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American men’s hidden crisis: They need more friends!

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That's interesting. I make friends all the time, but there are only a couple that are close. I've never had a woman I could open up to though, outside my family. I tried multiple times with my ex, and every single time it backfired badly.

It feels like I'm the one people go to for help and advice. When the shoe is on the other foot, things tend to fall apart.
 
What a terrible and generalized article. As a straight white male, I highly value my friendships and am very intimate with my friends that I have had since the 4th grade. If I need to talk about anything, I know I can call any of them any time. And I have found it much easier to develop friendships since college, because I understand now different people can offer different experiences.
 
Straight guy here.

The only friends I've ever had were "shoulder to shoulder"; One when I was seven or eight, the other two when I was 16-ish. Otherwise, nobody outside of my immediate family, and none currently.

I didn't really care about making any in between those periods; In fact, I met my teenage friends by chance instead of some active attempt to make any.

I suppose I should be troubled by the situation, but it isn't really much of an issue for me. My family is nice, at least when I see them, and while I enjoyed having friends, I just have more important things to be doing right now. It just is what is, I guess.
 
I still search meetup.com for lan parties every now and again and nothing ever comes up. If only there was a way to play on LAN that connected to peoples houses. You'd almost need to talk on the phone while you play though... hmm interesting.

What?
 
real friends, I can count them on the fingers of one hand.

In North America, more so in the US, we are too career oriented, in a rush hour state of mind. We pay less attention to the importance of friends and family that latin people have, especially Southern Europeans have.

In consequence, when things go wrong at work when then feel utterly alone because of our lack of friends in our rush hour life style
 
Male friend, introverted -> you never get pussy when you're with him

Male friend, extroverted -> talking about serious things with him is likely to get him watch you and go "what the fuck man"

Female friend, whatever -> you can talk about whatever, and you can still get pussy

Most of my great friends in my life have been men, but they tend to do the dumbest shit and never really say what they want, it's frustrating. Female friends are usually much lower maintenance, and you can chat of non "male" things all the time without feeling judged constantly.
 
Don't wiki me. I had so much free time some years ago. Not only did I find a solution to my disease all by my fucking self - if I hadn't found it, I would be dead by now, but I also read a crazy amount of personal stories. Which in turn made me think and made me find that solution. And on top of that I got my personal experience, my personal extreme nightmare, that happened at exactly that time too. And on top this is about psychological behaviour. I'm pretty young, but I lived a few years the life of an old man. And it wasn't pretty.

Doesn't matter, stop whining.
Read these wiki links and stop causing distractions.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

What a terrible and generalized article. As a straight white male, I highly value my friendships and am very intimate with my friends that I have had since the 4th grade. If I need to talk about anything, I know I can call any of them any time. And I have found it much easier to develop friendships since college, because I understand now different people can offer different experiences.

Big whoop, you're an outlier, an aberration. That means nothing.
 
Yeah, that's kind of a problem for me. I'm always willing to listen to both male and female friends, which I've got about equal amounts of. But I don't really open up to any of them just because of social conditioning from when I was younger.
 
I think broships are one of the most important things. I have two bros in my life. We talk about everything from pointless shit to the stresses currently going on. While I may not have very many male friends, the ones I do have, I'm really tight with. Sexual satisfaction is secondary to my social needs.
 
I mean, I think this article was very much just stating the obvious to me, but rather than viewing these "shoulder to shoulder conversations" as a hinderance, as an RA, we would actually use this communication method to have more serious conversations with our residents, since most guys are uncomfortable talking about emotional/serious stuff.
 
I have a small handful of close guy friends that I can trust with anything without fear of being judged or looked down upon. We've known each other for a long time and have supported each other through many life experiences, whether it's playing hockey, moving to new cities, getting into or out of relationships, anything. It's good to have friends like that outside of a significant other. We are 26, we make sure to have guys nights on a regular basis etc. That said, friendships like that don't happen overnight and I can see how it can be difficult for many to get to that place.
 
