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Analyst: With PS4, Sony Forfeits the Future, tablets/phones/GameStick are true future

Tables and phones will not be the future for the market that Sony is aiming: the core gamer. This market is composed of about 150 mil users. This gamers will not change a home console for a tablet. It ain't gonna happen.

The ones that flocked to the tablet/phone market was the Wii audience.
 
Tables and phones will not be the future for the market that Sony is aiming: the core gamer. This market is composed of about 150 mil users. This gamers will not change a home console for a tablet. It ain't gonna happen.

The ones that flocked to the tablet/phone market was the Wii audience.

Excactly just look at the football userbase which is close to 20 million people. Those will always buy fifa and pes on a console. Fuck touch screen controles for football games, nothing is better than a gamepad.

American football will always have around 5 to 7 million userbase and those are like football gamers and want it on a console.

Dont get me started on the 20 to 30 million userbase for call of duty kind of games and battlefield. You will never get the same experience on a phone with touch screen online like you would on psn, steam or live.

fuck this article and the writer.
 
I watched the conference. Sony showed a controller. Then they described what they might do with Gaikai over the next few years. Then they showed one game being played followed by a bunch of videos of games that may or may not be real, and ended with a Ubisoft demo being played off of a PC. It felt rushed. Not sure why they felt the need to do it other than desperation for some attention. They certainly weren't ready, and that was obvious.

Yep, said that yesterday.

It was clearly a pre-emptive strike, I'm just not sure why they needed to. I thought Sony wanted Microsoft to show their hand, and I think that would have been the smart play. The fact that we heard 4GB DDR5 all this time, which was increased from the initial rumor of 2 upon hearing about MS having 8. Then all of a sudden they have 8? It's like Sony is still in that dick measuring contest they've been in since the early 2000's.

I still find it funny they announced a console with actually showing the console. I love the new controller though.
 
I like how people ignore the whole cloud gaming on the go part of SONY's PS4 presentation....
It's quite clear, from a lot of the wrap-ups, that a large number of people at the presentation were not actually paying attention.
To be fair, it's not like Sony demoed these concepts in a way that resonated with their audience. They showcased Remote Play on the Vita. They didn't showcase any remote play/SmartGlass concepts on any other phone or tablet device.

They had a cute little cartoon demonstrating that concept but until there's real-world application for any of these nice ideas, it's baseless. And it's not like we're going to be able to play standard PlayStation games on a tablet or phone without some gimped touchscreen controller.

Hopefully at E3 Sony will showcase some iOS/Android/Vita apps that tie-in to some of their big first party IP launch platform showcase titles. Ones that illustrate how you can engage the gameplay of your friends from a smart device. Ones that actually go a step beyond some of the similar concepts that Nintendo rolled out in Nintendoland. Ones that come off as rewarding and ambitious. Then, that media disinterest might turn around.

Tables and phones will not be the future for the market that Sony is aiming: the core gamer. This market is composed of about 150 mil users.
You've grossly over-estimated that number. Just because close to 150 million PS3s and X360s have been sold worldwide does NOT mean there are 150 million core gamers to mine. Otherwise, I've been counted about 4 times. And that 4 out of 150 million that I seemingly represent isn't sold on buying the Wii U or the PS4 or the Durango right now.
 
He is right. WiiU is failing not because of Nintendo, but because the entire dedicated console business is faltering. I think the PS4 will be loved by enthusiasts but ultimately be a business failure, same for the next Xbox unless they come at this from a different angle.

So you're saying they should all give up on dedicated hardware and start making iOS games?
 
I said something along these lines many months ago:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44358878&postcount=139

But given the unpopularity of the Vita I feel Sony's hand would have been forced regardless. Generally speaking, yes, I agree: traditional home consoles are not the future of growth in this industry. If you're simply looking to defend the turf you already have, they're fine, but a company the size of Sony and in as much financial trouble as Sony can't simply be on the defensive.

I don't think this will be fatal, but it isn't the best move, in my opinion.
 
Come to think of it, we shouldn't expect a balanced view from such analysts. All they really care about is the stock market.
 
Guys let me ask you all something. When have analysts ever been bang on right? Who pays these d-bags to spout this shit anyhow?

