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[farnham]

Hey, I'm not entirely convinced wii fit u is going to do awesome either. Stuff like that is 99% dependent on marketing anyway.

You need amazing advertising to sell people a 300€/$ console just to play the same stuff they already got on their Wii (and probably got tired of years ago).

i think we can all agree that nintendo did horribly with advertising. ithink there are still some ads that nintendo produces that are pretty good (NSMB2 in NA and the new Brain Age commercial for NA for example)


yes they need to do good advertising no doubt about it.

I´m talking about the console itself. And it doesn´t really make sense to compare one hit wonder casual stuff to established franchises with a gigantic fanbase.

how is wii fit a one hit wonder. the direct sequel sold roughly the same amount of copies (20 million)

also your gigantic fanbase game sold roughly the same as each wii fit iterations did (cod usually sells 20 million each year across platforms and GTA4 did 20 million on PS3 and 360)

 

[Sandfox]

i think that and the fact that wiiu is 100 dollar to expensive is a big problem in all regions

IMO The Wii U isn't all that expensive in Japan.

 

[big youth]

You need amazing advertising to sell people a 300€/$ console just to play the same stuff they already got on their Wii (and probably got tired of years ago).

You're right, but I'm just pointing out that advertising is the most important part of selling a casual game like Wii Fit. look no further than Apple to see that people will pay whatever cost to get something that seems hip. this is the only way I can imagine Wii Fit will be a system seller. roping in casuals ain't like it used to be.

 

[AOC83]

You're right, but I'm just pointing out that advertising is the most important part of selling a casual game like Wii Fit. look no further than Apple to see that people will pay whatever cost to get something that seems hip. this is the only way I can imagine Wii Fit will be a system seller. roping in casuals ain't like it used to be.

The problem here is that you can´t force people to think of your stuff as hip. Sure , marketing helps but it´s just a part of the package. WiiFit and the Wii were hip years ago, they ren´t anymore, people moved on and no marketing in the world is going to change that.

 

[farnham]

The problem here is that you can´t force people to think of your stuff as hip. Sure , marketing helps but it´s just a part of the package. WiiFit and the Wii were hip years ago, they ren´t anymore, people moved on and no marketing in the world is going to change that.

so basically what you are saying is "resign nintendo you cant do anything go make hanafudas?"


sure there are factors that need to be considered regarding wii party and wii fit. clearly the brand name have suffered due to the absence of 2011 and 2012. However just to resign isnt what a company should do unless it has no resouces anymore.

also my original post was

i dont think we have to wait that long. nintendo needs to create a considerable userbase before PS4 launches. at this points its only possible to do with wii fit and wii party

its clear that I am saying that it is nintendos only hope that the casuals get interested in wii again not that its a surefire hit.

 

[big youth]

we all assume Wii left a bad taste in peoples mouths, but I think that's only partially true. if advertised well, some casuals will be excited to see that a new Wii Fit is out and they can take the board out of their closet and get back on a health kick

I also think we've just seen the tip of the ice burg in terms of exercise games. maybe it won't have a resurgence this gen, but who doesn't want to make exercising fun? the potential is through the roof. Will Wii Fit U live up to that potential? not from what I've seen...so I guess this is just a side tangent.

 

[AOC83]

so basically what you are saying is "resign nintendo you cant do anything go make hanafudas?"

Nope, not really. I´m only saying that the Wii time is over and Nintendo has to fully return to real games with a real high quality. Cheap gimmick stuff doesn´t cut it anmymore.

 

[farnham]

we all assume Wii left a bad taste in peoples mouths, but I think that's only partially true. if advertised well, some casuals will be excited to see that a new Wii Fit is out and they can take the board out of their closet and get back on a health kick

I also think we've just seen the tip of the ice burg in terms of exercise games. maybe it won't have a resurgence this gen, but who doesn't want to make exercising fun? the potential is through the roof. Will Wii Fit U live up to that potential? not from what I've seen...so I guess this is just a side tangent.

if wii was so bad how come it sold better than ps3 and 360 and also sold more software?

wii userbase is at nearly 100 million and 800 million games have been sold in total. if the wii was so bad like people claim here it would have gotten tremendously bad reputation even among the casuals

its amazing how some people think only they are able to make good decisions and other people throw away money without thinking about it.

Nope, not really. I´m only saying that the Wii time is over and Nintendo has to fully return to real games with a real high quality. Cheap gimmick stuff doesn´t cut it anmymore.

wii party is what they made since n64. its mario party with the wii branding.

wii fit is a very good software that i use every day. maybe not the balance board games but definately the muscle excercize aerobics and body measurement part of it.

your demand to them sounds like "make games that i like" to me. here is the shocker for you. those games sell even worse for nintendo.