The people I work with are my closest friends. Someone needs help, it's not who will help but who isn't going to help. Then again I'm military working with crew chiefs.
 
I certainly need more friends. I went from a large group in high school to a clique in college to one man wolfpack as an adult.

Damn shame really.
 
Not surprising. In high school I had a group of core friends that hung out.

Then college came and I grew a new group of core friends.

Then after college came, everyone moved away, got married, had kids and are too busy to hang out unless you ask them 6 months in advance. In which they will come up with some excuse a day before or day of to not show up.

Pretty much leaves me with no one nearby anymore when I need a friend to hangout with. I had a short relationship that broke it off, needed out the house, and no one was around to join me.
 
I dont think I've ever seen my dad hang out with friends. He goes to church and work and is social there, but as far as I know thats where his social life ends
 
That's interesting. I make friends all the time, but there are only a couple that are close. I've never had a woman I could open up to though, outside my family. I tried multiple times with my ex, and every single time it backfired badly.

It feels like I'm the one people go to for help and advice. When the shoe is on the other foot, things tend to fall apart.

same here. I think the biggest issue is being able to separate between good friends, friends, and people who are associates (IE their fun to hang out with but you don't go beneath the surface).

I make male friends/associates all the time because 1) I can tell a pretty good joke 2) I try to keep my word 3) i don't talk about people behind their backs 4) I rarely try to get deep with anyone except my 5 closest friends and even then I rarely explore my feelings deeply or dwell on stuff for long because honestly I try not to get to emotional on purpose. (emotions in my experience leads to mistakes)

With women though I'm usually so focused on the physical stuff that I tend to forget the emotional stuff because I recognize it usually ahead of time as infatuation and/or lust. I don't know male relationships aren't usually emotionally based. My friendships are based more on shared history and a common pov towards life.

As for female friends everyone i ever had, has either end up dating me or one of my friends and then "friend with a couple" rules start to apply.
 
I was gonna sleep and I was just reading on my phone, but man mumei because of this thread I had to start my computer. I feel so hit by it that it hurts inside, cant thank you enough for posting it. This have been troubling me for a while.

I have plenty of male friends, some of them since a long long time back. Some of them could probably be the emotional intimate male friends that I am lacking but the fault is with me. I dont know but I lack the capacity to discuss anything remotely serious about me with a male friend. University-friends of mine have even implied it, but that just makes me uneasy for a second and then I shake it off.

I think it has to do with the mentality I grew up in. A real working class background. My father or really any grown up men that I known, have always been "fixers" constantly helping other people out, but if they needed something they would just bite there lip and do it as good as they can by themselves. My oldest friend even has a saying along the lines of: "A real man takes care of his own business".

I dont know how to fix myself in this regards. The only solution I can think of is: "Pull your bootstraps, man up and be more emotional with your male friends if your need to, no one should have to do it for you". Which is highly ironical, I can see my faults but all my solutions even further my faults.
How does this work exactly? Please cite sources.
The wording might have been pretty bad and he didnt really explain his stance as he probably should have done, but cite sources, really? Wouldnt an explanation of his stance and why he felt like holding it be enough, it is a forum after all and not a scientific database.

I do feel that women, or even more, the way men are expected to act before women(by society as a whole) are playing a big part here. I cant see a different explanation for my own behaviour, I was taught that a man should be able to take care of himself and his family, and he should do it quietly.
 
Most of my new friends after I graduated from university have been roommates. Kind of a bummer because of the whole short tenure thing, but I still keep up with a lot of people who I have known for more than ten years.
 
Not surprised at all by this. There's a reason I spend so much time on GAF. There's just certain things I can't talk to anyone in "real life" talk about.

-cough-
 
Gay male here (approaching his mid 30s) and virtually all of my close friends are straight men. I define close friend as someone who is willing to do anything for you, listen to you cry, pours out his soul to you, that kind of thing. I'm very lucky in that regard to have so many amazing men in my life. I don't tend to connect to overly macho people so that's why most of my friends are in touch with their more feminine (and awesome) side. A little weird I have no gay friends but I've never been able to connect to my brethren all that well.

