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[The Faceless Master]

Bur why would apple allow it if they're trying to invest in their own mapping services?
Why allow a far better solution onto your store?

nobody knows if it will get approved or not until it's submitted.

Comparing top 10 paid app stores is meaningless when the #20 app on iOS probably still sells more and makes more money than the #1 app on Android.

it was a discussion on exclusivity.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Bur why would apple allow it if they're trying to invest in their own mapping services?
Why allow a far better solution onto your store?

Because you and your wife and presumably a lot of other people can't live without Google maps.

 

[malyce]

I'm not saying it's bad because google isn't making much money off it, I'm saying it's bad because they've wasted shittons of money on it, and have no power to show for it. What if Samsung decides to fork off slowly into their own thing with their galaxy lines? What if carriers decide they'll push something else, or require more BS on top of the experience than they already do. It's crazy how much power samsung/carriers have over the brand that google spends all day slaving on.

You think the Galaxy line can survive without access to the Playstore and Google apps? Google needs Samsung just as Samsung needs Google. It goes both ways.

As far as the carriers go, with the numbers the Galaxy S/Note lines do, they're in a position where they can strong arm the carriers and by the release of the GS4 they should have just as much say as Apple when dealing with the carriers.

 

[The Faceless Master]

You think the Galaxy line can survive without access to the Playstore and Google apps? Google needs Samsung just as Samsung needs Google. It goes both ways.

Amazon App Suite baby!!!

all they need is Amazon Maps and a nice paycheck and *bam* Samsung Galaxy Fire

Powered by Bing(tm) search

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

You think the Galaxy line can survive without access to the Playstore and Google apps? Google needs Samsung just as Samsung needs Google. It goes both ways.

The problem here is that samsung is becoming bigger than android itself. If samsungs profits keep going on their current trajectory, you should be pretty afraid of what they'll be capable of, and what impact it could have on android. When one company is losing money on it, and another is making astronomical profits on it and still rising, it's hard to deny that this can't end well.

I agree that they rely on it currently. But at the current trajectory on both sides, who knows what will happen. Odds are it won't be great for google though if something does.

Don't get confused here, I'm not saying it's an imminent problem, might not be one for a while. But it's something to think about. It's looming. Anything can happen at this rate.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

You think the Galaxy line can survive without access to the Playstore and Google apps? Google needs Samsung just as Samsung needs Google. It goes both ways.

It would be a massively ballsy move. I just can't see the upside for Samsung since they are doing incredibly well off Android, a huge amount of dev and support is done for them by Google for free, and they get all the polished Google apps.

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[The Faceless Master]

like I said, that's google trying to gain something back by praying to jeebus that this is the year nexus devices completely take off. Nexus 7 was closest. As for phones....there's really not much but samsung. They can disguise it however they want like nexus devices aren't meant to be mainstream products!!!1. They'd kill humans for it to take off.

Nexus brand is another casualty of carriers having too much power over google considering the whole LTE fiasco. Unless people still honestly believe it was a strategic move and they still wouldn't put on LTE even if they could get away with it cleanly.

Sony has been rising as well. one thing they seem to be managing to do well nowadays...

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Sony has been rising as well. one thing they seem to be managing to do well nowadays...

their gaming division is doing well. Their imaging as well. Just need to focus on those 3 things and give up on everything else

Oh also I forgot to say, the fact that samsung is really the only one doing notably well with android at the moment has another issue. The more manufacturers move away from android and onto something else (windows phone maybe), the more chances there are for a third competitor to break in, and once again, unpredictability is not where google wants to be with android.

 

[Snaku]

It would be a massively ballsy move. I just can't see the upside for Samsung since they are doing incredibly well off Android, a huge amount of dev and support is done for them by Google for free, and they get all the polished Google apps.

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Yeah, it'd be like PC OEMs ditching Windows. They're in the business of selling hardware, not software.

 

[Tallshortman]

their gaming division is doing well. Their imaging as well. Just need to focus on those 3 things and give up on everything else

Oh also I forgot to say, the fact that samsung is really the only one doing notably well with android at the moment has another issue. The more manufacturers move away from android and onto something else (windows phone maybe), the more chances there are for a third competitor to break in, and once again, unpredictability is not where google wants to be with android.

Nah, I would definitely argue samsung needs android/google way more than vice versa. The strength of iOS and Android is a unified platform with a lot of apps. Samsung was never the mobile giant it is today until android and the Galaxy phones came around.