 

[Sandfox]

we all assume Wii left a bad taste in peoples mouths, but I think that's only partially true. if advertised well, some casuals will be excited to see that a new Wii Fit is out and they can take the board out of their closet and get back on a health kick

I also think we've just seen the tip of the ice burg in terms of exercise games. maybe it won't have a resurgence this gen, but who doesn't want to make exercising fun? the potential is through the roof. Will Wii Fit U live up to that potential? not from what I've seen...so I guess this is just a side tangent.

The Wii still received casual support that sold decently and they still got use out of their Wiis so I don't think as many people were soured by it as you would be led to believe.

 

[farnham]

The Wii still received casual support that sold decently and they still got use out of their Wiis so I don't think as many people were soured by it as you would be led to believe.

i said time and time again that one of nintendos biggest mistake with wiiu was that they tried to lure in hardcore gamers and neglected casual gamers relatively.

i hope wiifit will be the time where they shift fully to casual gamer marketing again. because nintendo is already a lost cause with hardcore gamers.

 

[AOC83]

wii fit is a very good software that i use every day. maybe not the balance board games but definately the muscle excercize aerobics and body measurement part of it.

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

Fully return to real games...

Is Nintendo 93% casualware and 7% real games or is it more like 99% gimmick grandma and 1% kiddy games?

 

[AOC83]

i said time and time again that one of nintendos biggest mistake with wiiu was that they tried to lure in hardcore gamers and neglected casual gamers relatively.

How exactly did they do that? By releasing a console with horrible hardware, bad online and zero must have exclusive core titles?

 

[PetrCobra]

Do you have an opinion on the subject? Because I'm also still using Wii Fit (Plus), my girlfriend as well (she's very active in fitness and likes the game very much). You seem to be very amused by the possibility something like that could be true, why is that?

 

[farnham]

Do you have an opinion on the subject? Because I'm also still using Wii Fit (Plus), my girlfriend as well (she's very active in fitness and likes the game very much). You seem to be very amused by the possibility something like that could be true, why is that?

I think he is just rude. I like the fact that wii fit keeps track of things automatically and i know how much i weighted one year in prior compared to now (also helps me to choose the foods i consume).

 

[farnham]

How exactly did they do that? By releasing a console with horrible hardware, bad online and zero must have exclusive core titles?

I dont know. Thats what is puzzling to me too. They had to go fully casual from day one and they tried to convey the message. Hey dudes we care about harcore dudebros without having anything to back it up. If they had gone fully wii sports u day one and only marketed it to the casual crowd (which they didnt. Well they did zero marketing in fact) they would have been much more succesful

Fully return to real games...

Is Nintendo 93% casualware and 7% real games or is it more like 99% gimmick grandma and 1% kiddy games?

Yeah that would mean nintendo insta third party. I would suggest them to go 100% casual or bridge title and ditch games like zelda entirely as you can make 4 wii__ titles for the xost of one zelda title

 

[Vinnk]

I use it to. When it's too cold to exercise outside or I am putting on a bit of weight. But I guess that argument is not valid after tomcruise.gif

 

[ozfunghi]

Do you have an opinion on the subject? Because I'm also still using Wii Fit (Plus), my girlfriend as well (she's very active in fitness and likes the game very much). You seem to be very amused by the possibility something like that could be true, why is that?

The guy is a known troll.

From march to september, i use it also constantly to track weight when i ride my bike.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Did Wii Fit/Fit+ cause large numbers of Wii system sales?

Or rather, did a large base of expanded audience consumers buy the Wii for motion control/Wii Sports... And then subsequently a number of them bought these fitness games?

I would put my money on the latter. The same question can be posed of any potential Wii U chalkboard entry.

 

[My words exactly!]

If ANYTHING has been proven time and time again, is that no market is ''locked'' by any console, especially an unproven and uninteresting as the Wii U is so far.
Things can change. Even the 3DS which currently reigns in Japan is not secured in the long run.

Off topic: I know ''this is neogaf dude'' but holy SHIT, what is it with CREEPY AS FUCK and badly photoshopped influx of Κaz avatars in the recent weeks>

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I totally underestimated the power of Japan moving from home consoles to handhelds.

 

[donny2112]

Did Wii Fit/Fit+ cause large numbers of Wii system sales?

