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[Metal Gear?!]

DS Piracy requires additional hardware to do, that is the key that stops it from being like the PSP and Dreamcast!

Buying some hardware isn't any harder than running a firmware crack, especially since you have to buy a Memory Stick anyway.

 

[charlequin]

100% of stolen Ferraris deny someone other than the thief the ability to drive or buy a Ferrari. 0% of pirated games do this, except through the most indirect way (in that poor sales could eventually lead to a developer folding).

Piracy is not theft. It's not murder either. Neither of these facts make piracy "right", however.

This post should be stickied at the top of every piracy thread.

Reasons stealing is wrong:

* It directly denies a property owner the ability to make use of that property.
* Committed in sufficient volume, it creates an economic pressure that devalues products that are stolen by reducing the demand for purchasing them.

Reasons piracy is wrong:

* Committed in sufficient volume, it creates an economic pressure that devalues products that are stolen by reducing the demand for purchasing them.

This issue is where most of these conversations go off the rails. When you track phantom "losses" that directly correspond to the number of copies pirated, you misstate the actual economic impact of the problem and therefore tend to invent "solutions" that do not solve the problem.

Measures like the one in the OP point towards the reasonable solution that many of us knew was a good idea ages ago, but which game publishers never learn: simple, low-impact protection that's enough to discourage casual piracy but which isn't significant enough to inconvenience legitimate users.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Reasons piracy is wrong:

* Committed in sufficient volume, it creates an economic pressure that devalues products that are stolen by reducing the demand for purchasing them.

That's your only reason? I write software for a living. Stealing my software means you are stealing from me.

Piracy is most certainly theft. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive or clueless.

Lastly, a big fuck you to all you fucking pirating assholes. Just because it's easy to procure without being caught doesn't make it not stealing.

And for God's sake, would you people use a fucking dictionary? Look up the definition of steal. It's stealing dolts!

 

[Arthas]

That's your only reason? I write software for a living. Stealing my software means you are stealing from me.

Piracy is most certainly theft. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive or clueless.

Lastly, a big fuck you to all you fucking pirating assholes. Just because it's easy to procure without being caught doesn't make it not stealing.

And for God's sake, would you people use a fucking dictionary? Look up the definition of steal. It's stealing dolts!

It is stealing, but it's stealing lite.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

That's your only reason? I write software for a living. Stealing my software means you are stealing from me.

Piracy is most certainly theft. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive or clueless.

Lastly, a big fuck you to all you fucking pirating assholes. Just because it's easy to procure without being caught doesn't make it not stealing.

And for God's sake, would you people use a fucking dictionary? Look up the definition of steal. It's stealing dolts!

Don't forget rentals and used games are stealing too!

 

[TimeKillr]

DS Piracy requires additional hardware to do, that is the key that stops it from being like the PSP and Dreamcast!

Oh, I'm sorry, you need to buy a piece of hardware which is INCREDIBLY easy to find, for about the price of 1.5 DS games.

Then, you go to one of those DS pirate websites, out in the open, and download every game the second they come out.

Sure, it's much harder than PSP and DC piracy!

BTW, PSP piracy does require additional hardware now - you need a Pandora battery (if you don't have a stock 1.5 psp), etc.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Its not about it being easy or hard to find, the fact that extra hardware is required is what turns people off. That's why DS piracy is nowhere near as bad as PSP piracy (Slim PSP has made things harder but you still don't necessarily require a pandora battery as long as you know someone who has one! Also normal PSPs are widely avaliable second hand anyway so a pandora is still not neessarily required)

 

[biggersmaller]

Never should have gotten rid of code wheels.

Made you feel like Bond.

 

[Durante]

That's your only reason? I write software for a living.

Good for you. So do I.

Piracy is most certainly theft. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive or clueless.

Piracy is worse than theft: it's robbery committed on the high seas. Copyright infringement is something else entirely.

And for God's sake, would you people use a fucking dictionary? Look up the definition of steal. It's stealing dolts!

"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"
Yeah, that obviously applies to copyright infringement on software. I'm such a dolt for not realizing that sooner!

 

[Danj]

Never should have gotten rid of code wheels.

Yeah, with the older "read word x from page y" you could defeat it by just photocopying, but the code wheels were much more difficult. Plus it'd cause keygen authors some problems too as you could put symbols on it that don't exist in any character set and can't be typed on the keyboard.

 

[Vagabundo]

Good for you. So do I.

Piracy is worse than theft: it's robbery committed on the high seas. Copyright infringement is something else entirely.


"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"
Yeah, that obviously applies to copyright infringement on software. I'm such a dolt for not realizing that sooner!

I concur...

 

[biggersmaller]

I think we can all agree that downloading games for free, when they should cost you some coin, is simply wrong. It's simply bad business for the industry to have a mindset that this is acceptable under any definition you wish to quibble over.

If you're going to torrent, or use news groups, or whatever - it's usually due to pure laziness (which I'll admit to doing in the past with DC) - so don't try to justify it as being a case of "not effecting significant sales" because the business side of video games will never see it that way. Ever. And because of this fact, companies will fold under investor expectations to take care of this loss of revenue.

