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Angry Joe Destiny 2 Review
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Niceguydan8
Member
While I don't think acquisition of the mods is difficult by any means without paying for them, I think it sets a poor precedent.
If they aren't hard to find, why are they included in paid crates anyways? It seems like there's very little upside for the player.
Muscle Wizard
Banned
You should boycott it over the fact that if you didn't buy the DLC in D1 you would lose access to content you already paid for in the base game.
It's unfortunate, but the game is stuffed to the gills with content. Whereas with Destiny 1, those exclusives really hurt the experience because the endgame was basically strikes and the raid and losing one strike was painfully noticeable, here you're looking at dozens of missions and activities, and one strike is missing. Proportionally, it's a drop in a bucket in terms of impact.
Still a shitty practice though, so I get the principle of it. The affect on this game is severely diminished, however.
Raven117
Member
This was my thought. There is something for the casual player and something for the hardcore player. And however you play, you will usually get some sort of progression.
I really disagree. Finished the campaign, finished all Strikes, done more Heroic Public events than I care to. Still waiting for the difficulty to reach a level that isn't mindless and rote.
Maybe its behind that Nighfalls and the Raid which I have yet to attempt, but I only see one audience being served so far after a couple weeks of play.
Hari Seldon
Member
I have a feeling that Joe's review is going to be spot on for most people once the initial HYPE! of the launch wears off.
Not discrediting Joe's review completely.. but his score is an outlier in the flood of reviews. I dont think there is such a thing as initial hype for a game like destiny where the point of the game is to grind AFTER you finish the campaign.. either you like it or you don't.
Playing the game a month later is a different story as its dependent on how far people have progressed and if they still enjoy doing the activities in game such as PVP, raids, nightfalls, events, etc.. No singler reviewer can determine that unless they wait a month or two down the road.
Most of these reviews also waited until after the raid:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/destiny-2
Sure people who hate destiny in general can say "BUT JOE IS CRITICAL AND NOT A FANBOY".. i'm sure all 62 reviews including Jim Sterling were paid though by bungie to give 8s and higher!
Destiny isn't a perfect game and can improve in SEVERAL areas, but its def a huge improvement from the first.
Raven117
Member
There is nothing challenging about the single player. I just meant that a single player can progress (just run some crucible and flashpoint for the weekly drops).
Challenge has been and has always been focused on the group activities (Nightfall, Raid). Destiny has always billed this and really never said anything different.
Besides, you aren't a casual player. You are a single player who wants hardcore challenge. Hardcore is for group activity. Its easy enough to jump into here on gaf. I don't play ANY games online, but Destiny 1 as well as Destiny 2 hooked me. Jump on in!
Niceguydan8
Member
While I agree that Joe is probably an outlier, it's also worth noting that the individual scales that people use are not consistent. A 5/10 might be average for Joe whereas that might be a 7/10 on a different person's scale. That difference is not accounted for in an aggregate number.
Overall I get what you're saying and agree with you, I just wanted to make a note about that.
I can only comment in borderlands and Diablo but even removing social spaces these games still don't give you raids or instances. Pvp was also added later to Diablo 3 if I recall correctly. And as others have said, both those examples function much differently than the loot systems in mmos.
Peroroncino
Member
Well then, take out your plate cause you're about to be served.
And after that you'll still have prestigious and heroic variants of those activities, which are even harder.
jim2point0
Banned
It's because you can't kick chickens.
Hari Seldon
Member
I'm not saying that the reviews were bought and paid for or anything, but there have been quite a few cases where initial reviews were way higher than the general community consensus a month or two after release, i.e. most modern Bioware games. I just think that game reviewers are simply human and tend to get caught up in the hype of big budget games a little too much. I'm not saying that it is a bad thing, most reviewers are generally good people trying to do a good job, but it is something to keep in mind.
Seth Enosh
Member
I would guess it's a low priority to have programmers work on that when they can have the community do it for free and work on other items instead.
Looks like the Ishtar collective website already has all the new lore e.g. http://commons.ishtar-collective.net/t/spoilers-a-list-of-all-the-new-lore-entries-and-items/783/5 . How many people are there who are deeply interested in the lore compiled as a codex, rather than tied to individual items, but would rather read it on their TV screen than on their tablet or laptop? I'd guess they assume not that many.
Watched this review yesterday.
He's a bit cringe inducing, but be makes great points. I like the part where he mentions that brilliance with the opening, seeing the refugees. That was a great moment that I wish there were more glimpses of.
Also (not mentioned in his review), the first seemed like sci-fi with a dash of fantasy (space wizards, knights, the grimoire), but now it feels just purely sci-fi. I really miss the slight mix (although following the falcon through icy Tolken-ish mountains did hint it would make a comeback, before vanishing again).