Having a home console/media HUB is something there is a huge market for. I personally will always have one. The problem with these analysts is that they see short term trends and project either doom or gloom without thinking like a consumer.
 
Tablets and smartphones now engage more people in more minutes of gaming than consoles will ever achieve.

Yeah, because today, there are a ton of people who would never buy a console, but like to play a bit here and there, just because their mobile device allows it. For cheap.

But that doesn't mean that the core gaming crowd just vanished. I'd say it's bigger that ever before.

The gamers who are really passionate about their hobby and love to spend a shitload of money on games and proudly post their purchases in pick-up-threads aren't going anywhere. And this enthusiastic crowd is also very demanding when it comes to games. They are not pleased with $0.99 games on tablets and smartphones. They want to be entertained for many, many hours. They love to spend weeks with a single game.

This is a big part of the gaming community. These gamers are the very foundation of every consoles success. Companies like Sony would be stupid to start ignoring them.
 
Talking about it and actually doing it are completely different things.
They had a cute little cartoon demonstrating that concept but until there's real-world application for any of these nice ideas, it's baseless. And it's not like we're going to be able to play standard PlayStation games on a tablet or phone without some gimped touchscreen controller.
Yes, but this is an article about an unreleased product being demoed, as a presentation of what to expect in the future. How does Sony promising X translate to an article saying Sony isn't going to do X? You can state you have trepidation or mixed feelings on their ability to deliver, but ignoring it completely in support of making a counter point is poor form.

When reporting on an announcement of a new feature, "I don't think they will do it" and "They have no plans to do it" are not interchangeable.
 
People are delusional if they think smartphones and tablets haven't had some impact of the traditional console model. Look at how absolutely abysmal sales have been for pretty much everything for the past couple years. You can't just chop it up to generation fatigue. So far we've had 3 hardware launches in the past 2 years that have fallen completely flat on their face. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some more happen this year.
 
1_D_FTW said:
Honestly, if PS4 doesn't succeed (and it did everything you could possibly hope for), the console market is just plain dead. I almost think people went to sleep during the talkie parts. Because there was a lot of ingenious stuff laid out. If that's not enough, nothing will be.

I totally agree with your statement. In my own opinion ps4 pretty much delivers on what I was expecting and then some(ok, maybe not that much but still). If this is not enough to turn the ship around, nothing will.

Also about analyst in general, it is their job to forecast sales trends in their markets respectively. Even if they are wrong, and a lot of them are, it is still their job and they have to do it. Obviously from what I have been reading on GAF a lot of what they are looking at is pretty much the same data that is available to any one of us (weekly,monthly, quarterly reports). So I approach his assessment as I would any GAF member, grain of salt.
 
Guys let me ask you all something. When have analysts ever been bang on right? Who pays these d-bags to spout this shit anyhow .. Apple?

I agree, it is definitely possible they are wrong.

On the other hand, they're probably more perceptive when it comes to large scale trends in the industry than they are very specific predictions like total install bases for specific consoles at the end of a generation. But this isn't that; it's generally a recognition that the growth in the gaming industry is everywhere but traditional home consoles. iOS/Android/Portables are growing; so are tablets; so is the PC Browser and F2P space. The Chinese and other asian markets are exploding, and it is almost entirely focused on PC.

Again, it doesn't mean the analysts are necessarily right. Winds can change quickly in this industry. But at the moment, I probably wouldn't be betting on a traditional home console like the PS4 to be a large growth market, which is what Sony really needs.
 
Aw christ on a fucking bike. Not another analyst harping on about smartphone gaming. Two completely different demographics. And if smartphone gaming is 'the future' then why is every major publisher either scaling down or completely shutting down their smartphone gaming divisions..? There's fuck all money in it, that's why, unless you're lucky enough to stumble across the next Angry Birds, Cut The Rope or Draw Something. And that doesn't happen very often.
 
People are delusional if they think smartphones and tablets haven't had some impact of the traditional console model. Look at how absolutely abysmal sales have been for pretty much everything for the past couple years. You can't just chop it up to generation fatigue. So far we've had 3 hardware launches in the past 2 years that have fallen completely flat on their face. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some more happen this year.


