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[SolidusDave]

I know that my parents' GP will sometimes prescribe a homeopathic recipe, which seems bizarre to me considering the scientific consensus on the matter.

One should be aware that many doctors don't have a clue about scientific methods or how stuff works on a cellular level.
AFAIK this is especially true for older generations and fields that did not come into contact with research (modern medical schools will involve the students in research projects etc).

I met many doctors who were super into discussing research when they asked me about my job.
And others (even specialists, not GP) who would describe me the proper painkiller and antibiotics for a nerve infection - along with homeopathic sugar pills....
In that case it doesn't even make sense as a placebo. I just hope it's to get more money out of the German health insurance who bizarrely will pay for homeopathy but not for certain real treatments or e.g. "luxury" Dental stuff.

My 67 years old mother also gets a lot of homeopathic stuff recommended by the local pharmacists.
Criminals.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Well, I drink water every day!

 

[Carn82]

Oh this thread isn't what I thought it would be. I had no idea homeopathic medicine was like that. Was definitely thinking about long-known natural alleviation for certain things (i.e. ginger for stomach issues) but I guess I didn't realize they were different.

Now go and spread the word ^_^

 

[The Elite]

Anyone tried psychic healing?

 

[Carlius]

its like the placebo effect. if you believe it works, it can work. i am not a believer but my mother is and she loves them, 87 and stronger than ever lmao.

 

[SMG]

What I never got was if water can remember vibrations of everything it's been in contact with, wouldn't all water be a homeopathic remedy for pretty much every single thing?

I would think the opposite. Water is home to so much muck and shit.

 

[Alx]

One should be aware that many doctors don't have a clue about scientific methods or how stuff works on a cellular level.
AFAIK this is especially true for older generations and fields that did not come into contact with research (modern medical schools will involve the students in research projects etc).

I met many doctors who were super into discussing research when they asked me about my job.
And others (even specialists, not GP) who would describe me the proper painkiller and antibiotics for a nerve infection - along with homeopathic sugar pills....

I think we're still at an early stage of medicine as a science to be honest. Even if we're getting better at it, we often don't really know how stuff works inside the body, and why some substances seem to help or make things worse. Which is why it's still mostly a trial and error procedure, since doctors can't say "I've written that disease into an equation and I think we could cure it with a molecule that looks like this".
It also explains how so many new drugs can be accidental, "we started selling this stuff to cure hair loss, but after a while it seemed it helped patients with insomnia !"

 

[CrunchyFrog]

It's an unfortunate result of the placebo affect. There are tangible health "benefits" to self-delusion on some level, and sadly as long as that's the case desperate/ignorant people will try anything to feel better.

 

[mamoui]

Fun fact about the "active" molecule of one of homeopathic greatest vendor (in france anyway), it doesn't exist!
Oscillococinum is based of something nobody ever saw but it's inventor!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum

 

[Mistouze]

Yeah I was about to mention it. It's quite common over here, it's even a recommended treatment for cattle (!) to get the "organic food" label.
I refuse to support it out of principle, but I've had medically trained relatives defending it by saying "yeah it shouldn't work, but statistically it gives better results than placebo, so whatever...". I never checked if it was true or not though, but I wouldn't be surprised it had become some kind of cultural superstition, like fan death in Korea.

That's only because Boiron laboratories (biggest homeopathic products seller in France) is actually the one financing those studies. So... yeah.

At least it's not a burden on our health system, I can appreciate the scam they got going on.

 

[ty_hot]

I sincerely hope you never get a serious illness and turn to homeopathy.

I went through my entire childhood on homeopathy and propolis mostly (my family produces it, so I have the purest one at my disposal always).

Ofc if something worst happens I take proper medication. As I said, I know homeopathy shouldnt really help anyone lol.

 

[Alx]

Fun fact about the "active" molecule of one of homeopathic greatest vendor (in france anyway), it doesn't exist!
Oscillococinum is based of something nobody ever saw but it's inventor!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum

Oscillococcinum is used in more than 50 countries and has been in production for over 65 years.
The preparation is derived from duck liver and heart, diluted to 200C—a ratio of one part duck offal to 10^400 parts water.

