• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Any gaffers actually EXCITED for Kinect?

cakefoo said:
Well they used a green-screen effect, so they were able to take some liberties, one being modifying the synchronization.

Listen during Dance Central/Poker Face. There's an echo cause by hearing parts of the song from the direct feed, then through their studio microphones. The amount the direct feed audio is ahead of the mic audio should be equal to how much shifting they did.
Click to expand...

Why would they alter the video?
 
It'll be bittersweet to see my thread disappear, but I'll be damned if there hasn't been at least a small difference in tone from the first dozen or so pages until now. And once people get to play it, like I did, there should be even more folks positive on Kinect. I'm actually really excited, which is why I started this thread in the first place. :D
 
VanMardigan said:
It'll be bittersweet to see my thread disappear, but I'll be damned if there hasn't been at least a small difference in tone from the first dozen or so pages until now. And once people get to play it, like I did, there should be even more folks positive on Kinect. I'm actually really excited, which is why I started this thread in the first place. :D
Click to expand...

There has been a massive shift in tone as i suspected there would be.
 
cakefoo said:
Well they used a green-screen effect, so they were able to take some liberties, one being modifying the synchronization.

Listen during Dance Central/Poker Face. There's an echo cause by hearing parts of the song from the direct feed, then through their studio microphones. The amount the direct feed audio is ahead of the mic audio should be equal to how much shifting they did.
Click to expand...
There's an echo because its a large studio and they have no direct feed audio. You can hear it during the intro to kinectimals, too. You hear audio from the TV going into their mic, then the echo in the studio. Or it could be direct feed plus audio going into their mic.

If you really think Microsoft is paying for them to jeopardize their credibility, especially with a product that is coming out next week in which people would be able to find out for themselves how the lag is, then... :-(
 
Karma said:
Why would they alter the video?
Click to expand...
It's a green-screen job--- they have to composite the direct feed overtop of the camera feed in post, and as the editor you'll have multiple AV files, and have to manually decide the sync points, and consciously or unconsciously, you're going to probably want to sync the human and avatar movement for the most pleasing presentation. Now, I'm not saying they're hiding the lag intentionally, but that it's undeniably foolish to try to pretend this video is proof that the lag has improved.

The feeds definitely weren't properly synced. There's an echo of 450ms, which can be heard at 12:25, when the game instructor says "Hold out your hand and swipe it in front of you like this (this)."

I don't believe the video and game are actually off by the same amount as the direct and mic audio, though. I've only ever seen Kinect be about 330ms off. And the reason the video can be desynched more or less than the audio is because there were no doubt several audio and video streams in this production, and you have to sync all of them together.

Chairhome said:
There's an echo because its a large studio and they have no direct feed audio.
Click to expand...
Why would you think it's not direct feed audio? They clearly have direct feed video... Mind you, the very first few minutes of gameplay sounded like they didn't have direct feed, but then it got more clear. edit: I can hear the transition from 11:20-11:30.

You can hear it during the intro to kinectimals, too. You hear audio from the TV going into their mic, then the echo in the studio. Or it could be direct feed plus audio going into their mic.
Click to expand...
It's direct feed plus the studio mic, the studio mic doesn't add the sharp echo, it only adds a soft reverberation. The sharp echo is caused by there being two audio streams.

If you really think Microsoft is paying for them to jeopardize their credibility, especially with a product that is coming out next week in which people would be able to find out for themselves how the lag is, then... :-(
Click to expand...
Now that's ridiculous. I don't think MS is paying them to hide the lag. There's nothing about moneyhats in why GS presented it the way they did. They did it because that's how you do greenscreen videos.

Oddly enough, though, GS did disclose at the beginning of the video that MS gave them "weird" instructions in terms of not being able to film anything but "the games." Does that mean they can't film the dash? (they filmed the dash) or does it mean they can't film themselves PLAYING it unless they sidestep it using a greenscreen? That would be convenient for MS, as the result was that the lag couldn't be determined.
 
cakefoo said:
Well they used a green-screen effect, so they were able to take some liberties, one being modifying the synchronization.

