-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Anti-vaccination, why is this a thing in this information age?
- Thread starter Protein
- Start date
- Status
eYup....
Honestly the scariest part of this horseshit is that there are so many sites that say they do.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
This year's flu vaccine should be pretty efficacious.
Last year was a fluke.
Last year was a fluke.
M1ch04c4n0
Banned
I was engaged on a FB discussion whit a friend who is anti-vac (his child got some weird autism like condition they blame on both vaccines and deseases and nutrition) who promptly sent me links and articles.
None of the articles really stablished a link, just make points to supposed markers and "effect-cause" conclusions based on, wait for it, suppositions (basically, image the "Ancient Aliens" goes going "is that possible, yes it is!").
The last link he sent me was a researcher in France, who proposed links between desease and autism activation, and who later just plainly says "No, vaccine don't cause autism, stop being stupid".
Of course, that means nothing to my friend, because that one doctor said there MAY be a link, or be one of many causes.
He then tried to blame-bully me, and I just played along.
If you read those links, that's why there are different options for what types of vaccinations you should use if you're situated with an immuno-compromised person:
In other words, these people can still be vaccinated but they should avoid certain types of vaccinations to avoid adding risk. People who choose flat-out to not be vaccinated at all are exposing immuno-compromised individuals to the full-blown disease, and this is by personal choice. I really don't think the immuno-compromised should be inconvenienced by parents who have the choice to vaccinate but who do not.
Hey look 4th/5th paragraph in that link.
The writer of this article is a fucking idiot, and anything they say should be ignored. Vaccines are one of the greatest healthcare inventions in human history and people like this are trying to destroy that. These types of people are fucking dangerous to society.
No there is not 2 sides to this debate.
And no you should not have a right when your ignorance harms other people, if small pox came back for example, you should not have the right to get others killed.
AHA-Lambda
Member
This, idiocy can spread more quickly than ever.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Gods, how ignorant are these people. How can they not know about smallpox and polio? I bet they do but are conveniently ignoring them to suit their agenda. Disgusting.
Speak for yourself
Netherscourge
Banned
Autism has been on an incredible rise the past few decades.
1 out of 68 kids in the USA is born with some sort of Autism Spectrum disorder, according to the CDC.
The theory going around, that has been tested and hasn't proven anything yet, is that newer vaccine ingredients contain a chemical that may be causing some kind of subtle brain damage. Not just post-birth vaccinations but stuff like the Flu vaccines given to expectant-mothers.
Another theory (along the same lines, but different factors) is that increased cellular radiation from the rise of smartphones and other mobile devices, especially cell towers, is causing these disorders.
There are really two issues:
1. For vaccines, you have to juggle the seriousness of getting an deadly or disfiguring disease vs. possible Autism. Studies and tests have been done, but there is no link between the two from everything that's been done. Doesn't mean there isn't a link, but there's no definitive proof yet.
2. For cellular radiation, you'll have to find a way to get past Verizon, AT&T, Sprint & T-mobile's lawyers, not to mention Apple, Google and everyone else who loves smartphones and the like, to even suggest cellular radiation could be causing these things. Imagine saying, "Sorry, world. Cell towers are causing Autism. Bye bye smartphones." Consumers and companies would flat out deny and ignore it even if it WAS true.
It's one of those... "Nobody really knows 100% for sure, and nobody wants to find out for 100% for sure because it'll cost billions of dollars and jobs and possibly end an industry and create lots of fear and panic and anger" type of things.
So far as vaccines are concerned, there are so many deadly diseases and viruses out there and there's a DEFINITE HIGHER CHANCE that not getting vaccinated might wind up killing you if you get measles, rubella, polio, etc... etc... So the Autism risk, even if there actually IS a link, is worth it to get vaccinated.
Fear is a powerful weapon, for BOTH sides of the debate.
1 out of 68 kids in the USA is born with some sort of Autism Spectrum disorder, according to the CDC.
The theory going around, that has been tested and hasn't proven anything yet, is that newer vaccine ingredients contain a chemical that may be causing some kind of subtle brain damage. Not just post-birth vaccinations but stuff like the Flu vaccines given to expectant-mothers.
Another theory (along the same lines, but different factors) is that increased cellular radiation from the rise of smartphones and other mobile devices, especially cell towers, is causing these disorders.
There are really two issues:
1. For vaccines, you have to juggle the seriousness of getting an deadly or disfiguring disease vs. possible Autism. Studies and tests have been done, but there is no link between the two from everything that's been done. Doesn't mean there isn't a link, but there's no definitive proof yet.