 

[The Faceless Master]

The problem here is that samsung is becoming bigger than android itself. If samsungs profits keep going on their current trajectory, you should be pretty afraid of what they'll be capable of, and what impact it could have on android. When one company is losing money on it, and another is making astronomical profits on it and still rising, it's hard to deny that this can't end well.

honestly, the problem isn't Samsung, it's everyone but Samsung.

Samsung puts out their devices with removable batteries, ZOMG PLASTIC, Pentile AMOLED, adds all sorts of features that people actually use and people buy them.

all these other guys are removing SD cards, embedding batteries, going minimal on features while still skinning anyway, etc... blogs comment about how 'premium' the phones look ... on store shelves.

and then when people decide to follow Samsung's lead in one instance... everyone wants to make a big device... is it a tablet? is it a phone? no. it's a huge device with an anemic battery and no Wacom tech.

 

[malyce]

The problem here is that samsung is becoming bigger than android itself. If samsungs profits keep going on their current trajectory, you should be pretty afraid of what they'll be capable of, and what impact it could have on android. When one company is losing money on it, and another is making astronomical profits on it and still rising, it's hard to deny that this can't end well.

I agree that they rely on it currently. But at the current trajectory on both sides, who knows what will happen. Odds are it won't be great for google though if something does.

I agree that Samsung is the face of android, but android is already a monster that Google has already lost total control of. Samsung stands to lose more from a Google/Samsung fall out than Google does. Google doesn't make nearly enough money from android to hurt them as much as it would hurt Samsung.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I'm not saying it's bad because google isn't making much money off it, I'm saying it's bad because they've wasted shittons of money on it, and have no power to show for it. What if Samsung decides to fork off slowly into their own thing with their galaxy lines? What if carriers decide they'll push something else, or require more BS on top of the experience than they already do. It's crazy how much power samsung/carriers have over the brand that google spends all day slaving on.

A Samsung phone without the Play Store or Google Maps would get slaughtered in reviews, and eventually in sales. Tablet forks of Android have only been successful because there hasn't been a real Android tablet presence, but for phones, forking Android would basically be like starting over with something like MeeGo. Nobody would give it the time of day.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Yeah, it'd be like PC OEMs ditching Windows. They're in the business of selling hardware, not software.

It's like people don't understand the concept or benefits of a partnership after the rise of Apple.

Google and Samsung have both done incredibly well off Android, and neither would be in as good a position today without the other, yet we should look at this as some sort of power struggle?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Because Whatsapp can actually text Android phones for free lol. Funny thing is it's 99 cents on iOS but free on Android.

Despite Apple's insistence otherwise, phones that aren't iOS exist and being able to message people with those phones is useful.

Short version, WhatsApp is cross platform.

guys, why are you responding like i wasn't being sarcastic?!?

 

[tino]

The problem here is that samsung is becoming bigger than android itself. If samsungs profits keep going on their current trajectory, you should be pretty afraid of what they'll be capable of, and what impact it could have on android. When one company is losing money on it, and another is making astronomical profits on it and still rising, it's hard to deny that this can't end well.

I agree that they rely on it currently. But at the current trajectory on both sides, who knows what will happen. Odds are it won't be great for google though if something does.

Don't get confused here, I'm not saying it's an imminent problem, might not be one for a while. But it's something to think about. It's looming. Anything can happen at this rate.

Dude every company every component in the Android ecosystem is replacable including google (yeah I said it including google).

Android is its own beast. It's open nature decides where its going. Do you think google wanted Samsung to make the 7" Galaxy Tab two years ago? No Samsung decided to do it on their own. Same goes for OUYA and other weird android shit.

Plus google has made a deal with Chinese government to keep android open for the next 5 years. Android is going to remain open.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

I agree that Samsung is the face of android, but android is already a monster that Google has already lost total control of. Samsung stands to lose more from a Google/Samsung fall out than Google does. Google doesn't make nearly enough money from android to hurt them as much as it would hurt Samsung.

This idea that Google has lost control of Android is nonsense. It's a free open source OS, the fact that there are forked versions and non Google cert devices should not come as a surprise.

The Play store is an absolute beast, and nothing outside of iOS appstore comes close. When we see a legitimate threat to that we can start talking.

