love when people backed into the corner try to fall back on the "you are obviously angry" argument. It's cute.

People telling you that you are wrong doesn't automatically mean they are out to get you or angry. I'm just telling you you're wrong because you are as wrong as wrong gets.