Support NeoGAF

[WooHooAlex]

I hadn't heard of the term until last week.

Went to a restaurant in Minnesota called Pittsburgh Blue. Very recommended, by the way.

Basically, you sear the outside of the steak on VERY high heat until its charred on the outside... and that's it. It doesn't take long - about 25-40 seconds each side.

The meat inside is damn near cold. I ABSOLUTELY will not eat it this way, but folks RAVE about it.

I live in Minnesota and I've never been there, I've always wanted to try them tho. Next time I'm over at Galleria I might have to stop in for lunch.

I'm with the rest of you, medium-rare is the way to go. When I see someone order their steak well-done, I die a little inside.

 

[iamblades]

Sounds like a good way to die.

In basically any restaurant you go into, you are more likely to get food poisoning from the vegetables than from the beef.

Chicken or pork are different or poorly sourced ground beef that has been sitting around, but most cuts of raw beef are no more dangerous than cold cuts.

 

[Stinkles]

Why even go to restaurant to have them barely touch it? Medium rare at least says they're trying.

That's got to be incredibly unhealthy, the middle of the meat would never reach a safe temperature.

great steak houses generally get the best cuts of meat too. The USDA stuff we get at Safeway is garbage. I keep eating it, but it is not great quality. Labeling can be confusing too. Animal breed versus geographical region, USDA versus USDA prime and so on. I go to a Seattle butcher chain called Bill the Butcher when we want spendy beef. Great prep and recipe advice too.

 

[Borgnine]

I mean I'd do 7 seconds a side if we're talking like a 7000 Kelvin grill.

 

[Dune1975]

I like my beef a bit rare and red, it has a really nice flavor IMO. But I can see where some could be disgusted by the fact, since some cuts can look like they were just lifted straight from the cow.

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

Question for folks you want there steak cooked past medium rare, Do you really like steak? Or just find it ok? I don't know anybody who is a steak lover that enjoys a well-cooked steak, regardless of cut.

 

[agrajag]

Beef doesn't have to reach a "safe temperature" inside. The only harmful bacteria on it (if any) would be on the outside which is seared to kill said bacteria.

And the point of getting it in a restaurant is to enjoy quality prime beef that one can't readily get at a regular grocery store or butcher, assuming you're at a nice steakhouse.



Churrasco doesn't refer to a specific cut in my experience and I have no problem eating rare at local churrascarias. With flank, the only way to ensure it's tender is to cut it across the grain. Maybe I'm just eating different steaks than you, but in my experience the only steaks that get more tender with a little bit of heat (I still wouldn't go far past rare) are marbled cuts like ribeye that need some head to get the juices going.

Churrasco is almost always skirt steak. Skirt steak is chewy by nature, that's just a given with it, but it's ok because it's so flavorful. That's just its nature.

As far as having a different experience with steaks than you, it's possible. I didn't say that heat tenderizes the meat, it certainly doesn't (unless you are braising). What it does, is it firms it up through coagulation, and takes away chewiness of the muscle fibers. Especially with tough cuts like skirt stake, which are traditionally sliced with the grain on top of that.

They break down easier as you bite through them. The fat isn't what makes a steak chewy, and most of the fat will render out by the time you cook a ribeye to rare, certainly.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

You bastards, it's like midnight and you're making me cook a steak.

Spoiler

It will be medium rare, this blue shit's gross.

Why even go to restaurant to have them barely touch it? Medium rare at least says they're trying.

That's got to be incredibly unhealthy, the middle of the meat would never reach a safe temperature.

Middle of the meat is fine, it's the outsides which come into contact with bacteria.

 

[iamblades]

I mean I'd do 7 seconds a side if we're talking like a 7000 Kelvin grill.

That's not as far off as you might think, these high end steakhouses use salamander charbroilers that get up to 1800+ degrees F.

Which is really why you go to a steakhouse instead of making one at home, there is basically no way to get the crispy charred exterior while still being nice and rare in the middle at home. Sous vide and a blowtorch is close, but the torch doesn't get hot enough. Maybe oxyacetylene?

 

[Kitsunebaby]

Churrasco is almost always skirt steak. Skirt steak is chewy by nature, that's just a given with it, but it's ok because it's so flavorful. That's just its nature.

