dragonzdogma
Member
If you really want to debate the Bible with me I'll be more than Glad to PM ME
Apologies for going off topic:
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Any non-theist Satanists here?
- Thread starter Kevyt
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If you really want to debate the Bible with me I'll be more than Glad to PM ME
Apologies for going off topic:
they do not worship him though. he's a symbol of what they represent, he is not their "god".
Uh yes. Is something wrong with that?
dragonzdogma
Member
why should a religion (that not every one follows) be allowed to be blanketed over the entire governing body which covers 318 million people? why should you be able to have a statue for something that has yet to be proven scientifically while people who hold a philosophical view on life can not?
I flirted with the idea until I realized it is basically atheism with some ritualistic/philosophical tenants on the side.
The point though it's being counterculture, Christianity in all its presentations denounced Satanism and used it's imagery to persecute groups of people that were in their way, but these groups never really worshiped any Satan or demons. There were pagan religions persecuted to extinction and their symbols were (ironically) appropriated as "satanic", famous demons like Baal or Tiamat were simply gods of other cultures. I think the highlight of these ridiculousness was Baphomet, a complete construction of the church to persecute and execute templars, no templar worshiped Baphomet simply because he didn't even existed, he's completely made up. Satanists took all this in modern times and just appropriate them as a counter to Christianity.
The point though it's being counterculture, Christianity in all its presentations denounced Satanism and used it's imagery to persecute groups of people that were in their way, but these groups never really worshiped any Satan or demons. There were pagan religions persecuted to extinction and their symbols were (ironically) appropriated as "satanic", famous demons like Baal or Tiamat were simply gods of other cultures. I think the highlight of these ridiculousness was Baphomet, a complete construction of the church to persecute and execute templars, no templar worshiped Baphomet simply because he didn't even existed, he's completely made up. Satanists took all this in modern times and just appropriate them as a counter to Christianity.
dragonzdogma
Member
I wish I could ask these questions to our Founding Fathers of the United States.
I personally don't believe that science can prove everything,but that is besides the point.
I hope we don't get just anyones philosophical view statues everywhere, that would be chaos.
As for the Ten Commandments Tablet I personally think it's a good thing
1. Love God With All Your Heart (meaning to those who built this monument and Christians)
2. Worship only God (meaning to those who built the monument and Christians)
3. Keep God's Name Holy
4. Keep God's Day Special
5. Obey Your Mom and Dad
6. Do Not Kill
7. Be Faithful In Marriage
8. Do Not Steal
9. Never Tell A Lie
10. Don't Be Jealous Of What Others Have
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
Not everyone in the US is Christian, and there's something called the separation of church and state, which your founding fathers supported.
There probably won't be that many statues, you shouldn't be worried.
Also, take buddhism, that one is closer to a philosophical view than an ordinary religion as some christians might think, it's borderline atheism. It only happens that it has an enormous history behind it which is a luxury satanists don't have, but if Budhism can be considered a religion Satanism certainly can too.
Relativ9
Member
I'd probably fit in pretty well with their "belief" structure, but I can't stand the theatrical nature of the whole thing.
It's basically a mix anti-theist, humanist, and individualist ideals dressed up for Halloween. A bit childish to feel the need to sex up good ideas that should be allowed to stand on their own if you ask me.
It's basically a mix anti-theist, humanist, and individualist ideals dressed up for Halloween. A bit childish to feel the need to sex up good ideas that should be allowed to stand on their own if you ask me.
And what it used to be? Like the "good ol' days"? Where men were men, women were viewed as a commodity and babies factories and the blacks and other minorities knew their place back in the bus, or dragged around tied to a horse or more recently the truck?
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[IMG]https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1013643_379851755544651_6273806320883886084_n.jpg?oh=fd5ea97262f829f6725fe9547f8e2aab&oe=5656A9FE[/IMG]Seven4sses
Member
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
As far as the Job story goes. It's one I generally don't like, (because of the family and animals that were killed) and one that I think was likely a story passed down (not an actual event that was believed to have transpired)
Regardless the "Satan" that appears in Job was the ha-satan, the accuser or objector, who God talks to about man. The ha-satan is more like a guy that is in your group that may be a cynic but you keep them in your group because they bring outside opinions to the group. The ha-satan is basically telling God he doesn't feel that Job, the pinnacle of worshipping God apparently, would actually worship him if he wasn't so successfull. The problem that arises from this poem is that it really seems to ignore the omnipotence of God. God would already know what would happen and the ha-satan should know he is always going to be right.
Regardless the "Satan" that appears in Job was the ha-satan, the accuser or objector, who God talks to about man. The ha-satan is more like a guy that is in your group that may be a cynic but you keep them in your group because they bring outside opinions to the group. The ha-satan is basically telling God he doesn't feel that Job, the pinnacle of worshipping God apparently, would actually worship him if he wasn't so successfull. The problem that arises from this poem is that it really seems to ignore the omnipotence of God. God would already know what would happen and the ha-satan should know he is always going to be right.
Bible Satan is quite the interesting character, I was completely in shock when I was discussing the Bible here with someone and he explained how Satan appears to actually be in heaven for most of the Bible and he only falls later, those are the kind of things you are not taught in catholic school.
It makes sense I guess. Just then, why pick Satan or even call it Satanism? He carries such a negative connotation in his name. Plenty of other figures too that are symbols of ant-authority.
Malcom-Xinism maybe?
Satanism without actually worshipping Satan just seems like attention seeking (shock value).
Malcom-Xinism maybe?
Satanism without actually worshipping Satan just seems like attention seeking (shock value).
What it used to be? A secular nation with separation of church and state?
This is always good for the lulz:
Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates.
Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
Satan represents man as just another animal (sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all fours), who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all.
Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years.
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
Do not harm little children.
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.
Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates.
Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
Satan represents man as just another animal (sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all fours), who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all.
Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years.
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
Do not harm little children.
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.
"Wooi....I'm drunk!"
Where did this come from?
Edit: Oh wow, it's real. Leveyen Satanists are fedora nuts. No wonder that Satanic Temple website tries to distance itself from them.
Monocle
Member
Seems much more healthy and reasonable than Christianity, honestly.
Get out of my room, Mom!
Conkersbadfurday
Member
I imagine there's lots of bourbon in Hell. And more interesting company.
Indeed. I like some of the tenets of laveyan satanism but then they go to the deep end, and then there's their true belief in magic............
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The ha-satan is whatever is against something. It's a generic noun for someone against something. The ha before satan literally means The, so it isn't talking in that language about an actual being called satan. I don't know about the parts with Satan being actually in heaven you are talking about comes from. We don't exactly the angels (sons of god) and ha-satan (The obstructor, challenger, opposer) meet God. It could be relatively guessed they present themselves to God in heaven.
Problem is that even with our advancements in linguistics and knowing what is likely a truer more understanding translation, most Bible translations still try to confirm with what was believed in the past. Below is the translation from the English Standard Version.
The bible this is taken from does acknowledge with the b annotation at the bottom
"Job 1:6 Hebrew the Accuser or the Adversary; so throughout chapters 12"
We have the same problem in the verse that talks about "Lucifer" which is really just about a Babylonian King called in the verse "Morning Star" that fell out of grace. Literally the paragraph before this verse and after this verse are talking about the Babylonian King, so it's any guess how they screwed up.
you mean people that haven't fallen to the hands of an imaginary god in exchange of giving up control of their rational thinking and fate?
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