The good thing is that a single duck was probably enough for 65 years of production, and then some more.

 

[RoadHazard]

One should be aware that many doctors don't have a clue about scientific methods or how stuff works on a cellular level.
AFAIK this is especially true for older generations and fields that did not come into contact with research (modern medical schools will involve the students in research projects etc).

I met many doctors who were super into discussing research when they asked me about my job.
And others (even specialists, not GP) who would describe me the proper painkiller and antibiotics for a nerve infection - along with homeopathic sugar pills....
In that case it doesn't even make sense as a placebo. I just hope it's to get more money out of the German health insurance who bizarrely will pay for homeopathy but not for certain real treatments or e.g. "luxury" Dental stuff.

My 67 years old mother also gets a lot of homeopathic stuff recommended by the local pharmacists.
Criminals.

Yep. Science-based medicin is a thing, and really the only thing physicians should be doing, but unfortunately that's not the case.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Is homeopathy a thing in the US and Canada?
It's pretty big in Germany and some other european countries which is just embarrassing.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...betting-homeopathic-quackery/article23701139/

Natural and alternative medicine also seems to have pretty big support in Canada. It disgusts me.

 

[JettDash]

I wonder if the people selling this crap even bother doing the dilutions.

I wouldn't. Waste of time.

 

[mamoui]

I wonder if the people selling this crap even bother doing the dilutions.

I wouldn't. Waste of time.

I guess they do. That's the difference between scientifical fraud and legal fraud.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'd be ready to accept that the specific ingestion method could provide a stronger placebo effect since it makes you feel like you're handling serious stuff (don't take too much or you'll die ! Don't touch the pills or you'll ruin them !), just like shamanic gestures and mystic chants would. But no way the molecules (or lack thereof) have any practical effect.
Which makes me scoff even more at using it on cattle.

Interestingly some animals have demonstrated placebo effects, so it might not be totally crazy. (On mobile so sourcing options not good. I want to say it was horses and dogs?)

As for its prevalence in developed countries, being liberal just makes you susceptible to different kinds of bullshit.

 

[chekhonte]

Sure but if you recommend homeopathic treatments for serious illnesses, it's iatrogenesis and you're putting their lives at risk. You always start will real treatment and then move on to the fairly tail treatment.

 

[daveo42]

 

[atomsk]

they've done clinical trials on zinc gluconate/zincum gluconicum and how it reduces the duration of the common cold.

outside of that specific scenario, I don't bother with any of it.

 

[Freshmaker]

they've done clinical trials on zinc gluconate/zincum gluconicum and how it reduces the duration of the common cold.

outside of that specific scenario, I don't bother with any of it.

Not hyper diluted zinc.

 

[Poppy]

i'm a big proponent of sexual healing, because i never have sex and feel bad constantly so there must be something to it

 

[JettDash]

.

 

[Adam_Vania]

i have practiced yoga for some years now. in India they have a multitude of religious traditions and many sciences of the mind and body. simply being still breathing and observing the natural state of your being can be a trans-formative (even out of body) experience. observing the observer. doctor heal thyself. i have not tried much homeopathic products (the vials and bottles are all too expensive for me im a bit of a cheapskate) but i know people that do sound healing and massage therapy and have patronized their businesses from time to time.

our car-and-screen-based modern life puts our bodies (especially our necks) in unnatural positions positions. it is good to stretch the neck, to get blood and oxygen flowing through muscles and vessels. it is good to breath in and out deeply and send that fresh air into the bits that have been neglected for hours while your read websites. neck and shoulder stretches are my favorite, a nice blast of oxygen, get you loosey goosey. also balancing and Warrior poses. your body is the perfect counterweight to your own body by design. obviously this yoga is a vast field and i have only begun to investigate it.

i have a skeptical view of legitimate medicine. it can do great harm and there is an epidemic of over-prescription and reliance on pills that dry us out, depriving us of that water, that oxygen. i dont think its that crazy to imagine that body heat and natural infared radioactivity of the living body is a power source of some kind. i have friends that do Reiki and tarot readings and all sorts of things. its cool. there is an alternative "occult" history (different from classical white western Latin/Greek atomism) and a lot of homeopathy is exploring that. medicine and psychology/psychiatry are relatively new fields of knowledge for humans, we are only just starting to dip into knowledge at the genetic level. less than 100 years ago we threw people into sanitariums and tried random drugs and violent shock treatments. imo the power of positive thinking is a far safer cure.