Yes. I've done analysis of Wii Fit/Wii Fit Plus to weekly Wii sales in Japan a few years ago, and it was a fairly consistent percentage (30-50% weekly sales, IIRC). More convincingly, Nintendo put out stats from Club Nintendo showing that Wii Fit Plus was the largest % of games registered with the Wii in Fall 2009, even greatly more than New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Want to say it was like 50% compared to 25-30%. It's in the IR docs from around that time.

Or rather, did a large base of expanded audience consumers buy the Wii for motion control/Wii Sports... And then subsequently a number of them bought these fitness games?

Sure, there was a lot of that, too. *raises hand* Wii Fit/Wii Fit Plus were still one of the highest (if not second behind Wii Sports) true system sellers on Wii, though.

I would put my money on the latter.

Aren't you glad I responded before you did so?

Spoiler

 

[H_Prestige]

This thread is so funny in retrospect.

 

[jay]

This thread is so funny in retrospect.

Yet Iwata isn't laughing.

 

[lwilliams3]

This thread is so funny in retrospect.

Too soon for that. Ironically, your post could be ironic in retrospect later in the year.

 

[schuelma]

This thread is so funny in retrospect.

I absolutely was wrong on NSMB U's selling power and absolutely overestimated the launch sales.

I do think it is way too premature to be bumping and gloating.

 

[walking fiend]

This thread is so funny in retrospect.

I doubt so really; it's almost the 3DS situation all over again: No game, high entry price.

I think one of the their main mistakes was misjudging the popularity of Mario and the amount they could milk it; take 3DS again, they have released several of their traditionally million sellers, but they didn't live up to their expectations; one could be inclined to say that the 3DS doesn't have the capacity to move multi million sellers, but now look at AC, which is selling significantly better compared to previous titles at the same time.

I believe Nintendo's biggest challenge is developing new IPs, or at least new type of games based on their existing IPs. This is usually something which 3rd parties take care of, but usually if you are not Nintendo.

 

[denshuu]

Well this is awkward.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I doubt so really; it's almost the 3DS situation all over again: No game, high entry price.

It's really not like that at all. The handhelds are a completely different beast. That's a market where major exclusives still exist. And a market where Nintendo can seemingly get any game that they want on the 3DS. That obviously isn't happening with the Wii U.

 

[cyberheater]

This thread is so funny in retrospect.

Yes it is. Such high hopes.

 

[Roman]

I doubt so really; it's almost the 3DS situation all over again: No game, high entry price.

From a consumer standpoint, I hope so. However, the annual results briefing won't be pleasant.

 

[PdotMichael]

Yes it is. Such high hopes.

well, the other new consoles can still sell less than the Wii U.

There is still hope!

 

[walking fiend]

It's really not like that at all. The handhelds are a completely different beast. That's a market where major exclusives still exist. And a market where Nintendo can seemingly get any game that they want on the 3DS. That obviously isn't happening with the Wii U.

If you compare how many million sellers PS3 had to that of Wii, I would say still the gap between the two is quite large.

But of course, handhelds in general get much more attention in Japan; no one expects Wii U to sell even PS2 numbers, let alone handheld numbers.

However, the chances that Wii U get support from Japanese developers who make games popular in Japan, is much much more than receiving the same from Western developers. I can think of only few major franchises that may not be released on Wii U: Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Souls series.

For other franchises, the important thing to notice is that they are not geared toward western markets, and usually are not so much dependent on high end graphics.

 

[evangd007]

I don't expect much of anything out of PS4 in Japan. Developers have moved on to handhelds or the Wii U. It has the potential to be a Wii U-in-Europe sized debacle, especially if the rumors we hear are true about the Killzone 4 being the system-seller at launch (Japan doesn't care) and the 40,000 yen launch price (way too much).

The reality of this situation is that home consoles are no longer a dominant force in Japan at all.

 

[jwhit28]

I wonder if Animal Crossing Wii U has become a high priority title. Miiverse could really add a lot.

 

[H_Prestige]

If you compare how many million sellers PS3 had to that of Wii, I would say still the gap between the two is quite large.

But of course, handhelds in general get much more attention in Japan; no one expects Wii U to sell even PS2 numbers, let alone handheld numbers.

However, the chances that Wii U get support from Japanese developers who make games popular in Japan, is much much more than receiving the same from Western developers. I can think of only few major franchises that may not be released on Wii U: Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Souls series.

For other franchises, the important thing to notice is that they are not geared toward western markets, and usually are not so much dependent on high end graphics.

Why would the Wii U not get those franchises, but still end up getting support from "other" JP console developers?

