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Anyone else feel that Joycon focus was a mistake
- Thread starter TunaLover
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OrbitalBeard
Member
My man.
God, ARMS looks so good. It's the reason I'm buying a Switch at launch instead of just buying Zelda on Wii U and waiting a bit .
Nope, not after the live demo of Treehouse.
Super cool styff, would love playing Skyrim them.
UnemployedVillain
Member
No, actually I feel like you don't get the point since you have it so backwards. They're priced so high because of all the hardware in them. Not the other way around, which is a ridiculous idea
megarockexe
Member
It's just that, why can't there be real innovation in controller input anymore? The market leaders and majority of gamers have firmly said only traditional input methods are desired, and it's why basically the same controller has been in use for 15-or-so years. And PC has been the same longer.
It's like there's no room to experiment anymore without the backlash.
It's like there's no room to experiment anymore without the backlash.
Aztechnology
Member
Without VR level motion controls, there's no point. It's an archaic approach and Nintendo decided to double down on the Wii type experience which no longer holds up.
decoyplatypus
Member
It reminds me of Wii U's tablet. I don't know that the Joycon controllers are terribly expensive components, but they add something to the total system price. And they are as clearly targeted toward the casual end of the market as the Wii U tablet was. Sure, there are core gamers like me who put a premium on local multiplayer (as I did with offscreen play) and don't mind simpler games designed around limited controllers.* But by and large this is about a different audience. Now, it is perfectly reasonable for Nintendo to try to market the Switch as a cool party game device. But those non-core twentysomethings are not going to pay $300 for a taboo/cards-against-humanity replacement. So it seems like once again Nintendo is giving up a lot (in price) for a feature that is unlikely to pay off.
*FWIW, the Wii U was perfect for me, and the Switch probably will be too. It's just that what appeals to me has not proven to be broadly popular.
*FWIW, the Wii U was perfect for me, and the Switch probably will be too. It's just that what appeals to me has not proven to be broadly popular.
Flame Lord
Member
Seems that way. I feel like people like me have been done with all that motion shit for years, and they people they're trying to pull in with it have a device that, to them, does the same thing in their closet. Also, HD rumble seems cool, but how many devs are actually going to go through the effort of making every moment of rumbling in a game unique? Just feels like they threw a bunch of shit in it people barely want, and now the thing's price has inflated because of it.
TimeEffect
Member
Where is the price hike coming from? Do we need IR or motion or whatever?
Is it not possible to have made the machine backwards compatible with a Wiimote for Wii BC?
Is it not possible to have made the machine backwards compatible with a Wiimote for Wii BC?
Aztechnology
Member
I honestly wonder if it's the engineers or the higher up telling the engineers they need to create that gimmick. Most engineers I know are about creating very efficient and would prefer to focus on the devices hardware.
Oh it's possible, they already have emulators out there. It's the issue of Nintendo wanting to squeeze as much cash out of old games as possible. Plus now they can offer them as incentives for their sub service.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Not at all.
The focus on arms was the motion movement, and was the only way to play the demo.
From a marketing perspective? Maybe.
There sure seems to be a lot of shrieking and wailing going on around here, but it seems to be aimed in literally every direction. I haven't seen one aspect of the Switch or the games that hasn't been criticised for not being something else.
From a design perspective? Not a chance.
I was pretty ambivalent about the Switch itself, beyond it being a machine I'd play Nintendo games on. Now I'm actually looking forward to getting my hands on it and playing around with the tech, not just thinking about playing Zelda.
There sure seems to be a lot of shrieking and wailing going on around here, but it seems to be aimed in literally every direction. I haven't seen one aspect of the Switch or the games that hasn't been criticised for not being something else.
From a design perspective? Not a chance.
I was pretty ambivalent about the Switch itself, beyond it being a machine I'd play Nintendo games on. Now I'm actually looking forward to getting my hands on it and playing around with the tech, not just thinking about playing Zelda.
forknknife
Banned
In my opinion yes. The Wii style gameplay was great at the time and as a stepping stone towards high fidelity motion controls that we find today essential for VR, for example. But waggle games today are just a niche concept and it seems weird to base your console around it again. OK, with the addition of the HD rumble but... then you don't even make it part of the package??? It just makes no sense.