 

[hohoXD123]

i have practiced yoga for some years now. in India they have a multitude of religious traditions and many sciences of the mind and body. simply being still breathing and observing the natural state of your being can be a trans-formative (even out of body) experience. observing the observer. doctor heal thyself. i have not tried much homeopathic products (the vials and bottles are all too expensive for me im a bit of a cheapskate) but i know people that do sound healing and massage therapy and have patronized their businesses from time to time.

our car-and-screen-based modern life puts our bodies (especially our necks) in unnatural positions positions. it is good to stretch the neck, to get blood and oxygen flowing through muscles and vessels. it is good to breath in and out deeply and send that fresh air into the bits that have been neglected for hours while your read websites. neck and shoulder stretches are my favorite, a nice blast of oxygen, get you loosey goosey. also balancing and Warrior poses. your body is the perfect counterweight to your own body by design. obviously this yoga is a vast field and i have only begun to investigate it.

i have a skeptical view of legitimate medicine. it can do great harm and there is an epidemic of over-prescription and reliance on pills that dry us out, depriving us of that water, that oxygen. i dont think its that crazy to imagine that body heat and natural infared radioactivity of the living body is a power source of some kind. i have friends that do Reiki and tarot readings and all sorts of things. its cool. there is an alternative "occult" history (different from classical white western Latin/Greek atomism) and a lot of homeopathy is exploring that. medicine and psychology/psychiatry are relatively new fields of knowledge for humans, we are only just starting to dip into knowledge at the genetic level. less than 100 years ago we threw people into sanitariums and tried random drugs and violent shock treatments. imo the power of positive thinking is a far safer cure.

None of this makes sense. How much oxygen you get doesn't change with stretching your neck muscles, you can pretty much measure that if you want. Legitimate (like how you used that word) medicine doesn't affect oxygen and water, unless if it's intended to. Hope if you have a heart attack you don't resort to doing yoga stretches to increase blood flow to the heart. The only bit which makes slight sense is the problem of overprescribing which does happen, especially in regards to antibiotics.

 

[Xe4]

i have practiced yoga for some years now. in India they have a multitude of religious traditions and many sciences of the mind and body.
...
less than 100 years ago we threw people into sanitariums and tried random drugs and violent shock treatments. imo the power of positive thinking is a far safer cure.

A.) Homeopathy has nothing to do with "keeping water in you" or w/e. It has to do with "water memory" and "like cures like" and all of that pseudoscientific BS.
B.) Nobody is saying yoga can't be good for you. It can and does have positive effects.
C.) Neither yoga nor homeopathy will treat cancer or AIDS. They won't prevent polio, or provide help to someone with the flu. Modern medicine isn't perfect, but it has saved hundreds of millions of lives. Choose whatever you would like for yourself first, but if you have children or a loved one, please treat them with actual medicine first. It may very well save their lives.

 

[SolidusDave]

The only bit which makes slight sense is the problem of overprescribing which does happen, especially in regards to antibiotics.

Which is again based on ignorance for facts/science plus even doctors not understanding the differences between virus and bacteria.

Happened to my friend, was diagnosed for the flu and was prescribed an antibiotic (and no, not because of secondary infection risk etc).

 

[iapetus]

How does homeopathy work? It doesn't.

People who refuse medicine and die while taking homeopathic 'cures'? Well, that's just natural selection at work.

I'm now confused as to whether you actually looked at the helpful and informative website I linked you to.

 

[somecrazymember]

Problem in France and Belgium is that some people confuse homeopathy with herbal medicine.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

Can someone tell me how alternative medicine actually works when it comes to releasing it to the market?

Seriously, let's say I find a kind of plant in my backyard that does wonders for me when it comes to headaches. I do some research and find out that it does have an affect on headaches and certain kinds of migraines.

