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Anyone else feel they've outgrown linear experiences?

Western retail development is hitting the same wall Japanese development did a decade ago - no one can really afford to go much bigger and flashier, and most common themes have already been handled very well. It's only natural that the people who grew up with Halo and Gears will start to fall off, just like the people who were hooked by RE and FF7 did then.

Just like that transition, most of the buzz and vitality and blue ocean->gamer conversion is now in newly-made-accessible (though this time usually by an F2P model, not by moving from a $1000 box to a $300 box) gameplay-centric PC-derived titles.

CastorTroy said:
Wow, OP.

Saying I've "out-grown" anything other than games rated EC comes off as incredibly pretentious and the height of hubris.
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If we want to avoid the idea of outgrowing, perhaps we should have other popular hooks for game narratives than "bildungsroman" and "play soldier".
 
no. i feel like i've grown into them. i don't want to spend all day fucking around, i have stuff to do. so i like focused design. playing through a carefully constructed level like in braid or ico or mario 3d world, you can extend that value to include more variety and openness like zelda, deus ex, dark souls, metroid, mgs3 - but ultimately they're all tightly built to create a certain experience. games like watch_dogs just waste my time, they're no better than candy crush imo, content content content, all mindless. i don't think that's always the case for non-linear games, i recognize that day-z can do stuff that no designer can set out and its fascinating, i just never care enough to uncover it among lots of tedium. i'm not that kind of player. the only game i can do it for is animal crossing, which i inexplicably love.
 
Linear games tend to have better focus and therefore better challenges to overcome. Open world games always end up boring me.
 
Nope. In fact, I'd say I've outgrown open world games because a lot of times open world's feel token and unnecessary, as do a lot of games that highlight the choices you can make, which are often completely arbitrary outside of a few. I love plenty of nonlinear games, I'm not saying I don't, but the idea of their nonlinearity doesn't automatically default them to a higher standing over linear games in my mind.

Also don't get using Dark Souls as an example since the open world is basically linear levels strung together, sometimes in a way that lets you do them in a different order. And the choice is almost completely limited to your armor and weapons, something I can also do in Payday 2, and I wouldn't call that an open ended game with a vast amount of choices to be made.
 
I also think OP's post doesn't hugely match how people are interpreting the title - the complaint is about Press (A) to Cutscene experiences, and accepts failure conditions or alternate tactics as types of branch, doesn't it?
 
CastorTroy said:
Wow, OP.

Saying I've "out-grown" anything other than games rated EC comes off as incredibly pretentious and the height of hubris.
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I really don't think the OP intended to offend. Saying you "outgrown" something is a common thing to say to indicate you have lost interest as time has passed. For that person, they have outgrown them in a sense, but really it just means their taste has changed. It does across as borderline insulting so I wouldn't have chosen those words myself, because people were offended.

For me it's similar to the way people in this thread are saying things like " no I have a job and family I don't have time for open-world games. I could interpret them as saying I don't have a life because I do, but I choose not to let it bother me. They just mean for them.
 
Plenty of people have refuted the general OP, but I still have no idea when the hell "story" became some distinguishing characteristic between linear and open. One of things I associate most with the average modern open-world game is the "cutscene-mission-cutscene" structure with those cutscenes being as bludgeoning as possible, and the missions making Call of Duty compaigns look like the height of player agency.
 
I'm actually sort of getting tired of today's samey feeling open world formulas, my ideal games are ones that combine the best of both worlds, like bio shock, tomb raider 2013, and Arkham asylum. The environments are open to an extent to allow for expiration but not so huge that it requires filler content to feel complete.
 
Not at all. If anything I prefer them. With limited time I don't have a lot of patience for wandering around figuring out where to go next or doing menial tasks in an open world.
 
rjinaz said:
Guess that makes me a child at heart. But I'm cool with that. I really just like exploring. Heading over that vista to see what lies ahead of me. Wonder if I can go there? Wonder what is in there? It's why Bethesda rpgs grab me, as do games like Xenoblade X. I can totally understand why people get bored with it, I just don't.
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I have studied this extensivly for years and I have come to the conslusion that it's the fact that you're using your imagination, where others are simply adding up the mechanics and seeing how they work on a nuts and bolts level. As we get older and understand more about the games we play, it seems we are more susceptible to suspending our immersion, reducing the game to stark mechanics, and thus becoming bored in open world games

It's why to some people open-world games are paint-your-own-adventure snoozefests and to others they're like sex
 
It's sort of a catch-22.

