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Any Gaf martial artists out there?

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shira said:
Asian martial arts extend into medicine, rehab, philosophy.

Unfortunately, the above is dying off. Dudebros just want MMA training with almost no knowledge getting extended into non-fighting aspect of martial arts.
It is sad that the Gracie-school is one of the last English-speaking schools.
Unless you learn Chinese I believe that in the next two generations a lot of techniques and knowledge is going to die off.
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Why cant MMA and TMA exist in harmony. Why does it have to be "MMA dudebros" and "kung fu larping chi pantywaists"? Is it so ridiculous to suggest that perhaps they might be able to support each other and work together. Let's be real- a lot of TMA schools have become outmoded, form based and shun physical contact and sometimes conditioning. It's more common to find a Traditional Martial Arts school with a fat sifu in full 36 chambers larp gear, a belt system, and huge fees than the real McCoy. Forget the other stuff like traditional medicine and philosophy, the MARTIAL applicability of most TMA has eroded. MMA is helping to bring a lot of that focus back. On practicality, application, and competition. It has its downfalls, but by and large MMA is helping to revitalize and update a lot of old schools, and bring them back to a combat focus.

I agree that martial arts are dying off in terms of breadth of techniques, knowledge, and philosophy... But what do you expect in an era where their applicability has become lessened so much thanks to evolving weapons and increased legal accountability for fighting? You can't just blame MMA for all that. And you HAVE to acknowledge that many TMA schools jus dont test the rigor of their curriculum enough in real time.
 
Eschaton said:
Why cant MMA and TMA exist in harmony. Why does it have to be "MMA dudebros" and "kung fu larping chi pantywaists"? Is it so ridiculous to suggest that perhaps they might be able to support each other and work together. Let's be real- a lot of TMA schools have become outmoded, form based and shun physical contact and sometimes conditioning. It's more common to find a Traditional Martial Arts school with a fat sifu in full 36 chambers larp gear, a belt system, and huge fees than the real McCoy. Forget the other stuff like traditional medicine and philosophy, the MARTIAL applicability of most TMA has eroded. MMA is helping to bring a lot of that focus back. On practicality, application, and competition. It has its downfalls, but by and large MMA is helping to revitalize and update a lot of old schools, and bring them back to a combat focus.

I agree that martial arts are dying off in terms of breadth of techniques, knowledge, and philosophy... But what do you expect in an era where their applicability has become lessened so much thanks to evolving weapons and increased legal accountability for fighting? You can't just blame MMA for all that. And you HAVE to acknowledge that many TMA schools jus dont test the rigor of their curriculum enough in real time.
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This is a damn good post.
 
Eschaton said:
I don't feel like Baji or Xingyi are heavily philosophical. There is a lot of abstract explanation in both, but i think that there is a lot more philosophical teaching in even some Karate schools.
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I kind of submitted the post and then thought, "you know, you probably could rephrase that" and then thought, "fuck, it's miller time, go home".

I was being overly broad, and I apologize. My "heavily" scale was meant more along the internal/external scale of expressions of the martial arts and I was trying to use simpler terms for someone who hadn't been around it much. Honestly, the degree of "do"-ness of any given martial art really depends on the instructors. I've seen some incredibly internal expressions of Muay Thai, for instance. I've also seen some incredibly external expressions of judo. Karate is really all over the place, depending on the school.

I was really asking the question not to throw up a "dude" barrier between traditional and non-traditional martial arts but to get a bead on what the guy really wanted to do, because the answer to "teach me how to punch fite" has a million different, yet all appropriate, answers, and, "how do you want to punch fite" is often a question a lot of people fail to ask.
 
