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Anthony Hopkins Calls Michael Bay a 'Genius' and 'Savant'

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lord pie

Member
For sheer turn-your-brain-off entertainment, escapism and just being fun, he has few equals. He also realized that there is an enormous percentage of people who want exactly that in a movie.

Armageddon is one of the greatest films of all time, just not in the way many would like it to be. It's total garbage nonsense, but it knows it and it's better for it.
 
LOL

Try a Nolan movie like the Dark Knight trilogy . The Dark Knight alone blasts almost every garbage Michael Bay put out.
The Dark Knight is full of problems with action scripting, cinematography, and editing. As a whole, the movie overcomes these problems because other parts of the movie shine.
 

Chumley

Banned
Fucking hell, kids of today don't know anything do they? Armageddon is better than anything Nolan has ever made. Shitting out terrible Transformers movies one after another doesn't change that.

Making one of the best comic movies is not a terribly high bar to clear, especially when comparing Nolan to someone who has made some of the greatest action movies of all time.



You're ok in my book.

Stop trolling.

The Dark Knight is full of problems with action scripting, cinematography, and editing. As a whole, the movie overcomes these problems because other parts of the movie shine.

Problems with cinematography? What are you talking about? Do you have anything at all to back that up?
 

aliengmr

Member
And here I was expecting Hopkins to launch into a tirade about how awful Michael Bay is while doing press for a movie directed by Michael Bay. My day is officially ruined.
 
Stop trolling.



Problems with cinematography? What are you talking about? Do you have anything at all to back that up?
Just watch the movie and look where the camera is placed. Go re-watch the car chase scene and notice how it is needlessly confusing and hard to follow where all the cars are supposed to be. Now compare that to the car chase in Terminator 2.
 

The Kree

Banned
Just watch the movie and look where the camera is placed. Go re-watch the car chase scene and notice how it is needlessly confusing and hard to follow where all the cars are supposed to be. Now compare that to the car chase in Terminator 2.

I notice a lot of car chase scenes have this problem. I think it happens when they forget to include enough establishing shots (I think that's what they're called) of all the cars involved in the chase so you know where they all are in relation to each other. I caught it in Dark Knight as well, but it's not that confusing on a rewatch.
 

jdstorm

Banned
Is it not genius to be able to take a franchise designed around selling kids' toys and turn it into one of the biggest movie franchises to date with little to no effort put towards the script and everything put into explosions?

Then how come GI Joe and Battleship both failed?

You might not like what Bay does, but he's unquestionably the best at it.

Too bad Transformers got Bay before the DCU could tap him for a Superman movie.
 

SRG01

Member
Problems with cinematography? What are you talking about? Do you have anything at all to back that up?

Nolan has a huge deficiency with action shots, particularly the framing of fight scenes and chases. The car chase, end-tower sequence, etc...

Not the Dark Knight for this next example, but Rises uses weirdly wide camera lengths for a lot of the fight scenes.

Then how come GI Joe and Battleship both failed?

You might not like what Bay does, but he's unquestionably the best at it.

Too bad Transformers got Bay before the DCU could tap him for a Superman movie.

Ironically, Battleship has a lot of competent action sequences which takes obvious references from Bayhem. Had it been marketed as a different property with a few changes to the script, it might have done quite well.
 

Litan

Member
I notice a lot of car chase scenes have this problem. I think it happens when they forget to include enough establishing shots (I think that's what they're called) of all the cars involved in the chase so you know where they all are in relation to each other. I caught it in Dark Knight as well, but it's not that confusing on a rewatch.
Is it possible that some directors do it intentionally? Like, if the character goes into the scene with the layout and geography of everything in their head, they give the audience that information too, but if they don't, then the info is kept from the viewer?
 

JB1981

Member
Does he need to be competent at anything else? That's what he does well, and that's what people want to see him do well.

The thing is even if I concede that he's competent at the mechanics of action filmmaking, that's not an admission that what he does is particularly fun or entertaining. His style of filmmaking is mindnumbingly boring.
 
The thing is even if I concede that he's competent at the mechanics of action filmmaking, that's not an admission that what he does is particularly fun or entertaining. His style of filmmaking is mindnumbingly boring.
To you. Thousands of other people, as well as other notable directors (ie Nolan), disagree.
 

JB1981

Member
To you. Thousands of other people, as well as other notable directors (ie Nolan), disagree.

Thousands, actually millions, of people also voted for Donald Trump. Even some conservative intellectuals support him and think he's great. This is no way is a reflection of his qualifications as a world leader. Same applies to Michael Bay as a director. Creatively he is utter garbage.
 
Well he's not entirely wrong. Bay is clearly successful and rich.

Then how come GI Joe and Battleship both failed?

You might not like what Bay does, but he's unquestionably the best at it.

Too bad Transformers got Bay before the DCU could tap him for a Superman movie.

Well he was fortunate enough to the direct the first of those films.
 

jdstorm

Banned
Nolan has a huge deficiency with action shots, particularly the framing of fight scenes and chases. The car chase, end-tower sequence, etc...

