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Angry Joe The Order 1886 Review.

Golgo 13 said:
Joe is such an obnoxious douchelord. I seriously have zero respect for him. I also can't understand why people care about what "internet celebrities" think about, well, anything.
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Cave Johnson said:
You should take your advice and look up the word "irony". Games can be used for education too, you know?
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Sure, but we're in a thread about The Order. I'm not entirely sure you can say their point was to educate. It's an entertainment product. A dictionary is almost never an entertainment product, at least that I know of. I suppose some pretty nerdy people might be entertained by it, but that's a pretty crazy case.

The comparison is still completely fucking ridiculous.
 
Golgo 13 said:
Joe is such an obnoxious douchelord. I seriously have zero respect for him. I also can't understand why people care about what "internet celebrities" think about, well, anything.
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guy actually takes the time to review the game, focuses on the good and the bad, is not a corporate ball washer like most big site people......sure "douchelord"
 
Golgo 13 said:
Joe is such an obnoxious douchelord. I seriously have zero respect for him. I also can't understand why people care about what "internet celebrities" think about, well, anything.
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Bruuhhhh...then why even bother coming into the thread?
 
Golgo 13 said:
Joe is such an obnoxious douchelord. I seriously have zero respect for him. I also can't understand why people care about what "internet celebrities" think about, well, anything.
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I don't watch his reviews because he's an internet celebrity. I don't give a shit about that. I DO care if the review I'm watching or reading is well made, covers a lot about the game, and is on point with it's criticism.

Joe just adds the whole comedic element on TOP of the rest.

Anywhere, it's clear that YOU DO care what he has to say. You cared enough to go into this thread and write out that shit post.
 
I think the problem with video games is that people fail to see how much broader they are, specially when compared to movies or books, than all other entertainment mediums. The number of tools at the disposal of a game dev are way more diversified than any movie maker or book writer could ever hope to have.

Video games are movies, books, music, all merged together into one interactive realm. There is no bad formula, only bad implementations.

The degree if interactions is only as important as the creators talent to balance all the other ingredients allow him to temper with its formula.

I think it would make alot more sense for people to try and accept as many types of games as possible instead of trying to deny them. Gameplay heavy games (Mario) or storyheavy games (Walking Dead), they are all trying to make their target audience happy.

If you don't like one or the other, it doesn't matter. There will always be both available for the gaming market (and whatever is in between). So accepting them (even if you don't like them) is way more productive in my humble point of view.
 
Golgo 13 said:
Joe is such an obnoxious douchelord. I seriously have zero respect for him. I also can't understand why people care about what "internet celebrities" think about, well, anything.
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He has more obvious passion for video games in his pinky than most of us do in our whole bodies
 
Dargor said:
I think it would make alot more sense for people to try and accept as many types of games as possible instead of trying to deny them. Gameplay heavy games (Mario) or storyheavy games (Walking Dead), they are all trying to make their target audience happy.
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I hope you're not trying to compare The Order to the Walking dead.

The Walking Dead features PLENTY of gameplay. It's simply narrative based gameplay. It's about messing with the story and characters via dialogue. Conversations need to be resolved quickly and they DO impact the story.

That's an old school gameplay mechanic. It's the bread and butter of old school CRPG's for example.

A "Game" that is nothing but a movie you watch unfold, in which you have no agency is NOT a game. It is a movie. In the walking dead you aren't simply watching a story unfold, you are actively changing the story through your actions and words.
 
Joe is a pretty cool guy but seriously, what's up with the Superman thing? I don't get how that fits into his character.
 
RDreamer said:
Sure, but we're in a thread about The Order. I'm not entirely sure you can say their point was to educate. It's an entertainment product. A dictionary is almost never an entertainment product, at least that I know of. I suppose some pretty nerdy people might be entertained by it, but that's a pretty crazy case.

The comparison is still completely fucking ridiculous.
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Your statement applies to a medium as a whole and not just The Order. Moving goalposts don't exactly secure your stance on the subject.
 
Dargor said:
I think it would make alot more sense for people to try and accept as many types of games as possible instead of trying to deny them. Gameplay heavy games (Mario) or storyheavy games (Walking Dead), they are all trying to make their target audience happy.
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You do far more in The Walking Dead than you do in The Order. It is also about twice as long and less than half the price.
 