Eschaton said:
Why cant MMA and TMA exist in harmony. Why does it have to be "MMA dudebros" and "kung fu larping chi pantywaists"? Is it so ridiculous to suggest that perhaps they might be able to support each other and work together. Let's be real- a lot of TMA schools have become outmoded, form based and shun physical contact and sometimes conditioning. It's more common to find a Traditional Martial Arts school with a fat sifu in full 36 chambers larp gear, a belt system, and huge fees than the real McCoy. Forget the other stuff like traditional medicine and philosophy, the MARTIAL applicability of most TMA has eroded. MMA is helping to bring a lot of that focus back. On practicality, application, and competition. It has its downfalls, but by and large MMA is helping to revitalize and update a lot of old schools, and bring them back to a combat focus.
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Unfortunately, MMA/TMA are commercialized much like yoga or pilates. You need to pay to learn. Fat sifu and MMA dudebro are happy to take your money.

A real TMA master does not charge for anything.

Eschaton said:
I agree that martial arts are dying off in terms of breadth of techniques, knowledge, and philosophy... But what do you expect in an era where their applicability has become lessened so much thanks to evolving weapons and increased legal accountability for fighting? You can't just blame MMA for all that. And you HAVE to acknowledge that many TMA schools jus dont test the rigor of their curriculum enough in real time.
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Applicability is not lessened. In fact TMA stresses stability, coordination, balance, and range of motion that 99.999% would love to have. You don't need to fight to learn these things.

People are not smart enough or don't have the medical background to comprehend the implications. There are maybe a handful of people in the world that are: fluent in English & Chinese AND have backgrounds in medicine, rehab, & fighting.
 
GungHo said:
I kind of submitted the post and then thought, "you know, you probably could rephrase that" and then thought, "fuck, it's miller time, go home".

I was being overly broad, and I apologize. My "heavily" scale was meant more along the internal/external scale of expressions of the martial arts and I was trying to use simpler terms for someone who hadn't been around it much. Honestly, the degree of "do"-ness of any given martial art really depends on the instructors. I've seen some incredibly internal expressions of Muay Thai, for instance. I've also seen some incredibly external expressions of judo. Karate is really all over the place, depending on the school.

I was really asking the question not to throw up a "dude" barrier between traditional and non-traditional martial arts but to get a bead on what the guy really wanted to do, because the answer to "teach me how to punch fite" has a million different, yet all appropriate, answers, and, "how do you want to punch fite" is often a question a lot of people fail to ask.
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Oh don't sweat it. The internal/external dichotomy is annoying as fuck because nobody seems to have a coherent definition of what it means. I ignore it, despite being from the school of the creator of the Neijia/Waijia distinction (sun lu tang)... I think it distracts too much from the important things. When i do choose to address "internal" stuff. I think of it as the mental, spiritual, and intent of your personal martial art. I like Adam Hsu's idea best... That all martial arts start with focus on external physical movement and form, and then from there progress into the abstract and internal with experience. The "internal" martial arts have emphasis on certain things that people label as such (body structure, qi/breath emphasis, etc) but in truth ive seen many of the same emphases in many western martial arts, modern MA, whatever.
 
Tae Kwon Doe brown belt. Studied for close to 10 years. Decided to devote most of my free time to baseball when I got to highschool. I haven't practiced the stuff in close to 15 years now.
 
shira said:
Unfortunately, MMA/TMA are commercialized much like yoga or pilates. You need to pay to learn. Fat sifu and MMA dudebro are happy to take your money.

A real TMA master does not charge for anything.
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Mine doesn't. The difference between fat sifu and MMA dudebro is that at least "MMA dudebro" teaches with a combat and conditioning emphasis, and may at least offer competition. MMA and TMA dont need to be at odds, they can grow using each other. MMA is not a new concept anyway, dont let an aesthetic distract you from the obvious advantages of how it is put in practice today.

Ti Da Shuai Na, right?

Applicability is not lessened. In fact TMA stresses stability, coordination, balance, and range of motion that 99.999% would love to have. You don't need to fight to learn these things.

People are not smart enough or don't have the medical background to comprehend the implications. There are maybe a handful of people in the world that are: fluent in English & Chinese AND have backgrounds in medicine, rehab, & fighting.
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Applicability is lessened because people dont need to fight as much. As much as we talk about martial arts and applicability toward self-improvement and health, martial arts progress and develop through combat. Thats why they exist. Thats where they come from. Everything else is just a result of development. You can't separate martial arts from its fundamental application. As for coordination, balance, flexibility, range of motion... Do you think that you can't learn these from western MA or the MA learned most frequently by MMA competitors? Because that is flat out wrong.
 