There's three choices for JP devs moving forward:

1. 3DS
2. PS3/Wii U
3. PS4

 

[airmangataosenai]

People that say "Look at the 3DS", especially when it comes to Japan are being pretty obtuse. Vita got blocked from the market before it launched as Nintendo had enough pull to take full control over Monster Hunter and thereby removing the flagship brand for their handheld. There is no flagship brand comparable to that for Sony consoles and even if there was Nintendo has nowhere near the influence in that market that they do with handhelds. Huge games from 3rd parties were inevitable for 3DS, the same can't be said for Wii U after the already announced lineup.

As for price, the Wii U is already the same price as the PS3. I actually thought that thread was more amusing in retrospect but bumped this one instead.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=492047

What are they doing? Sony has no sense in their upper management. I see another forced retirement coming.

 

[evangd007]

Why would the Wii U not get those franchises, but still end up getting support from "other" JP console developers?

There's three choices for JP devs moving forward:

1. 3DS
2. PS3/Wii U
3. PS4

Focus of the target audience. Those franchises listed have a global target audience. Japanese target games, like, say, Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter, 2 huge Japanese franchises already on the Wii U and not the PS3.

So in other words, your "three choices" are already wrong.

Brace yourself for something like Persona 5 being a Wii U exclusive. Atlus already has SMT IV for 3DS and SMTxFE for Wii U in the pipe. The table is set...

 

[H_Prestige]

People that say "Look at the 3DS", especially when it comes to Japan are being pretty obtuse. Vita got blocked from the market before it launched as Nintendo had enough pull to take full control over Monster Hunter and thereby removing the flagship brand for their handheld. There is no flagship brand comparable to that for Sony consoles and even if there was Nintendo has nowhere near the influence in that market that they do with handhelds. Huge games from 3rd parties were inevitable for 3DS, the same can't be said for Wii U after the already announced lineup.

As for price, the Wii U is already the same price as the PS3. I actually thought that thread was more amusing in retrospect but bumped this one instead.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=492047

Wow, people really thought a MH port would clean up. Even after a similar game was released on ps3 and did absolutely fuck all.

Focus of the target audience. Those franchises listed have a global target audience. Japanese target games, like, say, Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter, 2 huge Japanese franchises already on the Wii U and not the PS3.

So in other words, your "three choices" are already wrong.

MH is a port of a handheld game. It doesn't mean the franchise is coming to the Wii U. DQX is a Wii port. The franchise won't be returning to Wii U. Next one will be on 3DS, just like DQVII remake.

Will there be some odd games here and there that don't fit what I posted? Sure. But they will be very rare. Hell, there will even be some Vita exclusives. But again, very rare.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I doubt so really; it's almost the 3DS situation all over again: No game, high entry price.

Its really not the 3DS situation at all because the 3DS had no real competition and also had third parties on board. WiiU has competition as it is getting outsold by the ps3 and will have the greater threat of ps4. Third parties are not on board either. Furthermore, the WiiU will probably not get a price cut like 3DS.

I absolutely was wrong on NSMB U's selling power and absolutely overestimated the launch sales.

I do think it is way too premature to be bumping and gloating.

Depends on how long people thought before it would dominate. In some cases people assumed it would explode out the gates because of a MH port and DQ port. See for yourself:

No.

Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest pretty much confirm it.

can't think of any at this point. MH and DQ at launch + at least a year head start are pretty strong indicators that JP is a done deal.

Some kind of natural disaster destroying Nintendo?

Isn't Monster Hunter a launch title? If so, then HELLLLLLLLL NO.

Mario CHECK
Monster Hunter CHECK
Dragon Quest CHECK

and MATE

It's a Nintendo console. In Japan.
They could put a turd in a box, slap a Mario/Zelda sticker on it and it would probably sell more than the competitors.

-By comparison, Wii U will receive a Monster Hunter game which will likely sell 500K or so at launch

People where honestly finding it difficult to find a reason why it would not dominate just because of a MH port, DQ port and NSMBU, making wild assumptions and overestimating hugely.

I think its time to eat crow:

 

[crinale]

Focus of the target audience. Those franchises listed have a global target audience. Japanese target games, like, say, Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter, 2 huge Japanese franchises already on the Wii U and not the PS3.

So in other words, your "three choices" are already wrong.

WiiU did have Monster Hunter at launch, and we see how it's performing.
And before some goes "but it was just a port" argument, it's highly unlikely that Capcom will ever release MH sequel to console instead of handheld.

Of course if home consoles become popular again in Japan then situation may change, but currently I can't see it coming.

 

[clem84]

Dragon Quest will make sure WiiU dominates Japan.

