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American men’s hidden crisis: They need more friends!

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This more or less fits me to a T. My only 'friend' is my wife now. I say if like to have more actual friends, but I have no inclination to try and build a friendship with anyone. I've known people over the years, but I haven't known anyone who is a straight male that I'd consider genuine friendship material since high school. By genuine friendship material I suppose I mean someone I can sit around with and just talk to about whatever the moment brings. I've had 'friends' where we just do stuff together over the years but they're unsatisfactory and drift apart pretty quickly.

Although I've also always been a loner, by choice or not. It's fair to call me antisocial, really. So it's not like I'm really bothered by any of it. I don't know if I believe it but I tell myself that I'm too old for that stuff anyways these days. That there wouldn't be time for it.
 
I agree with the article about women being much easier to talk to about emotions. I'm not going to go talk to the dude bro in home room who I am tangentially friends with about my grandfather dying because

A) I don't think he is mature enough to handle that
B) A girlfriend is much more understanding and consoling (which is who i confided in)

Men at that young of an age are just immature and too wrapped up in the masculine machismo to know how to deal with other people. Including myself. I don't want to be a burden to people. Only those who I know either won't mind or I have a significant emotional connection with already.

Edit: So yes I agree with the article. I am consistently described as antisocial and honestly I am fine with that.
 
For straight male gaffers, does any of this reflect your experiences? Did you emotionally withdraw in your teenage years? Are your emotionally intimate friendships primarily with women? Do you want to have emotionally intimate friendships with other men?
Fairly accurate for me. I have a couple of close male friends but I only open up so much to them. I've only ever really had female confidants. I did withdraw emotionally in my teenage years as well. Though I'm not really sure I'd like to have more emotionally intimate friendships with other men. I'd much just rather figure out my crap on my own. I don't like relying on others emotionally.

This part especially rings true:
So men are pressed — from the time they’re very young — to disassociate from everything feminine. This imperative is incredibly limiting for them. Paradoxically, it makes men feel good because of a social agreement that masculine things are better than feminine things, but it’s not the same thing as freedom. It’s restrictive and dehumanizing. It’s oppression all dressed up as awesomeness.
When people bring up male privilege, the often neglect to note that men don't just get things simply because they have a penis--there's a cost involved. You have set your feelings aside (they're a weakness) and put your mask on everyday. You don't get to let other people in or you'll be shunned (though there's an exception for your girlfriend/wife--but only because it's assumed you're getting laid). You constantly have to prove yourself. You get to exist in this little box. And if you try to leave it or if you are different in some way, you will be mocked, ostracized, or worse (see: our treatment of homosexual men, although I think that's improved some).

But the flipside is that if you are able to successfully navigate through life in this box, you will often project the image of a confident and capable leader. Someone who is strong, not swayed by emotions, who will strive tirelessly to achieve goals (thanks to our socialized competitiveness), etc. And like the article said, these "masculine" traits are valued by society. So you'll be more likely to be land that high-paying job, be promoted, or be elected into office.

Of course, that's not to say that a woman can't have all of those "masculine" qualities or make a good leader. But I don't think women are pressured toward those traits either. Nor are they pressured to achieve higher status in that way.
 
I kept friends around, just made some in college.

I never believed in all that real man kinda stuff, but i knew some dudes in high school who were about that kind of thing.

Maybe its all the stuff I went through, but I feel like friends would be a benefit.
 
Interesting but non-surprising read.

My question is: How much of this is simply how most men's brains are wired, and how much is based on perceived pressures and standards men fixate on in their teenage years (which in turn plays a big role in developing their psyche)?

In other words, is this human nature or are we living in a time that future generations will laugh at? Is our society killing our potential to form meaningful relationships with people of the same sex that is not romantic or sexual in nature, but still intimate (particularly for men, as the article in the OP indicates)?
 
Very interesting article I can relate with on some points.

Sixth grade for me was when I became disinterested in people as friends because everyone had suddenly become too cool for everything like video games and so on. Everyone became meaner, too, and--while I wasn't picked on--people would snipe comments about my weight back then and scoff when they'd find out I still liked Pokemon.

I became very bitter and cold that year, and I never smiled. It was such a huge shift for me to get accustomed to because I was friends with everybody in my class for grades 1-5, and it was fun. I would also have friends over to my house or I'd go to theirs. It wasn't like that one bit in sixth grade, and it made me sad. I stopped communicating with my parents as frequently, too, because I never wanted to discuss school matters, and that's all they would ask about.

