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[Sinatar]

I still don't get the ocean line.

When you first see Tom Zane in the tutorial nightmare sequence, he reads you one of his poems where he says something like "under the lake is an ocean green, I have been to it's shores".

Hm.

 

[TheGoldenGunman]

And this may be obvious, but I only just twigged it: "Barbara Jagger" isn't a million miles from Baba Yaga. Just as Baba Yaga lived in a hut with chicken legs, Barbara Jagger lives in Bird Leg Cabin.

Nice spot!

 

[adamsapple]

I still don't get the ocean line.

When you first see Tom Zane in the tutorial nightmare sequence, he reads you one of his poems where he says something like "under the lake is an ocean green, I have been to it's shores".

Hm.

People mention Wake uses too many metaphores in his writing ..

It was not a Lake, It was an Ocean could mean that he's not trapped in a fixed body of area but he's free since oceans usually represent freedom (for pirates at least).

 

[Dries]

Also a good one from the OT:

my take on the ending
SPOILER

Spoiler

There's no lighthouse in brightfalls.

the ending ties the game back to the original nightmare sequence at the beginning of the game.

the reason he turns cauldron lake into an ocean is so he can introduce the lighthouse (safest place on earth?) setting to destroy the darkness once and for all.

I might be completely wrong, but that's my understanding of it.

True to the mystery genre the ending also remains a mystery.

 

[derFeef]

Sam Lake mentioned the Baba Yaga thing in one of the making of´s but he sadly did not explain it more.

 

[squicken]

FIN.

Reading this was better than the story in the game, really. Why do you think Zane's wife cheated on him btw?

Too many things were left vague, and the narrative flow just never took hold. The diver suit was just off. It didn't look right, and was more silly than surreal.

I was somewhat disappointed with the game overall, but it's still okay. I hope the guy playing with the commentary reports back. I'm guessing since we didn't see either Hartman or Nightengale die, they are both still alive out there.

 

[LiK]

sooo, i guess when he said Ocean, he made a sequel or something?

 

[dralla]

i think he turned the lake into an ocean to save alice. he said zane fucked up because he didn't balance the good/evil. so in order to save alice [good] he needed to expand the lake [evil]

 

[sgnhh]

A "derivative hack," yes. But "bad" is completely subjective. The dude's published six novels in seven years, and each one has outsold the previous and been a huge bestseller. I don't know any "good" writers who've ever accomplished such a thing. Besides, if all of the things that happen in the game come from Wake's imagination, we know he doesn't have an original bone in his body. Nearly everything in the game comes from other writers' and filmmakers' works.

If Wake isn't a bad writer, then the folks at Remedy must be laughing their asses off at us.

I think the concept that he's a hack writer can also be backed up by Nightingale constantly referring to him as other well written authors. If I remember correctly, it happens whenever Nightingale comes face-to-face with him. Specifically, I know he refers to him sarcastically as Stephen King, Bret Easton Ellis, maybe Hemmingway, and a couple others.

 

[Dries]

i think he turned the lake into an ocean to save alice. he said zane fucked up because he didn't balance the good/evil. so in order to save alice [good] he needed to expand the lake [evil]

Also a good one.

 

[wRATH2x]

That's an interesting theory, especially the part about the stereotypes which is true.

Another I found on the official board :

Zane lost his wife. She, unlike Alice, actually died. The darkness took advantage of this and told Zane that he could bring her back by writing her into existence. Alan explains that this is not possible. The story must flow properly, characters need to be true to their character, balance must be maintained, etc. Zane broke the rules by trying to write himself and his wife into a "happily ever after" existence. The darkness used his vulnerability and took over (as editor) his story. By the time he realized it, it was too late. The Barbara that he brought back was heartless and only darkness existed where her heart was. We're not told how he knew about Alan or how he able to write his clicker memory. We're also not told how there could be a second clicker in existence, as Alan gave his clicker to Alice. Since Tom eventually managed to escape the darkness, the darkness needed a new writer to complete its story and write it into existence. This is where Alan comes in. The darkness needed a way to manipulate Alan into writing a manuscript that it could edit and use to take control of everything. It uses Alice as a hostage. Alice is not actually dead, but being held captive by the darkness. Alan, however, is not originally aware of this. When he finally regains his memory, he realizes that it was the darkness that told him Alice had drowned and that he could use his manuscript to change what happened. Since Alan never finished his manuscript, he now realizes that he can still prevent the story from ending as a horror where everyone dies. He has the darkness release Alice, but he remains imprisoned in the cabin to finish the story. He realizes that there is a lot of work to be done, but he now realizes what he has to do to stop the darkness (of which we're not really told). Mr. Scratch looks to be the person that will be interacting with people in the real world as Alan finishes his story. In other words, Alan will be writing about himself in his story. Mr. Scratch is the self that will be acting out what Alan writes.

I think he nailed it. It's very close to what we've been told in the game actually.

Well that makes sense, can't wait till the DLC.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Haven't read any of this thread...yet.

