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Android Thread - 2011 Edition | Stuffed on Gingerbread, Hungry for Honeycomb!
- Thread starter Pctx
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I think manufacturers should step away from making skins and start offering services on the phones. These apps and services can be exclusive to the hardware, I would much rather prefer that over shitty skins.
Google is going to get the UI experience down and everyone should back the fuck away and provide exclusive services like the Atrix is doing. That's what makes me want a phone.
Google is going to get the UI experience down and everyone should back the fuck away and provide exclusive services like the Atrix is doing. That's what makes me want a phone.
Sounds like total wishful thinking to me.Pctx said:
The 2.1 SDK was released in January 2010. In December 2010, Google releases a Gmail update that adds Priority Inbox - a pretty important feature for those who use it - and it requires 2.2. Less than a fucking year for one of the most core Android apps.
It's really clear Google just doesn't give a shit as long as they can continue shipping more and more hardware. So what if some people fall through the cracks. Now, I do think Duarte cares. But one guy alone is going to have a hard time changing the established mentality of the Android team.
I'm definitely buying an Atrix unless AT&T tries to rip my unlimited data plan from my hands and force me into one of their crappy capped options(I use over 200 megs in a given day...and well over 2 gigs a month). Neither option encourages the user to fully tap into the potential of this device, which is...puzzling. The type of person who will buy the laptop dock is going to need more bandwith that AT&T wants them to have. Hopefully they have a fix for that problem, but they probably don't.
But if they let me keep on keepin on with my unlimited data I'm all in on this thing. I love my iphone but after three years I'm bored with the software, and have been eager to see what Droid has to offer.
But if they let me keep on keepin on with my unlimited data I'm all in on this thing. I love my iphone but after three years I'm bored with the software, and have been eager to see what Droid has to offer.
aswedc said:
Priority Inbox was release on Aug 30th, 2010
http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/email-overload-try-priority-inbox.html
The Android Gmail App was updated with the feature in September:
http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2010/09/updated-gmail-app-in-android-market.html
That's pretty quick IMHO.
Prior to the Priority Inbox update on the Android app there was another update that gave the app a huge UI face lift.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
aswedc said:
Fucking WORD. I feel so ripped off. I want to love Android. I really, really do. But I feel so abused...
aswedc said:
I'm sure they had their reasons to drop support for 2.1 on "some" of the GAPPS updates. Wish they were more open about it. That said there are more 2.2 phones out there than any other version of Android:
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html
The number of 2.1 devices will be shrinking, very soon.
Next week all the MyTouch 3G (with headphone jack) phones will be on 2.2. I think this is T-mobiles best selling android device.
aswedc said:
Many manufacturers released updates for their 2.1 phones up to 2.2. If they did not, it's not Google's fault. This is why you buy Nexus if you don't want to deal with Moto, Samsung, etc.
I guess they are dropping the ball a little with no 2.3 on Nexus One right now, but let's wait a few weeks and see.
what did Nexus One ship with... 2.2?
Nexus shipped with 2.1.Futureman said:
All I'm saying is that's Google's attitude about this whole thing. Not our fault if the carriers or manufacturers screw you. We're not going to spend any time worrying about the details of deploying updates or people getting left behind.
aswedc said:
They may well not care, but the whole point (and reason for it being the carrier/manufacturers fault) is to be open and allow them to play with the OS as much as they want, that guy in the interview clearly wasn't all that keen on htc dumping sense all over honeycomb, but it is the price of being open
Ah but how "open" is Android really? Only as open as you want without the Google apps. No respectable carrier or manufacturer could ever ship an Android handset without Market or Gmail.tabsina said:
It's simply a matter of Google electing to say, "Commit to two years of updates, we'll give you some engineering support, or you don't get Market". How much would that reduce Android shipments? Maybe 5%? But clearly Google would rather just continue shipping a billion handsets, even if some unlucky users get left behind.
Do you know why it required 2.2? Because in 2.1, gmail, search, talk, etc were built into the ROMs. There's no way they could update the mail by themselves.aswedc said:
In 2.2, those apps aren't integrated, thus, they can be updated without updating the ROM. That's why you don't have that feature in 2.1. It was a technical thing.
I don't think you can install two versions of the same app in Andriod at the same time.aswedc said:
And even if you could, that doesn't sound like a very smart solution, potentially error-prone, and seems like a lot of people would get confused about which app is which... Unless you mean, only one Gmail app would show up.... but that would require changing the ROM, which they can't do...
Gmail is an .apk, and so are Search and talkservice and everything else. Dialer, Market (Vending) whatever. I don't know what technicalities is preventing Google from offering everything to consumers, but from the outside looking in, everything is just an updatable application in /system/app.
