Wiggum2007
Junior Member
This video sold me on the game, the only thing I'm not so fond of is the player character's voice. Though I suppose I felt the same way when I started Mass Effect but got used to it after a few hours of play.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Alpha Protocol - Walkthrough 2 - Why can't all RPG's look as fun you?
- Thread starter bte200
- Start date
Turbo said:Not to entice the argument any further but I have to comment on this post for a little bit.
To be honest, mass effect is a new and original IP by Bioware, in which they have to add the story and background for thier characters and settings. KOTOR was thier best game (in my opinion) and that's partially because they are adding another lore into the universe of Star wars. They already had the background for the story and even had many different alien species introduced before the game came out. They did what they did best... putting a responsive enviroment for you to play in, in other words interacting with beings from star wars.
In that aspect, mass effect needs a lot more groundwork before it even reaches that level. And honestly :lol , I don't know if it will be supported for that long. I mean face it, mass effect is an awesome game in it's own rights but it won't always be supported as it is right now. In the future, Bioware is going to make another IP, it's a given. Sorry for the rant.
Anyways, how does this relate to Alpha protocol? Well the game has an advantage since it doesn't really put too much of an emphasis on story but more on interaction rather than anything. I am only judging from the videos that were shown, and so far the whole spy wavelenght would only entice people to choose how they want to play as a spy.
I will be honest, that is a lot of fun there. Comparing this game to mass effect won't yield as much results as anyone thinks.
Actually putting the focus on interaction is even tougher than the main questline structure. And also more time consuming.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
If this controls and runs as nicely as Mass Effect did on the PC for me (60 fps + mouse) than that combat will definitely not be as clunky as the videos show, where they are obviously limited by the controller and ~30 fps.
I'm really anticipating this game. The videos have me turned on and I loved KotOR 2 as much as, if not more than the first. I have faith in Obsidian. (Now if only NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer would release on Steam...)
I'm really anticipating this game. The videos have me turned on and I loved KotOR 2 as much as, if not more than the first. I have faith in Obsidian. (Now if only NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer would release on Steam...)
Fodaquinhentos
Banned
Lumberjack beard is awesome.
TheSonicRetard
Banned
I like both Bioware AND obsidian. I think Mass Effect 1 was great, and I'm looking forward to Mass Effect 2 AND Alpha Protocol.
How quickly will I be shunned from this thread?
How quickly will I be shunned from this thread?
TheSonicRetard said:
Lol, I think most people are comparing those 2 games just because they deal with similiar concepts. I am also looking forward to both games as well.
HK-47 said:
I agree with this, which would probably be the thing that would break or make this game when it releases (for many gamers and gaffers alike).
It's the people that think this looks bland compared to Mass Effect that are annoying, which is what brings out the "AP looks like it does this, this and this better than Mass Effect" comments. I like Mass Effect too, and am looking forward to both ME2 and AP. It's just annoying that a bunch of people might overlook a game with much better writers because it has a realistic colour palette and a main character who looks like a spy.TheSonicRetard said:
vandalvideo
Banned
I miss WRPGs. We need less hybrids. I'll still buy this and enjoy it, but I want some more pure RPGs.
Most players will be satisfied with an 'epic' linear storyline with the odd decision here and there, so it'd even sound like more extensive branching would be a waste of resource. For some people for whom this formula has already started to feel stale a while ago, there's hope (hopefully) to be had in AP. Interactive storytelling and roleplaying within such a context needs to be explored further; there hasn't been much ground made in the last decade or more.
Further emphasis on character interaction and making relationships more dynamic (more breadth in the amount of branching allowed, not just the occasional key decision-point) is certainly one way in which this could have potential. In many WRPGs, NPC interaction is too often limited to a specific quest or story segment. You interact with those NPCs within said quest, and you may sometimes get very diverse options re: how to deal and interact with them. However, at the end of the day, it hardly affects the rest of the gameworld. It rarely if ever comes back to bite you afterwards. Other NPCs won't care, even the main ones you interact with the most. Even in ME, I can only think of 2 instances in which you can really affect what happens to your party members. 2, throughout the whole game. For everything and everyone else, you can be nice to them, be a jerk, ignore them outright, and they'll still treat you the same.