As far as having a different experience with steaks than you, it's possible. I didn't say that heat tenderizes the meat, it certainly doesn't (unless you are braising). What it does, is it firms it up through coagulation, and takes away chewiness of the muscle fibers. Especially with tough cuts like skirt stake, which are traditionally sliced with the grain on top of that.

They break down easier as you bite through them. The fat isn't what makes a steak chewy, and most of the fat will render out by the time you cook a ribeye to rare, certainly.

Wait, you slice skirt steak with the grain? I've always sliced it against the grain on an angle (after removing the silver skin). Anyways, to each their own. I've always preferred the texture of rarer meat over more done, it just seems more tender to me.

Also where are you from that churrasco is skirt? The churrascarias around me all use various brazilian cuts. I think skirt steak is part of the fraldinha cut.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

If you're going to try bleu you may as well try Steak Tartare (raw)

I go to a Seattle butcher chain called Bill the Butcher when we want spendy beef. Great prep and recipe advice too.

@Stinkles is it steaktacular?

Spoiler

Could not resist, perfect thread.

 

[cryptic]

Copying from a biochemist, an explanation as to why eating raw or undercooked meat is not good:

One of the main problems is that the intestines of humans are way too long to handle raw meat. Raw meat is never fully digested, not even in carnivores. Ever wondered why carnivores produce quite a lot of fecal matter, even though they eat no fiber? This is why. Because it starts fermenting as soon as it enters the body, and because the fermentation process of protein creates a lot of toxins itself, the undigested meat has to be excreted as fast as possible. That's why carnivores have very short intestines. But in humans the intestines are much longer and peristalsis is a lot slower, so large amounts of toxins (including endotoxins) are absorbed.

 

[Deprive]

I have lived in Pittsburgh for most of my life and I have never heard of this. :|

Not messing with any raw or undercooked meat.

 

[Deleted member 8095]

Everyone once in a while I'll go super rare with a really nice piece of steak. Generally prefer medium rare though.

If you're going to try bleu you may as well try Steak Tartare (raw)

Well prepared steak tartare is one of the best things in the world.

 

[iamblades]

Copying from a biochemist, an explanation as to why eating raw or undercooked meat is not good:

That is pretty much nonsense though. We have plenty of evidence of humans eating raw meat and doing perfectly fine. Certain Inuit populations still to this day survive largely on raw meat, and that's not getting into all the cultures that regularly eat raw seafood from oysters on the halfshell to ceviche to sashimi.

Also all the nutjob newage people have made me hear quack alarm bells every time I hear 'toxins' in a food/diet related conversation.

 

[daffy]

If you're going to try bleu you may as well try Steak Tartare (raw)

@Stinkles is it steaktacular?

Spoiler

Could not resist, perfect thread.

This is my shit.

 

[iamblades]

This is my shit.

The texture of tartare creeps me out, its like eating baby food. I love Carpaccio though.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I think steak is fine undercooked/raw if you trust the source. It just depends on the cut then. It's ground beef you have to watch out for as that can come from the less desirable parts of the cow, parts which are more likely to contain bacteria. I also wouldn't suggest doing this with chicken. That would probably end up badly.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Well prepared steak tartare is one of the best things in the world.

This is my shit.

In Australia this is a quality steak house, Vlado's. Only place I've been willing to try tartare.

 

[cryptic]

That is pretty much nonsense though. We have plenty of evidence of humans eating raw meat and doing perfectly fine. Certain Inuit populations still to this day survive largely on raw meat, and that's not getting into all the cultures that regularly eat raw seafood from oysters on the halfshell to ceviche to sashimi.

Also all the nutjob newage people have made me hear quack alarm bells every time I hear 'toxins' in a food/diet related conversation.

With studies now:

Frying meat produces significantly less lipid peroxidation than other cooking methods. Only the PUFA-fractions are suspectible to peroxidation (therefore ruminant meat wouldn't be suspectible).

Pan-roasting produced a lower amount of oxidized cholesterol than was present in raw meat.

Cooked meat contains considerably less acrylamide than cooked carbohydrate-rich foods. The lack of lipid peroxidation in ruminant meats will reduce acrylamide production even further.

That's just a few of them concerning the production of toxic substances. Regarding the enzymes, there seems to be no evidence that they have any beneficial effects and they aren't digestive enzymes either. Regarding the protein digestibility, there is a very old study that shows no difference between the absorption of raw vs. cooked cereal and casein protein. It also states that the cooked protein produced a less favorable nitrogen balance. I don't know how conclusive this is.