So, I got this from the ending:

Spoiler

Alan trades places with Alice, and still has to write himself out of the darkness, while Cynthia Weaver, the lamp lady, passes the torch to Rose, who apparently has been saved from the touch of darkness like she was, and Agent Nightingale is trapped in the dark realm, but not necessarily gone.

Unless I'm missing something, that does sound about like what happened. I'm guessing that the dark presence is just going to come back stronger and want Rose and Alice who has escaped.

edit: covered even though I thought spoilers were open here.

 

[Veelk]

A question about chapter 6:

Up until this point, the darkness hasn't really been trying to kill you. Scare you/capture you/hurt you, but never entirely kill you. Which is why I found it unnerving. All those cares it's flinging around? It COULD kill you at any time, but it doesn't. It's fucking around with you. But then it's explicitly stated that the Darkness is trying to kill you. And I'm just not understanding why it doesn't. Why can't it throw about 100 Taken at me at once? Better yet, why doesn't it simply throw a train cart at me and call it a night?

I have my own theory, but I feel it's pretty flimsy. The Darkness has bad eye sight. I mean, it resides in a like, where visibility is low, so it's only when it's close to Alan Wake can it really throw stuff accurately (like axes or objects), but from far away, it's not accurate, which is why Alan is walking up a hill with shit falling from the sky but none of it hitting him. A friend is insisting that it's 'just written that way' but I don't buy it. Wake outlined the importance of having a logical set of events, with how Zane got fucked over by the dues ex machina he pulled. So writing "But the darkness just couldn't kill him" shouldn't fly. Thoughts?

 

[Shake Appeal]

He talks at several points about how he has to write a proper horror novel: he can't cut corners, he can't write a story that isn't coherent and satisfying, blah blah. It's important that nobody is safe, that the protagonist can die, but he shouldn't. There has to be plenty of danger, plenty of close calls, but ultimately, because he changes the ending (again, within reason, preserving the balance Zane was lazy about), he survives (in what way, and where, we don't know for certain yet) and his wife is freed.

So he's writing that the Dark Presence is trying to kill him, but only in fair ways. In a good horror movie or novel, you can't just wipe out the protagonist by dropping a train on him, at least not if you want to satisfy plot conventions (and your audience). So the 'possessed' Jagger can't just wipe Wake out, she has to play by the rules he is setting.

 

[conman]

Up until this point, the darkness hasn't really been trying to kill you. Scare you/capture you/hurt you, but never entirely kill you. Which is why I found it unnerving. All those cares it's flinging around? It COULD kill you at any time, but it doesn't. It's fucking around with you. But then it's explicitly stated that the Darkness is trying to kill you. And I'm just not understanding why it doesn't. Why can't it throw about 100 Taken at me at once? Better yet, why doesn't it simply throw a train cart at me and call it a night?

The darkness needs Wake alive. It took advantage of Wake's feelings for his wife in order to manipulate him into writing (making him believe his wife was kidnapped, or that she was dead and he could bring her back by writing). Like the hotel in The Shining, creative energy gives it power. It just needs to motivate him, not kill him.

Presumably, it did the same thing to Tom Zane. Zane ultimately brought his wife back to life, but like in Pet Sematary she came back evil (as "The Editor" Barbara Jagger).

 

[op_ivy]

i'm not sure this has been brought up, but in the opening dream sequence, prior to wake arriving in bright falls, he meets up with a guy who gets killed at the cabin wearing a bright falls letterman jacket. who is this individual? he seems to know wake, but i cant make out the name he tells him, and how would he know this man before the events of the game?

 

[Peff]

i'm not sure this has been brought up, but in the opening dream sequence, prior to wake arriving in bright falls, he meets up with a guy who gets killed at the cabin wearing a bright falls letterman jacket. who is this individual? he seems to know wake, but i cant make out the name he tells him, and how would he know this man before the events of the game?

It's Clay Steward, the writer of The Alan Wake Files, the book that comes with the CE. Alan and him are connected every night in their dreams, they meet each other (that's why they're familiar) and eventually die before waking up.

 

[op_ivy]

It's Clay Steward, the writer of The Alan Wake Files, the book that comes with the CE. Alan and him are connected every night in their dreams, they meet each other (that's why they're familiar) and eventually die before waking up.

ahh, thanks. will likely be a part of dlc or the sequel then i'd imagine

 

[Veelk]

He talks at several points about how he has to write a proper horror novel: he can't cut corners, he can't write a story that isn't coherent and satisfying, blah blah. It's important that nobody is safe, that the protagonist can die, but he shouldn't. There has to be plenty of danger, plenty of close calls, but ultimately, because he changes the ending (again, within reason, preserving the balance Zane was lazy about), he survives (in what way, and where, we don't know for certain yet) and his wife is freed.

So he's writing that the Dark Presence is trying to kill him, but only in fair ways. In a good horror movie or novel, you can't just wipe out the protagonist by dropping a train on him, at least not if you want to satisfy plot conventions (and your audience). So the 'possessed' Jagger can't just wipe Wake out, she has to play by the rules he is setting.