2. For cellular radiation, you'll have to find a way to get past Verizon, AT&T, Sprint & T-mobile's lawyers, not to mention Apple, Google and everyone else who loves smartphones and the like, to even suggest cellular radiation could be causing these things. Imagine saying, "Sorry, world. Cell towers are causing Autism. Bye bye smartphones." Consumers and companies would flat out deny and ignore it even if it WAS true.
It's one of those... "Nobody really knows 100% for sure, and nobody wants to find out for 100% for sure because it'll cost billions of dollars and jobs and possibly end an industry and create lots of fear and panic and anger" type of things.
So far as vaccines are concerned, there are so many deadly diseases and viruses out there and there's a DEFINITE HIGHER CHANCE that not getting vaccinated might wind up killing you if you get measles, rubella, polio, etc... etc... So the Autism risk, even if there actually IS a link, is worth it to get vaccinated.
Fear is a powerful weapon, for BOTH sides of the debate.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
TheSpaceBetween
Member
I work in a pharmacy and we're forced to push flu shots this time of year. A lot of people will say they don't get them for various reasons. It may be dumb but it's their body, their choice IMO.
Powerful, powerful argument there.
Powerful, powerful argument there.
Netherscourge
Banned
Wow, hard to counter this argument... ???
No you agree? No you disagree?
No...something else?
Poltergust
Member
Or, the reason why autism is "on the rise" is that it is being better diagnosed as we come to understand it more over the years.
But sure, let's go with the nonsensical explanation for autism becoming more prevalent.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
No.
You have a greater risk of the nurse tripping over a chair and jabbing you in the eye with a vaccine than getting autism from one.
This is not a debate.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Engaging in dialogue with bigots just seems, from where I sit, to reassure them that someone is listening to them.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Stop posting obvious, 100% discredited horseshit as if there were even a single shred of merit to it. You might as well be posting phrenology, it's not worthy of any other kind of response anymore.
What the fuck .............
Well one side fears things that are actually real, like polio.
The other side fears things that aren't real, like getting autism from vaccines.
Or.. the DSM changed - a lot.
Netherscourge
Banned
This could be true too.
Autism may have ALWAYS been this widespread, but since it's such a wide-range spectrum of disorders and developmental issues, people in the past would shrug a lot of the less-severe cases off as "late bloomers" or some other non-specific reason.
It's so hard to nail down the cause of something like this.
CountAntonius
Member
There is always info to support whatever you choose to believe.
IdreamofHIME
Member
There are people who think Sandy hook was faked by liberals to get gun control. All the "information age" does it make it easier for idiots to meet and communicate with each other and back up each others dumbass conspiracy theories.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
You posted asinine theories "going around" with no evidence.
Vaccines do not correlate with autism numbers. Period.
Netherscourge
Banned
Team Alucard
Banned
Actually, the internet is exactly where they get their bullshit from.
There has also been no disproving of links between vaccines and:
Bear attacks
Alien abductions
Flying Spaghetti Monster molestations
Absurdist Picket Signs
The Loch Ness Monster
Mimes
So remember, just because no one is actually studying the correlation between vaccinations and your children turning into street performers, doesn't mean it's not happening RIGHT NOW IN YOUR CITY. CDC COVERUP FEMA NWO TAKEOVER FALSE FLAG FALSE FLAG
smh
Bear attacks
Alien abductions
Flying Spaghetti Monster molestations
Absurdist Picket Signs
The Loch Ness Monster
Mimes
So remember, just because no one is actually studying the correlation between vaccinations and your children turning into street performers, doesn't mean it's not happening RIGHT NOW IN YOUR CITY. CDC COVERUP FEMA NWO TAKEOVER FALSE FLAG FALSE FLAG
smh
meanwhile let's fearmonger and ominously keep repeating that science hasn't been able to prove a negative yet
Netherscourge
Banned
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to make it sound like anything was proven or disproven.
I am not anti-vaccine or anti-cellular radiation.
I'm just going back to the original topic about why stuff like this is spread around today.
Social Media makes it easier to spread false information just as much as it does actual facts.
Many parents become angry and depressed when they find out their child has a disorder of some sort and it's hard for them to simply accept it as random chance. They want to know why. They want to identify or blame something. They can drive themselves crazy reexamining their pregnancies or some other event.
When they can't find anything on themselves, they look elsewhere and sometimes get desperate to the point of unproven accusations.