As a teenager, I mostly had female friends but I found those diminishing throughout my 20s. I've gotten a few in my life in the last year and it's been a nice change of pace. These relationships are all long-distance, btw. These days, that's the norm because everyone is moving around, starting families and such.
 
I'm a white heterosexual male in the midwest and I feel this article is dead on. I have had at any one time only one good friend I could confide in since puberty. Even then, past that age, it was difficult to be able to open up to them. I haven't had a friend, really, since my last friends from college moved away for work. The last friend I had was in 2006. I've had a few starts and tries since then, but each person has moved away (usually for a new job) before any real intimacy in the friendship.

I work in the social work field. I'm surrounded by women and have no real opportunity for male companionship. The only intimacy I've had for almost a decade now has been with a series of monogamous long-term relationships, with women. You hit your early or mid-thirties and it's near impossible to engage in any real friend-finding. Everyone's either busy with their family or already has their own stable of friends that they have been lucky enough to keep since college.

It's kinda rough and I know I'm not alone in this phenomenon.
 
Bro, no homo culture.

As a gay man, all of my really good, platonic friendships are with women... I... Have issues with men so I really can't interract with them...
 
Gay male here (approaching his mid 30s) and virtually all of my close friends are straight men. I define close friend as someone who is willing to do anything for you, listen to you cry, pours out his soul to you, that kind of thing. I'm very lucky in that regard to have so many amazing men in my life. I don't tend to connect to overly macho people so that's why most of my friends are in touch with their more feminine (and awesome) side. A little weird I have no gay friends but I've never been able to connect to my brethren all that well.

As a teenager, I mostly had female friends but I found those diminishing throughout my 20s. I've gotten a few in my life in the last year and it's been a nice change of pace. These relationships are all long-distance, btw. These days, that's the norm because everyone is moving around, starting families and such.
I wonder how much of this "disconnect" has to do with people not immediately settling down into married life in their early 20s? Prolonged singlehood as the norm is a relatively new thing.
 

Yeah, someone should just post the results of the study about "couples, who split up, where one partner got an incurable disease" and then even include the gender for a nice statistic. How would this even work? Someone would search exactly such patients and then ask the patient, if he/she had a girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/etc. right before getting the diagnosis or better: right after the disease got really awful. And then also ask the ex-partner. Great idea, that's not completely sick or anything and surely everyone would answer truthfully.

Or maybe even worse: study about "friends, who left an incurable patient alone". How would this even work out? Ask the patients, if he/she had any friends and then get their addresses, visit them and ask them out? I surely bet most people in that position will create their own reasons, why they left someone. And the patient has more important issues than filling out questionnaires, trust me.

And no, I wasn't left by some girlfriend back then. Plenty of friends left me though. Anyway the whole reason for me to study all sorts of other patients was to figure out, if the regular treatment (that is fucking up the immune system) would/could work out. Noticing the personal and psychological situation was just a sideeffect of this. Primary result was: I couldn't find a single patient, where this worked long-term. As soon as doctors fucked up the immune-system, it got worse and worse. Some faster, some slower, but it always got worse. That's why I researched experimental medical treatments. And I definitely got that one right, because in fact the same thing happened to me. And even a chemo therapy worked at first, but then stopped working after a few weeks. But I was actually mentally prepared for this.

And here a few sources.
Hopefully that's enough evidence. I personally consider most of that common knowledge.

Men going to doctors way later than women:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8154200.stm

This goes even further:
http://www.apa.org/research/action/men.aspx
Psychologist Aaron Rochlen, PhD, of the University of Texas, says that research shows that the men who need mental-health services most are the least interested in getting help. ... have been documenting how the traditional male role - which restricts emotional expression and encourages a pre-occupation with success, power and competition - is associated with negative physical and psychological consequences, such as depression, anxiety and relationship problems.