 

[eastmen]

I agree that Samsung is the face of android, but android is already a monster that Google has already lost total control of. Samsung stands to lose more from a Google/Samsung fall out than Google does. Google doesn't make nearly enough money from android to hurt them as much as it would hurt Samsung.

Google should be afraid of Samsung. Samsung wants to make their own app store for Samsung phones. Just like the amazon app store . There would be nothing stoping them from squeezing google completely out.

I'm sure while the google app store doesn't bring in as much as the apple app store Samsung would surely want as much of the pie as possible .

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Google should be afraid of Samsung. Samsung wants to make their own app store for Samsung phones. Just like the amazon app store . There would be nothing stoping them from squeezing google completely out.

I'm sure while the google app store doesn't bring in as much as the apple app store Samsung would surely want as much of the pie as possible .

Samsung have their own appstore and have done for a while. It's shit. Google and Samsung are in a totally mutually beneficial working relationship right now.

Oh and selling apps is not a big business opportunity compared to selling hardware. Hosting, reviewing etc are actually really expensive.

 

[malyce]

This idea that Google has lost control of Android is nonsense. It's a free open source OS, the fact that there are forked versions and non Google cert devices should not come as a surprise.

The Play store is an absolute beast, and nothing outside of iOS appstore comes close.

I probably worded that wrong but you get idea. Android is like an avalanche and there's nothing that can stop it not even Google.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

but how does that stop them from using the majority of apps?

It certainly stops the majority of apps from being the best they could be if they have to accommodate a massive variety of screen resolutions, device specifications, as well as significantly different versions of the OS.

 

[Mairu]

Bur why would apple allow it if they're trying to invest in their own mapping services?
Why allow a far better solution onto your store?

It wouldn't be the first time Apple's allowed a superior App on iOS for something they have built into the OS - I mean Google Voice Search is a better voice search solution than Siri.

honestly, the problem isn't Samsung, it's everyone but Samsung.

Samsung puts out their devices with removable batteries, ZOMG PLASTIC, Pentile AMOLED, adds all sorts of features that people actually use and people buy them.

all these other guys are removing SD cards, embedding batteries, going minimal on features while still skinning anyway, etc... blogs comment about how 'premium' the phones look ... on store shelves.

and then when people decide to follow Samsung's lead in one instance... everyone wants to make a big device... is it a tablet? is it a phone? no. it's a huge device with an anemic battery and no Wacom tech.

So the problem is Google then? Isn't Google pushing for no removable SD cards on Nexus devices along with no removable batteries?

 

[The Friendly Monster]

I probably worded that wrong but you get idea. Android is like an avalanche and there's nothing that can stop it not even Google.

Well of course, it's open source. This was the gameplan.

Google's Android, which it has complete control over, is steamrolling everything else in phones (and soon tablets) too.

It certainly stops the majority of apps from being the best they could be if they have to accommodate a massive variety of screen resolutions, device specifications, as well as significantly different versions of the OS.

Like on iOS right?

This fragmentation argument is such a load of shit. Slow updates are bad for the consumer, that's why I'd tell everyone to get a Nexus. For the developer it really isn't that big a deal.

 

[The Faceless Master]

It certainly stops the majority of apps from being the best they could be if they have to accommodate a massive variety of screen resolutions, device specifications, as well as significantly different versions of the OS.

devs are completely free to ignore segments of the market if they feel that's in their best interest. the choice is theirs. and let's be very clear here, they do have a choice.

 

[felipeko]

Because Whatsapp can actually text Android phones for free lol. Funny thing is it's 99 cents on iOS but free on Android.

Not free on Android, unfortunately. First year is free, than $1 a year. I felt cheated when i discovered that. I will be migrating to Viber now.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Chromebooks?

Chromebooks don't run on Android.

 

[wanders]

Android is the same as Windows in that it is buggy and never "just working."

But its improving.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Not free on Android, unfortunately. First year is free, than $1 a year. I felt cheated when i discovered that. I will be migrating to Viber now.

over a dollar a year? really? i still haven't been asked to pay... they keep pushing my free period back.

 

[victreeb3l]

Well of course, it's open source. This was the gameplan.

Google's Android, which it has complete control over, is steamrolling everything else in phones (and soon tablets) too.

Like on iOS right?