Then what? I can now decide to release it as alternative medicine without any clinical trials or regulation, or I can release it as a regular medicine, but have to go through all the medical trials and regulations?

Basically, is the prerequisite for releasing alternative medicine, that it doesn't scientifically work?

 

[Koren]

By regulate I mean not allow it to make the claims it makes or advertise making those claims. In Other words, the fda has given the industry a licence to lie. An actual drug cannot make claims not supported by evidence and numerous double blind trials, but homeopathy can.

And drugs can't do ads, homeopathy can.

Though the reason behind the fact that homeopathy doesn't need evidence is quite clear: it's cheap. Apparently, governments fear that if they somehow ban homeopathy, people will buy actual drugs instead, and the health insurance will take a dive. For small things, there's no real harm (and placebo can even help).

Interestingly some animals have demonstrated placebo effects, so it might not be totally crazy.

there' plently of placebo effects observed with animals, both related to the animals themselves and to their owner.

 

[Koren]

Basically, is the prerequisite for releasing alternative medicine, that it doesn't scientifically work?

It can work... I think the only requirement is wording: you can't call it drug/medecine. And, obviously, if it's actually toxic/dangerous, you'll have problems.

I'm also pretty sure you can be legally responsible for offering alternative medecine for cancer if you say allopathic treatments should be avoided, for example.


You know, the whole gluten-free movement isn't that different (there ARE people who have issue with gluten, but it's nowhere close to the number of people that THINK they are)

 

[KDR_11k]

It's a cheap and safe way to satisfy patients who want medicine but don't really need any. E.g. my mother used to take Ibuprofen to relax but since she believes in homeopathic nonsense she just takes some drops from that now. I'd rather have her take a few drops of ethanol than actual painkillers.

I think that's why medical insurance covers it, it's dirt cheap compared to real medicine.

 

[ILoveMcChickens]

Homeopathy / Naturopathy is a bunch of garbage snake-oil bullshit. I know some people see value in it, even as a placebo, but handing out overly diluted nonsense to people and having them believe it works lends it a legitimacy. I've known people who after a couple of placebo's believe in this stuff wholesale and have started turning to it for more serious illnesses instead of actual medicine.

Where I live, in Canada, naturopaths are actually regulated by the government like any actual healthcare practitioner. A huge mistake that I wish they'd reverse. More legitimacy means that more people believe it might be real as opposed to pseudoscience nonsense.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It can 'work' in some instances due to placebo effect, but other than that it's a scam.

 

[Kinitari]

I know of multiple people who've had serious harm some to their bodies because they've eschewed modern medicine in favor of homeopathic medicine.

Don't... Don't do that. If you want to treat your sniffles with it, go nuts, spend your money any way you want, or better yet figure out how to make at home homeopathic remedies or whatever, save money.

But if you have chrons, or are trying to purify stagnant water (yes, real things people I've met and know have done) - don't use homeopathic medicine.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Homeopathy differs from other "alt med" nonsense and is even more nonsensical, as it cannot work without violating the laws of physics and chemistry. It has no active ingredients.

I thought homeopathy was any sort of "natural" remedy, what is this water stuff?

See above.

I repeat: homeopathic "medicine" has no active ingredient.

Okay so I solved 'ice cream headaches' aka 'brain freezes'. I did this inexplicably due to a light going out in my kitchen last year.

Situation: you're getting a brainfreeze:

1) Look at a 45-60 angle up
2) stick your tongue out, regular, and so it slopes downward
3) breath hard out
4) press your tongue against the roof of your mouth


GONE. Immediately without fail.

Wut? Wrong thread?

i have practiced yoga for some years now. in India they have a multitude of religious traditions and many sciences of the mind and body. simply being still breathing and observing the natural state of your being can be a trans-formative (even out of body) experience. observing the observer. doctor heal thyself. i have not tried much homeopathic products (the vials and bottles are all too expensive for me im a bit of a cheapskate) but i know people that do sound healing and massage therapy and have patronized their businesses from time to time.