According to NIMH, doctors may also overlook the signs of depression in older men. ... Yet it is critical to identify depression among the elderly because they, especially older white males, have the highest rates of suicide.

And about that men prefer to be alone in a stress situation (pain, etc.).
http://taylorlab.psych.ucla.edu/200...es to stress in females_tend-and-befriend.pdf
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(can't copy the text out, sorry)
 
It seems friendships stop when people hit workplace status.. Why is that? Man's a social animal by nature. You make friends by doing things with people who like doing things which you also like doing so when you do them together you become friends.

Basically open up, if you act distant, the other person will get the signal. If you find it difficult to open up with co-workers, try to figure out why is that. Is it just co-incidence you got bundled up with a bunch of ass-tards or maybe you're in the wrong line of work with people who you can't relate with?
 
It seems friendships stop when people hit workplace status.. Why is that? Man's a social animal by nature. You make friends by doing things with people who like doing things which you also like doing so when you do them together you become friends.

Basically open up, if you act distance the other person will get the signal. If you find it difficult to open up with co-workers, try to figure out why is that. Is it just co-incidence you got bundled up with a bunch of ass-tards or maybe you're in the wrong line of work with people who you can't relate with?

Frienships require time and attention. When you're working all the time, you just come home and want to relax. Forget about it you want kids.

Not saying it's not impossible of course. It just that they require more effort and aren't just automatic like school.
 
Sounds a whole lot like my life. I have one friend I confide in, she knows a lot, everyone else just gets the basics because I really don't feel comfortable with them knowing.
 
I am taking friendship applications starting now. While there is a $40 application fee, please feel confident that my friendship yields several benefits that more than make up for any upfront costs.

I will need at least 3 references from current friends, however.
 
the only close friendships i've fostered after college have been with women. i barely do anything with male friends because i barely have any friends at all.

except GAF.

:(
 
I think this is really it. Intra-gender competition is always a thing, but as a guy, you can definitely feel the testosterone raging through you and through others.

I also think guys tend to bond more over shared goals. How often do guys wax nostalgic over "army buddies", for example? And in Anglo-Saxon England, where femininity was basically a non-factor in most guys' lives, men drew SUPER close being on the battlefield with one another. You can read old epics and read of guys kissing one another on the cheek, exchanging emotion freely, etc. There's not much of a chance to connect in such a manner in the context of modernity, methinks, and that's the deeper issue.

I don't think it's a function of modernity; even as recently as the nineteenth century we can read accounts of male friendships that are emotionally intimate in such a way that they can be misread as homosexual. It is this conflation of masculinity with heterosexuality that took place over the early decades of the twentieth-century that I think is at the heart of this, if we're talking historically. As Chauncey explains in Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, 1890-1940 (a magisterial work that completely transformed my understanding of pre-1960s American gay life when I first read it):

This book argues that in important respects the hetero-homosexual binarism, the sexual regime now hegemonic in American culture, is a stunningly recent creation. Particularly in working-class culture, homosexual behavior per se became the primary basis for the labeling and self-identification of men as "queer" only around the middle of the twentieth century; before then, most men were so labeled only if they displayed a much broader inversion of their ascribed gender status by assuming the sexual and other cultural roles ascribed to women. The abnormality (or "queerness") of the "fairy," that is, was defined as much by his "woman-like" character or "effeminacy" as his solicitations of male sexual partners; the "man" who responded to his solicitations - no matter how often - was not considered abnormal, a "homosexual," so long as he abided by masculine gender conventions. Indeed, the centrality of effeminacy to the representation of the "fairy" allowed many conventionally masculine men, especially unmarried men living in sex-segregated immigrant communities, to engage in extensive sexual activity with other men without risking stigmatization and the loss of their status as "normal men."

[...]

Heterosexuality had not become a precondition of gender normativity in early-twentieth-century working-class culture. Men had to be many things in order to achieve the status of "normal" men, but being "heterosexual" was not one of them.

[...]