Seventh grade and onward were better, but not by much. The damage had been done and I was more careful about who I let myself get invested in, and this mindset continued and worsened in high school. I made maybe three friends during seventh and eighth grade total, and one was my best friend (female), whom I haven't really kept in contact with much lately.

High school was a mess for me and a blight on my life, but I made a few friends, so it wasn't too bad. Unfortunately, I didn't think of them as enough to make my high school life better and, in fact, I never discussed personal matters that upset me with them. I preferred to have fun with them than open up about what ailed me. Instead, I'd listen to their problems and help them out as best I could.

My best friend always said she hoped she were like me, because I never let anything get to me (which was true). I would always reply that it's better to feel than not at all, which is how I felt most of the time. I didn't care about anything during high school: not myself, my classmates, my grades, being in a relationship, making friends, and a whole host of other things.

Ironically, I was (and still am) a pretty excitable fellow when I was with friends, which is probably why they always thought nothing was wrong (honestly, there rarely was. I was just dead inside overall).

I'd say I've gotten better as the years go by, as I'm slowly returning to my former self. And when I say slowly, I mean at a snail's pace, but it's happening. I am slightly appreciative of what I became, though, because it feels like I won't let myself get hurt (as much).

Being skeptic and cynical while being mostly at peace feels like I have my bases covered. I'm still malleable enough to let people in, but I'm just accepting/dead enough inside that I can look past it without feeling much if something happens.

I still have slight opening-up issues, however, mainly because I'm embarrassed to talk about myself. It would feel like I'm making myself vulnerable and be at others' mercy. That feeling scares me. I feel like I'd be able to open up about my issues once I got past them, but, then, there's the rub, isn't it?

TL;DR: livejournal entry

Oh, regarding friendships: I only have one white, heterosexual male friend that I talk to on a mostly-regular basis. It's an online friendship, but that's irrelevant to me. If I could easily hang out with him irl, though, I totally would. What I like about it is that there's no awkward gay vs straight friction. He's my bro.

I have two good gay friends (also online) whose friendships I also value; however, I haven't really kept in touch with one of them because we're on different IM programs and he's always busy, it seems like. What I like about them is that there's no awkward gay vs gay friction. We don't want to get in each other's pants--we're just friends.

irl I have just my best friend after I cut another so-called-friend out of my life recently.
 
True for me as well. My closest friends are almost always female and I talk to them the most about everything. When I'm with my guy friends we just bro around, make jokes that college freshmen would and watch football or something. We don't exactly chat about how we've changed since being here, etc. etc.

And I am so thankful for those close friendships I do have because I would go nuts without them.

Hardest part is trying to stay in the friend zone.
 
Interesting but non-surprising read.

My question is: How much of this is simply how most men's brains are wired, and how much is based on perceived pressures and standards men fixate on in their teenage years (which in turn plays a big role in developing their psyche)?

In other words, is this human nature or are we living in a time that future generations will laugh at? Is our society killing our potential to form meaningful relationships with people of the same sex that is not romantic or sexual in nature, but still intimate (particularly for men, as the article in the OP indicates)?
As pure speculation, I'd say that this is mostly societal. Or maybe genetics that are heavily contingent on societal factors. Many other cultures have varying degrees of male intimacy. In Europe it's perhaps more acceptable for men to embrace and greet each other with a kiss on the cheek, for example. Here in the States that generally frowned upon. We seem to prefer to keep other men at arm's length through a handshake. Though I'm not sure if that translates into European men being more willing to open up emotionally to other males.

It also seems to be situational. Jumping into another man's arms after winning the World Series doesn't seem strange even for "highly masculine" individuals such as professional athletes. It's one of the few times when an outpouring of emotion is pretty much expected from men.
 
I emotionally withdrew in my teenage years, mostly from my parents, but I have always had great friendships with the guys I grew up with who I confided in emotionally and vice-versa.

- My one friend's brother had a nervous breakdown at 17 and was committed, I was there emotionally for him while his parents spent nearly every free moment at the hospital.

- Another younger friend was hanging out at my house when his mom suddenly announced she wanted a divorce, I was there for him through all that and the years and years of him being messed up over it.

We still trash talked each other and joked around, but we've always been there for each other when it counts.
 
I feel that the ones that I could trust were the ones who were around during those early teenage growth stages when I was much more vulnerable and changing. I've grown a lot sense and they've been with me a long time. It is hard for new friends to come close to that level of trust and my need to talk about things heart-to-heart isn't high enough for me to chase that experience exclusively.
 
All my good friends are from my younger years. Anyone I tried to befriend in college are immature, thirsty or annoying. YMMV, obviously, but I find it funny since a lot of people tend to state that a lot of your real friends come from college.

