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[kirblar]

That's not three paragraphs of nothingness. If you think it is, that's on you.

W/ the first paragraph, one of the issues w/ regulation is that existing industries will use government to prevent competitors from encroaching on their territory - this can include big corporations and small startups. This is not an argument for "no regulation", but it is one for watching what types of regulations people are trying to impose.

W/ the second, this is an acknowledgement that social welfare benefits are going to be a necessity moving forward because these changes are not going to slow down.

 

[SMattera]

The FTC doesn't have the best track record when it comes to predicting what's going to best for consumers in the long-run. The economics of every industry are different, and technology is always shifting things.

A great example is when they blocked the Hollywood Video/Blockbuster merger in 2005 on the grounds that it would be bad for consumers. Within six years both companies were dead. Maybe things wouldn't have been different even if they had merged, but it's possible competition in the entertainment distribution space would be greater today and consumers would be even better off.

Recently, they blocked Staples/Office Depot, and (kinda) Walgreens/Rite Aid. In 10 years, Amazon could wind up killing all four companies. Maybe we'd ultimately all be better off as consumers if the mergers had been allowed to go through.

A major breakup seems even sillier. How would you go about breaking up Google without harming consumers? The company has one trick (advertising) that it feeds through multiple tentacles. Detached from Google, they may have to be monetized in other ways. Gmail, Google Photos, Android are otherwise worth hundreds of dollars to consumers, provided free of charge.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Oh yes the usual megacorps defender are at it i see.

Can't wait until we get to megacorps dystopia so we all become expendables and i can go on the internet screaming "told you so" until i die of hunger.

 

[sirap]

I'm not happy with Amazon's monopoly on the eBook market, even though I make millions from it.

 

[hawk2025]

This is ill-researched pap, and not how the equilibrium impact of any corporation or market structure should be measured.

There is no attempt at a control or believable counterfactual, only grandstanding and begging the question.

And if we are questioning the incentives of Wired, I will certainly question the incentives of the "Institute for Local Self-Reliance", which on its face is at odds with a company that has revolutionized digital and physical retail by deconstructing the misguided, inefficient myth of "buy local".

 

[SMattera]

I'm not happy with Amazon's monopoly on the eBook market, even though I make millions from it.

Honestly, I found their complaint that Amazon could somehow control the flow of written communication and ideas laughably silly.

Amazon may have a near monopoly on ebooks, but think about what it replaced -- monopolies of big book stores and big publishers. 20, 30 years ago Borders and Barnes & Noble and Penguin and all the publishing houses really could control what was published, and what wasn't. What consumers could read and what they couldn't.

Now anyone in the world can publish a Kindle book if they want. Amazon is taking its 30% sure, and it might not sell, but it's out there. In 1990, if you couldn't get a publisher to sign a deal, and you couldn't get Borders to make you one the 5000 or so books they carried in their store, you were completely shut out.

 

[kirblar]

Honestly, I found their complaint that Amazon could somehow control the flow of written communication and ideas laughably silly.

Amazon may have a near monopoly on ebooks, but think about what it replaced -- monopolies of big book stores and big publishers. 20, 30 years ago Borders and Barnes & Noble and Penguin and all the publishing houses really could control what was published, and what wasn't. What consumers could read and what they couldn't.

Now anyone in the world can publish a Kindle book if they want. Amazon is taking its 30% sure, and it might not sell, but it's out there. In 1990, if you couldn't get a publisher to sign a deal, and you couldn't get Borders to make you one the 5000 or so books they carried in their store, you were completely shut out.

In one of my HS English classes my teacher had a terrible, awful book that got brought out every year as an example of the Vanity Press.

 

[BigDug13]

The prices are just too good and the shipping is just too convenient. Ain't no reason to go to a regular store anymore

Yep. I'm a prime member for years now but for most things I've reached a point where I'll even take non-prime 5 day shipping over having to drive to a store unless it's an emergent need.

Retail will NEVER be able to compete with my complacency.