This fragmentation argument is such a load of shit. Slow updates are bad for the consumer, that's why I'd tell everyone to get a Nexus. For the developer it really isn't that big a deal.

are your apps/games available on both platforms? do you find anything easier to do on one or is there really no difference? do you need to have a bunch of android devices physically available for testing and stuff? seems like working with multiple resolutions and devices doesnt bother you at all.

by the way, great insight in this thread. always cool to hear from developers and their process.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Android is the same as Windows in that it is buggy and never "just working."

But its improving.

So that's why Windows has never been widely adopted for business and home use!

 

[wanders]

So that's why Windows has never been widely adopted for business and home use!

And businesses spend tons on IT department because it runs perfectly!

 

[Burger]

Ahhh. Have you ever looked into something like PhoneGap as a solution?

http://phonegap.com/

I've used it several times and it's quick for multi-mobile OS development. You create the front end using HTML5/JQ/CSS then any backend connections you'd use whatever. It's pretty good for not having to reinvent the wheel on certain aspects of the App.

Both projects are too far down the line to think about another cross platform solution, after the first ended up sucking. You will never sell me on write once, cross platform apps either looking good or working well. But thanks!

We will just hire Android devs

 

[BootlegSnackz]

insert fragmentation vs windows xp joke here

 

[The Friendly Monster]

are your apps/games available on both platforms? do you find anything easier to do on one or is there really no difference? do you need to have a bunch of android devices physically available for testing and stuff? seems like working with multiple resolutions and devices doesnt bother you at all.

by the way, great insight in this thread. always cool to hear from developers and their process.

Only Android at the moment so I'm not in the best position to do comparisons.

The Android emulator wasn't fantastic last time I tried using it, so I'd say having an Android device to test on is useful. I had an Android phone anyway and bought a Nexus 7 when it came out. I don't see any need to buy more than that (the N7 was a luxury to be honest). Using LibGDX 99% of my testing is done on PC rather than the phone.

The resolution independence stuff is overblown. People have been doing resolution independent games on PC for years, the web too. It's not some crazy impossible design goal that people make it sound like. With iOS now across a large variety of screen sizes and resolutions it's not a particularly different challenge.

I can just stretch my screen around on my PC and make sure the game looks fine at different resolutions (until these bloody tablets with higher res displays than my monitor came along!).

 

[3phemeral]

Let's review those top 11 paid apps:

1. SwiftKey: Utility app not required if the OS maker designed their OS keyboard properly from the start.
2. Titanium Backup: OS function in iOS where you can backup all your stuff into iCloud or iTunes.
3. Camera Zoom FX: Crapton of camera apps on iOS as exclusives. I'd say stuff like that is not needed, and actually WP8 handles this type of app category the best.
4. Beautiful widgets: Utility app for people who have too much time to customize their phones
5. Angry Birds: Available on iOS
6. File Manager: Utility app that doesn't fit the Apple vision of not having file managers.
7. Nova launcher: See #4
8. ROM Manager: Not needed in iOS where carriers can't corrupt the OS and people actually mostly pay for their apps instead of pirating them.
9. TuneIn Radio: Available on iOS
10. Minecraft: Available on iOS
11. Widgets HD: Another utility app.

I just see a lot of tinkering without a lot of content app usage on Android. iOS and Apple in general are for people who don't want to waste their time tinkering and just get on with what they want to do with their devices.

 

[Zhengi]

Doesn't Microsoft make money off Android?

 

[Threi]

Let's review those top 11 paid apps:

1. SwiftKey: Utility app not required if the OS maker designed their OS keyboard properly from the start.
2. Titanium Backup: OS function in iOS where you can backup all your stuff into iCloud or iTunes.
3. Camera Zoom FX: Crapton of camera apps on iOS as exclusives. I'd say stuff like that is not needed, and actually WP8 handles this type of app category the best.
4. Beautiful widgets: Utility app for people who have too much time to customize their phones
5. Angry Birds: Available on iOS
6. File Manager: Utility app that doesn't fit the Apple vision of not having file managers.
7. Nova launcher: See #4
8. ROM Manager: Not needed in iOS where carriers can't corrupt the OS and people actually mostly pay for their apps instead of pirating them.
9. TuneIn Radio: Available on iOS
10. Minecraft: Available on iOS
11. Widgets HD: Another utility app.

I just see a lot of tinkering without a lot of content app usage on Android. iOS and Apple in general are for people who don't want to waste their time tinkering and just get on with what they want to do with their devices.