Well how else can you explain the huge explosion of brain cancer instances since cell phones have become ubiquitous in our society? Oh wait...
Alcoremortis
Member
That's not a theory. That's not even a hypothesis.
Without knowing what the chemical is, it's impossible to disprove a statement like this, therefore it's no longer science, just supposition. However, you're more likely to get debilitatingly sick or die due to eating food at a restaurant than from a vaccine.
Seems odd that you chose to exclude that when pointing to diagnosis rates.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Actually, there are quite an overwhelming number of topics for which a scientific consensus has been reached. And this is one of them. The presence of the occasional dissenter doesn't change that. The debate is taking place outside of the scientific community, not within it.
Netherscourge
Banned
It was more of a bad example of why these misconceptions take place. (or a great example depending on your point of view)
The activist-types tend to cherry-pick facts, ignoring other facts, to make something sound more sinister than it actually is.
They're advocates and politicians at the same time.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
So to be clear, you don't believe vaccines cause autism?
That's giving up. That's surrendering to their bigotry. You disengage and it allows them to continue unchallenged.
I asked you if you leaned toward authoritarianism earlier in this thread. I do. One of the functions of government should be to protect marginalized and persecuted groups. But we also have a social responsibility to defend these groups, and to work toward reducing oppression against them.
If you do not challenge a bigot, you are essentially handing them the reigns. They may be trying to get a rise out of you, but this isn't as trivial as kids poking each other on the playground. Letting them go unchallenged can lead to regressive policies. It can leave ignorant onlookers thinking the bigot has the upper hand, that you do not have the capacity to defend your views because the bigot has the stronger argument. This allows bigoted thought, like a virus, to spread. In a perfect world bigotry and chauvinism and stupidity would be self evident. This is not a perfect world.
You have the capacity to prevent this. Challenging bigots is not some idealist principle. It is practical. Without challenging these people, you cannot affect change. You relinquish all power to them.
Don't you recognize that people are listening to them? They don't need your recognition to know this. Look at the GOP right now. Look at the anti-vax movement, creationists, or any other group founded on intentional or unintentional ignorance. Do you think if we suddenly stopped acknowledging them they would go away? They have plenty of support from their base; they do not need us to respond to them for them to know they have an influence. But by responding, we can at least curb their influence.
There are people out there listening. To assume maliciousness from your opposition is unwise. Ignorance is not always held out of spite. It can be remediated. It does not have to be permanent.
Netherscourge
Banned
I don't know. To be 100% honest.
I have no idea. There is nothing showing any definitive link, so that's reassuring. That's all I have to go on.
I'm vaccinated and my kid is too and so is everyone I know. I'm hoping we live long, healthy lives.
I'm not running around telling people to not get vaccinated. Like I said, either way, Autism would be the LEAST of your worries if you chose not to get vaccinated.
But I can understand how some distraught people can overreact or make desperate accusations with no proof, especially when their children are affected by something, like Jenny McCarthy.
Arguing that we don't know the cause of Autism doesn't equate to vaccinations causing Autisim.
There is no established link between Autism and vaccinations. The theories bandied about range from ludicrous to implausible, and none are supported by the data obtained from studies.
Vaccinations are paramount to the health of our society. The risks from being inoculated are miniscule compared to the complications of the diseases vaccines prevent.
Get vaccinated.
Brian Griffin
Member
Overwhelming evidence showing no link between them is kind of a lot to go on. You really have no idea what you believe?
Which is why we have to be vigilant about correcting the misinformed. People often do not choose to be ignorant. You don't know who is receiving new information for the first time.
Gun Animal
Member
I wasn't vaccinated until the ones I needed for college a few years back. Hasn't ever been a problem but I'm scared as fuck to travel outside the US...
Also of relevance, I actually knew two different boys with autism who were unvaccinated. Must have been chemtrails, I guess. (lol)
Also of relevance, I actually knew two different boys with autism who were unvaccinated. Must have been chemtrails, I guess. (lol)
hammysaurusrex
Member
Anti-vax is pretty easy to adopt for someone with an ideological motivation because it easily melds well with other extreme ideological positions - it's equal parts anti-establishment (appeals to the far left) and anti-government (appeals to the far right). And this is exactly what you see in the anti-vaccine demographics - part well-educated kale-munching California mother who knows more than all the pediatricians, part 20-something year old Randian zealot who has no idea what these diseases even looks like but is positive they should come back because of some vague notion of "health freedom"
- Status