 

[Future]

Amazon is an amazing company. To think what started as an an online marketplace for books would become

- the best online marketplace for practically everything
- a growing marketplace for groceries and food
- a marketplace big enough that it can influence it. Prime day often comes with it sales in competing retailers
- a restaraunt delivery service
- cloud backbone for a huge percentage of web services, including the government
- video and music media service competitor
- dominant ebook store
- best in class killer product that goes to the roots of it original bookstore service: the kindle
- expanded the kindle to support all buyers: cheap to luxury. No room for anyone to compete because they cater to every price point
- significant player in the tablet and home tv streambox market
- created a new killer home device in the echo, and influenced other tech companies to copy this approach and compete
- almost everyone of its services provide encouragement to join another Amazon service, creating synergy almost as strong as google services and stronger than most others

Talk about success on top of success. It's crazy how much amazon shit I have in my house now

 

[curiouscharles]

I buy all my clothes from Amazon because it's impossible to find things that fit tall skinny guys at regular retail stores with any consistency. Also, Amazon gives free shipping back which is huge because "slim fit" shirts are a crap shoot. Sometimes I get one and it's like I'm swimming in it. If an online store could provide accurate measurements of the clothing, I'd shop there exclusively regardless of price.

i sell niche high[est] end fashion, not exactly something amazon will ever beat me at.

low volume, high yield.

plus i'm the fit expert here to help with sizing, personalized sizing and styling advice via the owner and buyer and creative director [all me] is the only thing keeping my little cottage industry alive honestly [well, that and the kind of peoplek who buy these clothes].

 

[Izayoi]

Amazon will rule the world, along with Google.

It is inevitable.

 

[wesleyshark]

The prices are just too good and the shipping is just too convenient. Ain't no reason to go to a regular store anymore

Exactly this. I have zero incentive to shop at places like Target or elsewhere for most things anymore. Hell, even Amazon Pantry covers a lot of grocery items for cheaper prices as well, which reduces what I need to buy in actual grocery stores.

Amazon Prime is an unparalleled value.

 

[pantsmith]

I'd be 100% okay with Amazon's near-monopoly on our future if they used their fortune and power to protect the actual Amazon rainfortest.

"Hey guys, you might not like how we've taken over just about everything, but remember who saved the Amazon."

 

[Lucky Seven]

Interesting! Will read, but I must say I have seen Amazon grow into this behemoth and I have only been impressed. So, let's see what that means for the future.

The other reports they've done sound equally interesting.

 

[AAK]

This is how you make the most out of Capitalism.

 

[h1nch]

Could we see a future where Amazon is restructured and split into smaller separate companies? Seems like AWS / retail would be a natural separation point.

 

[Afrocious]

Nobody thinks about how many companies rely on AWS.

 

[Megawarrior]

Amazon is king for me since they added amazon fresh. Grocery stores need to step their asses up.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Amazon will rule the world, along with Google.

It is inevitable.

This.

Scores for a major supply chain retailer in Michigan. Amazon is building two warehouses up here, both equidistant to the commute I already do to work. I like my job, but I love it compared to what I have heard the work conditions are like in Amazon, even though the only thing that would make me change is another manager's position or Beyond.

Amazon could pay me six figures before bonuses, but I work a nine-to-five on salary, first shift. I fear that if I moved over to Amazon, I'll be working 12-hour days I like they do in Automotive. Gross.2nd shift? Double plus Gross.

 

[Erevador]

It's too bad we don't have a Democratic president who would do some trust busting.

Nonsense. Modern Democrats are much more in bed with the big tech companies than Republicans. Eric Schmidt and Jeff Bezos were close with both Obama and Clinton.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Putting aside their labor practices, why should I drive to a store when I can get the same item shipped to my doorstep? Isn't it worse for the environment for me to be burning gas on a two-way trip to acquire one item when it could be delivered on a route instead?

 

[SwordStruck]

That's not the deeper issue I think.

It's that most of Amazon's arenas that usurp the current model also do so by employing fractions of the population.

Let's assume Amazon Go becomes standard. That's the death of most retail jobs. Then comes warehousing, transportation, etc.

The issue isn't service, I'd say. It's the usurping of jobs, but the problem's always been jobs.

This is going to happen with or without Amazon.

 

[Mirk]

If brick and mortar stores carried what I buy amazon wouldn't get all my money. Every store I go to has the same shit. Target, walmart, best buy, sears, shopko all of these places carry the same stuff. Kid wants a certain toy no sense shopping around if one doesn't have it none of them will. Only thing retail can get from me is everyday items and thats on the way out too.

 

[DrROBschiz]

there is an antitrust conversation to be had when it comes to amazon


no doubt about it

 

[PeskyToaster]

They are just too good right now. I get all my games and stuff from Prime. Super convenient.

 

[UCBooties]

we've seen this story before. 20 years ago it was Wal-Mart. 20 years from now it will be some free energy company.

Well, yeah. But a lot of those criticisms and warnings about Wal-mart turned out to be true. So we should probably take similar warnings about Amazon's reach and influence seriously.

 

[el jacko]

Putting aside their labor practices, why should I drive to a store when I can get the same item shipped to my doorstep? Isn't it worse for the environment for me to be burning gas on a two-way trip to acquire one item when it could be delivered on a route instead?