our car-and-screen-based modern life puts our bodies (especially our necks) in unnatural positions positions. it is good to stretch the neck, to get blood and oxygen flowing through muscles and vessels. it is good to breath in and out deeply and send that fresh air into the bits that have been neglected for hours while your read websites. neck and shoulder stretches are my favorite, a nice blast of oxygen, get you loosey goosey. also balancing and Warrior poses. your body is the perfect counterweight to your own body by design. obviously this yoga is a vast field and i have only begun to investigate it.

i have a skeptical view of legitimate medicine. it can do great harm and there is an epidemic of over-prescription and reliance on pills that dry us out, depriving us of that water, that oxygen. i dont think its that crazy to imagine that body heat and natural infared radioactivity of the living body is a power source of some kind. i have friends that do Reiki and tarot readings and all sorts of things. its cool. there is an alternative "occult" history (different from classical white western Latin/Greek atomism) and a lot of homeopathy is exploring that. medicine and psychology/psychiatry are relatively new fields of knowledge for humans, we are only just starting to dip into knowledge at the genetic level. less than 100 years ago we threw people into sanitariums and tried random drugs and violent shock treatments. imo the power of positive thinking is a far safer cure.

This post is so full of nonsense I don't even know where to begin, but let's just say that "i have a skeptical view of legitimate medicine." is a really fucking dumb world-view.

Be skeptical of the industry, sure. But of legitimate medicine? Urgh. Anti-science, anti-intellectual horseshit.

Legitimate medicine has saved my father's life from cancer. Not a single alt-med treatment could have done that.

Legitimate, evidence-based medicine is the only thing that works against polio, diabetes, cancer, AIDS, broken bones, etc.

But hey if you have the sniffles or a vague sense of unwellness, go drink some water and tell yourself you'll feel better, you just might. Whatever.

 

[LakeEarth]

Acupuncture is interesting. I don't think most people are aware it's just as unscientific and useless as homeopathy.

Considering someone in this thread was just singing its praises, no, not everybody.

 

[Jordan117]

My mom buys into this BS. But hey, at least there's the placebo effect, right?

Then I found out she also buys homeopathic pet medicine...

(not for anything serious, but still...)

 

[hohoXD123]

Which is again based on ignorance for facts/science plus even doctors not understanding the differences between virus and bacteria.

Happened to my friend, was diagnosed for the flu and was prescribed an antibiotic (and no, not because of secondary infection risk etc).

No, believe it or not doctors generally know antibiotics don't work for viruses. The main problem is patients insisting that they need antibiotics and doctors either giving up or patients deciding to get them somewhere else.

 

[Mupod]

Huh. I always assumed it was just a fancy word for natural remedies and never thought twice about it. I had no idea it was something so monumentally fucking stupid. I got a good laugh out of this quote:

A popular homeopathic treatment for the flu is a 200C dilution of duck liver, marketed under the name Oscillococcinum. As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10^320 more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance.

 

[Aureon]

Acupuncture is interesting. I don't think most people are aware it's just as unscientific and useless as homeopathy.

Acupunture, scientifically, is just a "Probably doesn't work"
Homeopathy is a 100% does not work.

Herbal medicines have their uses sometimes.

Here in italy, most GPs will go for mellow\placebo effects when a patient insists she wants "something" but the doctor doesn't agree it's needed. It's not a bad practice.
There's a lot of actual quacks which buy the bullshit, though. Even though they often did graduate medicine and have a license.

 

[Vazduh]

One of my friends is driving me crazy with her belief in the juice cleanses, alkaline diets, and especially homeopathy. When I calmly tried to explain her about how the latter really ~works~, she got upset, told me I had no clue and that her cousin got rid of his allergies that way. Even after I told her about the placebo effect etc, she wouldn't hear any of it, so I just skip those topics altogether. Especially her recent reiki obsession, I just can't.

But it's so easy to sell bullshit to people. My uncle went to get his atlas readjusted a couple years ago, and I can only assume it's just as bullshit as everything I mentioned above.

 

[plagiarize]

A pharmacist recommended a spray for poison ivy to me yesterday and I didn't notice until after I spent my $20 and left for upstate New York that it was homeopathic bullshit. The funniest thing?

It has menthol and tea tree oil listed in the inactive ingredients, when they are blatantly the only things that will do anything to offer relief.

I guess that's one way to try and convince people this bullshit works.