Listen during Dance Central/Poker Face. There's an echo cause by hearing parts of the song from the direct feed, then through their studio microphones. The amount the direct feed audio is ahead of the mic audio should be equal to how much shifting they did.
Click to expand...

I've seen plenty of Kinect related message board nonsense, but this definitely takes the cake :lol
 
cakefoo said:
Ironic then. Oh well. You wanna stuff your head in the sand, fine. *waves
Click to expand...

as bad as it was, did you watch the HSN video? What you see is what you get as far as lag goes. is it a lot? who knows?

did the gamespot people complain about it? no. they even asked before starting joyride whether the controls would be responsive, and once they started they all said "seems fine".

but keep fighting the good fight.
 
cakefoo said:
It's a green-screen job--- they have to composite the direct feed overtop of the camera feed in post, and as the editor you'll have multiple AV files, and have to manually decide the sync points, and consciously or unconsciously, you're going to probably want to sync the human and avatar movement for the most pleasing presentation. Now, I'm not saying they're hiding the lag intentionally, but that it's undeniably foolish to try to pretend this video is proof that the lag has improved.

The feeds definitely weren't properly synced. There's an echo of 450ms, which can be heard at 12:25, when the game instructor says "Hold out your hand and swipe it in front of you like this (this)."

I don't believe the video and game are actually off by the same amount as the direct and mic audio, though. I've only ever seen Kinect be about 330ms off. And the reason the video can be desynched more or less than the audio is because there were no doubt several audio and video streams in this production, and you have to sync all of them together.

Why would you think it's not direct feed audio? They clearly have direct feed video... Mind you, the very first few minutes of gameplay sounded like they didn't have direct feed, but then it got more clear. edit: I can hear the transition from 11:20-11:30.

It's direct feed plus the studio mic, the studio mic doesn't add the sharp echo, it only adds a soft reverberation. The sharp echo is caused by there being two audio streams.

Now that's ridiculous. I don't think MS is paying them to hide the lag. There's nothing about moneyhats in why GS presented it the way they did. They did it because that's how you do greenscreen videos.

Oddly enough, though, GS did disclose at the beginning of the video that MS gave them "weird" instructions in terms of not being able to film anything but "the games." Does that mean they can't film the dash? (they filmed the dash) or does it mean they can't film themselves PLAYING it unless they sidestep it using a greenscreen? That would be convenient for MS, as the result was that the lag couldn't be determined.
Click to expand...
I apologize, I was replying to the sarcastic reply of the moneyhats, but I do think you just hear the echo cause of the direct feed plus what is picked up on the mic (as stated in my edit). I think you're really overthinking this though, and we'll all be the judges come next week, especially since a lot of people in this thread are already committed to picking it up.
 
The Gamespot video has me even more hooked on Kinect. My friends and even my family are gonna be all over this thing!
 
Chairhome said:
I apologize, I was replying to the sarcastic reply of the moneyhats, but I do think you just hear the echo cause of the direct feed plus what is picked up on the mic (as stated in my edit). I think you're really overthinking this though, and we'll all be the judges come next week, especially since a lot of people in this thread are already committed to picking it up.
Click to expand...

This is my stance. Why bother trying to interpolate data from a bunch of streaming video from websites when a ton of people here and elsewhere will have them next week. Not everyone excited to get them is necessarily going to be biased and I assume there will be plenty of impressions for all of the launch software.
 
SeaOfMadness said:
as bad as it was, did you watch the HSN video? What you see is what you get as far as lag goes. is it a lot? who knows?
Click to expand...
Yes. It varied from 6-10 frames of lag. That's as much as a third of a second of delay. Wii Sports Resort by comparison is 2-3x faster.

did the gamespot people complain about it? no.
Click to expand...
It wasn't the time or place to complain about it. Besides, lag is subjective. I won't take anyone's word for it. Don't take my word for it either. Please. However, these people watching the green-screen video and saying "The lag is definitely improved" need to be educated as to why it's impossible to determine that. I guess my "technical" speak flew over everyone's heads though. Yeah, shame on me for trying to spoil the party with things like facts.
 