I'd still like an explanation of exactly how or why it's failing. I can buy that it can't be able to kill him if something is preventing it, like my low visibility theory (though I wish there was another theory that wasn't just so...lame). I mean, it's not preserving any balance if it's just saying that it can't kill wake just because. That would be fake tension and bad writing. As Wake said, everything needs a cause and effect, so what is the cause of the Darkness' inability to kill him?

 

[Tokubetsu]

Theres a picture of the Zane in diving suit in the beginning dream sequence on the notice board.

I'd still like an explanation of exactly how or why it's failing. I can buy that it can't be able to kill him if something is preventing it, like my low visibility theory (though I wish there was another theory that wasn't just so...lame). I mean, it's not preserving any balance if it's just saying that it can't kill wake just because. That would be fake tension and bad writing. As Wake said, everything needs a cause and effect, so what is the cause of the Darkness' inability to kill him?

It can't kill him because he wrote it as such. He wrote it so he'd be narrowly avoiding death. Why can't Flocke kill the candidates? Because it's written like that, it just is. Why couldn't Nicholson kill everyone in The Shining? Why were there so many close calls? You have to treat the story just as much about someone writing/finishing a novel (that whole journey) as much as it is an ACTUAL finished story.

 

[Veelk]

It can't kill him because he wrote it as such. He wrote it so he'd be narrowly avoiding death. Why can't Flocke kill the candidates? Because it's written like that, it just is. Why couldn't Nicholson kill everyone in The Shining? Why were there so many close calls? You have to treat the story just as much about someone writing/finishing a novel (that whole journey) as much as it is an ACTUAL finished story.

I only read the book of the shining and have never seen lost, but the main character can't kill them because they put shit in his way, like slamming a door in his face, running away, etc. I don't mind the close calls and stuff, but there still needs to be a logical course of action for them. Which is what I'm asking for, why I offered my bad visibility theory. "Just because that's how it is" is a poor excuse.

 

[stupei]

I only read the book of the shining and have never seen lost, but the main character can't kill them because they put shit in his way, like slamming a door in his face, running away, etc. I don't mind the close calls and stuff, but there still needs to be a logical course of action for them. Which is what I'm asking for, why I offered my bad visibility theory. "Just because that's how it is" is a poor excuse.

Maybe, but it's also the excuse that the game itself gives:

Stephen King once wrote that nightmares exist outside of logic, and there's little fun to be had in explanations they are antithetical to the poetry of fear. In a horror story, the victim keeps asking ‘Why?' but there can be no explanation, and there shouldn't be one. The unanswered mystery is what stays with us the longest, and it's what we'll remember in the end.

 

[Shrennin]

Just beat it and it was pretty confusing. With that confusion, came the type of story I love - a story that requires thinking about and possibly allowing the players to formulate their own theories with the events of the game (at least until the next episode releases clearing up things presumably).

With that said, this is definitely my favorite theory so far:

Tom Zane was a writer in the 70s who moved to Bright Falls with his wife. His wife, his muse, cheated on him, and he succumbed to the darkness that was present in Bright Falls. When it tried to write itself free, using the form of his wife as a mouthpiece, he realised, and tried to destroy the darkness, or at least suppress it. When he worked out that the darkness made what he wrote manifest itself with form, bending reality, he decided to write himself out of history, with the exception of his shoebox and clicker. In his place, he wrote the young Alan Wake, a boy who grew up with Tom Zane's stories filling his life, taking the place of an actual reality. Alan met Alice, wrote books - presumably based on those Tom Zane had ideas for - and then, one day, ran out of the pre-created ideas that Tom Zane had written for the character. The writer's block was, essentially, Alan reaching the end of what Tom Zane had created for him.

So, the Wakes take a holiday in Bright Falls, and, as happens, history repeats itself. Alan is lured into a trap by Dr Hartman - who wants Alan in his clinic to further his career, to push his own profile and sell some books - but this only serves to confuse the matter of what is real and what isn't. Alan swiftly realises that the only way to fix what's happened - in that, he had accidentally and unintentionally begun to set the darkness free - is to rewrite it again. Not having a mind for plotting - as his ideas are gone - the best Alan can create is a facsimile of himself, the Mr Scratchy character, but he can free Alice. He writes Bright Falls into what he thinks it should be, an idyllic town where DeerFest happens, Tor and Odin dance around, and everybody knows everybody else. Alice is alive, and Alan writes that he died diving in to save her.

FIN.

There are some problems I have with this theory though:

(1) I don't know where the idea that Barbara cheated on Tom came from.

(2) Rose is shown at the end holding a lantern like Weaver (Rose is pretty much Weaver whereas Alice is Barbara) which kind of implies that the darkness is not gone.

(3) If Alan could simply write the darkness away, why couldn't Tom?

(4) This is not so much a problem with that theory as an observation - Nightingale looked like he was trapped in some sort of darkness (I didn't get a good look at him in the end) in the diner.

 

[Shake Appeal]

(1) I don't know where the idea that Barbara cheated on Tom came from.