In a culture in which becoming a fairy meant assuming the status of a woman or even a prostitute, many men, like the clerk, simply refused to do so. Some of them restricted themselves to the role of "trade," becoming the nominally "normal" partners of "queers" (although this did not account for most such men). Many others simply "did it," without naming it, freed from having to label themselves by the certainty that, at least, they were not fairies. But many men aware of sexual desires for other men, like the clerk, struggled to forge an alternative identity and cultural stance, one that would distinguish them from fairies and "normal" men alike. Even their efforts, however, were profoundly shaped by the cultural presumption that sexual desire for men was inherently a feminine desire. That presumption made the identity they sought to construct a queer one indeed: unwilling to become virtual women, they sought to remain men who nonetheless loved other men.

The efforts of such men marked the growing differentiation and isolation of sexuality from gender in middle-class American culture. Whereas fairies' desire for men was thought to follow inevitably from their gender persona, queers maintained that their desire for men revealed only their "sexuality" (their "homosexuality), a distinct domain of personality independent of gender. Their homosexuality, they argued, revealed nothing abnormal in their gender persona. The effort to forge a new kind of homosexual identity was predominantly a middle-class phenomenon, and the emergence of "homosexuals" in middle-class culture was inextricably linked to the emergence of "heterosexuals" in that culture as well. If many workingmen thought they demonstrated sexual virility by playing the "man's part" in sexual encounters with either women or men, normal middle-class men increasingly believed that their virility depended on their exclusive sexual interest in women. Even as queer men began to define their difference from other men on the basis of their homosexuality, "normal" men began to define their difference from queers on the basis of their renunciation of any sentiments or behavior that might be marked as homosexual. Only when they did so did "normal men" become "heterosexual men." As Jonathan Katz has suggested, heterosexuality was an invention of the late nineteenth century. The "heterosexual" and "homosexual" emerged in tandem at the turn of the century as powerful new ways of conceptualizing human sexual practices."​

I see the shift you describe as being caused not by "modernity" in some abstract sense, but by modern conceptions of masculinity that discourage emotional openness between men, even as men say that they want precisely that. And I don't think that the intra-gender competition explanation makes sense here. I think this has, as the article states, this has more to do with popular conceptions of masculinity - homophobic bullying is simply a form of gender policing when you get right down to it, and the move Way describes of boys going from embracing face-to-face style friendships when they are younger to shunning them as unimportant when they are in early adolescence seems to be a function of social processes that Pascoe describes. If this were caused by intra-gender competition, such as beginning to see other boys as possible competition for girls or increases in testosterone wrought by puberty, you wouldn't expect to see the sort of friendships that you described - the same sex emotional intimacy would start to end around the same time as it does now.

Interestingly I actually read an article recently about boys showing more emotional openness / vulnerability online, mostly through Facebook posts, and that these essentially public expressions of emotional openness were encouraged by girls (and presumably read by other guys as well) - but that the walls still came back up in school. I wish I'd saved it, because I can't find it right now.
 
I have two really 'best' friends, both from high school and male. I made new friends too at college, but those are more shallow and activity based.

To be perfectly frank, I don't really think I'd be able to open up to anyone of them. I'm a very closed and guarded person, when it comes to my emotional vulnerabilities.

I think this shift occurred to me in middle school, which was a horrible, horrible 2 years.
 
True for me. I'm Single, just turned 32. And really no friends. Well I have 2 male friends from my old job at the University, but they are both in their early 30s, married, and have young children. So our friendship is basically chatting back and forth, day to day on googletalk. And maybe once a month they escape away to go to a movie with me.

I guess I'm at the age where I should be focusing on my growing family. But I'm single so......I just go to work, the gym, and sit on the internet.
 
I made a lot of friends during junior high and kept most of them.

Then I stopped making friends in high school.

Then I started making them again in college.

I've still always been very slow and bad at making friends.
 
What a terrible and generalized article. As a straight white male, I highly value my friendships and am very intimate with my friends that I have had since the 4th grade. If I need to talk about anything, I know I can call any of them any time. And I have found it much easier to develop friendships since college, because I understand now different people can offer different experiences.