Imo, they should have kept the motion control joycons only optional for those interested in Wii virtual console. And then Nintendo couldve supported them with additional games like 1, 2, switch. But forcing all that functionality at the expense of keeping the console affordable for the mass market was a huge mistake. Now they'll be forced to lower the prices and be at risk of selling at a loss when it couldve been totally avoided.
Imo, they should have kept the motion control joycons only optional for those interested in Wii virtual console. And then Nintendo couldve supported them with additional games like 1, 2, switch. But forcing all that functionality at the expense of keeping the console affordable for the mass market was a huge mistake. Now they'll be forced to lower the prices and be at risk of selling at a loss when it couldve been totally avoided.
Chuck Norris
Banned
No. From my understanding the screen is just that, a screen. It doesn't really offer unique gameplay functionality
If that's the case I can see Nintendo releasing a "Switch S" in about a year that is just joycon and a console unit for a cheaper price
Alternately they can release the screen as a stand alone too for cheaper
The configurations of will allow for some interesting price competitiveness of Nintendo are smart about it
If that's the case I can see Nintendo releasing a "Switch S" in about a year that is just joycon and a console unit for a cheaper price
Alternately they can release the screen as a stand alone too for cheaper
The configurations of will allow for some interesting price competitiveness of Nintendo are smart about it
No, because if Nintendo is touting it as a home console they need to invoke memories of the Wii.
I think reminding folks of the Wii is the best thing for them.
And its interesting ppl bringing up VR when its also using motion controls. The Switch might have arrived just in time because of that.
I think reminding folks of the Wii is the best thing for them.
And its interesting ppl bringing up VR when its also using motion controls. The Switch might have arrived just in time because of that.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
But do people still care about motion controls?
And if they do, will this not be badly over shadowed by motion control in VR once prices drop there?
Just doesn't seem worth driving the cost of the system up when it would probably sell better to casuals, families and core gamers buying it to complement whatever they already game on if it were as cheap as possible.
Barry Burton
Member
Yeah, I pretty much zoned out during much of the motion talk. There's nothing Nintendo needs to sell me on other than their first-party games, and I wish they stopped bothering with gimmicks all the time.
The presentation should have been entirely about how all of their development teams are supporting this one platform now, and every game can be played at home or on the go. That's it. It had the same stink of their E3 2012 press conference. They aren't going to get the Wii audience back.
The presentation should have been entirely about how all of their development teams are supporting this one platform now, and every game can be played at home or on the go. That's it. It had the same stink of their E3 2012 press conference. They aren't going to get the Wii audience back.
I think the technology of it is great, but I believe the presentation would have been better off focusing on the fact that it's home-to-portable.
Their October movie was so great as it made all the sense in the world.
A better presentation of technology ala Apple's special whatever chip, like they did on their earphones (as if there's something special about a their bluetooth chip) would have been better. Something like going inside how there's a special processor inside each joy-con called "NS1.2" that can produce HD rumble, can calculate "rock, paper scissors" from a specially designed Infra-red camera, and so on. That would have made it much more techy and Appley and maybe, maybe, worth the price tag.
It's all marketing. In October we would all have paid $299 for this.
Their October movie was so great as it made all the sense in the world.
A better presentation of technology ala Apple's special whatever chip, like they did on their earphones (as if there's something special about a their bluetooth chip) would have been better. Something like going inside how there's a special processor inside each joy-con called "NS1.2" that can produce HD rumble, can calculate "rock, paper scissors" from a specially designed Infra-red camera, and so on. That would have made it much more techy and Appley and maybe, maybe, worth the price tag.
It's all marketing. In October we would all have paid $299 for this.
vpance
Member
Always trying to catch lighting in a bottle.
Those Wii high feelings are permanently burnt into their minds, so they keep trying to pull it off again and again like an addicted gambler.
I agree, it is a great show case of technology for possible use in VR. But as it is, Nintendo should have focused on the hybrid gimmick instead, work more closely with nvidia use their r and d budget for improvements on battery life or power.