(2) Rose is shown at the end holding a lantern like Weaver (Rose is pretty much Weaver whereas Alice is Barbara) which kind of implies that the darkness is not gone.

(3) If Alan could simply write the darkness away, why couldn't Tom?

(4) This is not so much a problem with that theory as an observation - Nightingale looked like he was trapped in some sort of darkness (I didn't get a good look at him in the end) in the diner.

(1) I think it's during the "burn away the words" section as you're trying to rewrite the cabin into existence: you can overhear the argument (though at the time I thought the argument was between Alan and Alice...). To me, it's not clear if Barbara actually "drowned", or if Tom "cut her heart out" before any of the Dark Presence stuff, and in fact that act what was released the Presence in the first place. I need to replay that section with subtitles on.

(2) I'm not sure the darkness can be destroyed. This sort of ties into your third question: Zane failed because he tried to write a perfect happy ending that was unsatisfying given what came before. He tried to get everything back, to fix everything, and there was none of the necessary balance and coherency of a well-told horror story. Wake, realizing this, seems to sacrifice himself in some way, staying trapped in the lake in exchange for the safe return of Alice to the surface. He hasn't destroyed the darkness, but he has kept it at bay with a satisfying, balanced ending (for now).

And yeah, I noticed (4) too. We know very little about Agent Nightingale at this point, though the surveillance photos in his hotel and a snippet in the Alan Wake Files suggest he knows a hell of a lot more than he should, under the circumstances. Other than the fact he's an alcoholic, lost his partner, and was sucked out of the police station by the Dark Presence, I have no clue about what's up with that guy.

Edit: also, that theory says that Hartman just wanted Wake to write some books for him, but it's more sinister than that, because Hartman knew Zane back in the day, and obviously knows more about Cauldron Lake than he let on (he was out there on a boat, remember, when Wake fell in) either to Mott (who is fairly clueless) or to Alan.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Just beat it and it was pretty confusing. With that confusion, came the type of story I love - a story that requires thinking about and possibly allowing the players to formulate their own theories with the events of the game (at least until the next episode releases clearing up things presumably).

With that said, this is definitely my favorite theory so far:



There are some problems I have with this theory though:

(1) I don't know where the idea that Barbara cheated on Tom came from.

(2) Rose is shown at the end holding a lantern like Weaver (Rose is pretty much Weaver whereas Alice is Barbara) which kind of implies that the darkness is not gone.

(3) If Alan could simply write the darkness away, why couldn't Tom?

(4) This is not so much a problem with that theory as an observation - Nightingale looked like he was trapped in some sort of darkness (I didn't get a good look at him in the end) in the diner.

My best guess is Rose has become the new Cynthia because she's been touched by the darkness. As someone else said earlier as well, Alan most likely saved Alice by balancing the forces out. Either the lake is now an ocean, bigger and stronger or it's manifested in someone (Nightingale is my guess given how scary he looked in the window...and why else would he still be in Bright Falls?).

 

[Shake Appeal]

My best guess is Rose has become the new Cynthia because she's been touched by the darkness.

Also, Rose has the same relationship of hero worship and infatuation with the Wakes as Weaver did with Zane and Jagger. And it was Zane who demanded Cynthia become the "Lamp Lady" guardian of Bright Falls, just as Wake seems to have written Rose as her successor. This literary doubling/mirroring of past and present is rampant.

 

[Tokubetsu]

(1) I think it's during the "burn away the words" section as you're trying to rewrite the cabin into existence: you can overhear the argument (though at the time I thought the argument was between Alan and Alice...). To me, it's not clear if Barbara actually "drowned", or if Tom "cut her heart out" before any of the Dark Presence stuff, and in fact that act what was released the Presence in the first place. I need to replay that section with subtitles on.

(2) I'm not sure the darkness can be destroyed. This sort of ties into your third question: Zane failed because he tried to write a perfect happy ending that was unsatisfying given what came before. He tried to get everything back, to fix everything, and there was none of the necessary balance and coherency of a well-told horror story. Wake, realizing this, seems to sacrifice himself in some way, staying trapped in the lake in exchange for the safe return of Alice to the surface. He hasn't destroyed the darkness, but he has kept it at bay with a satisfying, balanced ending (for now).

And yeah, I noticed (4) too. We know very little about Agent Nightingale at this point, though the surveillance photos in his hotel and a snippet in the Alan Wake Files suggest he knows a hell of a lot more than he should, under the circumstances. Other than the fact he's an alcoholic, lost his partner, and was sucked out of the police station by the Dark Presence, I have no clue about what's up with that guy.

Edit: also, that theory says that Hartman just wanted Wake to write some books for him, but it's more sinister than that, because Hartman knew Zane back in the day, and obviously knows more about Cauldron Lake than he let on (he was out there on a boat, remember, when Wake fell in) either to Mott (who is fairly clueless) or to Alan.

I beat it a few hours ago and It definitely seems like there something weird with the argument at the end. At first it IS Alice and Alan and then once you burn away the words and reach the next area, it becomes Tom and Barbara. It fits the mirroring a bit. Maybe Alan rewrote that part?

