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Amazon’s Tightening Grip on the Economy Is Stifling Competition, Eroding Jobs

Pagusas

Elden Member
Sometimes I wish the goverment could force a company to break its shareholder obligations and work towards the greater good. Like Amazon is obligated to basically march towards a monopoly because thats whats best for its shareholders, but If it was free of those obligations I wonder if the leaders of the company would steer it more towards stability and some outreach to help small businesses.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Wait, so where is the evidence that half of US households are signed up with Prime?

Theres 80 million Prime memberships. Theres 125 million US households. The number is 64% but there is bound to be some overlap so half is probably more fitting. Any way you slice it that is a huge number and it goes to one of the points of the report that Amazon is basically invisible while theyve been amassing control and power.
 

Ovid

Member
Sometimes I wish the goverment could force a company to break its shareholder obligations and work towards the greater good. Like Amazon is obligated to basically march towards a monopoly because thats whats best for its shareholders, but If it was free of those obligations I wonder if the leaders of the company would steer it more towards stability and some outreach to help small businesses.
So you want the government to run corporations? Sounds like a planned economy.

Corporations are not created for the greater good/altruism. They're created to raise capital and become more efficient enterprises.

Some corporations become really good at what they do (Amazon) and branch off into other sectors.
 
Theres a little bit more to it than good prices and good service. From the reports summary of Monopolizing the Economy:


  • Amazon uses its vast financial resources to sell many products below its own cost as a tactic for both eliminating competitors that lack similarly deep pockets and hooking customers into its Prime ecosystem, which sharply reduces the chances they will shop around in the future. (Pages 15-16)
  • By using Prime to corral an ever-larger share of online shoppers, Amazon has left rival retailers and manufacturers with little choice but to become third-party sellers on its platform. In effect, Amazon is supplanting an open market with a privately controlled one, giving it the power to dictate the terms by which its competitors can operate, and to levy a kind of tax on their revenue. (Pages 17-19)
  • Amazon leverages the interplay between the direct retail and platform sides of its business to maximize its dominance over suppliers. As it extracts more fees from them, it’s hollowing out their companies and reducing their ability to invent and develop new products. (Pages 18-23)
  • Meanwhile, Amazon is rapidly expanding its own product lines, using the trove of data that it gathers from its platform to understand its suppliers’ industries and compete directly against them. Many of these Amazon products appear at the top of its search listings. (Pages 24–25)
  • Amazon is fueling a sharp decline in the number of independent retail businesses, a trend manufacturers say is harming their industries by making it harder for new products and new authors and creators to find an audience. (Pages 25-28)
  • Amazon poses a particular danger in the book industry, where its power to manipulate what we encounter, remove books from its search results, and direct our attention to select titles threatens the open exchange of ideas and information. (Page 28)
  • Already there’s evidence that Amazon is using its huge trove of data about our buying habits to raise prices, and it’s also started blocking access to certain products, charging higher prices, and delaying shipping times for customers who decline to join its Prime program. (Pages 29-30)
  • To focus too much on prices, though, is to miss the real costs of monopoly. Amazon’s tightening grip is damaging our ability to earn a living and curtailing our freedom as producers of value. New business formation has plummeted over the last decade, which economists say is stunting job creation, squeezing the middle class, and worsening income inequality. (Pages 30-31)

This is not healthy.

Quoted for posterity.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
There is none.

Like a mentioned before, Amazon doesn't disclose Prime numbers.

Amazon doesnt disclose the numbers but there have been estimates done from what has been disclosed.

CNBC: Amazon hints at one of its best-kept secrets: How many Prime members it has


n its filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission last week, Amazon added a new line item to its annual report: retail subscription services.

The company said it generated $6.4 billion in revenue related to that item last year.

Guggenheim Securities analyst Robert Drbul estimates that shakes out to about 65 million Prime members. Cowen & Co. analyst John Blackledge calculated an even higher number of subscribers. His estimate pegs the Prime subscriber base at closer to 80 million globally.
 

Lifeline

Member
Half of US Households having prime is insane and hard to believe. They're probably counting every free trial as a new household or something.
 

hawk2025

Member
Theres 80 million Prime memberships. Theres 125 million US households. The number is 64% but there is bound to be some overlap so half is probably more fitting. Any way you slice it that is a huge number and it goes to one of the points of the report that Amazon is basically invisible while theyve been amassing control and power.


Source?

Here's a hint on why you and this article are completely off the mark:

Amazon.co.uk
Amazon.co.it
Amazon.co.de
 

Future

Member
Sometimes I wish the goverment could force a company to break its shareholder obligations and work towards the greater good. Like Amazon is obligated to basically march towards a monopoly because thats whats best for its shareholders, but If it was free of those obligations I wonder if the leaders of the company would steer it more towards stability and some outreach to help small businesses.