A linear game has the capability to be more focused, nuanced, provide a better narrative, develop characters along a fixed arc, etc. Then when a player feels immersed or falls in love with the game, the desire it to be able to "explore" more of that world and let it wash over you in ways of your own choosing.

At that point, it starts looking like a typical open world game. Without true AI, the ironic thing is that the world is usually open, empty and there is almost nothing "unique" to do except collect things or trigger preexisting conditions (which are linear sub-units) that you feel like you spontaneously experienced.

I'd much rather a single-player, linear experience over an open world one. I think that open world games should be the exception, not the rule. I would expect only the best developers would be able to develop a great open world game (and only a few at that).
 
I don't think i've outgrown it but linear games make me feel like i have to play a big chunk of it on one go. Quitting the game after only an hour feels... offputting in a way. (it ruins the experience for me)
This, combined with the fact that i don't have enough free time, have made me appreciate the nature of playing one-two missions and fooling around that open-world games have, a little more for the time being.

When i sort out my schedule and can actually dedicate a few hours more, then i can cherish such kind of games in a better way.
 
GreatestHits said:
I have studied this extensivly for years and I have come to the conslusion that it's the fact that you're using your imagination, where others are simply adding up the mechanics and seeing how they work on a nuts and bolts level. As we get older and understand more about the games we play, it seems we are more susceptible to suspending our immersion, reducing the game to stark mechanics, and thus becoming bored in open world games

It's why to some people open-world games are paint-your-own-adventure snoozefests and to others they're like sex
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Yeah, I mean I feel like I can get really lost in an open-world game, in the same way I can get lost in a really good book. I let my imagination run wild. For me, I am the Dragonborn (skyrim) or whichever character I am controlling in whatever open-world rpg.
 
I think I've more outgrown dime a dozen open world games than linear ones. I used to love the concept of open world, now the moment I hear that a game has it, my hype deflates.
 
I have little interest for linear games. That doesn't mean I only play open world games.

I think some people responding hostile to the OP are just reacting emotionally because he doesn't like the things you like, at least anymore. And that feels like he has "outgrown" them. Don't get caught up on the meaning behind words not necessarily intended imo.
 
I'm the opposite. I don't like open world games. GTA and assassins creed for example. I generally don't finish them. Might be because I don't have as much time to play anymore so 20-40 hour games just don't do it for me
 
OP is part of an increasing tread of ppl who believe the nes/snes generation seems to be the pinnacle of gaming for some reason. I like my mgs my uncharteds my linear games. Yes you can feel you've outgrown them similar to how i dont understand the appeal of minecraft. But I get there is a new generation of gamers who like something i didnt grow up with. And im open to newer ideas and constructs of gaming.
 
Eh, IMO there is nothing inherently more "sophisticated" about choice. It's a development tactic that can be done well or badly, just like any other. Many "open" games seem to force an existential crisis: so many silly, unrewarding things to do, so little time. Many of us get enough of that kind of rat wheel in real life already.

A gamer can feel "condemned to be free" just as easily as he or she can feel like, as the OP says, a "pawn."

"How" is often more important than "what" for me.
 
Absolutely. I can't get into Uncharted or Last of Us because of this. I'm just not interested in having a story told to me that directly. Replay value is also really important to me, and I don't feel like games presented in this style will provide what I'm looking for in that aspect. I'm not particularly a movie guy, either, so maybe that's part of it.

I like emergent story-telling and open gameplay.
 
No. It's all about the experience for me, and watching somebody else going through it is certainly not the same, at least for me.
As per saying that one can "outgrow" linear experiences, it'd be like saying you've outgrown reading heroic fantasy books because you tried LARPing.
 