After watching that gamespot preview my predictions from E3 still pretty much stand. Ubi Fitness was the BEST 3D video capture tech out of all the other games and will sell very well. Dance Dance Central is just accurate enough and will sell around 5 Billion copies. Everything else was either mediocre in design and concept or had garbage controls; most notably the Table Tennis and driving games.

All in all I think Kinect will do very well at launch thanks to DDC and the UBI Fitness game. Nintendo has proven that all it takes is two very solid titles, amidst a plethora of broken shovelware, to sell a new motion device at launch.
 
Chairhome said:
I apologize, I was replying to the sarcastic reply of the moneyhats, but I do think you just hear the echo cause of the direct feed plus what is picked up on the mic (as stated in my edit). I think you're really overthinking this though, and we'll all be the judges come next week, especially since a lot of people in this thread are already committed to picking it up.
Click to expand...
I wasn't overthinking. I might be going into convoluted technical detail, but my only personal thoughts in reaction to the footage was merely, "This is a greenscreen video, and the audio streams are out of sync, so I have to disregard any responsiveness cues." Imagine my hilarious shock when I read from everyone in this thread, that "Wow, it looks so much more responsive now! I'm getting it day one!!!"

I'm being painted as an idiot for pointing out the facts, God forbid. I've already explained things scientifically, what more can I do? I guess I could stay for the personal attacks...
 
I fear I have to give this warning to the potential gaffer early adopters. Never buy an MS product at launch folks.

Fool me once; shame on you.
Fool me twice; shame on you again.
Fool me thrice; I throw a broken 360/kinect bundle at your head.
 
see5harp said:
This is my stance. Why bother trying to interpolate data from a bunch of streaming video from websites when a ton of people here and elsewhere will have them next week. Not everyone excited to get them is necessarily going to be biased and I assume there will be plenty of impressions for all of the launch software.
Click to expand...
Because framecounting doesn't lie. It doesn't have a bias. Aside from a 1-frame or so margin of error, it's a very informative set of data that speaks loads more to me than some journalist who gives an arbitrary thumbs up or down about his rough recollection of how it felt to him/her when he played it the night before. And once you play the games and get a taste for how various frames of latency actually feels, framecounting quickly makes complete sense.
 
cakefoo said:
I'm being painted as an idiot for pointing out the facts, God forbid.
Click to expand...

You have some interesting observations, and it's possible you are right, however I think calling your observations facts is a little absurd. Anyway, I don't mind you in the Kinect threads. I certainly think it's reasonable to be skeptical about Kinect.
 
What are you guys on about? The stuff in the Gamespot video looks like a joke. Nothing works properly there! It's a jittery mess.

I think a lot of people here have buyer's blinds on.

It's a success already, good for Microsoft. But those games.. Come on, man.
 
wmat said:
What are you guys on about? The stuff in the Gamespot video looks like a joke. Nothing works properly there! It's a jittery mess.

I think a lot of people here have buyer's blinds on.

It's a success already, good for Microsoft. But those games.. Come on, man.
Click to expand...

Please explain how YourShape looks like it doesn't work properly.
 
Pre-ordered, although it's still three weeks away here in Oz.

I'm interested in the fitness stuff and the dance game (for reasons of fitness also). I'd rather groove and learn some co-ordination rather than jogging.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Fallout: New Vegas Dev Warns Not To Get Excited For A Remaster
Opinion Game Dev 
27
235
JohnnyFootball replied
The Backbone gen 2 controller for iOS/Android is actually pretty good
1
128
Spukc replied
Are there any games you are EXCITED for on the horizon?
2 3 4
162
8K
Salmonboy replied
  • Poll
Are you excited for GTA 6?
2 3 4
165
3K
MMaRsu replied
any chance for police knots and or snatcher on Modern Hardware?
19
171
AeonGaidenRaiden replied
Top Bottom