Pretty much this. Do have to admit the article seems accurate though.
 
I feel that the ones that I could trust were the ones who were around during those early teenage growth stages when I was much more vulnerable and changing. I've grown a lot sense and they've been with me a long time. It is hard for new friends to come close to that level of trust and my need to talk about things heart-to-heart isn't high enough for me to chase that experience exclusively.

I think there's a lot to be said for this, too. Friendships built (or sustained) through a crisis situation tend to be amazingly strong. I've been in a very vulnerable place for months and have made some amazing friends in the period who've been willing to go through that hell with me.
 
If I want to talk to someone on an emotional level, I have my SO. If I feel it has to be a male, I've got my brother. I suppose I'm fortunate.

I don't think the macho thing is confined to straight white guys, though. I see it plenty in other groups as well.
Same here re emotional connection with either my SO or my brother. In general I don't feel a huge need to open up emotionally anyway.
 
I completely agree with the article. The only male I've ever been close to is my cousin. We do make immature jokes because we have the same sense of humor, but its also a part of a bonding process, I feel. We also just know each other really well and have so for a long time. We often hangout with each other and we have agreed in the past that we have a uniquely close relationship more so than any other two people in our family.

Although there have been times were I would try to open up more personally about things and he would just back off and do that typical masculine bullshit thing that everyone in here is talking about, and afterwards it would just derail any meaningful topics. But for the most part, we're still able to talk about a lot of things philosophically, seriously and intelligently, and have meaningfully deep conversations, its just that when it comes to personal emotions, things get derailed, and thats a bunch of bullshit. We're all human after all.
 
the older I get, the less close friends I have.

My older brother who was more of a party type has noticed a big shift in his pool of friends, they are all abandoning the party life and leaving him behind. I believe they were never really good friends or close friends to him. He is now in similar boat as me in the friends dept.

As brothers who trust each other, we are family forever and we can freely talk serious at anytime about our individual troubles. The older we get, the better we get along.

Work colleagues come and go, classmates come and go, friends come and go.

Family is forever and I am thankful to have a brother who will always be there for me 'till we both get old.

There is nobody that I trust more on this Earth than my big brother.
 
Article is right on point. I don't think I've ever needed to discuss my emotional state with another guy, whether be family, friend, or foe. Men bond doing stuff together i.e. working out, playing sports, working, videogames, etc.
 
Never really noticed on my part. I could sort of feel it during high school, but never in college surprisingly. I guess I am one of the luckier ones.
 
My wife thinks something is wrong with me because I never call my male friends just to talk. I'm pretty sure if I called one of them and was like "hey just calling to say hi. What's going on?" they'd be weirded out. She calls several of her friends almost every day.

I dunno - I'm OK with it.
 
My wife thinks something is wrong with me because I never call my male friends just to talk. I'm pretty sure if I called one of them and was like "hey just calling to say hi. What's going on?" they'd be weirded out. She calls several of her friends almost every day.

I dunno - I'm OK with it.

That's another thing that I seem to notice. In general, guys don't seem to just want to talk. There was a Family Guy episode that dealt with that... when Peter became more feminine and called Quagmire just to talk, and Quagmire promptly hung up on him.
 
Who needs friends when you can legally buy alcohol.

thank_you_alcohol_april.gif
 
I don't think it is just America either, I notice it a lot in Australia as I get older. Most males social circle seems to contract and get less meaningful.
 
I feel like the outcast at times with my group of friends.

Generally I am pretty empathetic and the more emotional intimate one while they are more withdrawn. It's frustrating but I like being emotionally intimate with them they're neat people.
 
Its interesting you need sources for this but not the original articles explanation, which on the face of it doesn't even make sense.

It's interesting you think blatantly stupid assertions in a message board post are the same as the article in the OP.
 
For straight male gaffers, does any of this reflect your experiences? Did you emotionally withdraw in your teenage years? Are your emotionally intimate friendships primarily with women?
Not in the slightest.

I'd say that my "best" friends are probably still a handful of people I knew from high school and earlier, but I moved across the country after graduating from college and haven't really had this problem. Social hobbies do wonders and I guess I'm fortunate to be in mature enough circles.

On the other hand, said social hobby is almost exclusively male, I live in the middle of nowhere, and I work night shifts, so my dating life has basically vanished into thin air. Doesn't bother me enough so far to make that issue a priority, though.

EDIT: I will say this, though. I don't think I've ever felt the need for any kind of emotional support from another person in over 8 years, when I dropped out of school and nearly killed myself in a car wreck on the same day. I literally haven't gone a week since that day without an extremely clear appreciation of the life that I'm lucky enough to live, so maybe it's partially a case of me just not requiring as much out of a friendship like the author describes.