I
He's a bit cringe inducing, but be makes great points. I like the part where he mentions that brilliance with the opening, seeing the refugees. That was a great moment that I wish there were more glimpses of.
Also (not mentioned in his review), the first seemed like sci-fi with a dash of fantasy (space wizards, knights, the grimoire), but now it feels just purely sci-fi. I really miss the slight mix (although following the falcon through icy Tolken-ish mountains did hint it would make a comeback, before vanishing again).
I
I also think the balance is good the game is more accessible and that is a big thing they want clearly. A game like this the community as a whole (not just hardcore) should be able to access just about everything. I mean if you even look at what percent of people even have the trophy of completing a raid from D1 it was less than half of players. So I mean I see where they are looking to accommodate people more.
Shaders drop all over the place and really everyone will come down to one -two sets of gear they love the most and put the shaders on that. I really never saw it as an issue im still figuring out what the heck i even wanna wear and collecting all the legendary armor sets.
I can see where people are annoyed because it was unlimited use before while now they pretty much put that also as a cosmetic thing you can try your luck with silver etc.
so you are claiming they are mainly influenced? Like how does one guy make it seem like hes unbiased because hes unabashedly hard on a game vs others that may have a different perspective? And sites like metacritic help to aggregate these reviews to get a consensus.
(Also BTW many people rated D1 in the 6-8 range) and you can see its metacritic scored 10 point lower which was warranted.
Have a hard time arguing with any of Joe's points from the review, once the honeymoon phase wears off from release you'll see a lot of those same complaints coming from players.
It's definitely an improvement in many ways, but it's about as "play it safe" as a sequel you can get, which is why the "Destiny 1.5" moniker is valid.
I still think the PC version will be great as it helps it feel like something brand new, but overall that was a great review and he's on point as usual.
It's definitely an improvement in many ways, but it's about as "play it safe" as a sequel you can get, which is why the "Destiny 1.5" moniker is valid.
I still think the PC version will be great as it helps it feel like something brand new, but overall that was a great review and he's on point as usual.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Yeah, if you want higher level difficulty, it's all in the end-game. The raid and Trials are difficult. You'll have to give them a try.
Orthogonal
Member
I agree with this. The Beta was very misleading about the final product. I was so hyped for the game after playing that, it looked like Bungie was correcting all the short-comings of D1. The first mission was excellent. Great presentation, good atmosphere, interactions with NPCs and seeing real impacts to the people of this world. The next mission Exodus also continued with good world building and personal struggle. It was a perfect start to a new Destiny and then.... flatline. Back to the same-old same-old. What a waste of potential. What a bait-and-switch tease.
I thought for sure the final mission was building up to an assault with Zavala, Ikorra and Cayde tagging along with you. How cool would that be? What a disappointment to just be sent off alone again. Cmon Bungie, you can do better. You have done better.
The destiny 1.5/expansion moniker was never valid and isnt valid for any game as it reduces any actual meaningful discussion into a one-liner. Its literally a troll and lacks any actual intelligence or analysis to put forth. It was bullshit with splatoon 2 and its bullshit here.
He mentions it's an improvement from the first and did wait until after the raid which he talks about for a few minutes.
Definitely an outlier but I get where he's coming from given his disappointment with the first game.
Sir Vilhelm
Member
Just finished watching his review, really enjoyed it. Destiny 1 really let me down so I was already planning on skipping this game unless the fixed the shortcoming of the first game, looks like they didn't. Too bad.
He didn't do the raid as he just took a friends clip and pasted it in the video. His character is also not even high enough power level to do the raid. If he did it on a friends char, it was low effort on his part during the raid portion to just paste in a clip from his friends stream especially since he used all of his own clips in every other portion.
I agree with most of this. Good summary.
Alright, I watched it. I don't like Joe's schtick, and his green-screen backgrounds always bother me, but I wanted to see what all the fuss is about.
Honestly, I don't think his 6/10 is unwarranted, it just seems like he latched onto some weird side-issues instead of the actual problems with the game. Yeah, the story isn't super great, but why focus on something like how quickly you get the light back instead of how the story pulls a Cabal superweapon out of nowhere?
His raid comments seem to be secondhand, but largely accurate. The raid is incredibly frustrating. I just wish he'd actually experienced it first hand and elaborated on WHY it's upsetting. The loot thing is only part of it, it's more about glitches and pacing really.