Frying and cooking acclerated the hydrolization process. Fried and cooked meat was digested faster than raw meat.

http://fst.sagepub.com/content/5/6/501.abstract
http://www.ajas.info/editor/manuscript/upload/123.pdf
http://web.campbell.edu/faculty/bryan/CHEM451/Acrylamide.pdf
http://web.campbell.edu/faculty/bryan/CHEM451/Acrylamide.pdf
http://web.campbell.edu/faculty/bryan/CHEM451/Acrylamide.pdf
http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~balci/protein (15).pdf

 

[Log4Girlz]

Why even go to restaurant to have them barely touch it? Medium rare at least says they're trying.

That's got to be incredibly unhealthy, the middle of the meat would never reach a safe temperature.

Safe temperature for what? Muscle tissue from a cow doesn't really harbor anything. Ground meat is another story.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I like my steak rare but I'm not sure how I would feel about actually raw.

 

[iamblades]

With studies now:



Fried and cooked meat was digested faster than raw meat.

http://fst.sagepub.com/content/5/6/501.abstract
http://www.ajas.info/editor/manuscript/upload/123.pdf
http://web.campbell.edu/faculty/bryan/CHEM451/Acrylamide.pdf
http://web.campbell.edu/faculty/bryan/CHEM451/Acrylamide.pdf
http://web.campbell.edu/faculty/bryan/CHEM451/Acrylamide.pdf
http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~balci/protein (15).pdf
Also, just presenting a different opinion makes me a newage nutjob? I hope I never see you on these boards again.

There was never any controversy about this, obviously meat that has already been somewhat broken down will digest easier, it's the whole reason humans started cooking food. The question is whether eating raw meat is actually bad for you.

Also I never called you a newage nutjob. I merely stated that the whole 'toxin accumulation' theory is straight up newage bullshit, which is why I'm skeptical of any similar claims. The whole colon cleansing diets and enemas and everything, its nonsense, so whenever I hear about vague 'toxins', I ignore most of what follows.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I prefer mine well done with a1 and ketchup

 

[giri]

It's called bleu-rare and it's delicious.

Winner.

Though i prefer it a little more done personally.

 

[DanteFox]

People who eat raw meat = savages. This isn't the stone age people!

 

[Wads]

Call me what you want, but I prefer my steak well done.

 

[gdt]

I had no idea this kind of seditious activity was going on.

 

[daffy]

I prefer mine well done with a1 and ketchup

lmao get em boys

edit:

The texture of tartare creeps me out, its like eating baby food. I love Carpaccio though.

I've had that before! A stunning one times. but it was indeed very enjoyable. I can't resist tartare though, its like catnip.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Call me what you want, but I prefer my steak well done.

I just want to make sure we're both joking, right?

 

[Northeastmonk]

I've eaten hamburgers with a chewy pink center. I live for meat, but that was bad. I'll take my steak with lots of bloody juices all over the place, but I'll have to try it cooked on one side only. I could probably do it in a steak that's been sitting at medium room temperature all day marinated.

 

[cryptic]

There was never any controversy about this, obviously meat that has already been somewhat broken down will digest easier, it's the whole reason humans started cooking food. The question is whether eating raw meat is actually bad for you.

Endotoxins are a byproduct of all food we digest and are therefore in everyone, yet the body has a way of filtering them out before they reach a problematic state, anything that compromises digestibility can therefore lead to issues with endotoxin. So with that said, the issue isn't meat specific, but you can see in one way how eating raw meat can therefore be problematic.

Also, the Inuit stuff you referenced is near null and void to this matter as their environment and amount of fat they eat alongside is so far removed from ours and thereby raises a lot of surface questions. How have their bodies adapted first of all, as I remember reading a slight while ago that some had developed extra levels of adipose fat, suggesting perhaps other developments. Also how, if at all, does this extra fat compensate for the decreased digestibility of raw meat? If I were to down sticks of butter at a meal, would I be able to lube raw meat out like a slide? etc.

 

[weekend_warrior]

7 seconds? Why even bother at that point? You'd have to have an insanely expensive cut of beef for it to not taste like meat bubble gum after being cooked for 7 seconds. My jaw hurts just thinking about it.