I like linearity, so no. I can't think of any genre where I would prefer a open experience over a focused one. By the way, what I find weird is that linearity doesn't equal story-focused game like some are assuming here. I mean, Donkey Kong Country games are 100% linear and they have almost zero story and they are fine this way (I don't think the series would be any better if you could choose the order you tackle most levels).
 
Sushi Nao said:
Absolutely. I can't get into Uncharted or Last of Us because of this. I'm just not interested in having a story told to me that directly. Replay value is also really important to me, and I don't feel like games presented in this style will provide what I'm looking for in that aspect. I'm not particularly a movie guy, either, so maybe that's part of it.

I like emergent story-telling and open gameplay.
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define this. most open world games have no story almost. if youre talking about branching story lines in rpgs its pretty obvious which way the story is going anyway .. apart from games like witcher which hides the results of your interactions (i like this btw) .... define emergent story telling... its almost as if you expect a game to be like real life.
 
DrROBschiz said:
the enjoyment of linear or open world games is not tied to someones maturity or age


Outgrow is the wrong term for the topic title
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Exactly. It's all personal preference honestly. I prefer more open world experiences but I can enjoy a good linear game too.
 
Ishan said:
define this. most open world games have no story almost. if youre talking about branching story lines in rpgs its pretty obvious which way the story is going anyway .. apart from games like witcher which hides the results of your interactions (i like this btw) .... define emergent story telling... its almost as if you expect a game to be like real life.
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What open world games don't have story? I'm curious as to why you would say something like this which is clearly not true, even if you're just exaggerating.
 
I'm outgrowing poorly made linear games and growing into well made ones.

For example, I used to play CoD campaigns a lot when I had nothing to do and found them fun. Now I play games like Wolfenstein: The New Order for my singleplayer fix.
 
Yes, I absolutely cannot stand linear/highly scripted games whatsoever. It always feels like a chore to play, i.e. you finish one objective, and the game tells you what to do the next. Rinse and repeat.

In games that offer sandbox experience, I actually do stuff that I enjoy, as opposed to being forced to do something just because the game asks you to.
 
I actually hate most open world games, all that I have played have been padded with filler shit and that's probably why this generation has had a very slow start for me, with most games going open world for some reason. With open world games I enjoy such as inFamous and GTA, it's a case of blasting through the main story and ignoring all the side quests because I can't be bothered with the crap that's thrown in just for the sake of adding in more hours.

I don't play many games, probably 1 every couple months or so unless I ain't got fuck all else to do so would rather spend the little time I have playing a game which can be completed in 10 or so hours and not feel I've missed out on a lot. The OP though, what rubbish you talk about you having "outgrown linear" games, this ain't teletubbies mate when a 30 year old watching that by himself is probably a little messed up.
 
Mobius and pet octopus said:
What open world games don't have story? I'm curious as to why you would say something like this which is clearly not true, even if you're just exaggerating.
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which open world game has a great narrative? its all cookie cutter. and even things like tlou which are cookie cutter leverage the linearity to put some "twist" on it which makes it better. the point of linearity is to tell a particular narrative which open world simply does not do. some people like the idea of exploring a world and learning everything about it some dont. in my opinion just because you like "exploration" and "loving the feel" of a world doesnt mean you cant like a linear narrative. If you do youre being as close minded as someone making the argument games are just an escape mechanism.

EDIT : because quite frankly if we pull it that far novels movies etc blah blah and at the end of it life is worth way more narrative importance
 
It depends on the game, not the genre. Metroid Prime is non-linear but there's a lot of attention to detail in every room and lots of secrets that are meaningful. Assassins Creed is non-linear too, but there's so much stuff to collect it makes the whole loose sense and importance. Portal is linear but you can't get the same experience from watching than playing. Resident Evil 6 is linear and it's better to just watch a video.

So yeah, it depends completely on the game.
 
I have but like last gen. I think Bioshock Infinite was my last linear experience where I was like, "Yep, this is the same shit again."

Most recently I tried with The Last of Us Remastered and with the exception of a few set pieces, I felt like it was a game I had played already tons of times over the PS2/PS3 era just slightly more complex and evolved.

These games are simply too big for their own good. Too much is at stake: money; the fate of the entire company most of the time. Everyone's sticking to what's safe, advancing one little thing here or one little thing there. But it always feels like familiar ground to me.