Not the Dark Knight for this next example, but Rises uses weirdly wide camera lengths for a lot of the fight scenes.



Ironically, Battleship has a lot of competent action sequences which takes obvious references from Bayhem. Had it been marketed as a different property with a few changes to the script, it might have done quite well.


Agree somewhat on Battleship. Seems like they wanted to make a PG13 TransformersxPredator with boats, yet somehow made Pearl Harbour x Pixels.

I was just using it to suggest that what Bay does is actually really hard to do.
 

Chumley

Banned
Just watch the movie and look where the camera is placed. Go re-watch the car chase scene and notice how it is needlessly confusing and hard to follow where all the cars are supposed to be. Now compare that to the car chase in Terminator 2.

I never once was confused during any chase scene in the TDK trilogy and don't know anyone else who was either.

I also don't know why you would compare it to Terminator 2 when they're completely different movies with different styles and aesthetics. Not all chase scenes should be identical to how Cameron shoots chase scenes.
 
I love the dark knight so much but some of the action choreography and craft behind the action scenes is really lacking

It's funny really. Snyder's batman had a far superior fight scene (although the music during the dark knight swat scene is much more exciting) and Nolans movies shitted on snyders batmobile chase. They each have their ups and downs when it came to Batman action

Anyways Bay is skilled at what he does and he has a style wholly his own. Cant knock that, no matter how mad you get at the praise or how much you dislike his films
 

The Kree

Banned
Is it possible that some directors do it intentionally? Like, if the character goes into the scene with the layout and geography of everything in their head, they give the audience that information too, but if they don't, then the info is kept from the viewer?

I dunno, but it seems like a mistake to just have things popping in and out of an action scene nonsensically. The surprise should probably come from unpredictable actions instead of previously unseen objects just appearing in frame to do things. Editing is a hell of a thing.

I always think of The Matrix Reloaded's car chase and being a gold standard, because the Wachowskis loved to use wide shots in all their action, so you have shots like this:

morpheus-on-truck-roof.jpg


where you see Morpheus on the truck and Trinity on the bike in the distance. This is just before he grabs the Keymaker off her back and hurls him up onto the truck, so the action makes perfect sense because you just saw the locations of everyone involved all at once.

This is not something Michael Bay does well. He can frame a pretty looking image, but he often cuts too incoherently between places, people, and actions without establishing where everything is in relation to everything else. As a comparison, here's a similar scene where Bumblebee rescues Sam and another guy from falling off building. It's a slick shot and it's framed well, but where the hell was Bumblebee before that? The rescue sorta makes for a nice surprise, but it lacks impact and doesn't make structural sense because the scene never took a moment to establish where Bumblebee was in relation to Sam & Starscream before the save. Not knowing the save was gonna happen isn't the problem. It's not knowing Bumblebee was even going to be involved in the moment.
 

Big_Al

Unconfirmed Member
It's funny, I really like Bays films in general and always enjoy them BUT I just don't enjoy his Transformers films, like very much at all. I really wish he'd go and do Bad Boys 3. I've admittedly not seen Pain & Gain yet or 13 Hours so I guess I should watch those at least.
 

zeemumu

Member
Then how come GI Joe and Battleship both failed?

You might not like what Bay does, but he's unquestionably the best at it.

Too bad Transformers got Bay before the DCU could tap him for a Superman movie.

I'm...confused about what you're arguing. I'm saying that you have to have some form of genius to be able to pull that off. He didn't have anything to do with Battleship and GI Joe (as far as I know) and they both failed.
 
It's funny, I really like Bays films in general and always enjoy them BUT I just don't enjoy his Transformers films, like very much at all. I really wish he'd go and do Bad Boys 3. I've admittedly not seen Pain & Gain yet or 13 Hours so I guess I should watch those at least.

Pain and Gain is ok. Mark Wahlberg in stupid as shit dirk diggler mode really carries it. Missed that moron lol

Also you get to see the rock back in his Versace shirts.

13 Hours was overhyped on gaf. I think the transformers movies are dumb but often have some cool action scenes but I'm still waiting on him to match bad boys 2 again. Dude should be doing bad boys 3 right now
 
He directed The Rock, that's all he needed to do to be considered a master. Doesn't mean he hasn't made garbage, too, but you only need one masterpiece to be a master.
 

Cth

Member
In his defense, Bay's also a genius when it comes to budgets on films. When the typical blockbuster keeps increasing, he does more with less.

Similarly, he recognizes the importance of furthering the tools of the industry. While other filmmakers will just farm out CGI to a company, Bay invests in places like Digital Domain, spends time on hand with the artists to better understand the craft and provide them with footage to make things easier on them.

Also worth noting is how he supports the people who work on the films. While it did result in a crappy film (ROTF) he kept the families who were relying on the film's ongoing production in business while most of Hollywood shut down.
 