Yeah, everyone here's driving. Where I live (NYC) I can walk 5-10 minutes to a supermarket, hardware store, etc, and buy 90% of everything I need. And I can't, even for a second, imagine giving up the physicality of these places for a bit of convenience from an online order. I actually like walking to the store!

And i work in a community organization where the most important aspect of shopping for many of my colleagues is the feeling of being in a place around others - I hate people, and I'm friendly with the supermarket cashiers and the booksellers.

I'm not criticizing anybody in this thread, directly at least, because I know that NYC is a unique environment to live. But both Amazon and its predecessor Wal-Mart are partially responsible for the destruction of communities of space, where all the retail establishment is wiped out in the name of cost efficiency - and yes, that's an economic reality, but the physical establishment provides intangible benefits of a sense of place.

And I also get that many of those smaller towns got wiped out due to other trends in the national economy, but those trends are a part of a global trend towards consolidation of corporations - creation of monopolies! So yeah, the anti-trust legislation is important, not just for Amazon and Wal-Mart, but also for the companies that have chosen to abandon local towns which were the original sources of growth for them.

 

[johnny956]

there is an antitrust conversation to be had when it comes to amazon


no doubt about it

Do they have a monopoly in any market currently? If not there isn't an antitrust conservation. I think eventually they will be in certain markets but currently Best Buy, Walmart, Walgreens etc all have decent market share in their categories.

 

[PeterLegend]

Amazon doing well is dangerous for a lot of companies, not just retail brick and mortar stores but the actual companies that sell to the Walmarts, AutoZones, O'Reillys, Kmarts/Sears like mines....

Our company has an initiative to produce 25% of our total sales for online in two years.

 

[Draft]

HALF of US households have Prime? That's hard to believe.

 

[Ovid]

I kinda refuse to believe that stat.
It's nuts!

Amazon doesn't disclose Prime numbers so this is speculation based on certain calculations.

Also, is this source reputable?

EDIT: So the authors of this report are against corporations growing large and want small businesses to be the retail vanguard. So they basically have an agenda.

I won't dismiss it but I will keep that in the back of my mind as I read it.

It also creates a dialogue.

 

[n00bsauce87]

To have a company's revenue go through exponential growth literally is amazing to me. They might become our overlords in 20 years.

 

[djplaeskool]

I, for one, welcome our Amazon overlords.
Bezos, take the wheel.

HALF of US households have Prime? That's hard to believe.

I think the number is more in the 30-35% range, which is still ridiculous.

 

[slit]

It's just too easy, cheap and convenient. I'm not just talking about Amazon either but a lot of internet retailers. I find exactly what I want for a relatively good price. I don't have to worry about going to a B&M store and worrying if they have it, how much more it's going to cost, etc. This is the way things are going and I live in a state where Amazon does collect sales tax. That changes little about the equation and soon will not be able to be used as an excuse by retailers who had no problem using economies of scale to strangle their local competition in the 80's and 90's but are now going to cry foul.

 

[outunderthestars]

The prices are just too good and the shipping is just too convenient. Ain't no reason to go to a regular store anymore

Sadly this. People are too lazy to do anything to about it.

 

[Draft]

I, for one, welcome our Amazon overlords.
Bezos, take the wheel.



I think the number is more in the 30-35% range, which is still ridiculous.

Even at 30% roughly 100,000,000 people are subscribed to Prime Video. I would think that's a big deal!

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

That's not the deeper issue I think.

It's that most of Amazon's arenas that usurp the current model also do so by employing fractions of the population.

Let's assume Amazon Go becomes standard. That's the death of most retail jobs. Then comes warehousing, transportation, etc.

The issue isn't service, I'd say. It's the usurping of jobs, but the problem's always been jobs.

Do you support Uber/Lyft and other companies pushing autonomous cars? That's going to eliminate a massive industry of work (Cabs, black cab, semi trucks).

You can point to any industry in the world and discuss how something is going to make it obsolete at some point.

We need to be looking beyond this and starting to solve what to do when those times come, instead of just having what-aboutism discussions.

 

[RoninChaos]

The prices are just too good and the shipping is just too convenient. Ain't no reason to go to a regular store anymore

That's kind if where I'm at. The customer service is better too.

I do worry about one company being in control of so much but no one has stepped up to be meaningful competition via pricing, convienece or customer service.

 

[RMI]

Sadly this. People are too lazy to do anything to about it.

I don't know that laziness has much to do with it. It's the best shopping experience.

Why do i need to take extra time out of my life to go to the specific store for each type of thing that I need to buy? Then if I have to return them or get some kind of customer service experience I need to go back to that store with my receipt and find parking and stand in a line and etc etc etc.