 

[The Faceless Master]

So the problem is Google then? Isn't Google pushing for no removable SD cards on Nexus devices along with no removable batteries?

they're part of the problem. i mean when their main guy says he can't figure out how to implement SD, all i can think is... dude, maybe you should step down and let someone else do that job, i'm sure that someone else can figure it out and they'd be willing to do it in exchange for gainful employment.

 

[d[-_-]b]

This fragmentation argument is such a load of shit. Slow updates are bad for the consumer, that's why I'd tell everyone to get a Nexus. For the developer it really isn't that big a deal.

Only thing that sucks at least for me while developing was that native font support for Arabic/Urdu wasn't supported till 4.0, so it creates a bit of a hassle when you work on religious apps for older phones...

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Only thing that sucks at least for me while developing was that native font support for Arabic/Urdu wasn't supported till 4.0, so it creates a bit of a hassle when you work on religious apps for older phones...

Sounds like a massive pain. I remember arabic support being among the most asked for feature for absolutely ages on the Google Android issue tracker.

 

[Burger]

Doesn't Microsoft make money off Android?

They make money from 'Android' indirectly, as it comes from handset manufacturers, not Google AFAIK.

 

[Cipherr]

I think talking about development hurdles is kind of tied into that! Hopefully it just doesn't become an angry discussion

I honestly think if development issues and hurdles were something that would hurt adoption, that Android wouldnt be at 70% right now. People have been saying for years that the development difference between Android and other OS's would slow it down.

Years later, 700k apps later and damn near app and game parity with other OS's and this big bad development boogeyman has yet to slow anything down.

You think the Galaxy line can survive without access to the Playstore and Google apps? Google needs Samsung just as Samsung needs Google. It goes both ways.

Yeah I always get a chuckle from this. The playstore is massive now, and its the hook. Everyone pretending that Samsung having such success means they can split off and takeover are living in some alternate reality.

Amazon has a much larger base for trying something like that. MUCH larger, and even they are struggling to do it while turning a profit. Pretending that just because the Galaxy line sells phones, that Samsung could up and launch their own Appstore and content library worldwide without suffering gargantuan losses while trying to do so is hilarious.

And once they stepped out, the gap they left behind in phone sales would be filled in by other OHA devices in no time. Noones going to by a Galaxy S5 with crap services and no Play store, not in large numbers anyway. But if you think they will, go ahead and watch how well the near identical hardware in the WP8 based Samsung ATIV does without that ecosystem to back it.

 

[Anton Sugar]

And businesses spend tons on IT department because it runs perfectly!

You think they wouldn't have an IT department if they went with a different OS?

 

[The Faceless Master]

You think they wouldn't have an IT department if they went with a different OS?

a friend of mine worked at an ad agency in NYC and they used macs... i don't remember ever seeing an IT department there...

 

[poppabk]

a friend of mine worked at an ad agency in NYC and they used macs... i don't remember ever seeing an IT department there...

They probably just use the apple genius guys.

 

[Anton Sugar]

a friend of mine worked at an ad agency in NYC and they used macs... i don't remember ever seeing an IT department there...

Did you know that Macs never get viruses?

 

[D4Danger]

a friend of mine worked at an ad agency in NYC and they used macs... i don't remember ever seeing an IT department there...

they were down the road in the Apple store.

 

[wetwired]

Obviously. But it is a huge development challenge. We develop for 1 platform (iPad), soon to be 2 platforms (iPhone). Now our customers are asking for an 'Android' version. How many devices do we have to support? Do we limit to Galaxy S3? 5 Devices? 400 Devices?

It creates a fucking nightmare of a support problem. If one of our customers (we don't sell on the App Store, we use Enterprise distribution) comes to us and says "Hey our app looks like shit on my Huawei F-U" what do we say?

The same way pc developers have been handling it for the past 30 years. You can limit the supported devices in iOS, why do you think it's any different than android?

 

[maeh2k]

Predatory pricing and using its listings to advance its own products are two of the legal issues dogging the search giant

That does sound like the Windows of mobile

 

[The Faceless Master]

Predatory pricing and using its listings to advance its own products are two of the legal issues dogging the search giant

That does sound like the Windows of mobile

oh wow...

The concern in Europe is that making Android free to handset makers constitutes a form of predatory pricing, said David Wood, a lawyer at Gibson Dunn who also advises Icomp, a lobbying group funded by Microsoft, which opposes Google's search dominance.

nope, no shenanigans here...