Why would they do this if it didn't increase power or success. Even without shareholders
 

kirblar

Member
Who is subsidizing my choice to live in the country?
Cities. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps/

If you ventured into the thread about Poland's near-miss w/ fascism, you saw posters talking of the same complaints about the EU that you see about the US government in red states and rural areas in the US. Complaints about how their money is being "taken away" when in actuality they're net beneficiaries of federal spending.
 

slit

Member
Theres 80 million Prime memberships. Theres 125 million US households. The number is 64% but there is bound to be some overlap so half is probably more fitting. Any way you slice it that is a huge number and it goes to one of the points of the report that Amazon is basically invisible while theyve been amassing control and power.

Where did you get those numbers from? Certainly not in the link you provided.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
80 million globally is a bit different than 80 million US households.

The article mentions globally but the source estimates are specific to the US. Heres the press release for the CIRP report that came to those numbers.

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JDcFWSR.jpg


edit: And i dont know why this is so incredible to people. It feels like everybody i know has Amazon Prime.
 

kirblar

Member
I've seen the "half of US households have Prime" estimate elsewhere- it's not something they created out of thin air as a scaremongering tactic.
 

OceanBlue

Member
The article mentions globally but the source estimates are specific to the US. Heres the press release for the CIRP report that came to those numbers.


edit: And i dont know why this is so incredible to people. It feels like everybody i know has Amazon Prime.
I'm surprised because I don't ask a lot of people I know if they have prime, but I do have it as well. Anyway thanks for the links. I guess CNBC just misrepresented it.
 

slit

Member
I'm fine with the Gov't breaking up Amazon if they amass too much power. The genie is out anyway. The convenience and price will still be there no matter what just from different online retailers. It really won't change anything about the current retail trends though. A lot of people don't want the hassle of B&M and you're not changing that anytime soon.
 

Ovid

Member
It really won't change anything about the current retail trends though. A lot of people don't want the hassle of B&M and you're not changing that anytime soon.

The problem with B&M is that it's the same every time you go there. You can only change up the store layout so many times.

I think people are just tired of that experience.
 

slit

Member
The problem with B&M is that it's the same every time you go there. You can only change up the store layout so many times.

I think people are just tired of that experience.

That and no matter what, a physical store is going to be more limited in selection of merchandise no matter how big they go.
 

Syrus

Banned
I'm fine with the Gov't breaking up Amazon if they amass too much power. The genie is out anyway. The convenience and price will still be there no matter what just from different online retailers. It really won't change anything about the current retail trends though. A lot of people don't want the hassle of B&M and you're not changing that anytime soon.


Fuck that. Amazon has done nothing but treat me good. Eveey time Ive had an issue with an order I got a full refund or month on prime.

Amazon rocks. If someone can do better then id be for it.
 
I never realized Amazon had such a wide reach

They do and it's only going to grow. Reason being is because the means in which they interface with users is changing. They will find more data from these new avenues (Amazon look, or whatever it is called) and find ways of delivering better products and services. I'm honestly not mad at them from getting ahead of thetechnological curve. I don't believe they are truly stifling industry. It's just some industries don't want to compete and Amazon does. Go get em.
 

slit

Member
Fuck that. Amazon has done nothing but treat me good. Eveey time Ive had an issue with an order I got a full refund or month on prime.

Amazon rocks. If someone can do better then id be for it.

If they gain too much power they no longer have an incentive to do that though. That is why there are laws to address organizations developing a monopoly.
 

Super Mario

Banned
It's amazing how many people have a negative opinion of the richest of rich and corporations, yet those same people live and die by Amazon. Amazon is probably the most evil and unethical company out there. Yes, that is very subjective, especially as to get so large, it requires actions that the public generally won't agree with. Amazon is just over the top on all areas. From news influence, to tax evasion, to extreme automation, to poor employee working conditions. Aside from being a customer, few have had their lives improved by Amazon. Do you know of anyone who has a good job there? Do you know of any good positions opened? Bezos won't be happy until his whole company is robotics. At least a Walmart is a great center of tax revenue for the city. At least it provides jobs including management. The future of retail as told by Amazon doesn't involve people development. It involves how many boxes you can pack per hour, if you're lucky enough to have that still exist. We're now seeing once great malls and retailers closed and deserted in poor cities. The local governments are so eager to have anyone fill that space that Amazon is getting it pennies on the dollar.