This may be true but some people also thought that HD gaming wasn't worth the effort because of the success of the Wii and all of it's 480p glory. Eventually, when the bubble burst, we saw again that it's really the core gamers that keep game companies in business in the long run and not pop-ish titles on tablets. Just look at Popcap and other companies that made it's bread and butter mostly by mobile and bite size games. Riding the trend wave doesn't always last. Also, with the PS4, Sony is embracing the love people have for their mobile devices and allowing consumers to continue their PS experience on those devices. This way, it keeps them relevant in the mobile scene and also show those who are mobile gamers the high quality titles they can only achieve on dedicated gaming machines. I have an iPhone, iPad, Vita and 3DS but when it boils down to it, I rarely play games on my phones anymore because I'm always on the go and don't want to waste it's battery and gaming on the iPad can be cumbersome (I actually read more on my iPad than game on it).
 
It's been said, but Gaikai seems like that link to the future that this analyst is missing.

See, if things do truly go as sour for hardware as this guy thinks, Sony has positioned itself to be able to provide PS4 games to tablets and phones if need be.

We all know hardcore gamers want a console and zero input lag and crisp HD graphics, but you could also stream these PS4 games to phones and tablets in 480p and those casual gamers wouldn't care for the difference.
 
People are delusional if they think smartphones and tablets haven't had some impact of the traditional console model. Look at how absolutely abysmal sales have been for pretty much everything for the past couple years. You can't just chop it up to generation fatigue. So far we've had 3 hardware launches in the past 2 years that have fallen completely flat on their face. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some more happen this year.

I think they've played a role in killing the B tier games. It's clear gamers still love their AAA games, and smartphones and tablets will never replace those, but time is limited, and people are happy to use their consoles for the big AAA games and their smartphones/tablets for games that, traditionally, would have been B tier games on the consoles. That market has been slowly dying out, and there's an argument to be made that smartphones/tablets etc. have contributed to that diminishing market. The 3 hardware launches are interesting, because they're all markets that have been decimated by the effect of the smartphone explosion. Nintendo were basically used as the gateway to gaming on smartphones/tablets, to the point where the Wii is dead in the water, and the Wii U has a difficult future ahead of it.
 
I said something along these lines many months ago:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44358878&postcount=139

But given the unpopularity of the Vita I feel Sony's hand would have been forced regardless. Generally speaking, yes, I agree: traditional home consoles are not the future of growth in this industry. If you're simply looking to defend the turf you already have, they're fine, but a company the size of Sony and in as much financial trouble as Sony can't simply be on the defensive.

I don't think this will be fatal, but it isn't the best move, in my opinion.

I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, mobile is probably the worst place for Sony to invest in. While dedicated home consoles aren't experiencing the massive growth that the mobile market is through the proliferation of tablets and handhelds, it is still growing and companies are finding new ways to monetize the business model. Dedicated mobile consoles, on the other hand, are much further down the path to irrelevance. The people who constitute this explosive growth that you're talking about don't want to carry around an extra device to play games on the go when they already have a decent stable of them on their phone. Consoles like the Vita aren't part of this new mobile market that you're talking about. It's a separate market composed of, essentially, the "corest" of the core. They're people that are willing to shell out as much cash on a mobile device as they would on a home console, even though they most likely already have a phone that has either the whole of the iOS or Android markets available to them and with the mobile device providing an objectively inferior experience. They aren't the people buying the majority of the schlock that runs through mobile markets.

Although console gaming doesn't have the sky-high potential of mobile, Sony lacks the resources to make a dent in the emerging mobile scene, and any money they throw out trying to challenge Apple or Google is just going right down the drain. This isn't true against Microsoft in the console arena, especially if a lot of these pre-announcement Durango rumors are true. Microsoft is making a concerted effort to hit not just casual gamers, but non-gamers as well, and in the process of adding more apps and kinects and social media and Nike and so on and so forth seems to be alienating a great deal of their traditional audience. Beyond that (which is all but assured), I don't want to speculate on Microsoft's increasingly anti-consumer attitude until anything is confirmed, but core gamers seem to be more aware of these sorts of issues than the general public and Sony handily trounces Microsoft in the realm of consumer-friendliness.

