AMD CEO Lisa Su describes key gaming partnerships with Sony, Microsoft: We're helping them with their 'secret sauce'.

#3
Basically the expected customizations. Sony will probably add some stuff for VR and CB. Not sure what path MS will take, maybe focusing on reducing AA cost (besides their own version of CB).
 
#11
Basically the expected customizations. Sony will probably add some stuff for VR and CB. Not sure what path MS will take, maybe focusing on reducing AA cost (besides their own version of CB).
I hope is more than that, PS4 async compute customizations, im expecting something cool like that
 
#13
MisteXmedia vindicated... sort of.


Damn i still remember his ramblings on how Xbox had 2 gpus and that for some reason one of them was locked and waiting to be unlocked in later life of console.

The most amazing was the "interviews" he did with "insiders" where they talked how every half a year next game will prove everyone that xbox has 2nd gpu.
 
#14
MisteXmedia vindicated... sort of.


Damn i still remember his ramblings on how Xbox had 2 gpus and that for some reason one of them was locked and waiting to be unlocked in later life of console.

The most amazing was the "interviews" he did with "insiders" where they talked how every half a year next game will prove everyone that xbox has 2nd gpu.
don't forget the dGPU hidden in the power brick lul
Pretty sure the guy was a parody/memer
 
#18
Unless the secrete sauce is ray-tracing, AMD can shut the hell up.
Honestly speaking ray tracing would be great 10 years ago when we didn't have PBR. Right now Raytracing doesn't look as huge jump precisely because we already simulatre (not accurately) various effects ray tracing would do, like surface roughness etc.

IMHO if there is custom silicon i just hope it is custom silicon oriented toward physics and it would be standard feature on AMD cards going on.

It would remove a lot of work from GPU/CPU improving performance AND it would greatly change a lot of games.

It is one of the reasons why i fucking hate Nvidia. They took Ageia promising hardware company that actually provided really fucking cool tech and they basically butchered it and now psychX is just some crappy software stack that reduces performance by 20-30% while delivering garbage and not great physic effects on mass scale.
 
#19
Honestly speaking ray tracing would be great 10 years ago when we didn't have PBR. Right now Raytracing doesn't look as huge jump precisely because we already simulatre (not accurately) various effects ray tracing would do, like surface roughness etc.

IMHO if there is custom silicon i just hope it is custom silicon oriented toward physics and it would be standard feature on AMD cards going on.

It would remove a lot of work from GPU/CPU improving performance AND it would greatly change a lot of games.

It is one of the reasons why i fucking hate Nvidia. They took Ageia promising hardware company that actually provided really fucking cool tech and they basically butchered it and now psychX is just some crappy software stack that reduces performance by 20-30% while delivering garbage and not great physic effects on mass scale.
Nvidida bought Ageia?
 
#23
Honestly speaking ray tracing would be great 10 years ago when we didn't have PBR. Right now Raytracing doesn't look as huge jump precisely because we already simulatre (not accurately) various effects ray tracing would do, like surface roughness etc.

IMHO if there is custom silicon i just hope it is custom silicon oriented toward physics and it would be standard feature on AMD cards going on.

It would remove a lot of work from GPU/CPU improving performance AND it would greatly change a lot of games.

It is one of the reasons why i fucking hate Nvidia. They took Ageia promising hardware company that actually provided really fucking cool tech and they basically butchered it and now psychX is just some crappy software stack that reduces performance by 20-30% while delivering garbage and not great physic effects on mass scale.
the propagation and travel of light is a matter of physics. ray tracing is at its core a problem of physics.

trouble is these RTX cards are up to ~$1,000. I dunno I think sony and MS better find a way to get ray tracing capabilities in their next consoles.
 
#27
If you really want Ray tracing, then next gen consoles are not where you are going to find it (but you already know that, you just wanted to make a snarky remark)
Thing is Nvidia have baked it into their chips and devs have been praising it to high heavens on SM. Surely RT is the next big thing?

If it isn't, what would be for you?
 
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#29
Thing is Nvidia have baked it into their chips and devs have been praising it to high heavens on SM. Surely RT is the next big thing?

If it isn't, what would be for you?
I'm saying it isn't simply because it is impossible, not because I want something else.
A 1200$ gpu can barely sustain 60fps at 1080p doing RT and people suddenly expect a 400$ console to have RT and do native 4k at 60 fps.
RT is only "the next big thing" because Nvidia wants to sell expensive gpus. RT has existed for ages. When the RT craze dies down Nvidia will dig up some other rendering technique to use in their hw and sell more cards.
Good PBR with good GI and a few tricks can deliver results nearly as good as RT at a lesser hw cost.
 