Kinthalis said:
I hope you're not trying to compare The Order to the Walking dead.

The Walking Dead, btw, features PLENTY of gameplay. It's simply narrative based gameplay. It's about messing with the story and characters via a dialogue. Conversations need to be resolved quickly and they DO impact the story.

That's an old school gameplay mechanic. It's the rbead and butter of old school CRPG's for example.

A "Game" that is nothing but a movie you watch unfold, is NOT a game. It is a movie.
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I don't even know what you're talking about, honestly. Games can be whatever they want, thats what I'm trying to say. And your characterization of The Order couldn't be farther from the truth.

It has plenty of gameplay too. Weather is it good or bad, does not make it a movie.
 
That review was entertaining, and I like the longform because it actually shows the reviewer playing (and failing). The Order's A.I. was so bad it might as well have been an MMORPG.
 
Golgo 13 said:
I'm not allowed to come in and express my views if they're contrary to yours? Man, then I am so sorry.

You're right, I should've just agreed with everything he says.
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Way to miss the point. You're calling names/throwing insults at someone who've gone at length to describe what he thinks are significant flaws of the game, simply because you can't see past his "internet celebrity" reputation. And you think criticisms against your shallow post/comments are unwarranted? Fucking LMAO!
 
Max Payne said:
You do far more in The Walking Dead than you do in The Order. It is also about twice as long and less than half the price.
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I never said you did more in The Order than in the Walking Dead, that was not my point. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

What I'm trying to say is that a game can be alot of things and its quality has nothing to do with what those things are. That depends only on just how well they are implemented.
 
Golgo 13 said:
I'm not allowed to come in and express my views if they're contrary to yours? Man, then I am so sorry.

You're right, I should've just agreed with everything he says.
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Dude, you didn't express any kind of criticism/agreement or disagreement or post anything of relevance to the review. You just came in here to tell us how much you don't like the guy. It was a textbook example of a shitpost.
 
Dargor said:
I never said you did more in The Order than in the Walking Dead, that was not my point. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

What I'm trying to say is that a game can be alot of things and its quality has nothing to do with what those things are. That depends only on just how well they are implemented.
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The thing is though, from what I can see, Order does a lot of things, but doesn't do them well. It loses to GoW in cover-shooting, it loses to Heavy Rain in QTE, its AI is worse than a lot of games... presenting well should not be enough to make a game good enough.

Golgo 13 said:
I'm not allowed to come in and express my views if they're contrary to yours? Man, then I am so sorry.

You're right, I should've just agreed with everything he says.
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You didn't comment on anything he said, you literally called him a douchelord and complained that people listened to him
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
The thing is though, from what I can see, Order does a lot of things, but doesn't do them well. It loses to GoW in cover-shooting, it loses to Heavy Rain in QTE, its AI is worse than a lot of games... presenting well should not be enough to make a game good enough.
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Thats not what I said at all? The Orders failures does not invalidated the fact that, if another game tries to be a cinematic, story focused, with lots of QTEs, third person shooter but implemented all of those well. It would be a good game.

It was not those characteristics that made The Order an average game, but their implementation. Presentation has nothing to do with that, I think.
 
RDreamer said:
Look, if everything else didn't matter, then why are we not all playing on our original NES consoles still? Why is it that a lot of this very forum picked a PS4 over an Xbox One for graphics? Why is it that we get threads about downgrade complaints? Artistry matters. There are a lot of talented people doing amazing things with this medium, and I really hate that we dismiss it sometimes if some other people on the team didn't blow things out of the water.

Graphics matter, soundtracks matter, atmosphere matters, story matters on a varying scale for all of us. We can sit here and pretend that gameplay is the only thing that matters, but that's simply not true. Why is it some big offense that some people want to be entertained in some ways?
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There's a good chunk of people, myself included, who find the amount of vitriol and "preorder cancelled" posts over things like 900p, "lol downgrade", parity, and lack of AA, to be an embarrassment rather than a good precedent to where the industry is headed.

If the die-hard graphics fans of the industry want to hitch their wagon to Ryse and The Order, you're going to have a hard time finding a sympathetic ear the next time you gripe about the tropes of AAA gaming or the greed of next gen publishers.
 