Long story short: Sony isn't going to catch up in mobile, ever. It does, however, have a chance to retake the core gaming market. 150 million people bought PS2s. I refuse to believe that they all drifted over to cell phones in the last 10 years.
 
PSo far we've had 3 hardware launches in the past 2 years that have fallen completely flat on their face.

I'd say these bad launches were mainly caused by two mistakes:

- too expensive hardware
- lack of great games during the launch window

Nintendo has already shown how to save a handheld that had a very disappointing launch: Make it affordable, and release some games that everybody wants to play.

I don't think tablet and smartphone gaming was a big factor here.
 
Generally speaking, yes, I agree: traditional home consoles are not the future of growth in this industry. If you're simply looking to defend the turf you already have, they're fine, but a company the size of Sony and in as much financial trouble as Sony can't simply be on the defensive.

I don't think this will be fatal, but it isn't the best move, in my opinion.
The future of growth in this industry is based on an ecosystem, not any one device in any one location, true. But the living room is still a crucial niche in that ecosystem, it's not merely defensive to remain committed to that arena. Not when other big players are clearly interested, like Apple, Google, Samsung, etc., just waiting for an opportunity to open up. And Sony didn't simply pledge to circle the bandwagons on that niche with this announcement anyway. They made it abundantly clear that their strategy extends beyond the PS4 to tablets, smartphones, web, etc. But most ecosystems still have their keystone species and PS4 will likely serve that purpose in the near-term for Sony.

Everybody still relies on dedicated hardware, there's no getting around that yet.
 
I'd say these bad launches were mainly caused by two mistakes:

- too expensive hardware
- lack of great games during the launch window

Nintendo has already shown how to save a handheld that had a very disappointing launch: Make it affordable, and release some games that everybody wants to play.

I don't think tablet and smartphone gaming was a big factor here.

I think it's more like the availability of these new gaming platforms has deprived consoles from the grace launch period. Why buy expensive hardware and wait for games to come when you got those awesome devices in your pocket.
 
I for one will be glad if the Casuals attention goes elsewhere, maybe the gaming industry will go back to making good games instead of dude-bro everything.
 
I for one will be glad if the Casuals attention goes elsewhere, maybe the gaming industry will go back to making good games instead of dude-bro everything.
QFT.smartphone and tablet words should be banned from gaming webs,magazines and forums.Let Gizmodo with that crap.
 
Console gaming is dead blah blah blah. The media gets their panties wet when a new Apple/Android product is released every single year, with ridiculous prices with the tiniest bump in specs. But shit on Sony for not "keeping up" with the mobile/tablet market? Even though a good chunk of the presentation is how the PS4 WILL embrace the mobile/tablet market? lol
 
I agree, it is definitely possible they are wrong.

On the other hand, they're probably more perceptive when it comes to large scale trends in the industry than they are very specific predictions like total install bases for specific consoles at the end of a generation. But this isn't that; it's generally a recognition that the growth in the gaming industry is everywhere but traditional home consoles. iOS/Android/Portables are growing; so are tablets; so is the PC Browser and F2P space. The Chinese and other asian markets are exploding, and it is almost entirely focused on PC.

Wasn't this console generation much bigger than the last one?
 
Sounds like someone who sucks at the type of games offered by a home console, and has only the skill to play the simplistic ones on a tablet or mobile device. Granted mobile games are very popular, but to me it seems that the vast majority of people that play such are people who do not even consider playing consoles. I think it is too soon to be making accurate predictions, but nothing wrong with speculation. Part of me hopes this "analysts" prediction is wrong, but it is possible.
 
The untethered visions of most game designers cannot be realized on touch-only devices.


It's not possible, and no one has proven me wrong yet.
 
I think he's right about PS4s selling less than PS3s. The console market is shrinking as the mobile market takes over. By the end of this generation, there's only going to be one console maker left. Sony is trying to make the PS4 as consumer friendly and mobile as possible. If they build on that throughout this next generation of consoles, I think they'll be able to create something sustainable for years to come. Hopefully they follow through instead of making it just about the box in the living room.
 