 

[les papillons sexuels]

The games entire story becomes extremely convoluted if you think about it.

1.We don't actually know at what point the manuscript begins or ends, nor do we know at what point alan wake returns to finish it. Does it start with the very first nightmare sequence? Does alan wake's escape begin with the car crash, or under the dam? When alan wake returns to finish writing, was that also written into the story, and so on.

2.The actions of T.Z are extremely vague. In all likely hood, alan wake created the character to serve as a guide. His history and the facts of surrounding him can't be taken at face value, either that or alan wake wake isn't the actual writer. My reasoning for this is derived from the shoebox loophole.

If it's true that zane wrote in the loophole, then the story isn't Alan wake's, it's zane's story of alan wake. Zane would've created alan wake as the character he is. There's no way that zane could know about the clicker, or that alan wake would even go to brightfalls unless he wrote it in, and the darkness made it come true. If this is true, then alan wake is the story thomas zane wrote to solve his dilemma.

Otherwise, alan wake wrote in the loophole as an action of Zane's, this throws out any validity of zane's history or actions, but it allows alan wake to foreshadow the clicker from the earlier chapter, keeping in line proper story telling methods. It's also an experiment of alan's so that he can write in another loophole later on (such as the lighthouse). But this also raises questions of all the other characters in the game, which are real and which are fake.

...

so those 2 things bring up a tun of unanswered questions.

1. what's part of the story and what's not?
2. where does the written manuscript begin and end?
3. who's actually writing the story?
4. which characters are fictional, which are real (if any)?

To be honest I'm really starting to lean on the idea that Alan wake is actually the solution that thomas zane developed.

 

[Tokubetsu]

The games entire story becomes extremely convoluted if you think about it.

1.We don't actually know at what point the manuscript begins or ends, nor do we know at what point alan wake returns to finish it. Does it start with the very first nightmare sequence? Does alan wake's escape begin with the carcrash, or under the dam? When alan wake returns to finish writing, was that also written into the story, and so on.

2.The actions of T.Z are extremely vague. In all likely hood, alan wake created the character to serve as a guide. His history and the facts of surrounding him can't be taken at face value. My reasoning for this is derived from the shoebox loophole.

If it's true that zane wrote in the loophole, then the story isn't Alan wake's, it's zane's story of alan wake. Zane would've created alan wake as the character he is. There's no way that zane could know about the clicker, or that alan wake would even go to brightfalls unless he wrote it in, and the darkness made it come true. If this is true, then alan wake is the story thomas zane wrote to solve his dilemma.

Otherwise, alan wake wrote in the loophole as an action of Zane's, this throws out any validity of zane's history or actions, but it allows alan wake to foreshadow the clicker from the earlier chapter, keeping in line proper story telling methods. It's also an experiment of alan's so that he can write in another loophole later on (such as the lighthouse). But this also raises questions of all the other characters in the game, which are real and which are fake.

...

so those 2 things bring up a tun of unanswered questions.

1. what's part of the story and what's not?
2. where does the written manuscript begin and end?
3. who's actually writing the story?
4. which characters are fictional, which are real (if any)?

Most people seem to be leaning towards Zane being the actual writer here and Alan etc are just his characters. They're real, but only because the darkness makes it so. The only thing with that though, is why would Zane plan this far ahead if he thought his ending would perfect and everything would be okay?


Another bit I'm confused about is Mr. Scratchy. Where did he go? What does he do?

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Most people seem to be leaning towards Zane being the actual writer here and Alan etc are just his characters. They're real, but only because the darkness makes it so. The only thing with that though, is why would Zane plan this far ahead if he thought his ending would perfect and everything would be okay?


Another bit I'm confused about is Mr. Scratchy. Where did he go? What does he do?

Zane never thought his ending was perfect, his only goal is to write himself of the story, and therefore made it seem like he failed so that alan wake could succeed in his place.

If alan wake is now the one stuck writing then tom is free.... maybe?

I mean, what purpose does zane fulfill now that alan has figured out a way to succeed where zane failed?

 

[Tokubetsu]

Zane never thought his ending was perfect, his only goal is to write himself of the story, and therefore made it seem like he failed so that alan wake could succeed in his place.

If alan wake is now the one stuck writing then tom is free.... maybe?

I mean, what purpose does zane fulfill now that alan has figured out a way to succeed where zane failed?

I got a bit turned around, what I was originally trying to get at was this:
So Zane's original ending was happy but not satisfying, this allowed the darkness to completely take Barbara for it's purposes. He catches on, panics? Cuts her heart out but this doesn't do shit so he writes himself out of existence save the shoebox but writes Alan Wake to what end? To defeat the darkness PERMANENTLY? He must have known the presence would have re- awoken when he visited so why bring him to Bright Falls in the first place?

 

[Uncle]

Edit: also, that theory says that Hartman just wanted Wake to write some books for him, but it's more sinister than that, because Hartman knew Zane back in the day, and obviously knows more about Cauldron Lake than he let on (he was out there on a boat, remember, when Wake fell in) either to Mott (who is fairly clueless) or to Alan.