I'll also say that I think the Destiny community (which I will openly admit to being a part of) reacted poorly because he starts the review by completely shitting on it. "They were sooooo mad when I didn't play through the raid for the first review." Yeah, I'd argue the raid is a hugely significant part of the Destiny experience. He also calls nightfalls "night" strikes, which is just inaccurate.
Anyways, long-winded post to say, hey the score is legit, but Joe hones in on some weird things, some internet sleuths make it seem like he hasn't finished the raid despite saying he did, and his schtick is still incredibly offputting (especially the footage from his twitch stream? I would shut that off immediately, worse than even Gothalion and I can't stand that dude).
Honestly, I don't think his 6/10 is unwarranted, it just seems like he latched onto some weird side-issues instead of the actual problems with the game. Yeah, the story isn't super great, but why focus on something like how quickly you get the light back instead of how the story pulls a Cabal superweapon out of nowhere?
His raid comments seem to be secondhand, but largely accurate. The raid is incredibly frustrating. I just wish he'd actually experienced it first hand and elaborated on WHY it's upsetting. The loot thing is only part of it, it's more about glitches and pacing really.
I'll also say that I think the Destiny community (which I will openly admit to being a part of) reacted poorly because he starts the review by completely shitting on it. "They were sooooo mad when I didn't play through the raid for the first review." Yeah, I'd argue the raid is a hugely significant part of the Destiny experience. He also calls nightfalls "night" strikes, which is just inaccurate.
Anyways, long-winded post to say, hey the score is legit, but Joe hones in on some weird things, some internet sleuths make it seem like he hasn't finished the raid despite saying he did, and his schtick is still incredibly offputting (especially the footage from his twitch stream? I would shut that off immediately, worse than even Gothalion and I can't stand that dude).
Well, everything in Diablo and Borderlands is an instance - since you each area is loaded for you and your group - and progression in that area can be reset and run through again.
Diablo has optional bosses - and you could say that the high level Greater Rifts are essentially raids.
HiredN00bs
Banned
There isn't any grey area. They shipped destinations with empty spaces to build future content. They can't cut content that isn't finished, logically. It's conspiracy theory bullshit and you're saying the onus is on me to disprove Joe's paranoia? That's not how burden of proof works. That's all aside from the fact that it is nonsense to hold back finished content in a game that desperately needs it. Joe needs to watch the Extra Credits episode on DLC from like, what, 8 years ago?
I agree with a lot of what he had to say in this review, but I do feel he was overly harsh on the games music in that segment. The score is a little low compared to what I would give it. Destiny 2 fixes so much that was wrong in Destiny 1, but it doesn't do enough for me at least to advance the game to the next level.
Playing the beta I felt the game would land around being a 6 for me, but now I would give it a solid 8. I don't think I will give the game nearly the amount of time I gave to Destiny 1 even at that score though. The original was just a new magical experience and I allowed the flaws to be ignored, I can't do that with D2. Bungie has their work cut out for them keeping me engaged till the expansions release, if I'm not finding a reason to play this in the next month, I'm out till the expansions and will only return for that content for a week or 2 then stop.
Playing the beta I felt the game would land around being a 6 for me, but now I would give it a solid 8. I don't think I will give the game nearly the amount of time I gave to Destiny 1 even at that score though. The original was just a new magical experience and I allowed the flaws to be ignored, I can't do that with D2. Bungie has their work cut out for them keeping me engaged till the expansions release, if I'm not finding a reason to play this in the next month, I'm out till the expansions and will only return for that content for a week or 2 then stop.
It's not worth getting angry about. It's also worth pointing out that a lot of people do justify the "Destiny 1.5" moniker when they use it.
The fact that the sequel essentially has all the same enemies (with slight variations), similar/the same AI and all of the same classes, with one new/reworked replacement subclass and some minor reworks on the existing ones is justification enough IMO.
I'm really enjoying the game, but those who claim it looks/feels like a massive expansion or re-do of D1 aren't wrong either.
He wasn't being harsh on the music itself, which he likes (who doesn't), it's the way that the incredible, epic music will often happen when not much is going on. I think he made a similar comment on it in his Destiny 1 review during the "Array" sequence, which has one of the best tracks from the original OST, but the action just doesn't quite match up.
Raven117
Member
Thanks!
Raven117
Member
Fair enough, but what difference does it make to them if this is what you do?
There is absolutely zero wrong with this. Play what you want, put it down, come on back when the expansions hit (as either you paid, or will pay for the DLC). Truly, why would it matter if you played every day until the expansion or whether you quit right now and picked it up the day the new expansion comes out?