Learning wing chun under a coworker and judo from father-in-law and bro-in-law. Nice that I don't have to pay a dime for what I've learned, but the sessions are more casual than what you'd expect from a real place. Lucky that my WC coworker teach for the pure love of it.

Been wanting to learn some BJJ, but the task of finding a reputable spot near me is a bit daunting.
 
Eschaton said:
As for coordination, balance, flexibility, range of motion... Do you think that you can't learn these from western MA or the MA learned most frequently by MMA competitors? Because that is flat out wrong.
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Unless you grew up in a rural area you are probably conditioned to sit in desks, wear shoes, drive cars, and use a computer for hours a day. I would say you need a master in old-school traditional learning who grew up without these hindrances and understands how to unteach them.

Take a look at the Russian kick dance. Almost impossible for a city-born kid to do. But simple for any country-boy to do. I don't know how good you are - but can you do this kind of stuff?

I'm guessing a US city-born kid
http://youtu.be/3QG-APBZQH0

Russian soldiers
http://youtu.be/rNXKuwhhC1c?t=1m15s

They are both doing the same thing, but can you explain how one is different from an anatomical and physiological standpoint and teach someone how to do the proper way. There are very few masters on any level that can teach this kind of stuff. In fact there are very few people who can kick properly. Fundamentals of real TMA.

If your MMA training encompasses this level of strength, flexibility, coordination, balance well I applaud you.
 
About 10 years ago I did a freestyle martial art(MMA) at cliff lenderman's academy. I miss it a lot. I loved it. Learned jiu jitsu, boxing, muay thai, kali, knife fighting and defense, wing chun, and a bunch of other things. My seifu was in a few crappy movies too, as well as some episodes of northern exposure and bill nye.

AmericanShaolin+1991-5-b.jpg


This is him in king of the kickboxers 2 American Shaolin, which is cheesy awesome. Funny enough I had actually seen the movie before I started it. The dude was a beast in size, but so incredibly fast. It was amazing seeing him show us stuff on the other black belts. He showed us a sort of custom kata you could use against an attacker that involved, a punch to the throat, eye gouge, elbow to the face and some knees. He said if you actually used it against someone and they are still getting up to run. lol. Told us straight off the bat belts didn't matter. Usually we would practice muay thai or boxing for half an hour with the whole class altogether, then we would split up to belt groups to practice our techniques. Sometimes he would show us something new though, and we would all practice it. I would give anything to be able to afford to go back.
 
shira said:
Unless you grew up in a rural area you are probably conditioned to sit in desks, wear shoes, drive cars, and use a computer for hours a day. I would say you need a master in old-school traditional learning who grew up without these hindrances and understands how to unteach them.

Take a look at the Russian kick dance. Almost impossible for a city-born kid to do. But simple for any country-boy to do. I don't know how good you are - but can you do this kind of stuff?

I'm guessing a US city-born kid
http://youtu.be/3QG-APBZQH0

Russian soldiers
http://youtu.be/rNXKuwhhC1c?t=1m15s

They are both doing the same thing, but can you explain how one is different from an anatomical and physiological standpoint and teach someone how to do the proper way. There are very few masters on any level that can teach this kind of stuff. In fact there are very few people who can kick properly. Fundamentals of real TMA.

If your MMA training encompasses this level of strength, flexibility, coordination, balance well I applaud you.
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Did you not glean from the rest of my post that I train TMA?

You are comparing trained army soldiers with a kid fucking around in a park? I cant take you seriously with this argument in the slightest. If you are seriously, seriously suggesting that no one in MMA or MA schools can kick properly, then i just dont know what to say to you really.

For record I can do pistol squats and such (thank you Pavel Tsatsouline). And i actually learned on my own before i ever met my sifu, so there goes that theory, lol. Those russian guys are probably taught and conditioned using military martial arts, which are closer to MMA than TMA either.

I actually find this whole thing somewhat ridiculous, as im not an MMA fan or enthusiast in the slightest.
 