Well, no shit it's generalized. They can't exactly write about your anecdotal experiences.

Just because it isn't true for you doesn't mean it isn't true for many, many adult males.
 
Yeah, some guys are too entrenched in this 'masculine' bullshit to the point that if they even sense a tiny bit of closeness that they're not comfortable with, they immediately say "That's really gay". Which piss me off to no end.

I had a friend who was like that. In the end, I got so sick of his insecurities and now I no longer care if I talk to him or not. Annoyingly enough, now he's the one who is eager to talk to me whenever he sees me around. Even waiting around in the gym for hours just to talk to me. But it's too late. The bridge is burnt down.
 
I'm lucky or just rare I guess in that of the four or five closest friends I have, my gf is the only female. I have one friend who I have an intimate, "face to face" relationship with but rarely talk to outside of doing stuff together like playing Dota or poker and it's always bothered me that I can't seem to bridge the gap between this shallow-ness and a more emotionally open friendship, despite that we're both candid with our feelings and conversations. The other three guys I talk to often about all topics and never need something to do when we hang out, just talk over coffee or food or whatever.
 
I'm just shy of 25, and I've never had problems making friends. Moving a lot in school meant I had to be good at it - and luckily, I was.

With that said, I'd argue I really only have three great friends.

One is a best friend, I've known since 8th grade. The other is another best friend, I've known since 9th.

The last one is a good friend from work, who I've just known for a couple years.

Truly though, that's all I need. I'm content with that.
 
I don't live in the USA, but i can still relate to those ridiculously strict concepts of masculinity and about the male gender role, even if for some reason there seems to be a foreign opinion that the importance of male bonding is stronger and better around here, whereas in truth it is even stricter, which is further reinforced by a cultural emphasis on archaic notions of patriarchy being necessary and unavoidable.

Though, admittedly, at that age i was going through the opposite process, contact with drugs has pushed me towards a state of mind and sub culture wherein it was more than acceptable to shun every sort of societal expectation, were it concerned with fashion, language, art, relationships, and yes, gender roles. It helped that the drugs themselves seemed to promote that lack of regard for the authorities that we struggled with when away from that tiny world.

Nevertheless, i had to go trough a very transformative process when i was about... 21? About there. It was the first time i actually had to come up with a solution because i could no longer identify with any of the gender roles. I was experiencing contact with a professional setting for the first time, and i was thrown back again into the "real world", though it is no more real than anything i had lived up until then. I needed new tools and new means, and i lacked both the vocabulary and the knowledge to both express myself and to evolve past all that nonsense. It took me quite a while to be honest, but i came out the other way as a much better person. Not in the moral sense, but in the pragmatic sense. I'm happier and living a far easier life, relatively. And my reality nowadays is much the same as many other posters have talked about. I have near to no interest in having friendships with the average male, with the exception of those i know i can have a truthful and honest friendship with. I don't even care about longevity or the trust attained with it, just the capacity to be open and honest to other people. Or just looking like an interesting person, really. I've found that girls and women are much easier to talk to and to have an interesting conversation with. There is a lot more verbosity in the way they behave, the way they look, and even the way they avoid conversations. They also respond much more to "instantaneous" displays of honest interest and openness.

Nowadays i identify as androgynous, and that informs much of how i behave and think, but half of why i do is out of being pushed to it by contemporary masculinity and the male gender role.
 
I don't have any close male friends, and I really only have one male friend whom I hang out with from time to time. In my experience boys seem too withdrawn emotionally to be enjoyable company as close friends.
 
Personally I don't have very many intimate friends, and I haven't in a long time. I only really feel comfortable really opening up to women. As such I have two women that I can tell anything to. Men? Not as much anymore. I've had a few, but I mostly feel I had too many men turn on me afterwards. I was picked on a ton when I was younger and I think that has a great affect on me psychologically when it comes to becoming really good friends with a guy.
 
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