Who needs friends when you can legally buy alcohol.
To alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
 
This hits so close to home. Ever since college, all of my friends have more or less been women. It's just hard for me to bond with men for whatever reason.
 
This article does bring to mind some questions, though. For straight male gaffers, does any of this reflect your experiences?

No, neither I or the people who I choose to associate with have this obsessive need for emotional intimacy that this article insinuates that we have. Sometimes it develops and sometimes it doesn't, and we take it as it goes (at least I do). There is nothing wrong with having an affinity towards independence as long as you talk to a few people.

Did you emotionally withdraw in your teenage years?

I "emotionally withdrew" in childhood. I have always been a lone wolf who occasionally relates to someone interesting. This is my natural state and it's worth noting that, at times, I have actually endured harassment from both my parents and peers for being who I am. (Interestingly enough, this harassment almost never occurred in high school.)


Are your emotionally intimate friendships primarily with women?

No, I have had (as of this time) a total of two female friends who were not my girlfriend, acquaintances discounted. At least, that is how I see it.


Do you want to have emotionally intimate friendships with other men?

I mean, they have their perks, but I have never felt a need for them even though I have them. Sometimes, I get into the bad habit of forgetting to converse with the people I have these friendships with. Fortunately, these people are usually empathetic.
 
I didn't know being a friendship scholar is a thing. Anyway, I can see this as being accurate. I don't know if they need more friends is the way to phrase it, but more like they need friends where they can have substantial and open relationships with.
 
The article in the OP gives sources for a whole bunch of things, though.

The article doesn't seem to explore the reasons why men might feel it's so important for them to be at the top of the hierarchy, never show any weakness, etc.. but it does seem to say that it starts at around 15-16 years old (in the middle of adolescence). The article says that this is caused by men learning what it means to be real men, but why is it important/beneficial/expected for them to learn this? Why do they feel pressure to start acting this way in the middle of adolescence?
 
Its interesting you need sources for this but not the original articles explanation, which on the face of it doesn't even make sense.

If you click on the article in the OP, you'll notice it's loaded with citations. I know that doesn't come across in the text Mumei posted since he took bare text and not the links.

Honestly I didn't expect him to come back with sources, but I'd have liked to see him put forward some actual argument and try to back it up, rather than a weak one-line "women amirite" type post. The "please cite sources" was not entirely serious, more pointing out the facileness of that post compared to the thoroughness and thoughtfulness of the OP.
 
I haven't had a friend since childhood, so it's hard for me to identify with any of this personally, but I think it sounds accurate from my experience of watching my dad and other male relatives interact with or talk about their male friends.
 
Sad, but the article describes me pretty well. Had plenty of friends through school, but very few kept going long after that. Then I moved across the country and it got worse, and now I'm down to only one person that I keep regular contact with. He's married (and now, with kids), and I'm not, so there's this whole third wheel thing there that makes it awkward so I don't even bother much.

I'm gay though, not straight. I identify a lot more with straight guys in general however.

I guess most people in my situation would seek a relationship, but I've never been very good at that.
 
good read.

as a guy, i find that its very easy to relate to other guys when you're both perverts. I'm a good read of character, but i'm a intro/outro kinda person.

like doing the jerking off motion to each others faces, or when a fine ass girl passes by, say, dayum. if she doesn't hear it, say, 'i said dayum', if she doesnt look at all, just say, 'gawd dayum, are you deaf ? i said dayum'.

works.

im sure a lot of folks meet friends on the internet or message boards, but in my case, i'm pretty much here for the vidya gaems.

there was this one dude though who messaged me a couple months ago, kinda weird; messages were long and abstract about how money wasn't important and living life was simpler when money wasn't needed. hope he's doing ok.
 
it is definitely easier for me to befriend with females... most guys around me are pure competitive selfish animal-like creatures - got hit real good several times by them.
 
The article doesn't seem to explore the reasons why men might feel it's so important for them to be at the top of the hierarchy, never show any weakness, etc.. but it does seem to say that it starts at around 15-16 years old (in the middle of adolescence). The article says that this is caused by men learning what it means to be real men, but why is it important/beneficial/expected for them to learn this? Why do they feel pressure to start acting this way in the middle of adolescence?

Yeah, I agree that it would be interesting to see what specifically causes the shift to happen at that age. Given the age range given, I would expect that it has something to do with the high school experience and what teenagers experience as they enter that phase of their life, but it would be interesting (and probably depressing) to see what shifts between middle school and high school to cause this change.
 
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