#31
I'm saying it isn't simply because it is impossible, not because I want something else.
A 1200$ gpu can barely sustain 60fps at 1080p doing RT and people suddenly expect a 400$ console to have RT and do native 4k at 60 fps.
RT is only "the next big thing" because Nvidia wants to sell expensive gpus. RT has existed for ages. When the RT craze dies down Nvidia will dig up some other rendering technique to use in their hw and sell more cards.
Good PBR with good GI and a few tricks can deliver results nearly as good as RT at a lesser hw cost.
I get this and you make a good point. I'm just trying to understand why devs are hyping RT if it just isn't realistically ready? One high profile dev even tweeted that he hopes Nvidia's competition and Sony/MS catch up with their next products.
 
#32
I get this and you make a good point. I'm just trying to understand why devs are hyping RT if it just isn't realistically ready? One high profile dev even tweeted that he hopes Nvidia's competition and Sony/MS catch up with their next products.
Probably because having hw features made for it and APIs supporting it makes it easier to use and less hw consuming than before, but the amount of hw power needed is still beyond what consoles can do in the next years.
 
#33
Probably because having hw features made for it and APIs supporting it makes it easier to use and less hw consuming than before, but the amount of hw power needed is still beyond what consoles can do in the next years.
Surely all these devs understand this better than us...makes no sense to be requesting such (practically) useless HW!?
 
#34
Surely all these devs understand this better than us...makes no sense to be requesting such (practically) useless HW!?
Those "devs" are 3rd party devs that also develop for pc, so they need to cater for pc players that have those new RT gpus.

One things devs requested for Ps4 was NO RT hw customizations, but since it is "mainstream" now, the conversation changed.
 
#35
Those "devs" are 3rd party devs that also develop for pc, so they need to cater for pc players that have those new RT gpus.

One things devs requested for Ps4 was NO RT hw customizations, but since it is "mainstream" now, the conversation changed.
I'm a bit confused what your stance is then!? Would you like the next consoles to have RT or not?

I just don't understand devs wanting it for consoles on one hand (because PC has it now) but on the other if it is there, it will be useless as consoles aren't powerful enough to make decent use of it.

I'm sure if devs are tweeting about wanting the consoles to have RT then I'm even more sure those same devs would be requesting it when Mark Cerny did his PS5 dev tour.
 
#37
I'm a bit confused what your stance is then!? Would you like the next consoles to have RT or not?

I just don't understand devs wanting it for consoles on one hand (because PC has it now) but on the other if it is there, it will be useless as consoles aren't powerful enough to make decent use of it.

I'm sure if devs are tweeting about wanting the consoles to have RT then I'm even more sure those same devs would be requesting it when Mark Cerny did his PS5 dev tour.
I think ColdToffee is trying to say that the hw requirements for RT are not realistic for the next gen consoles.
 
#38
I'm a bit confused what your stance is then!? Would you like the next consoles to have RT or not?

I just don't understand devs wanting it for consoles on one hand (because PC has it now) but on the other if it is there, it will be useless as consoles aren't powerful enough to make decent use of it.

I'm sure if devs are tweeting about wanting the consoles to have RT then I'm even more sure those same devs would be requesting it when Mark Cerny did his PS5 dev tour.
Deve can want all they like, but for the price of 399-499 releasing in 2 years it is not gonna happen, or it will be a weak sample of RT that won't make much difference. PS6 is where I expect full RT to be used.
 
#39
Deve can want all they like, but for the price of 399-499 releasing in 2 years it is not gonna happen, or it will be a weak sample of RT that won't make much difference. PS6 is where I expect full RT to be used.
I think we just might be surprised, ColdToffee. The dev that tweeted about console/AMD RT is the same dev that flagged 8GB RAM in early 2011. That was crazy talk back then 2.5 years before PS4/Xbox One.

I really think these next consoles will surprise with their custom features over raw paper specs.
 
#40
I think we just might be surprised, ColdToffee. The dev that tweeted about console/AMD RT is the same dev that flagged 8GB RAM in early 2011. That was crazy talk back then 2.5 years before PS4/Xbox One.

I really think these next consoles will surprise with their custom features over raw paper specs.
You can customize hw to make certain types of calculations faster and increase performance by certain %, but you can't make hw make miracles.
People hear about RT and see some demo videos and suddenly everything that doesn't do RT sucks or is not worth it. God of War, Horizon or Spider man look amazing without RT, there is no reason to think that next gen games won't be equally impressive just because the console doesn't do RT. There many tricks devs can use to simulate realistic lighting and reflections. We survived till now without RT, I'm sure we can survive another gen without it.
 