But I've been around for a while. Younger gamers may feel it's all new and fresh. Nothing wrong with those kinds of games. Just not for me anymore.
 
elelunicy said:
Yes, I absolutely cannot stand linear/highly scripted games whatsoever. It always feels like a chore to play, i.e. you finish one objective, and the game tells you what to do the next. Rinse and repeat.

In games that offer sandbox experience, I actually do stuff that I enjoy, as opposed to being forced to do something just because the game asks you to.
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you will have to do shitty main missions eventually though (to unlock more stuff to do)
 
I feel the opposite. That I have 'outgrown' to use your own words, open world games. A linear game tends to have a story to tell, where as open world games, while having a narrative, is much more disjointed and hard to follow. Throw in 101 pointless activities that don't really do anything, and I find myself wanting a more streamlined game, than one that lets me walk freely but doesn't really contain any substance to it.

I would exclude GTAV from that though, as it certainly has substance to it. But generally speaking I prefer to go for a ride, rather than sit in a car and wonder where I should be going.
 
Ishan said:
define this. most open world games have no story almost. if youre talking about branching story lines in rpgs its pretty obvious which way the story is going anyway .. apart from games like witcher which hides the results of your interactions (i like this btw) .... define emergent story telling... its almost as if you expect a game to be like real life.
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Like Dark Souls. I get a few pieces of lore on the periphery, but in order to see the world, its events and its history in its entirety, I have to use my imagination and make leaps of logic.

Other games that do this well are Oblivion and Fallout. There's a forensic aspect to the examination of object placement in some dungeons; you can figure out, ok, here's where this guy tried to run and was shot in the back, but then this other guy was leaned up against a wall and executed. Simply by examining the positions of some skeletons, you can piece together a narrative of what happened in the space before you got there.
 
Ishan said:
which open world game has a great narrative?
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You're the one who claimed most open world games don't have story, and now you're saying they don't have great narrative. These two concepts of story and narrative are not necessarily referring to the same thing. Plus you went from no story to no great narrative? If you want me to list the games I think have story, I could easily. Fallout New Vegas. Red Dead Redemption. Fallout 3. And I would even say they have great stories.

Please try to stay consistent with what you're saying. Open world games do have story. Whether you find them great or not is up to each person individually.

The rest of your post had literally nothing to do with what I asked of your or posted about. It also isn't escaping my notice that you failed to post a single open world game that doesn't have story, despite claiming that most open world games lack story (when in reality open world games often have many stories).
 
I'm taking a break from ubisoft games right now because they pretty much killed open worlds for me, the design structure of every open world game they do just makes them feel so vapid, like your doing the same thing on a green screen set a bunch of times with the only differentiating factor being back grounds. Also watchdogs and ac unity (even though unity had an amazing attention to detail) just felt very vapid to me.
 
I'm getting tired of open world games. I feel like it's a cheap way to pad games and get that "It's a 100+ hr game" reaction from fans when only 20-30 hours are really the only fun part of the game. For example, Dragon Age: inquisition is guilty of this. So much padding and unnecessary grinding that i was ready to be done with the game at around 30 hrs.
 
Nope, nothing wrong with them. I don't need everything to be open world. I'm quite happy for a game to have linear progression so long as its done well, and designed properly. There's room for games like Bayonetta 2 in my game collection as much as there is room for games like The Witcher 3.
 
I feel like I've outgrown traditional open world games. I've out grown out of the illusion of freedom and choice. I've realized what I want out of games and gone after those. Still love me some souls games
 
Kama_1082 said:
I'm getting tired of open world games. I feel like it's a cheap way to pad games and get that "It's a 100+ hr game" reaction from fans when only 20-30 hours are really the only fun part of the game. For example, Dragon Age: inquisition is guilty of this. So much padding and unnecessary grinding that i was ready to be done with the game at around 30 hrs.
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Yeah, DA:I is a terrible form of "open world" gameplay. I'm about 12 hours in and I haven't ever felt like I've had a lot of options or agency, maybe that opens up more in the future. And certainly nothing emergent has happened.
 
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