And IIRC, Cynthia had written "Emil made Tom do it" or something to that effect on some wall.


Edit: this is probably coincidental, but it caught my attention none the less. A very old plot synopsis for AW:

Alan Wake is a horror writer whose fiancé was his muse. Whenever he was with her, sleeping by her side, he dreamed the dark dreams of the demented. Now, while I'd be the kind of guy to dump her and run for the hills, Alan not only was in love, but was profiting off of the dreams. His nightmares because the reality of best selling horror novels. But when his fiancé mysteriously disappeared, never to be heard from again, he stopped dreaming. In fact, he was so crushed by the loss that he stopped sleeping altogether. That can make a guy pretty tired and also pretty loopy.

Before too long, he retreated to the sleepy town of Pride Falls in the state of Washington to check into the sleep clinic outside of town. After curing the problem and getting a little bit of sleep, Alan finds and sleeps with a woman that looks eerily like his missing love. Yes, that's pretty messed up. What's even more messed up is that he immediately starts having the dreams again. The problem is, when he begins writing again, the dreams start seeping into real life.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/616/616178p1.html

Does Alan sound a bit more like Tom here than the Alan in the finished product to anyone else..?

 

[Shrennin]

(1) I think it's during the "burn away the words" section as you're trying to rewrite the cabin into existence: you can overhear the argument (though at the time I thought the argument was between Alan and Alice...). To me, it's not clear if Barbara actually "drowned", or if Tom "cut her heart out" before any of the Dark Presence stuff, and in fact that act what was released the Presence in the first place. I need to replay that section with subtitles on.

(2) I'm not sure the darkness can be destroyed. This sort of ties into your third question: Zane failed because he tried to write a perfect happy ending that was unsatisfying given what came before. He tried to get everything back, to fix everything, and there was none of the necessary balance and coherency of a well-told horror story. Wake, realizing this, seems to sacrifice himself in some way, staying trapped in the lake in exchange for the safe return of Alice to the surface. He hasn't destroyed the darkness, but he has kept it at bay with a satisfying, balanced ending (for now).

And yeah, I noticed (4) too. We know very little about Agent Nightingale at this point, though the surveillance photos in his hotel and a snippet in the Alan Wake Files suggest he knows a hell of a lot more than he should, under the circumstances. Other than the fact he's an alcoholic, lost his partner, and was sucked out of the police station by the Dark Presence, I have no clue about what's up with that guy.

Edit: also, that theory says that Hartman just wanted Wake to write some books for him, but it's more sinister than that, because Hartman knew Zane back in the day, and obviously knows more about Cauldron Lake than he let on (he was out there on a boat, remember, when Wake fell in) either to Mott (who is fairly clueless) or to Alan.

Okay, that makes sense. I heard the conversations between Tom and Barbara during the last stage but for some reason I always assumed it was the darkness with the face of Barbara and not actually Barbara (it was late, and I didn't catch any of the hints it may have given, plus I was just done doing the "Gunless Wonder" achievement and that was a pain so I was tensed from that). Those implications are creepy if true about Zane and Jagger.

My best guess is Rose has become the new Cynthia because she's been touched by the darkness. As someone else said earlier as well, Alan most likely saved Alice by balancing the forces out. Either the lake is now an ocean, bigger and stronger or it's manifested in someone (Nightingale is my guess given how scary he looked in the window...and why else would he still be in Bright Falls?).

It actually makes more sense to me if I would have seen Hartman in that window rather than Nightingale because I know Wake didn't like Hartman (and he probably didn't like Nightingale but he despised Hartman) so if Wake would have written anyone in the most horrible of situations you would have thought it would have been Hartman.

The only thing with that though, is why would Zane plan this far ahead if he thought his ending would perfect and everything would be okay?

My guess is that Zane didn't really plan that far ahead - it was all just part of activating his contingency plan if something did go wrong. Alan Wake was most likely the character that would replace Tom Zane so I don't take that as part of any planning, but rather as a balance - if Zane writes himself out, he needs to replace himself.

The shoebox was there in case Wake found himself in the same predicament. This is the part that required any planning in Zane's case. There's also the fact that Zane made Weaver the "lady of the light" in case anything bad happened. I guess Zane most likely knew the Darkness wouldn't be destroyed and he needed to make sure it stayed contained.

The question is how Wake knew to write Zane in as a guide to help Wake get out of the Darkness' grasp.

Also, it was kind of distracting thinking that Zane was a Big Daddy and I its Little Sister.

/:

 

[[Nintex]]

Strange but awesome ending.

I've seen some great theories that I agree with so as a bonus the worst theory I came up with:
Zane is writing a story about a writer(Alan is always 'the writer' in the narrative of the game). The wirter in the book is writing a story within Zane's original story. If you want to add another layer and make it more convoluted you could say that 'a writer(the player/remedy?)' is writing a story about Zane who's writing a story about Alan Wake who's a writer writing a story within the story.

 

[The Librarian]

I hope this story makes more sense after the DLC. Good theories in here though.