Why do we need to cling to outmoded models besides just artificially keeping jobs around?

This is just dancing around the issue that there is a serious problem with offering useful job training to adults so that they can get into new careers after the old job becomes obsolete.

 

[SwordStruck]

Sadly this. People are too lazy to do anything to about it.

...to do anything about what exactly? It's cheaper, more convenient, and they carry pretty much anything you want.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

People need to realize that we are rapidly approaching a post-labor economy.

 

[slit]

Sadly this. People are too lazy to do anything to about it.

What would you suggest people do about it?

 

[ogbg]

Putting aside their labor practices, why should I drive to a store when I can get the same item shipped to my doorstep? Isn't it worse for the environment for me to be burning gas on a two-way trip to acquire one item when it could be delivered on a route instead?

Why would you put them aside?
The only reason why you can have the item shipped to your doorstep is their labour practices.

 

[Easy_D]

Yea but amazon delivers to my door so why should I care

Spoiler

/s

 

[outunderthestars]

Theres a little bit more to it than good prices and good service. From the reports summary of Monopolizing the Economy:

• Amazon uses its vast financial resources to sell many products below its own cost as a tactic for both eliminating competitors that lack similarly deep pockets and hooking customers into its Prime ecosystem, which sharply reduces the chances they will shop around in the future. (Pages 15-16)

• By using Prime to corral an ever-larger share of online shoppers, Amazon has left rival retailers and manufacturers with little choice but to become third-party sellers on its platform. In effect, Amazon is supplanting an open market with a privately controlled one, giving it the power to dictate the terms by which its competitors can operate, and to levy a kind of tax on their revenue. (Pages 17-19)

• Amazon leverages the interplay between the direct retail and platform sides of its business to maximize its dominance over suppliers. As it extracts more fees from them, it’s hollowing out their companies and reducing their ability to invent and develop new products. (Pages 18-23)

• Meanwhile, Amazon is rapidly expanding its own product lines, using the trove of data that it gathers from its platform to understand its suppliers’ industries and compete directly against them. Many of these Amazon products appear at the top of its search listings. (Pages 24–25)

• Amazon is fueling a sharp decline in the number of independent retail businesses, a trend manufacturers say is harming their industries by making it harder for new products and new authors and creators to find an audience. (Pages 25-28)

• Amazon poses a particular danger in the book industry, where its power to manipulate what we encounter, remove books from its search results, and direct our attention to select titles threatens the open exchange of ideas and information. (Page 28)

• Already there’s evidence that Amazon is using its huge trove of data about our buying habits to raise prices, and it’s also started blocking access to certain products, charging higher prices, and delaying shipping times for customers who decline to join its Prime program. (Pages 29-30)

• To focus too much on prices, though, is to miss the real costs of monopoly. Amazon’s tightening grip is damaging our ability to earn a living and curtailing our freedom as producers of value. New business formation has plummeted over the last decade, which economists say is stunting job creation, squeezing the middle class, and worsening income inequality. (Pages 30-31)

This is not healthy.

This really should be in the OP.

 

[OceanBlue]

People are going to move to online retail and, in that space, larger companies accumulate advantages due to economies of scale and discoverability and aren't bound by locality like traditional retail would be. You can only do so much to try to prop up local retailers, but to me it's just delaying the inevitable. The government has definitely been too slow to look at some of the advantages and practices that Amazon employs, but I'm not convinced that if you take those away, there's going to be some revival of small or local retail.

 

[shira]

The prices are just too good and the shipping is just too convenient. Ain't no reason to go to a regular store anymore

I feel bad for all those early Amazon competitors. Can't even remember their names anymore

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

What do people against Amazon want here? Those mom and pop stores in every town will never come back. If Amazon didn't exist another giant corporation would take its place, most likely Walmart.

 

[bionic77]

What do people against Amazon want here? Those mom and pop stores in every town will never come back. If Amazon didn't exist another giant corporation would take its place, most likely Walmart.

It's not Amazon it is technology and capitalism working together to fuck up a lot of shit.

Amazon is the biggest so they get the most hate.

 

[Majora]

They are just too good right now. I get all my games and stuff from Prime. Super convenient.

I don't know what it's like in the US but in the UK they are not competitive at all when it comes to new releases or pre-orders. It's really easy to find games cheaper than them on the dedicated gaming retailer websites. Even though I have Prime I hardly ever order games from them.

It does slightly worry me that the more of the market they control the less competitive they will try to be on prices. You can already see in certain areas that they don't even try offer cheap prices because they know a lot of people will just order by default from them anyway.