The Influence system can seem superficial, but at least it allows for keeping track of your relationship with all the major NPCs. It might just be a numerical tracker of how much an NPC likes you. Help someone, +1. Be a jerk, - 1. Save someone's life, +10, kill someone's dog, -2, etc etc. In essence, it might even seem like a simple good/bad morality system. The difference is that instead of the entire gameworld/NPCs revolving around how they perceive you based on that single morality scale, there are individual relationship scales for each and every important NPC you'll be interacting with. Given how all these NPCs might have different or opposing goals/beliefs/allegiances, it might make for some pretty interesting NPC-NPC/faction-faction interactions as well. If you want to be on someone's good side, you need to pay attention to what actions you do and make sure not to piss them off. Or if you do, hope it's minor enough, and perform other deeds through which you can redeem yourself. Do something major enough (eg. betray someone or kill a NPC's friend), and the scale will change enough so that all your previous deeds for that particular NPC become negated. This is a major event. In a single morality scale, this can only occur, perhaps, once or twice in the game, since it completely changes the game. There is no protagonist morality scale; only specific relationship scales. You piss someone off, they go after you and try to kill you. Them, only them (and their allies by proxy); not the entire world.
Remember Baldur's Gate? If you had too much a negative reputation, guards would appear and try to kill you in each new area. It didn't matter what you did or how you achieved your negative rep; it was a very simplistic tracker. Or take Morrowind/Oblivion; murder people, and guards will chase after you; doesn't matter where the crime too place, they instantly recognize you. You can pay a fine and the rep is reversed again. Again, very simplistic. This happens when the games take very simple approach to NPC interaction. If the only scale through which your interaction with the gameworld/NPCs is your global rep or morality scale, then the different possible interactions are more limiting.
More in-depth relationship scales catering to individual NPCs requires more work, even more so because NPCs also have relationships with each other. It is work that not every WRPG needs to do, depending on what those set out to achieve. However, in a game in which DYNAMIC relationships and NPC interactions are important, then they will assuredly be worth the investment. I don't just mean a simple 'you can kill ANYONE lol' approach as in Morrowind (in which the way the NPCs treat you is very simple despite having to kill most everyone except key NPCs), or a simple relationship minigame like in Fable2. The important take-home message and that these interactions and relationships will take place within the actual game, while you're carrying out missions and key objectives, while you're talking or interrogating NPCs. It all happens while you're roleplaying the protagonist WITHIN a storytelling context. Your choices affect how the NPCs relate to you. Not just in ONE situation which won't affect the rest of the game at all (I mean, it's pretty easy to allow the player to kill or let live a NPC, if the NPC won't affect the rest of the game ever again), but with recurrent encounters with different NPCs. A simple example of this is at the very beginning of the game if you choose to arrest a terrorist arms-dealer, instead of killing or extorting him. You gain the 'Incorruptible' perk, where other NPCs further down the line might know you by reputation and not try to bribe you (and perhaps outright try to kill you), for example. It's a very simple choice, with no outright obvious consequence, but it can bite back when you least expect it.
Choice & consequence isn't just some WRPG catchphrase; it needs to be integrated in every facet of WRPG design. You make a choice, you need a consequence. It can help you define your character, it can affect your relationship with other NPCs, it can lead to different factions opposing you depending on what you've done, but it needs to reflect in the game.
I'm not saying AP will deliver on this, but I certainly hope so. You can say AP looks bland and generic all you want, but a RPG is more than just setting and combat. Hopefully, the industry will acknowledge that someday.
You can enjoy ME for what it is (I did!), but it doesn't achieve anything beyond telling an 'epic' storyline in the way Bioware has been doing it in the last decade, with varying degrees of success.
Buy Alpha Protolol!