 

[derFeef]

Strange but awesome ending.

I've seen some great theories that I agree with so as a bonus the worst theory I came up with:
Zane is writing a story about a writer(Alan is always 'the writer' in the narrative of the game). The wirter in the book is writing a story within Zane's original story. If you want to add another layer and make it more convoluted you could say that 'a writer(the player/remedy?)' is writing a story about Zane who's writing a story about Alan Wake who's a writer writing a story within the story.

I came to that loopy conclusion once, but I hope it´s not that muddy. I do not like any of these theories so far :lol

 

[[Nintex]]

I'm starting to think that Alan might've screwed up the ending and that's why the darkness is still alive/present. It seems that the final scenes show that he 'fixed' everything except the 'plotholes' Nightingale and Rose.

 

[derFeef]

I'm starting to think that Alan might've screwed up the ending and that's why the darkness is still alive/present. It seems that the final scenes show that he 'fixed' everything except the 'plotholes' Nightingale and Rose.

I am not sure the darkness can be destroyed. It exists, no matter what the lake does to art.

I made a list of "possible" layers in this thread back somewhere. But I still have not figured out what is real here. If anything.

 

[Shake Appeal]

The question is how Wake knew to write Zane in as a guide to help Wake get out of the Darkness' grasp.

Zane appears first in Wake's dream in Episode 1 (both as the light and voice, and in various posters littered around the level: when Alan is trapped in the house after Clay is murdered, for example, there's a 'Tom the Poet' poster with the diving suit on the wall). If we accept the timeline as its presented to us, this is just as Alan is arriving in Bright Falls, before he encounters Jagger, before he goes to Bird Leg Cabin, before Alice is dragged into the lake, and before he spends a week unconsciously writing the manuscript that subsequently becomes true. If you believe there's a real, concrete timeline that includes Alan beginning the reality-shaping manuscript after Alice's abduction, Zane was communicating with Wake before the latter started writing.

We know Alan had been suffering from writer's block, that he had been drinking, becoming aggressive, not sleeping well... but we haven't heard about him having Dark Presence-esque nightmares until he falls asleep on the ferry to Bright Falls. In fact, in his opening monologue, he tells us this story begins with the lighthouse nightmare:

"I’ve always had a vivid imagination, but this dream unsettled me. It was wild, and dark, and weird, even by my standards. So yes… it began with a dream."

So I think Zane (and the Dark Presence/Jagger) are able to influence and feed on creative individuals within a limited radius of Bright Falls, or more accurately within a limited radius of Cauldron Lake. When Alan reaches Bright Falls and the lake, both Zane and Jagger are finally able to communicate with him 'In Dreams'... the former apparently to warn him, while the latter in an initially weakened state starts to feed off him (at first, Jagger is only able too appear feebly in the darkened diner corridor).

In this real, concrete timeline, Wake arrives in Bright Falls ostensibly on 'vacation', but actually because his worried wife wants him to meet with Hartman and maybe try to write again, knowing as she does that his frustrated two-year (I think it's two?) period of not writing is destroying their marriage.

On a metalevel, Zane likely wrote just enough about Wake to ensure he would be a viable failsafe who would one day arrive in Bright Falls if required. He makes him a successful and famous writer... but not actually a very good one. The hitchhiker in the lighthouse dream taunts Wake with his foibles, failures, and fears about writing, and I think we should take these seriously. Agent Nightingale is wrong to call him Hemingway, or Chandler, or Joyce... but more accurate when he says Dan Brown. Wake writes tight, metaphor-laden, plot-driven, pulp genre fiction, but he's no 'artist'... That is, Zane wrote enough to give Wake the creative ability he would need, and enough ideas to get by... but once he ran out of these with his last Alex Casey novel The Sudden Stop, Alan became purposeless, an empty vessel of Zane's creation. He's good enough for the task required of him, but not much beyond that. It's almost as if Zane was writing Alan into being in a hurry, or just didn't want him to be too talented...

What's also interesting to me is whether Alice Wake contacted Emil Hartman first or the other way around; this could be crucial. Additionally, what Nightingale knows about Wake, and why he came to Bright Falls (if I had to go out on a wild, baseless limb, Nightingale somehow had access to some part of Zane's writings about Wake, though how this is possible I couldn't guess). Maybe the whole mess of it was written, and so preordained, by Zane (though I think Emil, Barbara, Cynthia, etc. are all very real, and only Alan is a true fictional creation of Zane's)... but if that's the case, his motivations for staging it this way are murky (as they are anyway, along with so many other things). Maybe there's much more to it. Maybe it was an unhappy accident. Why exactly Wake ended up in Bright Falls, and who directed his arrival, is something of a mystery... once you go anywhere past the surface level of "his wife thought the vacation would do him good".

Of course, all this depends on the acceptance of a real, concrete timeline, inside of which Wake's novel Departure exists as a real manuscript that had supernatural powers to control a specific set of events in a set period in the history of Bright Falls (i.e. the events shown in the game). Like les papillons said above, if you don't know when this manuscript begins and ends, or the extent of what it contains, the 'truth' of everything I wrote above is fluid and up for grabs.