Destiny 1 was a very odd duck. It was new and exciting with a bizarrely difficult grind (especially before Crota dropped...those farming loops...). Couple that with one or two guns that were "musts" for endgame (if you wanted to PUG), and only one or two ways to get them per character a week...the grind was IMMENSE. You had to play alot...over and over. I don't think that's the game Bungie wanted.
You can see since TTK, they backed waaayyyy up on that. I think they are perfectly fine letting you play the new content...enjoy it, drop it for something else, and come on back. Which IMO is awesome.
You just described every sequel Bungie has made since Halo 2. (Note, there are new enemies in D2.)
They also rebuilt the entire game around them on grander scale. It's a new game with similar gameplay against the same but expanded factions. "Destiny 1.5" is a ridiculously inaccurate at best, or simply a troll at worst, and it's highly damaging to discourse about what the game does and does not do well.
Niceguydan8
Member
I agree that it's not accurate, although I think calling it "highly damaging to discourse" is probably a little over the top. Most of the time I see it contextualized reasonably, even if I don't agree with it.
Destiny 2 is a sequel. There's no doubt about it. That being said, in regards to some issues (and this is not exclusive to Destiny), it feels much more like an expansion. The fact that other Bungie games feel this way doesn't change that opinion. Not to me, at least.
I was expecting them to do more new stuff, honestly. The game is still fun, but this feels more like Stormblood(I think SB is better in most regards) to me than it does Witcher 2 or Witcher 3, for example.
GustyGardens
Banned
So, do we like or hate Joe this week?
I dont think anyone hates him aside from 1 or 2 comments that kinda attacked him personally.. just a lot of people disagree with his review in some aspects and final score
Interficium
Banned
Can you imagine people freaking out that Halo 5 REUSES covenant elites and grunts for the fifth consecutive game? How about the fact that they're REUSING the Battle Rifle, Assault Rifle, plasma grenades, frag grenades, shotgun, rocket launcher, etc???
Halo 5 is an expansion confirmed.
NullPointer
Member
Its all about expectations, and standards set for the genre.
I think its better to compare Destiny to the expansion-based MMOs its trying to emulate than to a classic FPS like Halo. People expect entirely new classes and factions, significant change-ups and new game modes because that's how those games have always worked.
I mean, it definitely makes sense that Bungie would reuse enemies and such given it's the same universe and races. My biggest problem with the enemies is that Bungie has made one (1) boss since Destiny 1 launched.
Every boss outside the raids is just a slow, giant, bullet-sponge version of a regular enemy with a mortar ranged attack and that goddamn melee dome. Sometimes the area you fight them is dark. Sometimes there's more or less adds. Sometimes the area shifts. Sometimes that boss is invisible. But it's always the same goddamn boss!
Out of all the Destiny-like stuff that Destiny does, this one kill me the most. Just design a second boss. Please. Couldn't we fight something small and fast? A corrupted guardian using guns and class skills? I don't know. Just, you know, literally anything else.
hanspampel
Banned
27 pages arguing about a review score
GAF in a nutshell
GAF in a nutshell
I can't agree with this at all. Even with the extra Strike on PS4 the playlist feels extremely repetitive. Must be even worse on Xbox.
Is the game really packed to the gills with content? I reached 280 Power level and aside from the Nightfall and Raid, there's nothing else to do. What content?
DeaDPo0L84
Member
That's unfortunate, but if one person's opinion amid a flood of positive impressions and an extremely limited beta were enough to convince you not to buy it it's probably a safe bet to say you were never going to buy it in the first place. Will never understand how influenced people allow themselves to be by a single person.
PVP (Crucible, Trials, Banner when its out) ?
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Someone coming into a discussion topic, on a discussion forum, moaning that discussion is taking place.
GAF in a nutshell.
The adventures are actually very good, including interesting dialogue, character banter, locations, and gameplay. There's just no reward for doing them that progresses your character. They're good, but implemented poorly. They should give you something that advances your character, but that's what happens when you have to reboot every game you make a year away from launch.
Destiny PvP is fucking abominable.
There's a Quickplay and Competitive option, but I can't select which game type I want to play, it's random, which is a downgrade from Destiny 1. Also PVP is just not fun for me because again, it feels like a downgrade from Destiny 1.
My point was that I grinded to 280 Power level but there's only the Nightfall and the Raid that make any use of that Power range.
ethomaz
Banned
Well the opposite is happening for most reviewers at least... these that did scored it on initial hype (like Joe) give it lower score than average and now all scores are pretty good.... it jumped from 82 to 86 after the reviewers played the Raid.
Yea but what may not be fun for you may be fun for a lot of other people. I was just pointing out there was also PVP as other content aside from the nightfalls and raid at endgame that you said. I know I'm personally gonna play a lot of PVP on the PC version when its out.