 

[Jamix012]

Its really not the 3DS situation at all because the 3DS had no real competition and also had third parties on board. WiiU has competition as it is getting outsold by the ps3 and will have the greater threat of ps4. Third parties are not on board either. Furthermore, the WiiU will probably not get a price cut like 3DS.



Depends on how long people thought before it would dominate. In some cases people assumed it would explode out the gates because of a MH port and DQ port. See for yourself:












People where honestly finding it difficult to find a reason why it would not dominate just because of a MH port, DQ port and NSMBU, making wild assumptions and overestimating hugely.

I think its time to eat crow:

That's a lot of pre-emptive BS in one post! I'm impressed. Frankly I'd still be surprised if the PS4 outsold the WiiU in Japan.
"Its really not the 3DS situation at all because the 3DS had no real competition and also had third parties on board"
How is it really any different? No real competition? The PSP was outselling the 3DS during it's low time, in a similar way the PS3 is outselling the WiiU now. Frankly I think you'll be the one eating crow, come holiday season.

 

[BlackJace]

The gloating is so immature lol.

 

[DragonSworne]

The only reason why Wii U won't dominate Japan is Nintendo's own incompetence.

Sony is going to have to do everything right and Nintendo will have to do everything wrong for Wii U not to dominate.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Wow, people really thought a MH port would clean up. Even after a similar game was released on ps3 and did absolutely fuck all.

The Monster Hunter port on PS3 did between 400k-500k in sales, and was nothing but a direct port without real online and the only selling point being data transfer between the versions. MH3U was the first game released to allow online gameplay for the new content, it was a much more significant release and will probably end up selling less than half of what the shoddy, critically panned PSP to PS3 port did.

 

[DragonSworne]

The Monster Hunter port on PS3 did between 400k-500k in sales, and was nothing but a direct port without real online and the only selling point being data transfer between the versions. MH3U was the first game released to allow online gameplay for the new content, it was a much more significant release and will probably end up selling less than half of what the shoddy, critically panned PSP to PS3 port did.

Nah, it will be an evergreen title

 

[H_Prestige]

That's a lot of pre-emptive BS in one post! I'm impressed. Frankly I'd still be surprised if the PS4 outsold the WiiU in Japan.
"Its really not the 3DS situation at all because the 3DS had no real competition and also had third parties on board"
How is it really any different? No real competition? The PSP was outselling the 3DS during it's low time, in a similar way the PS3 is outselling the WiiU now. Frankly I think you'll be the one eating crow, come holiday season.

3DS was like the ps3, a system with full third party support and a really high price. Solution was simple, drop the price and watch sales shoot up. It is not anything like the Wii U situation other than it has the nintendo label. People who don't look into context make such arguments.

The Monster Hunter port on PS3 did between 400k-500k in sales, and was nothing but a direct port without real online and the only selling point being data transfer between the versions. MH3U was the first game released to allow online gameplay for the new content, it was a much more significant release and will probably end up selling less than half of what the shoddy, critically panned PSP to PS3 port did.

Well damn, that makes the situation even funnier.

Nah, the Wii U version is coming to america.

Because MH is a really big deal outside of Japan? And as an exclusive to a $300 system that has major problems getting people to buy it?

Sony is going to have to do everything right and Nintendo will have to do everything wrong for Wii U not to dominate.

LOL, Nintendo is the one playing from behind here. Sony has to make sure they get next gen FF, KH, MGS, and RE and they can maintain their niche over there as the home console of choice.

 

[evangd007]

WiiU did have Monster Hunter at launch, and we see how it's performing.
And before some goes "but it was just a port" argument, it's highly unlikely that Capcom will ever release MH sequel to console instead of handheld.

Of course if home consoles become popular again in Japan then situation may change, but currently I can't see it coming.

Oh, I stated before that the stumbling of the Wii U is more of an indictment of how marginalized home consoles in Japan are in general. Thinking that the PS4 will be a wild success when it doesn't have the Japanese-audience appeal that the Wii U already has is downright foolish.

The difference is that Nintendo has pull amongst Japanese third parties due to goodwill from the 3DS and DS. On the other hand, Sony is probably trying to sell the PS4 to Japanese third parties as, "It won't be like the Vita, we swear!"

So my theses are:

1) No home consoles will dominate Japan, in the sense that neither will be able to achieve the sort of relevance and visibility of the Wii, and perhaps even the PS3.
2) Wii U, despite its stumble out of the gate, is still likely to be more successful than PS4 in Japan.

 

[Box]

Japan is still too early to call.