TMA still has a place. TMA studio owners though better diversify if they wanna be profitable. it's like the fitness industry, it goes through trends. in fact, how many MA studios you know also offer Zumba? I personally love sparring in muay Thai and bjj and both studios I've been too had me sparring day 1. it isn't for everyone though and that's where TMA comes in.
 
getting punched in the face with some 16oz gloves or getting triangle choked is something I suggest everyone should try at least once.
 
I whole-heartedly disagree with sparring day 1 in Muay Thai.

Focus mits, maybe some controlled light contact...get a feel for it for at least a month.

Then move to sparring.
 
Tex117 said:
I whole-heartedly disagree with sparring day 1 in Muay Thai.

Focus mits, maybe some controlled light contact...get a feel for it for at least a month.

Then move to sparring.
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instructor paired me with an experienced guy who taught me things. no one was out to rip my head off. day 1 sparring was really all boxing where you learn not to drop your hands or you'll get hit.
 
shira said:
Unless you grew up in a rural area you are probably conditioned to sit in desks, wear shoes, drive cars, and use a computer for hours a day. I would say you need a master in old-school traditional learning who grew up without these hindrances and understands how to unteach them.
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I used to work with a national record-holding long distance runner, and I asked him why the Africans were so dominant, and he basically said what you just said. He would run smaller races for quick money, and if someone ran ahead, he could tell just by their gait at what point he'll be passing the guy down the road. Shoes too. The way people sit in chairs is bad for their flexibility, and ultimately limits the range of motion required to effectively run a 10k in the most efficient manner, bio-mechanically. Shoes also harm form because you can slap your foot all over the place when they're cushioned, but it's another matter to run like that when it's just flesh and bone hitting the ground.
 
Would really like to get into BJJ but feeling that having recently turned 29 I'm just too old (have never taken a martial arts class in my life, not even karate as a child).

Maybe some of you more experienced guys could let me know if I have missed the boat or not?
 
Cozzy said:
Would really like to get into BJJ but feeling that having recently turned 29 I'm just too old (have never taken a martial arts class in my life, not even karate as a child).

Maybe some of you more experienced guys could let me know if I have missed the boat or not?
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whaaaaat? No way is 29 too old. I'm 31 and I'm loving Krav Maga. 29 is still young and should be no problem at all for BJJ. We do ground work and wrestling and there are people in their fifties in some of my classes who manage just fine.
 
First bjj class was a ton of fun. We did some wrestling take downs. It was so fun. I worked with a 15 year old kid he could've owned me haha. I really sucked I didn't get all the motions but the kid was super supportive everyone was nice. Ton of fun I didn't want to leave.
 
Anyone want to recommend some Martial Arts books? Not training manuals or history lessons, but rather an author's experience training. Ideally with some international travel. I've read A Fighter's Heart by Sam Sheridan and thought it was okay. I was a little disappointed because the description made it sound like the opening 10 minutes of Samurai Jack as a book (which is what I wanted) but it felt more like an MMA history lesson then anything. I've been meaning to read American Shaolin by Matthew Polly but haven't gotten around to it yet. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Edit: Also I totally skipped the class today that I said I was going to earlier in this thread because I was sleepy :( I only told them I would be stopping by soon, not specifically today, so at least I didn't inconvenience anyone. I'm planning to go Saturday and I'm posting that in this thread so you can all shame me if I get lazy again
 
Cozzy said:
Would really like to get into BJJ but feeling that having recently turned 29 I'm just too old (have never taken a martial arts class in my life, not even karate as a child).

Maybe some of you more experienced guys could let me know if I have missed the boat or not?
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There's a two-stripe purple belt at my gym who's been training for 5 years. He's 47. We have a blue belt in his early 30s who just had his first child. And another guy who comes in with both of his teenage sons.

I didn't start until I was 27. You'll be fine.

And, if you think you might want to compete, there are age divisions too. Masters is age 30-35. Seniors 1 is 36-40, and so on.
 