Golgo 13 said:
I'm not allowed to come in and express my views if they're contrary to yours? Man, then I am so sorry.

You're right, I should've just agreed with everything he says.
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Next time someone calls you names, don't get mad - remember, they're just expressing their views! So when someone comes at your face shouting "you're a fucking moron golg o you know that, a pathetic douchelord, i hold you in lesser respect than the rats in the sewers", don't mind it, just turn the other cheek and say "while I disagree with your opinion, I appreciate it, and I admire the unexpected, blunt way you present it to me, especially since you came all the way here to tell me it in person!"
 
Joe must have read my review i posted yesterday in the OT, a lot of similar criticisms. Although I enjoyed it a lot more it seems, and would give it a 7.5/10.

King Beyond the wall said:
Finished it last night, my thoughts on the games:

Positives
- gameplay (the shooting) was excellent, heavy and could feel every impact
- story was really solid and enjoyable
- graphics were incredible
- characters, voice acting and the lore/world were excellent
- the actual cinematic element worked for the most part.

Negatives
- game seems to lose focus near the end, and pacing falls apart at this point.
-
plot holes- why didn't Galahad tell layfayette and izzy about the Lycans and vampires infiltrating the order, they would have believed him.
-
Lycan combat Is disappointing and a waste, as is the fact you do not get to fight vampires
- encounters with enemies were pretty bad generally, usually just stand in a spot and shoot enemies as they spawn into an area, very boring often.
- lack of enemy variety, RAD have created an incredible world yet we fight humans 95% of the time.

Overall a solid 7.5/10 for me. Has the potential to be an incredible franchise.

Tips for Rad for the sequel (fingers crossed)

- improve enemy variety, we should fight a whole legion of supernatural monsters, from Lycans to gargoyles, to Mr Jekyll style beasts.
- improve weapon variety, more science guns would be great, arc rifle and thermite rifle were great.
- more open areas to explore the world, like in the last of us.
- include more interesting things on the items to pick up, so many times I would pick it up and just put it down instantly.
- encounter design needs to be vastly improved, the game felt like a turkey shoot, just shooting enemies as soon as they spawned into an uninteresting and unvaried combat zone. Offer different routes for the player to attack the enemy.
- carful of pacing and ensure that chapters do not pass too quickly or that there are too many different cutscenes changing quickly, makes the game feel disjointed.
- I can't stress that this should be a game primarily about fighting 19th century supernatural beasts, and this offers great opportunity for co-op hunting. Imagine you and 3 friends chasing monsters through London into Westminster and the Houses of Parliament.
- multiplayer would also be great and offer much for the longevity of the game.

Overall a really enjoyed the game, despite the fact it began to fall down near the end. Great effort from RAD for their first AAA console game, and hoping for a sequel.
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Frillen said:
Sounds like you hate video games.

Or you have reached a level of Sony defending that even Nib can't reach.
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LOL man that is great. I loved reading his posts in the order review thread.

That review killed any interest I had in the game. Looks like bloodborne will have to sell the ps4 for me.
 
RDreamer said:
I find this last statement funny. I feel like some of you can't grasp the idea that people want different things from their entertainment, and that's what I've been trying to tell you. People even want different things at different times.

I'm not asking you to compare interactivity in movies to interactivity to games. I'm asking you all to compare entertainment to entertainment. It's been the main pull of interest in both mediums since its inception, and that's why people prioritize its importance.
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We grasp it perfectly fine. It's just that you can't seem to understand that your opinion is in the minority, and that most people don't agree with you. No one is obligated to like what you like, and if the majority of people aren't entertained by what you like and the games don't sell, you don't get to accuse people of being close minded when your very niche genre of video game goes unliked by most of the people playing because it doesn't appeal to them. Like I said in my earlier post, there are probably people who enjoy comic books just for the art and don't care about the story, but that doesn't mean that everyone who enjoys comic books is closed minded if someone puts out a comic book with great art but a garbage story and it doesn't sell or get received well. It means that book didn't have what most people consider is needed to make a good comic book.

Then, instead of just admitting that you care less about the interactivity of video games then the average video game player, you proceed to claim that people just "Overemphasize the importance" of that interactivity. The main thing that makes video games stand out as a medium.