....whats this guy talking about? I mean i read his thing twice and it feels like he had to turn this in as homework he didnt want to do
 
My future mother-in-law plays Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja on her iPad. She would never dream of buying a console. Why do analysts feel the tablet market comes at the expense of dedicated consoles? Totally different markets with some overlap. Handhelds I can understand, as phones are actually in a better position for catering to that need -- although I always remember around the N-Gage that people said no one wanted to play games on their phone and that no one wanted convergence -- but smart phone gaming is a looooooong way from appealing to the types of people who play CoD, FIFA, and Skyrim.
 
I honestly don't get his point about glory days, especially when almost the entire opening was dedicated to acknowledging that the landscape has changed and subsequently what they were doing to stay relevant. It reads like he didn't even watch the show. He then goes on to make a number of pointless comments within the context of his argument (Xbox sales... Great?) and fails to really make a tangible suggestion as to what Sony should do instead.

Fence sitting at its finest.
 
Console gaming is dead blah blah blah.

Yes, this is definitely overblown. I think the first sign of stagnation or mild contraction brings out very dramatic, hyperbolic statements.

Wasn't this console generation much bigger than the last one?

It was, but two factors weighed heavily in this:

1) This is only true if you include the Wii, which I would not consider a "traditional console."

2) This generation is/was longer than the last. It shouldn't be surprising when systems at the front of the market for 7 years outsell systems at the front for 5 (or even 4, as was the case for the Xbox 1).

Most of this doesn't represent real contraction (although the consoles have been contracting the last two years, that's mostly a consequence of a generation overstaying its welcome), but it does represent stagnation, especially relative to tablets/phones/PC, which have exploded in comparison.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/ea-ceo-consoles-now-only-40-of-games-industry/

During the PS2 generation, consoles apparently represented nearly 80% of all revenue; now that total is 40%, and almost certainlydropping since that article was created.
 
i dont play games on ios or android. why? because they are crap!

Obviously you're welcome to this opinion, but other people disagree, and they're welcome to theirs.

This isn't really a thread about what you (or I) personally like; it is a thread about the market's preferences more generally. Whether you personally enjoy iOS/Android games or not is irrelevant.
 
GE. Double oven range, double oven stove.
"The future of cooking is here."

I could have saved them the trouble and told them people really just want microwaves.
 
There is some truth in it, but its thinking in the usual Share Holder mentality.. Consoles won't be nearly as big as smartphones/tablets are, true.

That does't mean there is no money to be make on the console market if done properly. You don't need to be the biggest thing to subsist and have a profitable business.
 
He's absolutely right.

No way can a Call of Duty with purdy graphics beat Angry Birds or Fruit Ninja.

I'll stick to my mobile hardcore gaming.

/sarcasm


Seriously why aren't those people living under a bridge being the winos they deserve to be?

People get paid to say stupid, ridiculous stuff?
 
There is a lot of people sticking their fingers in their ears going "I can't hear you, blah blah blah" going on at GAF.

What people don't realize is that once the casuals move away from your business, your business is essentially done. The hardcore market is not large enough and cannot sustain a business the size of Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo. They can support a small boutique shop business, like alienware, but not something that big.

So yes, the fact that casuals gamers are moving on to smartphones and tablets and browser games is a huge problem for companies in the dedicated console business.
 
Can't wait for durango's reveal.

Will laugh hard if it's inferior in every way to the ps4 and the american media praise it like there's no tomorrow...

Something tells me this will come true though.
 
his rebuttal, posted on the comments section.

A big thank you to those of you who were seriously trying to move the conversation forward rather than descending to ad hominem attack. You raised some good points and I tried to respond to most of them (even the personal ones) but I would like to tie these things into a single rebuttal.

First, I am asking a different question than most of you. Many of you are asking the question, "Did Sony make the best gaming console ever?" and come back in the affirmative. I tried to praise the technical achievements in the opening graphs, but evidently wasn't strong enough. Let me be clear: This console is awesome and I may even *buy* one, it's that good. But that isn't the question I'm asking. I'm asking, "What should Sony do to stay viable as a company?" Unfortunately these are radically different questions and even though Sony has just debuted a superior console, it won't simultaneously satisfy the need to keep Sony afloat. Let's be clear here: Sony hasn't had a profitable year in 5 years. It announced another 10,000 layoffs and has restructured the executive suite in an effort to get back on track. The PS4 will not rescue this company. Sony does not have the resources to gamble on another overengineered solution that is beautiful but a financial burden. That was 3DTV. Unfortunately, this year Sony is doing it again with Ultra HDTV. To also push out a PS4 that is beautiful, elegant, and creates photorealistic games that hardcore gamers will love but won't immediately grab 20 million unit sales this holiday season is a mistake.