Yep. They should have touched on it and moved on to the software. Even though motion controls aren't really gimmicky anymore, there are folks who don't like it under any circumstance, and will make a shit ton of noise about how they're crap whether or not they've actually tried it. The software is what people are worried about more than anything else and Nintendo is proving out of touch by focusing so much time on something that literally wont be understood until they've had the chance to try it. Its like trying to sell VR or 3d to someone who's never tried it. The experience itself has to be what sells those things.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
They seem a bit gimmicky, but overall I think will be more useful than the dual screen idea was on the Wii U. There could be some good stuff arrive down the road.
And it's nice that Nintendo are doing things a bit different as always. I don't want another 'HD Twin'.
I would guess that most big games will be playable with the regular controller anyway. So it's not like the Switch will be wall to wall waggle lol.
And it's nice that Nintendo are doing things a bit different as always. I don't want another 'HD Twin'.
I would guess that most big games will be playable with the regular controller anyway. So it's not like the Switch will be wall to wall waggle lol.
Version 3.0
Member
It's an absolute waste to have all that motion control / sensor tech in there. Just like the dual screen stuff on the Wii U negated a feature that many found more compelling (off-TV play), this motion control stuff negates the "portable" mode of the Switch. Motion controls will only work in TV or "tabletop" mode.
They're letting the gimmicks get in the way of actual, useful functionality. And why? To chase after a casual audience that's long gone, and not coming back.
They're letting the gimmicks get in the way of actual, useful functionality. And why? To chase after a casual audience that's long gone, and not coming back.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Nope. Wii Remote 2.0 let's goooooooo!!! I just hope it's as comfortable as the Wii Remote was.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
That I disagree with as it's a hybrid system with multiple use configurations so not every game needs to be playable in every configuration.
Do you have a link to information supporting your claim?
orthodoxy1095
Banned
They look like a massive waste of R&D money that no one outside of Nintendo and a few little enterprising indie devs will ever take advantage of.
Plus they're so packed with wasteful tech that they have a sticker shock problem as well. So yeah, they're a mistake.
Plus they're so packed with wasteful tech that they have a sticker shock problem as well. So yeah, they're a mistake.
Milly Osworth
Member
Yeah for sure. The message was very clear with the trailer last year. Now they showed a table full of accessories and waggling 😑
kunonabi
Member
The joycons are what are selling me on the switch so I can't personally say that they were a mistake.
They absolutely should have shown more games though. Putting suda and nagoshi up there without actual projects was a much worse idea even if I'm interested in what they're planning.
They absolutely should have shown more games though. Putting suda and nagoshi up there without actual projects was a much worse idea even if I'm interested in what they're planning.
Count of Monte Cristo
Member
I do find the concept of a half portable concept very favorable. I love the ability to take it anywhere and dock it up for more horsepower.
However, Nintendo should have cut the gimmick BS and made the console very third party friendly. They should have focused on power and portablility. 1080p 60fps on the go, while making it very easy for publishers to port to their platform. On top of that, they should also turn it into the ultimate Virutal console from day 1. Imagine playing game cube and wii titles at launch. This would hide any launch window droughts and drown the customer in content while the main AAA publishers ported to the console.
A walking portable madden/battlefield/overwatch/witcher machine with Mario and Zelda to boot.
Fine keep it at 720p for portable mode, just remove damn gimmicks.
Fuck it, one can dream can't he?
However, Nintendo should have cut the gimmick BS and made the console very third party friendly. They should have focused on power and portablility. 1080p 60fps on the go, while making it very easy for publishers to port to their platform. On top of that, they should also turn it into the ultimate Virutal console from day 1. Imagine playing game cube and wii titles at launch. This would hide any launch window droughts and drown the customer in content while the main AAA publishers ported to the console.
A walking portable madden/battlefield/overwatch/witcher machine with Mario and Zelda to boot.
Fine keep it at 720p for portable mode, just remove damn gimmicks.
Fuck it, one can dream can't he?
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Yeap, it's the Wii-U sky issue all over. Now the good thing is that Nintendo can produce revised cheaper controls, omit the dock and probably release $200 handheld version next year in a repeat of 3DS resurgence. So not all is lost.
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