And again, for some reason your mind seems to be unable to grasp the idea that people want different things from their entertainment mediums. You can't sit there and act like all entertainment mediums are entertaining for the same reasons. They all have strengths in certain areas, and some of these strengths are integral to the medium.

Frankly, I don't know why I'm even bothering typing this. You're just going to make up another nonsensical post. No one is telling you you can't like the Order. We get it. Frankly, I don't care if you liked the Order or not. What people ARE saying is that everyone else isn't close minded just because you like a game most of us don't. You can find that entertainment anyway you like, but you don't get to go around saying people overemphasize the importance of something they see as integral to the reason they enjoy video games just because it's not that important to you.

If anyone can't see that different people want different things out of video games in this thread, it's you.
 
Do we know how well the Order have been selling?

If it's anything like Destiny, they probably wouldn't hesitate to drop those numbers at any opportunity.
 
To go back to an earlier post-

Messofanego said:
Yeah, Andrea did. Watching that Vile Self review and man is it annoying. His scoring system is hilariously bad. Strawmans aplenty that somehow critics only cared about the length or monetary value of the game or were offended at the type of game it was or complained about it not having extra modes (meaning this dude didn't even read them). The typical "they should review what the game is and not what they wanted the game to be" argument.

15:46 "I am in the firm belief that any reviewer that scored this game a 6 or lower did a lackluster job and should probably be fired from reviewing games ever again."

Does Andrea Pessino or any developer want to associate with such statements?
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My favorite line in that review "I'm starting to guess that these so called reviewers are just dude-bros and casuals who only like bro-shooters and racing games".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td2bi2uCijI#t=406

Haha. Oh man. Hey Vile Self, I LOVE racing games. And incidentally liked The Order too.
Now I get Angry Joe and other's complaints, and they're quite valid, but I still really enjoyed it. I didn't mind all the cutscenes, the short length, or QTEs. I thought it was an immersive experience, and enjoyed dipping into the world they created while it lasted.

But yeah, not without faults at all.

And also I didn't pay full price, so there's that.
 
Chaos2Frozen said:
Do we know how well the Order have been selling?

If it's anything like Destiny, they probably wouldn't hesitate to drop those numbers at any opportunity.
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Seems to be doing OK in parts of Europe. In the US you can only really judge right now based on Amazon, where it's doing pretty bad. Within a week of release it had already fallen out of the top 50 and now it's closer to 100 on the hourly chart than to 50. I assumed it wouldn't die in popularity until Bloodborne came out, but it appears to have happened much faster.
 
barit said:
Well Angry Joe can be harsh sometimes but he nailed it again in this video. Hope RaD takes notes
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Well makes Joe happiest is cramming in as much content as possible. Sometimes that's not realistic. As much as I hate RAD's emphasis on gameplay over graphics there are certain things Joe asked that is totally unnecessary.


RAD didn't need to offer multiplayer.
RAD didn't need to make a closed ended story.
RAD didn't need to make incredible AI.
RAD didn't need to provide multiple alternative endings.
RAD didn't need to have us fighting Lycans regularly.

RAD could have made an enjoyable game without these elements but they failed spectacularly.

Things they could have done within the constraints of their limited time and budget.


Allied AI spends a lot of time not performing an action? Give players an override command to direct their units just so they didn't sit around doing nothing.

Game is filled with pointless walking and collection of items? At the minimum tie together the collectable items to unlock access to items you take away during a cutscene by providing clues.
Clues can also unlock access to unlocking more subtle plot points like confirming directly that Tesla is working with the resistance.


Lycans only have a pattern of charging from a specific location repeatedly? Open up the fighting arena and designate set locations the Lycan can randomly choose as a charging point. Each charging start up location has the Lycan perform a different type of attack that requires better understanding of which gun to switch to.


Greater Lycans can only work as a QTE fight? Then make QTE into a game with its own rules and playstyle. The player can choose from 4 to 6 actions and each action has a predictable consequence in terms of risk reward. I could go more in depthly on this but it really is up to RAD to take their game design seriously.

Now all 4 points are still mediocre but at least within the constraints of their past design decisions they could've made the game more enjoyable.
 
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