Further emphasis on character interaction and making relationships more dynamic (more breadth in the amount of branching allowed, not just the occasional key decision-point) is certainly one way in which this could have potential. In many WRPGs, NPC interaction is too often limited to a specific quest or story segment. You interact with those NPCs within said quest, and you may sometimes get very diverse options re: how to deal and interact with them. However, at the end of the day, it hardly affects the rest of the gameworld. It rarely if ever comes back to bite you afterwards. Other NPCs won't care, even the main ones you interact with the most. Even in ME, I can only think of 2 instances in which you can really affect what happens to your party members. 2, throughout the whole game. For everything and everyone else, you can be nice to them, be a jerk, ignore them outright, and they'll still treat you the same.
The Influence system can seem superficial, but at least it allows for keeping track of your relationship with all the major NPCs. It might just be a numerical tracker of how much an NPC likes you. Help someone, +1. Be a jerk, - 1. Save someone's life, +10, kill someone's dog, -2, etc etc. In essence, it might even seem like a simple good/bad morality system. The difference is that instead of the entire gameworld/NPCs revolving around how they perceive you based on that single morality scale, there are individual relationship scales for each and every important NPC you'll be interacting with. Given how all these NPCs might have different or opposing goals/beliefs/allegiances, it might make for some pretty interesting NPC-NPC/faction-faction interactions as well. If you want to be on someone's good side, you need to pay attention to what actions you do and make sure not to piss them off. Or if you do, hope it's minor enough, and perform other deeds through which you can redeem yourself. Do something major enough (eg. betray someone or kill a NPC's friend), and the scale will change enough so that all your previous deeds for that particular NPC become negated. This is a major event. In a single morality scale, this can only occur, perhaps, once or twice in the game, since it completely changes the game. There is no protagonist morality scale; only specific relationship scales. You piss someone off, they go after you and try to kill you. Them, only them (and their allies by proxy); not the entire world.
Remember Baldur's Gate? If you had too much a negative reputation, guards would appear and try to kill you in each new area. It didn't matter what you did or how you achieved your negative rep; it was a very simplistic tracker. Or take Morrowind/Oblivion; murder people, and guards will chase after you; doesn't matter where the crime too place, they instantly recognize you. You can pay a fine and the rep is reversed again. Again, very simplistic. This happens when the games take very simple approach to NPC interaction. If the only scale through which your interaction with the gameworld/NPCs is your global rep or morality scale, then the different possible interactions are more limiting.
More in-depth relationship scales catering to individual NPCs requires more work, even more so because NPCs also have relationships with each other. It is work that not every WRPG needs to do, depending on what those set out to achieve. However, in a game in which DYNAMIC relationships and NPC interactions are important, then they will assuredly be worth the investment. I don't just mean a simple 'you can kill ANYONE lol' approach as in Morrowind (in which the way the NPCs treat you is very simple despite having to kill most everyone except key NPCs), or a simple relationship minigame like in Fable2. The important take-home message and that these interactions and relationships will take place within the actual game, while you're carrying out missions and key objectives, while you're talking or interrogating NPCs. It all happens while you're roleplaying the protagonist WITHIN a storytelling context. Your choices affect how the NPCs relate to you. Not just in ONE situation which won't affect the rest of the game at all (I mean, it's pretty easy to allow the player to kill or let live a NPC, if the NPC won't affect the rest of the game ever again), but with recurrent encounters with different NPCs. A simple example of this is at the very beginning of the game if you choose to arrest a terrorist arms-dealer, instead of killing or extorting him. You gain the 'Incorruptible' perk, where other NPCs further down the line might know you by reputation and not try to bribe you (and perhaps outright try to kill you), for example. It's a very simple choice, with no outright obvious consequence, but it can bite back when you least expect it.
Choice & consequence isn't just some WRPG catchphrase; it needs to be integrated in every facet of WRPG design. You make a choice, you need a consequence. It can help you define your character, it can affect your relationship with other NPCs, it can lead to different factions opposing you depending on what you've done, but it needs to reflect in the game.