Cozzy said:
Would really like to get into BJJ but feeling that having recently turned 29 I'm just too old (have never taken a martial arts class in my life, not even karate as a child).
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There are guys who roll well in their 60s. In fact, they credit their training with helping them maintain flexibility and mobility when other guys their age are slowing down and hobbling around.

Honestly, a lot of martial arts can be learned and practiced at many age ranges, including old age. It doesn't all have to be tai chi out in the park.
 
mooooose said:
First bjj class was a ton of fun. We did some wrestling take downs. It was so fun. I worked with a 15 year old kid he could've owned me haha. I really sucked I didn't get all the motions but the kid was super supportive everyone was nice. Ton of fun I didn't want to leave.
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good to hear you enjoyed it.

as to the age thing, i'm in my late 30s and just starting bjj and feel it's the best martial arts for the older folks. "older" in MA would probably be 30+. in fact, there are bjj tournaments with "senior" classes which is for 30+ or older. i'm hoping to pursue bjj and enter one of these tourney's when i'm ready. if i remember there's a blue belt minimum to enter.
 
Thanks everyone, I guess I always associated martial arts with something you try as a kid and either stick with or discard. I literally had no idea you could take this up at ages over and above my own. Looking into some BJJ classes local to myself in Liverpool, UK.

Thanks again!
 
Cozzy said:
Thanks everyone, I guess I always associated martial arts with something you try as a kid and either stick with or discard. I literally had no idea you could take this up at ages over and above my own. Looking into some BJJ classes local to myself in Liverpool, UK.

Thanks again!
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I know some of the guys in Manchester and Birmingham, if you see a school in Liverpool PM me if you like and I can find out if they are legit.
 
SteveWD40 said:
I know some of the guys in Manchester and Birmingham, if you see a school in Liverpool PM me if you like and I can find out if they are legit.
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^ Do this.

BJJ is a young enough discipline where every single black belt is able to trace their lineage (who gave them their black, and who gave THAT person their black, all the way back up the tree to Maeda). AND be very willing to share it or detail it on their webpages. It's rarely more than 5-7 steps removed.

MMA is the new big thing, so a lot of schools will offer MMA / BJJ without legit instructors. Just do some basic research, ask around (or check with SteveWD40), and then try them out in person. Usually you will get at least one free class. Some will do a free week.

As for no-gi or gi BJJ, almost all high level guys will tell you to do both. It's classically learned in a gi, where one may grab on to the clothing of the opponent, so it's much easier to make grips, and thus compounds any mistakes or actions. It's much more technical.

In no-gi, one cannot grab the other person's clothing, and with the rashguards/tshirts and shorts, most people are covered in sweat. It's much more athletic, and much more forgiving of mistakes. This is also more pertinent to MMA.

Usually schools will focus more on one or the other, but will still offer both.
 
Do you guys think taking 5 classes a week will be too much? At the moment I do Krav on a Monday, Wednesday and a Friday with Tuesday and Thursday reserved for a bit of plyometrics when I feel up to it. I was thinking of actually doing BJJ on the Tuesday and Thursday (there's a Gracie gym not far from me) but I worry that five days straight of martial arts might be too much.

Thoughts?
 
StMeph said:
^ Do this.

BJJ is a young enough discipline where every single black belt is able to trace their lineage (who gave them their black, and who gave THAT person their black, all the way back up the tree to Maeda). AND be very willing to share it or detail it on their webpages. It's rarely more than 5-7 steps removed.

MMA is the new big thing, so a lot of schools will offer MMA / BJJ without legit instructors. Just do some basic research, ask around (or check with SteveWD40), and then try them out in person. Usually you will get at least one free class. Some will do a free week.

As for no-gi or gi BJJ, almost all high level guys will tell you to do both. It's classically learned in a gi, where one may grab on to the clothing of the opponent, so it's much easier to make grips, and thus compounds any mistakes or actions. It's much more technical.

In no-gi, one cannot grab the other person's clothing, and with the rashguards/tshirts and shorts, most people are covered in sweat. It's much more athletic, and much more forgiving of mistakes. This is also more pertinent to MMA.