This gets at my very dangerous claim that Xbox 360 is better than the PS3. I realized I was being a bit loose with my writing when I didn't explain in detail and many of you asked for an explanation (or insinuated there wasn't one) so I owe you one. Take the phrase I wrote, "Microsoft's Xbox 360 is the best-selling and most widely used game console of the current generation" and parse it this way, "Microsoft's Xbox 360 is the best (selling AND most widely used) game console of the current generation" -- the boolean AND in there to signify that both conditions have to be met for the phrase to be true. That's not how I wrote it and even at the time I realized I could have explained in more detail but didn't want to burden the larger point. I obviously shouldn't have shortcut this. In fact, explaining this will further add to my point. I believe this statement for the following reasons: a) The Wii has actually sold the most units, but it is the *least used* console of the three, meaning it grabs fewer hours of attention than the rest; b) yes, Sony has exceeded the Xbox's reach by 1mm, but from all the broadband providers who have shared their IP traffic analysis with me, the Xbox grabs significantly more IP traffic time than the PS3. True, this could mean that PS3 gamers could be doing all of their gaming offline, but that would be its own kind of failure. Mathematically speaking, for the Xbox to be a "better selling AND more used" console all it has to do is get its users to use it for 1.4% more minutes per day than the PS3 (77/76=1.013, or 1.3% more units sold). From the broadband data I have access to, the Xbox has blown way past that threshold.

Why is that important? Because engaging people with the box requires letting them do more than game. Xbox Live Gold members, for example, spend an average of an hour a day watching video on the box. It's not gaming, it doesn't earn respect from the legends of the gaming world, but it does give Microsoft a deeper digital customer relationship, one that the company can monetize more fully (something Sony needs) and can use to bridge to other experiences. That is a necessary element of the next generation of consoles and while Sony letting you push your gaming experience out over the internet is indeed cool, it won't engage a new audience and it won't add dramatically new minutes of engagement to the day of a PS4 user.

Finally, for those of you who chose to make this personal, I knew before I wrote this that gaming is like religion to some people and any suggestion that a favorite prophet has fallen is met with claims of heresy. But I'm trying to prop up this particular prophet's arms (if you get the reference, I'll be very impressed). You should really be hoping my words are read in Tokyo, not disregarded, especially if you want this faith to survive this crisis so that you can eventually argue with me over a PS5 roll-out.
 
I honestly don't think these obviously non-gamer people understand that a console game and a smartphone game are two very different things. The seem to think that "game == game", and that "why would anyone want to play a $60 game on a dedicated video game console when they can play a $1 game on their ubiquitous smartphone?". Well, thankfully there are still millions upon millions of people who understand that the two experiences are quite different and are worth different amounts of money. The PS360 have sold something like 155-160 million consoles combined (and then there are obviously many core gamers who have bought Wiis as well, me being one), so I don't think we should be declaring the video game market dead quite yet. What if casual smartphone gaming is actually expanding the total gaming market (like the Wii clearly did) rather than killing video game consoles?
 
The problem with the these analysis is that they seem to believe the market has moved, when it hasn't really in the sense that they make it.

The generation is just long in the tooth and since these devices don't change, it always reaches a peak and then like any other closed product it ceases to generate the same kind of appeal because other brand new products come out, and then it starts falling down in sales. This usually happens in the final tail of the generation.

With the launch of new consoles, new excitement is generated and consoles become a new product again that offers new and better experiences and the cycle begins anew.

I think handhelds are the ones that most affected. Wii U sales aren't a reflection of poor interest in the market, because 360 and PS3 are outselling it. Wii U sales are a reflection of a product that isn't perceived as either new or compelling enough.
 
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