I didn't have 2.1 very long (only about a month), so forgive me for the next question.Lyphen said:
How many updates have you seen for applications in /system/apps in general? Without getting a new ROM update, I mean.
It could be something more than it being a system app, since it's still a system app in 2.2.
Forgive me for not remembering. This whole fiasco was so long ago. I know Google officially stated why somewhere before, I just don't remember where. I remember them talking about what Google said on the android central podcast, once.
I remember something weird about those updates, because with CM, I had to delete the apps I had before I could get the ones off of the market.
Nolimit_SS
Banned
Just installed android on my N900 and dual booting with maemo. Looks cool, gonna play with it some more now and test out some apps, any recommendations? 
Have you even used Gingerbread? The UI changes aren't just changing the shape of buttons, that's just a stupid thing to say if you haven't used it. There's also no random manner to using Copy/Paste in Gingerbread. The only thing I've found that's convoluted is how it works in Gmail, but in everything else it's consistent.jonnybryce said:
That's one thing I like about android's structure. You could update different components of the main apps in pieces and not rely on one big system update.
The ROMs have the apps preinstalled but you can then replace the apps with the current versions on the market place.
Also because of this structure, you can also update the software keyboard easily or even have 3rd party keyboards like swift key or swype.
Apps that have been updated recently includes:
Gmail (added better priority inbox support and hover menu)
Youtube
Maps (3d buildings, compass, vector based maps)
Car Dock
These updates are all pretty huge in itself and would make people lust after gingerbread more but because it's already been released, gingerbread doesn't seem to be as big. Don't get me wrong, there's still great things to be seen in gingerbread, but because of the way android handle apps, we essentially don't have to wait for that big system update to get better functionality.
(note: this is all true as of 2.1)
The ROMs have the apps preinstalled but you can then replace the apps with the current versions on the market place.
Also because of this structure, you can also update the software keyboard easily or even have 3rd party keyboards like swift key or swype.
Apps that have been updated recently includes:
Gmail (added better priority inbox support and hover menu)
Youtube
Maps (3d buildings, compass, vector based maps)
Car Dock
These updates are all pretty huge in itself and would make people lust after gingerbread more but because it's already been released, gingerbread doesn't seem to be as big. Don't get me wrong, there's still great things to be seen in gingerbread, but because of the way android handle apps, we essentially don't have to wait for that big system update to get better functionality.
(note: this is all true as of 2.1)
Insightful, Google clearly doesn't care even though people would fall through the cracks no matter what they do. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't, esp. when you're a company the size of Google where people are just looking for a knee jerk reason to blame them for something. If they take a more restrictive approach with Android and ensure devices get app and OS updates in lockstep, the outcry will simply shift to complaining about slower updates, Google being too domineering, etc. One way or another, someone like yourself will say "Google just doesn't give a shit".aswedc said:
Talk about creating a scenario for people to claim, "Google just doesn't give a shit"...aswedc said:
First this is a logistical nightmare. There are dozens of handsets out there and they continue to proliferate. It's not "simple" to track updates on all these devices AND to also provide "engineering support" as you suggest. That's a significant undertaking.
Second, guess what? Even if Google were to undertake such a massive task, people would still fall through the cracks. What happens if a manufacturer/carrier falls short on their obligations - they aren't keeping a handset updated as proscribed. It's bound to happen at least a few times. What should Google do in that situation, revoke Market access for that handset? Would that be "giving a shit" or "just not giving a shit"? How would the owners of that handset feel, do you think?
Third, you're severely miscalculating the impact on Android landscape this would have. Carriers wouldn't submit to this kind of policy across the board, if at all, so they'd either drop Android altogether and switch to an alternative from competitors, or they would simply stick to the open source core of Android and fill in the blanks themselves. The carriers still hold most of the cards, not Google.
End result, a lot more than 5% drop in Android shipments and a truly fragmented environment that makes all current claims of fragmentation look utterly baseless in comparison.
Mercury Fred
Banned
kaching said:
Want to explain their BS handling of the non-update of Gingerbread for their baby the Nexus One?
Vyse The Legend
Member
Mercury Fred said:
Two very strong possibilities:
1) They want to give a window of exclusivity to the Nexus S, so that there's more incentive to buy one.
2) Nexus One will get the rumored small update to Gingerbread, 2.4, instead of vanilla 2.3.
All the time. I tinker around with my apps in adb pretty often, and move things to system/app so that they'll be there if I factory reset (Sky Map, Winamp, Zeam launcher, etc.) they all work with updates through the market. Some don't, like Kindle after a recent update and Opera, because it needs to install itself in data.zoku88 said:
Reason why you're having trouble with CM, is that it's a custom ROM image, often with customized applications. I know they mess around with Maps and a few other applications, and the reason why they wouldn't update through Market is because they aren't signed the same.