 

[FyreWulff]

A pharmacist recommended a spray for poison ivy to me yesterday and I didn't notice until after I spent my $20 and left for upstate New York that it was homeopathic bullshit. The funniest thing?

It has menthol and tea tree oil listed in the inactive ingredients, when they are blatantly the only things that will do anything to offer relief.

I guess that's one way to try and convince people this bullshit works.

Well hold up a minute, there's specific rules on what can be listed as an Active Ingredient on the label. What was the spray? menthol isn't

 

[plagiarize]

Well hold up a minute, there's specific rules on what can be listed as an Active Ingredient on the label. Active Ingredients can only be things that are biologically active. Menthol and and Tea Tree Oil aren't. I'd have to see the label on your spray

I'm sure I've seen menthol listed as an active ingredient in other treatments. Like Halls if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: Yup. Active ingredient in Halls for its cooling and numbing properties.

I forget the brand but it's a topical pump spray that is meant to offer relief for poison ivy.

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm sure I've seen menthol listed as an active ingredient in other treatments. Like Halls if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: Yup. Active ingredient in Halls for its cooling and numbing properties.

Yeah I misremembered. But still, just making sure there's not a misunderstanding of the label here.

 

[JettDash]

i have practiced yoga for some years now. in India they have a multitude of religious traditions and many sciences of the mind and body. simply being still breathing and observing the natural state of your being can be a trans-formative (even out of body) experience. observing the observer. doctor heal thyself. i have not tried much homeopathic products (the vials and bottles are all too expensive for me im a bit of a cheapskate) but i know people that do sound healing and massage therapy and have patronized their businesses from time to time.

our car-and-screen-based modern life puts our bodies (especially our necks) in unnatural positions positions. it is good to stretch the neck, to get blood and oxygen flowing through muscles and vessels. it is good to breath in and out deeply and send that fresh air into the bits that have been neglected for hours while your read websites. neck and shoulder stretches are my favorite, a nice blast of oxygen, get you loosey goosey. also balancing and Warrior poses. your body is the perfect counterweight to your own body by design. obviously this yoga is a vast field and i have only begun to investigate it.

i have a skeptical view of legitimate medicine. it can do great harm and there is an epidemic of over-prescription and reliance on pills that dry us out, depriving us of that water, that oxygen. i dont think its that crazy to imagine that body heat and natural infared radioactivity of the living body is a power source of some kind. i have friends that do Reiki and tarot readings and all sorts of things. its cool. there is an alternative "occult" history (different from classical white western Latin/Greek atomism) and a lot of homeopathy is exploring that. medicine and psychology/psychiatry are relatively new fields of knowledge for humans, we are only just starting to dip into knowledge at the genetic level. less than 100 years ago we threw people into sanitariums and tried random drugs and violent shock treatments. imo the power of positive thinking is a far safer cure.

Steve Jobs distrusted legitimate medicine too. So after he was diagnosed with cancer, instead of getting the treatment the doctors knew was the best course of action, he decided that with his zero training and experience he knew better. He convinced himself that he could cure himself of cancer with acupuncture, herbal blends, and other BS "alternative" treatments.

Big shock, no matter how much you really want "alternative" treatments to cure your cancer, they won't do shit. And so Jobs have the surgery anyway after giving the cancer time to spread. It never really went away. He did everything he could to fight it including experimental treatments and a liver transplant but his money was only able to buy him some time, not cure him. He deeply regretted not listening to the doctors in the first place and having the surgery right away.

Anyway, the point is that even a guy as smart as Steve Jobs, when his life was one the line, decided that he could trust his own intuition to use pseudoscience he read on the internet rather medical science.

You do not know more than the experts who have dedicated their lives to medicine. Random things you think of or hear are not as good a science just because they sound good to you. Hopefully you won't ever have to find this out the hard way like Steve Jobs did,

 

[DrFunk]

Lmao

 

[iapetus]

Here's my advice for homeopathy users. Run up a big bill with your practitioner. When it comes time to pay, give them a bit of paper that you once kept near a piece of paper that you once kept near a piece of paper that once came briefly into contact with a small denomination coin, and say "Keep the change"...