If you're going to do it, fine, but don't try to justify your actions.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Its not about it being easy or hard to find, the fact that extra hardware is required is what turns people off. That's why DS piracy is nowhere near as bad as PSP piracy (Slim PSP has made things harder but you still don't necessarily require a pandora battery as long as you know someone who has one! Also normal PSPs are widely avaliable second hand anyway so a pandora is still not neessarily required)

Why do you continue to insist that DS piracy is nowhere near as bad as PSP piracy? We hardly know that to be true and have already shown that it is not significantly more difficult at any rate, it may even be easier in some ways.

 

[Danj]

I think we can all agree that downloading games for free, when they should cost you some coin, is simply wrong. It's simply bad business for the industry to have a mindset that this is acceptable under any definition you wish to quibble over.

On the other hand, we know for a fact that the proportion of people who pirate games in order to try them out is greater than zero. So if all games had demos, piracy would be reduced by some amount. Also there are some people who pirate games because the pirated version works better than the DRM-infested version they actually paid for. So if game DRM was less invasive and computer-busting, that could reduce piracy too.

 

[The Faceless Master]

DS Piracy requires additional hardware to do, that is the key that stops it from being like the PSP and Dreamcast!

is it harder to get additional hardware for a DS or install a Custom Firmware on PSP?

 

[sprocket]

Even moreso, who the hell wants to pay for yet another arkanoid clone? :lol :lol

What if people would have said to epic back in the early days.. " why would someone want to pay for a pin ball game?" or " why would someone want to pay for a qauzi sonic clone" *jazz jack rabbit*.

 

[biggersmaller]

On the other hand, we know for a fact that the proportion of people who pirate games in order to try them out is greater than zero. So if all games had demos, piracy would be reduced by some amount. Also there are some people who pirate games because the pirated version works better than the DRM-infested version they actually paid for. So if game DRM was less invasive and computer-busting, that could reduce piracy too.

I see your point. But further on my post I said:

Don't try to justify it as being a case of "not effecting significant sales" because the business side of video games will never see it that way. Ever. And because of this fact, companies will fold under investor expectations to take care of this "loss" of revenue.

Even if there isn't an actual loss here, investors will always perceive it that way, and that hurts the business.

 

[tokkun]

100% of stolen Ferraris deny someone other than the thief the ability to drive or buy a Ferrari. 0% of pirated games do this, except through the most indirect way (in that poor sales could eventually lead to a developer folding).

Piracy is not theft. It's not murder either. Neither of these facts make piracy "right", however.

But there is a lot of value in the parts and manufacturing of a Ferrari. There is not much value in the parts and manufacturing of a video game.

Let's say you steal a game off the back of a truck as it's leaving the manufacturing plant. They have now lost the cost of the disc and packaging - maybe $3. The amount they lose because you don't buy the game may be more in the range of $45, and this will be lost if you steal the physical disc or just download a pirated copy. If you would have bought the game otherwise, you have deprived someone of that $45. Why qualify only the first scenario as theft?

 

[A Black Falcon]

Never should have gotten rid of code wheels.

Made you feel like Bond.

Yeah... maybe. I had some games that used codewheels.

The only real answer to cracking those things was hacked exes. But the code wheels themselves were kind of cool... the ones where you just had to look up a number on a sheet of paper or something were annoying, but codewheels weren't as bad... you just had to make sure to not lose the codewheel.

But there is a lot of value in the parts and manufacturing of a Ferrari. There is not much value in the parts and manufacturing of a video game.

Let's say you steal a game off the back of a truck as it's leaving the manufacturing plant. They have now lost the cost of the disc and packaging - maybe $3. The amount they lose because you don't buy the game may be more in the range of $45, and this will be lost if you steal the physical disc or just download a pirated copy. If you would have bought the game otherwise, you have deprived someone of that $45. Why qualify only the first scenario as theft?

Because you're not taking anything! You're COPYING. Copying is not taking, it is copying. In a previous thread someone compared it to going into someone's garage and making a copy of their car (with materials they brought, but based on the car in the garage), then leaving with the copy. That's what game downloading is like. Nobody is being deprived of property. That's why it is most definitely not theft.

And anyway, as the article said, most people who download games had no intention of buying them anyway, so your premise is flawed in that way as well.

 

[Slavik81]

But there is a lot of value in the parts and manufacturing of a Ferrari. There is not much value in the parts and manufacturing of a video game.

Let's say you steal a game off the back of a truck as it's leaving the manufacturing plant. They have now lost the cost of the disc and packaging - maybe $3. The amount they lose because you don't buy the game may be more in the range of $45, and this will be lost if you steal the physical disc or just download a pirated copy. If you would have bought the game otherwise, you have deprived someone of that $45. Why qualify only the first scenario as theft?

Because you aren't making a copy when you steal it off the back of the truck, it's not copyright infringement.

Just like copying someone's homework assignment isn't stealing it, illegally downloading a game isn't stealing it, either. And no, that doesn't make it right to copy just because it isn't theft. Murdering your friend isn't stealing either, and that's not right, so obviously there are things that are wrong to do besides theft. (For that matter, copying his homework isn't right either.)

 

[Vaporak]

Why qualify only the first scenario as theft?

Because that's how the governments of the world define it? You can call Copyright violations theft, but that's really no different than calling an apple an orange. IT'S SIMPLY FACTUALLY WRONG, regardless of your opinion on the matter.