Checkers is an underrated game.
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anyone else not interested in going forward if Wii U dominates?
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Checkers is an underrated game.
Wyndstryker
Member
How about Chinese Checkers?
As a broader point, I do think it's likely we're currently looking at a significant shift in industry behavior, and I believe that these changes are, and will continue to cause, a culture shock among "hardcore" gamers.
To be specific, it's obvious to me that "hardcore" gamers both expect and are accustomed to huge companies essentially throwing money at them to win their love. For nearly 15 years, big companies like Sony and Microsoft have on frequent occasion lost billions of dollars to woo their favor; even the PS2 lost a billion in its early days to accomplish this feat. In the past, this choice was made because the companies believed that "hardcore" gamers were the path to a convergence device future.
Well, those times are drying up. Sony is out of money, Nintendo has long since dropped out of the arms race for the high end tech consumer, and it looks like Apple and Google ("non gaming" companies) are running off with the convergence device prize. I think we're starting to see a shift away from an industry that basically threw money at "hardcore" gamers and towards a rational industry where consumers are treated normally.
"Normal" would mean seemingly crazy things -- like products which cost 300 dollars to make would actually be sold for 300 dollars, and not sold at a significant loss. It means very few games will be made at a loss just because the industry is booming and they'll figure out how to balance the booksheets later once the engine is streamlined. These are normal economic conditions that virtually all other industries deal with, but I suspect it will feel like a bucket of cold water to "hardcore" gamers who are accustomed to being treated like kings.
To be specific, it's obvious to me that "hardcore" gamers both expect and are accustomed to huge companies essentially throwing money at them to win their love. For nearly 15 years, big companies like Sony and Microsoft have on frequent occasion lost billions of dollars to woo their favor; even the PS2 lost a billion in its early days to accomplish this feat. In the past, this choice was made because the companies believed that "hardcore" gamers were the path to a convergence device future.
Well, those times are drying up. Sony is out of money, Nintendo has long since dropped out of the arms race for the high end tech consumer, and it looks like Apple and Google ("non gaming" companies) are running off with the convergence device prize. I think we're starting to see a shift away from an industry that basically threw money at "hardcore" gamers and towards a rational industry where consumers are treated normally.
"Normal" would mean seemingly crazy things -- like products which cost 300 dollars to make would actually be sold for 300 dollars, and not sold at a significant loss. It means very few games will be made at a loss just because the industry is booming and they'll figure out how to balance the booksheets later once the engine is streamlined. These are normal economic conditions that virtually all other industries deal with, but I suspect it will feel like a bucket of cold water to "hardcore" gamers who are accustomed to being treated like kings.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
Honestly, I can't tell if I'm excited or scared for what'll happen when the next xbox/ps4 is announced.
E3 2013 is going to be GLORIOUS!
I agree with your post almost entirely, but made one very small correction.
edit - I also think there's probably one more attempt at the old model in the industry before it moves on entirely.
I haven't played the game enough to have an opinion on it.
I don't know. Vita is a handheld? Maybe he has different standards for consoles. I'd imagine if the next round of consoles were only as powerful as Vita he'd be pissed.
Nightstick11
Banned
In a way, hasn't this already happened? I would take the very existence of this thread (and other threads like this over the past few days) as prima facie evidence that this culture shock has been ongoing.
what are those blocky figures even supposed to be, how am I supposed to have fun with that
walking fiend
Member
I believe it is not only for hardcore gamers, but for traditional gamers in general.
Even low budget Nintendo games are moving to iOS, or PC adventure games being on iOS, while developers doing kickstarters and putting their games on Steam.
What I see, is basically developers gaining some leverage compared to bigger publishers, and publishers gaining leverage compared to platform holders. Though I find it interesting to see how the app market on both android and iOS will end up in midterm/longterm.
I strongly agree with both your points. I just felt my post was already long enough without complicating it further, but I had actually edited in both of these points in some form before deciding to keep them out for simplicity.
Good post. Ubisoft AC3 team said they were among the last dinosaurs, Michael Ancel said he could never do a BG&E with a team as large as before, etc. That's an unfortunate trend.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
The games you are talking about are using game engines from this gen. How many third parties do you honestly think will base their next gen engines on the WiiU? You think EA is going to use the system as the lead system for the next Madden? Also ask yourself when was the last time Nintendo had full third party support for their home systems.
sonikokaruto
Banned
This is in reference to some stupid ass thread about the GameCube, you can search it up.
Ghagitty or ghagidy was there too
Ghagitty or ghagidy was there too
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
meh
Wii dominated this gen and it didn't affect me negatively. Watch, WiiU is going to be the same story as it's predecessor.
At the end of the day though, the PS4/720 will have the better gaming content much like their predecessors. That's all that matters.
Wii dominated this gen and it didn't affect me negatively. Watch, WiiU is going to be the same story as it's predecessor.
At the end of the day though, the PS4/720 will have the better gaming content much like their predecessors. That's all that matters.
Dion Blaster
Member
This thread makes me want to take my laser car and drive it off of a laser cliff.
Crash Station
Member
How do you know? What will you do if WiiU gets a majority of the good games?
Go ahead, such threads won't be missed. Sorry to say that, but what kind of whiny reaction is that? Even if Wii U dominates, it doesn't mean PS4720 won't get good games. Wii dominated this gen, but PS360 got a ton of very good games nervertheless, so why almost skipping half a generation next gen? I just don't get ur logic...
Also, If Wii U dominates [by selling better than the PS4720], than probably because of a very large amount of great games - just like the PS2 did back in the days -, or how else would it dominate? I won't be the most powerful console for sure, so that will not be in it's advantage.