 

[Aureon]

It's the only way to cook a steak, if you want to cook it by dropping it from orbit

 

[Tabris]

The bacteria just lives on the surface of the meat and unless left out for too long, it can't penetrate further. So cooking it on high heat kills all the bacteria on the outside.

The reason why hamburger meat is so dangerous is because there's essentially no outside as it has been churned out.

 

[Kyuur]

I don't like my meat cold, so it's not really for me. I like it to be as rare as can get while still being warm.

 

[Kyuur]

The bacteria just lives on the surface of the meat and unless left out for too long, it can't penetrate further. So cooking it on high heat kills all the bacteria on the outside.

The reason why hamburger meat is so dangerous is because there's essentially no outside as it has been churned out.

If you make your own hamburger meat out of steaks, can you just strip the outside and have perfectly fine rare hamburgers? Sounds delicious to me.

Edit: Woops double post.

 

[Sneaky Gato]

great steak houses generally get the best cuts of meat too. The USDA stuff we get at Safeway is garbage. I keep eating it, but it is not great quality. Labeling can be confusing too. Animal breed versus geographical region, USDA versus USDA prime and so on. I go to a Seattle butcher chain called Bill the Butcher when we want spendy beef. Great prep and recipe advice too.

Most of the beef you get in at major chains is high choice/low select. However they will usually get higher cuts including prime every few months. So don't be afraid to ask if they have any available.

 

[Shard]

I have eaten the Steak Tartar, yes.

 

[DigitalRicket]

Man, I know I'm in the super minority when I say this but I loved my steak BURNT! Crispy on the top. Well done all the way for me. If it's also a bit chewy. Then dip it in a little bit of sour cream from a baked potato.... mmmm... delicious.

 

[hipbabboom]

One of my favorite Ryan Davis lines when talking about how he liked his steaks prepared: "I just want them to walk the cow through a warm room and bring it to my table."

 

[Kitsunebaby]

If you make your own hamburger meat out of steaks, can you just strip the outside and have perfectly fine rare hamburgers? Sounds delicious to me.

Edit: Woops double post.

You know, I've had rare or medium rare burgers my entire life and never had a problem. There's always a risk of E. coli but if you trust the restaurant to source their meat well it shouldn't be a very high risk.

 

[PaulloDEC]

I wouldn't be super worried about bacteria in a decent restaurant, I just prefer cooked meat to raw.

Medium or medium well. I know, I suck, apparently.

 

[Kyuur]

You know, I've had rare or medium rare burgers my entire life and never had a problem. There's always a risk of E. coli but if you trust the restaurant to source their meat well it shouldn't be a very high risk.

Other then homemade, it's pretty much impossible to get in Canada.

I was shocked when I went to Hawaii and was asked how I would like my burger. Said rare and enjoyed the hell out of it.

 

[Yaboosh]

Most of the beef you get in at major chains is high choice/low select. However they will usually get higher cuts including prime every few months. So don't be afraid to ask if they have any available.

Costco sells Prime all the time. You can get Prime sirloin for $8 a pound. So good.

 

[soultron]

If you make your own hamburger meat out of steaks, can you just strip the outside and have perfectly fine rare hamburgers? Sounds delicious to me.

Edit: Woops double post.

The best way to make homemade patties is to get chuck steak and grind/process it yourself, yeah. At least this is what I do.

 

[Kitsunebaby]

Other then homemade, it's pretty much impossible to get in Canada.

I was shocked when I went to Hawaii and was asked how I would like my burger. Said rare and enjoyed the hell out of it.

Yeah, even in the states most chain restaurants won't do it for me, but pubs and bars are usually willing to (I guess they're not as afraid of lawsuits). It just makes a burger so much better.

 

[Lazyslob]

Well that sounds kind of gross, but I'd be down to try anything once. BRING IT ON.

 

[keuja]

No way. People who eat steaks above medium rare should be disallowed from ever ordering steak again,

Not necessarily. I love all kind of raw meat, but I like to order and cook my steak medium: more delicious crust on the meat and the fat.
I'm hungry now.

 

[terrisus]

The only way that I'll touch steak is if it's literally burnt to a crisp. There better not be anything even remotely resembling redness inside of it, and the more blackened it is the better.