All that, and their prices aren't even the best anymore. It's kind of like Costco where yea, prices are competitive. However, there's this perception that this is the greatest place to shop, and it requires a purchased membership and loyalty. Defenders will consistently say "it is more convenient to have it shipped to my home," like Amazon is the only company that does this. I purchase the majority of my online items from Jet and eBay, who have much better prices. I admit buying from those two is no local or economy booster either. Many competitors will match Amazon prices too. I've found that the prices are often the exact same on most websites, so you don't even have to ask. These retailers also give you an option in some cases to have it shipped, or pick it out today. Amazon's customer service is overrated from old tales of "oh your keyboard is broken, you don't need to ship it back". Today you email them and an outsourced worker provides you a script.

They've acquired so much influence and power that they get to play by a different set of rules from every other retailer. Imagine if Walmart had raked in as much profit as Amazon. Would the stock prices have aligned? Almost every other company is responsible for being profitable, remember the reason why businesses used to exist? Now it's about how many things you can shovel out of the door at no profit in order to create a false worth of investment. The sales tax evasion has been a huge competitive advantage for Amazon, while wreaking havoc on local government income. Even if your state "collects" taxes on Amazon now, it is still very easy to get out of it by checking in the marketplace.

Still, I do give Bezos credit. No one truly understands just how brilliant of an empire he created. Every piece of it is more intricate than you believe. At what point is it too much?
 
To the guy above... my friends wife works at amazon as a hardware engineer. Ive never heard anything negative about her job. Shes been there about 3 years now.

Im sure the warehouse jobs suck. But most menial entry level jobs suck. I always hear the commercials on the radio for the local amazon warehouse - they offer benefits from day 1 which is better than most shitty jobs.
 

B4s5C

Member
To the guy above... my friends wife works at amazon as a hardware engineer. Ive never heard anything negative about her job. Shes been there about 3 years now.

Im sure the warehouse jobs suck. But most menial entry level jobs suck. I always hear the commercials on the radio for the local amazon warehouse - they offer benefits from day 1 which is better than most shitty jobs.

Check out this report from the NYT on the corporate culture.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/...stling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

Where they are today comes off the backs of the people in that environment.

Edit: Some good excerpts:

At Amazon, workers are encouraged to tear apart one another's ideas in meetings, toil long and late (emails arrive past midnight, followed by text messages asking why they were not answered), and held to standards that the company boasts are ”unreasonably high." The internal phone directory instructs colleagues on how to send secret feedback to one another's bosses. Employees say it is frequently used to sabotage others. (The tool offers sample texts, including this: ”I felt concerned about his inflexibility and openly complaining about minor tasks.")

Even as the company tests delivery by drone and ways to restock toilet paper at the push of a bathroom button, it is conducting a little-known experiment in how far it can push white-collar workers, redrawing the boundaries of what is acceptable.

Bo Olson was one of them. He lasted less than two years in a book marketing role and said that his enduring image was watching people weep in the office, a sight other workers described as well. ”You walk out of a conference room and you'll see a grown man covering his face," he said. ”Nearly every person I worked with, I saw cry at their desk."

ens of millions of Americans know Amazon as customers, but life inside its corporate offices is largely a mystery. Secrecy is required; even low-level employees sign a lengthy confidentiality agreement. The company authorized only a handful of senior managers to talk to reporters for this article, declining requests for interviews with Mr. Bezos and his top leaders.

And there is so much more.
 

Izayoi

Banned
Doubting the Prime subscriber number is silly. Granted, I live in Seattle, but literally every single household I know has at least one Prime subscription.

Edit: I know that anecdote doesn't hold up well under scrutiny but in this particular case I don't see any reason to doubt that number is true.
 

OceanBlue

Member
Doubting the Prime subscriber number is silly. Granted, I live in Seattle, but literally every single household I know has at least one Prime subscription.

Edit: I know that anecdote doesn't hold up well under scrutiny but in this particular case I don't see any reason to doubt that number is true.
The reason people are surprised is most likely that this isn't the case for them.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
How do you combat a problem caused by consumer preferences for convenience and low prices?

In reality, you don't. You can fight it, but you won't win.

Check out this report from the NYT on the corporate culture.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/...stling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

Where they are today comes off the backs of the people in that environment.

Edit: Some good excerpts:

And there is so much more.

They employ tens of thousands of office workers in just the Seattle area. I'm sure there are issues with their corporate culture and executive team like any company, but Amazon is not monolithic. There are so many teams doing so many different things with very different cultures. Being in Seattle, I know a lot of people that work or have worked at Amazon. Some people have horror stories, others think it's an amazing place to work, and there are even more in between. I don't think it's possible to define the company's culture across the board.
 