#41
You can customize hw to make certain types of calculations faster and increase performance by certain %, but you can't make hw make miracles.
People hear about RT and see some demo videos and suddenly everything that doesn't do RT sucks or is not worth it. God of War, Horizon or Spider man look amazing without RT, there is no reason to think that next gen games won't be equally impressive just because the console doesn't do RT. There many tricks devs can use to simulate realistic lighting and reflections. We survived till now without RT, I'm sure we can survive another gen without it.
Hey, you might well be right. At he end of the day I'm not a dev and so trust if devs are shouting about wanting/needing something they know what they are saying/doing.

On another note...does anyone remember names of insiders/devs on GAF? I can't believe none are talking or hinting about next-gen yet. Would be nice to get more insight from those in the know.
 
#45
trouble is these RTX cards are up to ~$1,000. I dunno I think sony and MS better find a way to get ray tracing capabilities in their next consoles.
you shouldn't compare Nvidia's overpriced consumer prices to next-gen consoles prices, that's not how consoles business work console launch prices are much more closer to primecost + 50$ to 100$ revenue, for example nvidia's RTX chip cost to make only around 60$, most likely next xbox, ps5 SoC will cost bit more to make and it's 7nm which reduces costs even more, i think there's real possibility we could see Ray tracing cores in next gen hardware.
 
#46
Basically the expected customizations. Sony will probably add some stuff for VR and CB. Not sure what path MS will take, maybe focusing on reducing AA cost (besides their own version of CB).
I wouldn't be surprised if VR is dead and buried by the time the PS5 comes out. It's looking pretty grim for that crap.
 
#47
I wouldn't be surprised if VR is dead and buried by the time the PS5 comes out. It's looking pretty grim for that crap.
VR has amazing potential that current gen doesn't have the power to achieve. It would be a shame if Sony didn't invest in VR for PS5. Most of the R&D cost are already done, improving the VR hardware for PS5 will be much easier now. Gaming is only one of VR possibilities, it can also be used for education (like virtual museums) and it is already being used in medicine (as a complement for physiotherapy treatments). The more popular and mainstream it becomes the more all those areas will benefit from it.
 
#48
VR has amazing potential that current gen doesn't have the power to achieve. It would be a shame if Sony didn't invest in VR for PS5. Most of the R&D cost are already done, improving the VR hardware for PS5 will be much easier now. Gaming is only one of VR possibilities, it can also be used for education (like virtual museums) and it is already being used in medicine (as a complement for physiotherapy treatments). The more popular and mainstream it becomes the more all those areas will benefit from it.
No one's even scratched the surface of the bottomless R&D pit required to actually get VR to where people imagine it should be. That's a lot of the problem. People want The Matrix. They don't want to push phone LCDs against their eyeballs while wearing a sweaty helmet. As Mike Abrash has gone into great detail about, basically none of any of the big questions are even understood yet let alone "done."

Can't see Playstations seriously being used for medical applications, either. There's just something inherently contradictory between the wild west experimentation that VR's going through right now and locked down draconian walled garden platform holders like Sony. You can't just "try" stuff on a locked down platform like that without jumping through 5 billion hoops. I think this is part of the reason the Vive's blown Oculus out of the water in sales. Facebook's transparent attempt to lock everything down is at odds with the whole sales pitch to VR devs.

I think it's also important to note that, relative to launch, the PS Move sold more units than the Playstation VR's sold at the same point in its lifespan. I wouldn't get my hopes up on VR. There's still absolutely no indication that anyone has a compelling use case for it.
 
#49
No one's even scratched the surface of the bottomless R&D pit required to actually get VR to where people imagine it should be. That's a lot of the problem. People want The Matrix. They don't want to push phone LCDs against their eyeballs while wearing a sweaty helmet. As Mike Abrash has gone into great detail about, basically none of any of the big questions are even understood yet let alone "done."

Can't see Playstations seriously being used for medical applications, either. There's just something inherently contradictory between the wild west experimentation that VR's going through right now and locked down draconian walled garden platform holders like Sony. You can't just "try" stuff on a locked down platform like that without jumping through 5 billion hoops. I think this is part of the reason the Vive's blown Oculus out of the water in sales. Facebook's transparent attempt to lock everything down is at odds with the whole sales pitch to VR devs.

I think it's also important to note that, relative to launch, the PS Move sold more units than the Playstation VR's sold at the same point in its lifespan. I wouldn't get my hopes up on VR. There's still absolutely no indication that anyone has a compelling use case for it.
I'm not saying using psvr for educational or medical purposes, I'm saying using VR. Oculus needs psvr to succeed as much as psvr needs Oculus to succeed. Because the install base is small and its a new "tech", sales of the competition are good for awareness of the tech existence.