But I like to think that 1. There is a real, concrete timeline to things, through and around which the dreamlike, supernatural stuff flows, and 2. Zane wrote Wake into (real) existence, and not the other way around.

 

[derFeef]

Damn Shake, damn good post. Some things though. Nightingale had to do with paranormal stuff as well (his partner died becsuse of stuff like that) in the past and I think he also had some weird dreams which leads him to Alan, or Brightfalls.

Hartman is luring writers to Brightfalls with his books and programs. Alan is just another option. The webisodes are helping here, he even forces Jake to write.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Hartman is luring writers to Brightfalls with his books and programs. Alan is just another option. The webisodes are helping here, he even forces Jake to write.

Yeah, I appreciate his motivations, I'm just curious whether he first called Alice Wake, or she first contacted him. It makes a different in terms of how and why Alan was drawn to Bright Falls. Hartman was Zane's assistant, he clearly knows the power the lake holds, but I'm curious as to whether Alan was determinedly going to come to Bright Falls because Zane wrote it that way, or whether it was more 'accidental', and Alan was just an 'option' for Hartman, as you put it.

If I want my theory to work, Zane wrote it that Wake would come. But did he also write that Hartman would lure Wake there? Or is Hartman a free agent?

Etc. etc.

There are too many questions. DLC and sequel, please.

 

[derFeef]

I think Hartman is free and it all was an "accident". I know it does not work with your theory and I love your theory so far, but goddamnit Zane must be a genius to forsee everything. You can not create a person and just pray that everything comes together as you want it to be. Unless Alan is an exact copy of Zane - but even then... hm.

Something interesting came to my mind. Zane was in love with Cynthia Weaver (or vise versa) - the light lady. And now Rose, who somehow adores Alan, is carrying the light bulp.

 

[Tokubetsu]

I'd really like to know what happened to the main character and the lady in the Bright Falls prequel.

 

[Squall ASF]

I'd really like to know what happened to the main character and the lady in the Bright Falls prequel.

I think it was fairly evident that he became a Taken. I wouldn't feel too optimistic on the chances of the lady surviving, Pretty sure he killed her and stuffed her in the trunk or left her in the forest somewhere.

 

[The Librarian]

Did Alan Wake write in the whole thing about his wife's supposed kidnapper? Or was that something independent of it?

 

[Tokubetsu]

I think it was fairly evident that he became a Taken. I wouldn't feel too optimistic on the chances of the lady surviving, Pretty sure he killed her and stuffed her in the trunk or left her in the forest somewhere.

That's what I figured...I just wish they had appeared in the game somehow. You find her body by a tree trunk or fight him as one of the fast moving infected.

 

[Shrennin]

Shake, I definitely agree with your two points (real, concrete timeline and Wake is Zane's creation).

I also see your point about Wake knowing about Zane - it's still hard to believe a little because the light (Zane) never tells Wake that he's Zane and the pictures of Zane in the diving suit are more credible to your theory as Zane could have been in Wake's mind at a subconcious level.

Just as Zane warned Wake about the events that were about to unfold in Wake's dream, Wake wrote Zane in to be the safeguard for Wake as he was being controlled by the Dark Presence.

I'm not sure about Wake only being Zane's creation - I think it is possible that Alice Wake could have been Zane's creation (as a replacement for Jagger). On the other hand, the replacements for Weaver and Hartman were Rose and Wheeler respectively so that theory doesn't hold up as Weaver and Hartman were clearly not written out of the world like Jagger and Zane were.

 

[fin]

Something interesting came to my mind. Zane was in love with Cynthia Weaver (or vise versa) - the light lady. And now Rose, who somehow adores Alan, is carrying the light bulp.

Yeah I'm thinking this way too. Cynthia was in the same situation as Alice at the end of the game.

Now Alice is in the 'real' and Alan is trapped in the dark. Similar to Cynthia and Tom.

My head hurts...

Great game though, although I think there was too much walking around shooting stuff.

 

[AkuMifune]

I'm just rambling out loud here as I'm trying to wrap my brain around this great game.

I also agree with Shake's assessment, though I think the first Alan Wake created a second Alan Wake (who we play as in the game) while the original Alan Wake (who was created by Zane but grew up outside of Bright Falls) sacrificed himself to the darkness to save Alice in the end, thereby becoming Mr. Scratch, who, like Barbara, is consumed by the darkness. Mr. Scratch is now an evil doppelganger/writer for the darkness, who ret-conned the lake into an ocean at the end, increasing the darkness's influence over the world. So now we have two Alan Wakes cross-writing events that are being created into reality, while Zane, Hartman, Nightingale, Rose and Weaver are stuck in limbo.

?...Anything there?

The fact that we can have these kinds of discussions just cements how wickedly devious this plot is. Awesome.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Certain things are definitely clicking a bit better going through this next play through. I just realized the guy who wrote the Alan Wake Files, Clay Steward, is the same guy in your dream who gets the axed.