Goodlife

Member
I've no problem paying a bit more, especially for prime, but fuck their service is amazing.
Order by 7pm, arrives next day, pretty much without fail.

If people want to fight them, then fine, but keep the same service!
 

GodofWine

Member
Sometimes I wish the goverment could force a company to break its shareholder obligations and work towards the greater good. Like Amazon is obligated to basically march towards a monopoly because thats whats best for its shareholders, but If it was free of those obligations I wonder if the leaders of the company would steer it more towards stability and some outreach to help small businesses.

I know what you mean, no idea how to make it work...but yea, if there wasn't an unquenchable thirst for INCREASING profits, and ya know, just making a SHIT TON of money a year was enough, the grow and automate, the acquire and cut, the acquire and kill, etc methods of massive company growth may not be as utilized.


If Amazon (and a few others) grows and automate stuff like the want, the consumer base naturally shrinks. Robots aren't ordering anything on Prime.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
This article is making me see parallels between Amazon's tactics and Steam's. And while I'm usually the type to brush off anti-Steam fearmongering, it does seem concerting here, because it looks like we're gradually building towards the United States of Amazon. Should one company underpin so much of our economy? I don't think so.

But whereas the game industry is learning to work with or around Steam in recent years, Amazon is progressing too quickly and with too much momentum to respond to given the current pace of our policy making.
 

g11

Member
Amazon is the Wal-Mart of the internet, that's pretty obvious. Prime numbers are interesting and all, but it's weird that that's what everyone is talking about to me. The way Amazon does business is infinitely more fascinating to me and even though I've never really followed the business of how Amazon cornered all these markets, I absolutely believe most of what that report says particularly about selling at a loss to corner the market and then raising prices. We as gamers saw it first hand 5 or so years ago where out of the blue, Amazon was offering a $20 credit and free release date delivery with almost every new game to hit the market. This continued for what seemed like at least a year or two and once Amazon was the go-to choice for pretty much anybody looking to buy a game on release and didn't want to deal with GameStop and their BS, those $20 credits up and disappeared and stayed disappeared. It wasn't until Best Buy started eeking back some of that market share with GCU did Amazon start matching that 20% off but only if you had Prime.

I'm seeing it more and more with Amazon now that they have all the market share. Amazon Prime used to include unlimited Amazon Drive storage but now that's being phased out and only applies to photos, although Prime price is not changing.

During the recent Prime Day event, Amazon ran a $10 off your first Prime Now order, and a $10 voucher for the next order too. I went ahead and gave it a try just to see how it worked and their prices were pretty good and the $10 off made it a no-brainer. It was really convenient and so I thought about trying it again after the first two orders and I looked yesterday and most of the stuff I bought in my first two orders have increased in price since the promo time, some of them up to 40% more. For me personally, I'd rather get the absolute best price than give that up for the convenience of having it delivered, but I absolutely can see how most people would just say "fuck it" and continue ordering as much as they can that way, despite the increase in cost (which incidentally was now higher than both Wal-Mart and my local grocery store, at least for me).
 

sono

Member
It would happen with or without Amazon. Technology is bringing costs down and reducing the number of needed workers. Has nothing to do with Amazon specifically.

So creating opportunity for working on higher value tasks

But I would agree with concerns on companies having a monopoly. There is a flipside that if Amazon collapsed for some reason as to the consequences if it is foundation upon which things are built coming down with it.
 

RedZaraki

Banned
What a bunch of horse shit.


This is what you asked for. Free market. Competition.


Guess what? When someone does what you do, but cheaper and faster, you lose.
 
How big of a market share do they need to get before they become stagnant?

If they've got no competition, there's no incentive for them to keep on selling products for less than they're worth, at which point prices will increase and another company will probably start to compete with them.
 

Peltz

Member
Educate people of the wrongdoings of Amazon and hope as many of their customers as possible pick fairer options instead of saving a few bucks. It's not like that kind of tactic doesn't work. A lot of people will still continue being selfish/cheapskates but there is a portion of the public who do try to make more conscious, ethical choices, even if it costs them more.

Eh... I don't see Amazon as competing unfairly. They're ruthless, yes.

But ruthless is not really the same thing as unfair.
 

Soroc

Member
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features...-prices-misleading-consumers-says-vendor.html

this vendor says amazon basically practices surge based pricing, raising the price on the stuff he sold whenever it got articles about it on buzzfeed, etc

Is that wrong? Dunno. Its definitely shady claiming a prime day discount when its the same price its been selling for years, and just marking up MSRP that day.

I agree its shady but it is a common retail tactic. I mean Black Friday lives by it if you follow pricing and MSRP pricing in the lead up to the biggest and hottest items.
 
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