Usually schools will focus more on one or the other, but will still offer both.
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Yeah, that's why I offered, there are some very shady "coaches" out there who did some seminars and now teach no gi so no-one can tell they are not even graded...

England is a small Island so it's much easier to spot, there are only a few legit heritages here (Braulio Estima in Birmingham, Roger Gracies gym in London and then several of Jean Jacques Machados Black Belts dotted around, there are others but those are the main stems).
 
LTTP, but I've done both kendo and iaido for over five years. To the uninitiated, they're two different flavors of Japanese sword arts. Anyway, they're both very fun and rewarding (and humbling) but unfortunately I've been out of commission for a few months due to complications in my hip. After I recover from surgery, I'll be back at both for the rest of my life ideally.

Cozzy said:
Thanks everyone, I guess I always associated martial arts with something you try as a kid and either stick with or discard. I literally had no idea you could take this up at ages over and above my own. Looking into some BJJ classes local to myself in Liverpool, UK.

Thanks again!
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I've seen plenty of people take up physically demanding martial arts in their 50's and 60's and do better than students in their teens and twenties. Go for it!
 
Ive been contemplating making a martial arts training thread for a while like FitnessGAF. I noticed that some people are logging their shit in here. It would be nice to chop it up with gaffers and share knowledge.

Any interest?
 
Eschaton said:
Ive been contemplating making a martial arts training thread for a while like FitnessGAF. I noticed that some people are logging their shit in here. It would be nice to chop it up with gaffers and share knowledge.

Any interest?
Click to expand...

I am interested.

I want to bounce jiu jitsu ideas off of other jiujitsu folks
 
Had a seminar with Miguel Torres, now have Ze Mario Sperry coming to my school.
 
thirty said:
instructor paired me with an experienced guy who taught me things. no one was out to rip my head off. day 1 sparring was really all boxing where you learn not to drop your hands or you'll get hit.
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Oh, okay...Thats a little different than what I was thinking.
 
I've been doing mainly boxing classes with some muay thai and mma/everything goes on the side for about a year. My grappling is much worse and I haven't had enough opportunities to to spar I guess.

What do you guys feel about the amount of time you spend on training per week? I know some guys like to do like 2-3 hours per day for almost every day but I'd rather just do more intense training for shorter periods of time.
 
Totakeke said:
I've been doing mainly boxing classes with some muay thai and mma/everything goes on the side for about a year. My grappling is much worse and I haven't had enough opportunities to to spar I guess.

What do you guys feel about the amount of time you spend on training per week? I know some guys like to do like 2-3 hours per day for almost every day but I'd rather just do more intense training for shorter periods of time.
Click to expand...

If I won the lottery, I would train jiu jitsu everyday. I know guys that train almost every day, and some split a morning and evening training.

I dunno that I would do more than 4 hours a day. But that is given that I have nothing else to do. At all.
 
Totakeke said:
I've been doing mainly boxing classes with some muay thai and mma/everything goes on the side for about a year. My grappling is much worse and I haven't had enough opportunities to to spar I guess.

What do you guys feel about the amount of time you spend on training per week? I know some guys like to do like 2-3 hours per day for almost every day but I'd rather just do more intense training for shorter periods of time.
Click to expand...

I do an hour of neigong and conditioning in the morning and 2 hours of technique work in the afternoon. On days when i have lessons, I still do that first hour and then 3 with my teacher.

i take some days off once in a while but it feels like a waste when I do.

What should I title the OT?

I was thinking

NeoGAF Martial arts |OT| A Man Must Fight

but i dont wanna upset people, lol
 
Hello, yes, what do you need to know? Muay Thai, Wing Chung derivative, JuJutsu, and MMA.
 
4.5 years of Muay Thai, which I stopped in Feb. Currently into fourth month BJJ and I am loving it. Like the guy above said, it's sooo much fun. It's all I want to do at the moment but the class times don't really work with my job - get about 4-5 hours in a week including some no gi though!

It's a lot friendlier than Muay Thai, which often gets ego involved and attracts a dodgier crowd (at least in Manchester!) but BJJ is just fantastic.
 
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