Pctx said:
he hinted at his dislike of it, but reaffirmed the stance that manuf. are still welcome to do what they want... unfortunately. The way they need to fix it is to figure out a way to decouple the OS and the skin, allowing the underlying OS to be updated without the skin being affected.
what are the chances of a wifi only Xoom coming out the same time as the 3g version? I am 100% getting the Xoom but only in its wifi incarnation. I dont want a contract or a monthly payment for cell data.
Wishful thinking of paradigm shift in business model? I think the latter in all things considered. Google has probably asked the "sustainability" question and the resounding conclusion is unless they do something quick, then they're going to have problems keeping up the game even by just shipping millions of units.aswedc said:
I believe the fragmentation that users and critics alike have been heard and I think Honeycomb will be the result of forging new ground. Duarte I think has been asking the question--- so this is how the UI works, but how exactly does it work on the back end? How does that scale?
The reason that I believe this has been happening for a while is because Google cannot sustain Android at this pace they'er going at.
Vyse The Legend
Member
gcubed said:
Tough call. A Wifi-only Xoom was confirmed by Motorola's Latin America GM, and he even said it was coming a month before the 3G one.
However, he was probably talking about Latin America, not Verizon/US specifically. So, it remains to be seen for now. Verizon may force Motorola to hold the Wifi-only model for a window of exclusivity.
I, too, only want a WiFi Xoom; let's pray together.
Vyse The Legend said:
not sure who they want to compete with, but they need to be compelling on price and features to compete with ipad, this includes the availability of a wifi only version at or shortly after launch. I can't wait to get my hands on one!
It's looking as the ipad 2 may be hitting at around the same time as this, so they definitely need to be competitive on features and pricing and hope that Verizon doesn't screw it up for them.
Although I agree, I enjoy a lot of what OEMs have brought to the table. Although Samsung's Touchwiz Launcher is horrible. You can change it using the infinitely customizable LauncherPro.Zozz said:
I love Samsung's treatment of the Phone app. They aped iPhones alphabet scrollbar on the side and added the feature to swipe a name right to call and left to message. And I don't think this could have been done by offering a stand alone app.
JonathanEx
Member
Well, his job is to make Android's UI so good that they don't need to bother 'skinning' it, but as part of the openness has to support skins...Pctx said:
Well, first, their "baby" was soundly rejected by the market. It barely sold. As much as N1 owners like myself and (perhaps to fading degree) yourself like the device, it doesn't amount to a great reason to give it high priority at this point.Mercury Fred said:
Second, this "non-update" isn't exactly out of the ordinary for N1 updates. The only other major update that occurred during the N1's existence thus far is Froyo. SDK was released for that at Google I/O 2010, May 10. N1 didn't officially receive its Froyo build until June 23. Over a month. Android 2.3 SDK was posted Dec. 6. So far we're in the same "non-update" territory as we were for Froyo right now, which managed to get updated...
Third, there's the time of year. The time between Thanksgiving and Christmas is a mess for planning because various employees will be taking vacation and observing various holidays. The workflow and approval process for getting updates like this out will be impacted by people missing from the chain. Better to wait until after the holidays for full support.
Finally, and probably most salient, you're one of the more impatient bastards on this board and don't even try to deny that.
In short, all of above are factors in this "non-update".
cartoon_soldier
Member
AT&T is so fucking confusing
So you guys think Sprint will offer HTC Dual-Cores in the near future. My gf is getting really impatient with the Hero. She hates the Evo and I wont let her get the Epic, I don't think the Evo Shift is the right step forward either.
Talk about dropping the ball, hopefully something is announced soon. She should just end up switching networks and go for the Nexus S. Verizon isn't really offering any sleek looking phones like the Incredible (which I have and what she likes) it's nice but it's going to be reaching a dead end in terms of software support in the near future.
Talk about dropping the ball, hopefully something is announced soon. She should just end up switching networks and go for the Nexus S. Verizon isn't really offering any sleek looking phones like the Incredible (which I have and what she likes) it's nice but it's going to be reaching a dead end in terms of software support in the near future.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
gcubed said:
The 45 nm 1.5 GHz dual core from Quallcomm should be available for production now but it seems like HTC may be waiting for the 28 nm 1.2 GHz version thats due out in 2012. That one should be a beast in overclocking.
Miggytronz
Member
Futureman said:
x2
cartoon_soldier
Member
Does Android have apps for VPN/Remote Desktop?
Wondering if one gets at Atrix, then using the laptop dock if you would be able to use the phone to get actual work done. That would be awesome.
Wondering if one gets at Atrix, then using the laptop dock if you would be able to use the phone to get actual work done. That would be awesome.
tfur
Member
cartoon_soldier said:
WYSE Pocketcloud works, and they have been around forever.
http://www.wyse.com/products/software/pocketcloud/index.asp
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