Hystzen

Member
Micheal bay gave us

The Rock
Bad Boys 1+ 2
Armageddon (bonus ben affleck calling out Bay how dumb the film is)
Transformers (first film is focused and decent)
Shia- without Bay no crazy lovable mad Shia we have now
Pain And Gain
Samsung walk off presentation
Take a shot when you see a fuck yeah America moment or see a American flag drinking game
 

Big_Al

Unconfirmed Member
Pain and Gain is ok. Mark Wahlberg in stupid as shit dirk diggler mode really carries it. Missed that moron lol

Also you get to see the rock back in his Versace shirts.

13 Hours was overhyped on gaf. I think the transformers movies are dumb but often have some cool action scenes but I'm still waiting on him to match bad boys 2 again. Dude should be doing bad boys 3 right now

Thanks for that :) I'll probably enjoy them both tbh, just not got around to them yet! I didn't realise Pain & Gain was supposed to be a dark comedy though despite being based on real events.
 
He's not wrong.

Yup.

Hopkins is talking about Bay purely as a filmmaker.

Thousands, actually millions, of people also voted for Donald Trump. Even some conservative intellectuals support him and think he's great. This is no way is a reflection of his qualifications as a world leader. Same applies to Michael Bay as a director. Creatively he is utter garbage.

Are you seriously trying to compare Trump to a filmmaker you dislike, dude? Are you seriously stealth calling people who like things you dislike idiots? It's a fucking movie.

I'd type out what I'd want to, but it would get me banned.
 

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
I know it's cool to hate on Michael Bay, but the man is talented. He just chooses to do crappy films.
 

JB1981

Member
Yup.

Hopkins is talking about Bay purely as a filmmaker.



Are you seriously trying to compare Trump to a filmmaker you dislike, dude? Are you seriously stealth calling people who like things you dislike idiots? It's a fucking movie.

I'd type out what I'd want to, but it would get me banned.

Nope. The point is popularity is not a barometer of quality. I have no problem with people "enjoying" Michael Bay's movies, just don't try to argue that he's a misunderstood genius. He is a bad filmmaker who happens to make popular entertainment.
 

Timu

Member
Micheal bay gave us

The Rock
Bad Boys 1+ 2
Armageddon (bonus ben affleck calling out Bay how dumb the film is)
Transformers (first film is focused and decent)
Shia- without Bay no crazy lovable mad Shia we have now
Pain And Gain
Samsung walk off presentation
Take a shot when you see a fuck yeah America moment or see a American flag drinking game
The Rock is his only really great movie.
 

Chumley

Banned
Yup.

Hopkins is talking about Bay purely as a filmmaker.



Are you seriously trying to compare Trump to a filmmaker you dislike, dude? Are you seriously stealth calling people who like things you dislike idiots? It's a fucking movie.

I'd type out what I'd want to, but it would get me banned.

He's saying that popularity should never be a measure of quality.
 

jdstorm

Banned
I'm...confused about what you're arguing. I'm saying that you have to have some form of genius to be able to pull that off. He didn't have anything to do with Battleship and GI Joe (as far as I know) and they both failed.

I was mostly just using that as examples where others had tried to do what Bay does and fails to suggest that in terms of what he does, just because Bay has normalized success doesnt mean it isnt hard.

Just compare these 2 clips

Actual Clip from Transformers 3 where soilders wingsuit into a city being destroyed by CGI https://youtu.be/8PR3UW-SMxs

This is a behind the scenes look. Its a bit of a puff piece, but it helps give a frame of reference to what is CGI and what is real in the final film https://youtu.be/vlphauPDp7I

Edit: compare that to the Wingsuit scene from Point Break (2015) where even though its all Practical effects, some shots look like some CW level CGI. https://youtu.be/WE26wBozL18
 
The worst part of this god awful Transformers franchise is that Bay absolutely can do better, he simply chooses not to.

Pain & Gain and 13 Hours both are reminders of the man's talent. Why he can't bring that quality over to the TF flicks, I'll never know.

Pain and Gain is an aggressively worthless movie.
 
I love the dark knight so much but some of the action choreography and craft behind the action scenes is really lacking

It's funny really. Snyder's batman had a far superior fight scene (although the music during the dark knight swat scene is much more exciting) and Nolans movies shitted on snyders batmobile chase. They each have their ups and downs when it came to Batman action

Anyways Bay is skilled at what he does and he has a style wholly his own. Cant knock that, no matter how mad you get at the praise or how much you dislike his films

Isn't every working director in Hollywood skilled at what they do? Skilled at what you do is really far away from the genius of Spielberg or Scorsese. Seems like Anthony Hopkins was just impressed by all his technical obsession with the effects and hands on nature with that, even though it lead to really crappy and fake as shit looking transformers.

I think it's kinda preposterous to compare him to Spielberg or Scorsese. He made a couple really watchable and enjoyable movies, but just because he impressed an old man with his knowledge of effects, don't mean he is Spielberg.
 

Ronin Ray

Member
Justin Lin is the king of the big over the top dumb action movies. I feel like he has been out Michaeling Micheal bay for some years.
 
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