I'm not saying AP will deliver on this, but I certainly hope so. You can say AP looks bland and generic all you want, but a RPG is more than just setting and combat. Hopefully, the industry will acknowledge that someday.
You can enjoy ME for what it is (I did!), but it doesn't achieve anything beyond telling an 'epic' storyline in the way Bioware has been doing it in the last decade, with varying degrees of success.
Buy Alpha Protolol!
TheSonicRetard
Banned
Why is it that every thread on this forum goes like this:
"Here is a game"
"Oh that game looks like that other game"
"Fuck you! This game looks way awesome. In fact, other game was fucking shit!"
"No way dude, this game looks like trash. Other game rules"
"Well you obviously like shit. Shit like other game. Because other game is shit"
"Well at least its not as shit as game!"
*repeat*
OR
"Here is a game."
"I did not enjoy this game. Therefore it's shit."
"What?! YOU are shit!"
"Please. Game had a minor annoyance! It's the worst shit ever."
"I liked that annoyance!"
"Because you suck. It was broken, ugly, and pure fucking shit. The worst game ever."
*repeat*
OR
"ITT post Most X game ever"
"X"
"Y"
"Z"
"X"
"X"
"X"
"X"
"Y"
"X"
"Z"
"Z"
"Y"
*repeat*
And why is the justification for this always "this is gaf dude hurr hurr"
"Here is a game"
"Oh that game looks like that other game"
"Fuck you! This game looks way awesome. In fact, other game was fucking shit!"
"No way dude, this game looks like trash. Other game rules"
"Well you obviously like shit. Shit like other game. Because other game is shit"
"Well at least its not as shit as game!"
*repeat*
OR
"Here is a game."
"I did not enjoy this game. Therefore it's shit."
"What?! YOU are shit!"
"Please. Game had a minor annoyance! It's the worst shit ever."
"I liked that annoyance!"
"Because you suck. It was broken, ugly, and pure fucking shit. The worst game ever."
*repeat*
OR
"ITT post Most X game ever"
"X"
"Y"
"Z"
"X"
"X"
"X"
"X"
"Y"
"X"
"Z"
"Z"
"Y"
*repeat*
And why is the justification for this always "this is gaf dude hurr hurr"
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
.Flyguy said:
Just watched the CG 'options' trailer and that walkthrough video on PSN, the concept is awesome and I am really attracted to it, but hell the player animations are absolute shit from what I saw. Really unstable it seems.. graphics are fine, some animation moves are fine, but when he's crouching or walking etc it just look horrible. Boxart is also utter shit (colors don't mix!), but it's not a big deal.
When is this coming out again? Hopefully the animation flaws and technical things will be fixed by the time the game launches..
When is this coming out again? Hopefully the animation flaws and technical things will be fixed by the time the game launches..
wondermega
Member
I was an artist on this game - I will be sad if they remove the bold Herzog Zwei reference that found it's way in there (sad, but also surprised!)
Also release is in October of this year I believe..
Also release is in October of this year I believe..
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Oh cool stuffswondermega said:
Will look forward trying to spot it hehShake Appeal
Member
Disliking Fallout 3 doesn't mean you have unbelievably high standards.HiResDes said:
Shake Appeal
Member
Fallout 3 sends me into paroxysms of nerd-rage.
Then I discovered The Witcher and all was well with WRPGs again.
Then I discovered The Witcher and all was well with WRPGs again.
shadowmask72
Member
I'm really excited for this game and yup, those videos do a grand job of selling the game. Reminds me a little of the canned Namco game Frame City Killer crossed with Deus Ex.
xS1TH L0RDx
Banned
godhandiscen said:
Except this will be good. Everytime bioware makes a game, they should just finish it, not release it, and give it to obsidian so they can refine bioware's ideas and add the fun.
Cow Mengde
Banned
I think I know why this RPG looks more fun than other RPGs; it's because they have "satisfying" and "tasteful" sex scenes in it. You can put your hand on a thing, and they do things like you know... over... you know.