The Wii U and all its imput methods (motion -, pointer -, traditional -, touchscreen controls) will offer a great deal of diverse gaming experiences (I hope), and with its not too powerful, but still good enough and probably reasonably well to develop for hardware, that won't further increase development cost, it'll even be a very attractive platform for all kinds of devs, who aren't able to compete with AAA budgets anymore.
But who am I talking to? If graphics are the most important thing to you, just go and buy a PC and enjoy it.
I thought I was the only one who remembered that!
OldJadedGamer
Banned
The last time Nintendo released a home system that got the majority of good games the year was 1990.
I think Sony especially will continue down the self-destructive path they've been on. I'm not sure if WiiU is a sign of a shifting trend since Nintendo, even when they competed in the power race, was all about the profits.
Criminal Upper
Banned
WOW.
What an amazing thread that's totally based in reason.
What an amazing thread that's totally based in reason.
fixed
Even though I think the N64 had the better games overall than the PlayStation. The PS just had more of them.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Forgot to add that, will edit it in. He did say "majority".
Nightstick11
Banned
I hope they don't. I think the industry needs a strong Sony.
(Credit goes to kage from the old gafman thread)
I'm just popping in to say how awesome that comic is.
So awesome
Crash Station
Member
If people assume that there are/were millions of people, that didn't buy any games at all or maybe NSMB and nothing else - then this would mean that the attach rate of the rest would have been way higher than for any of the other consoles.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
Not really, these same dudes don't have a PC. They're console warriors. They hate company x because of their loyalty to company y.
I've owned all 3 consoles this gen, but will never buy another Microsoft console. After running through 5 360's, they've lost me as a customer forever.
timetokill
Banned
And what's funny is, as we saw in the OP, this trend will somehow be blamed on Nintendo, when really it was just Nintendo identifying the trend early.
OP's question is valid, even though the prospect is highly unlikely. 'Get a PC'? The graphics have stagnated on PC-side and resemble the ones we had back in 2007. Considering most games are HD-ports, we can attest that at this point in time, console gaming dictates much of the direction PC games go graphically.
I agree with you to a certain extent. While certainly true that games themselves make much of the entertainment and graphics play second fiddle to gameplay, writing and such, I personally value constant evolution highly as it keeps me 'interested in going forward'. In this regard, I was personally disappointed with the WiiU's premise in addition to it's technical limitations as I find it to improve on Wii's rather than PS3/360's weaknesses and to some extent resemble our current generation. Why so? For the same reason an insignificant upgrade in PS4/720's hardware ( say 2-4x ) would not hold my interest as much. Curiousity and interest grow hand-in-hand with progress as occurs in any other industry ( I see no reason to change from S3 to Xperia T, despite miniscule improvements in power - And others view similarly, else less dominant brands would sell ).
These hypotheses most certainly won't come into effect though and I personally wouldn't worry about it. Your example regarding the Vita-3DS situation is apt though and I find Vita's results unfortunate, though that's mostly in due to the growth in mobile games. However I have to note, iOS has some awesome games.
I agree with you to a certain extent. While certainly true that games themselves make much of the entertainment and graphics play second fiddle to gameplay, writing and such, I personally value constant evolution highly as it keeps me 'interested in going forward'. In this regard, I was personally disappointed with the WiiU's premise in addition to it's technical limitations as I find it to improve on Wii's rather than PS3/360's weaknesses and to some extent resemble our current generation. Why so? For the same reason an insignificant upgrade in PS4/720's hardware ( say 2-4x ) would not hold my interest as much. Curiousity and interest grow hand-in-hand with progress as occurs in any other industry ( I see no reason to change from S3 to Xperia T, despite miniscule improvements in power - And others view similarly, else less dominant brands would sell ).
These hypotheses most certainly won't come into effect though and I personally wouldn't worry about it. Your example regarding the Vita-3DS situation is apt though and I find Vita's results unfortunate, though that's mostly in due to the growth in mobile games. However I have to note, iOS has some awesome games.
I played Trackmania on integrated graphics and loved it. I got a 5770 and cranked up some settings and loved it more. Pretty sure once i can play it fully maxed out at 60fps in 3D i'd like it even more! Some of us like graphics and gameplay.
Different standards, as in double standards?
You know, people with handhelds also play at home, whereas they could be playing much better looking games on their console.
Gravity Rush would be trounced techwise by any x360 game, but will likely be a top 5 GOTY contender.
If OP wants more Gravity Rush, it's because he appreciates good games first and foremost. Despite tech limitations. And so there's no reason why he couldn't enjoy good games on a Nintendo console. Despite (lesser) tech limitations.
Nintendo has the most to lose if the industry goes belly up, so they're very interested in keeping it healthy.
GotEmRunnin
Member
I'm actually on the opposite end of this spectrum. The WiiU will be the only console I have under my TV come this fall and that will continue until the Wii-3 (W3), PS5, and Xbox 1080 come going with the cheaper of those 3.
My reasoning being strictly financial however. As a father who has children who game it's more cost effective for me to have 1 console, in addition I have my PC which I typically buy what one would consider "hardcore" games and steam/GOG sales keep me more than entertained. True I'll miss some great gems. I just don't have the time nor do I want to spend the money to try and play em all.
My reasoning being strictly financial however. As a father who has children who game it's more cost effective for me to have 1 console, in addition I have my PC which I typically buy what one would consider "hardcore" games and steam/GOG sales keep me more than entertained. True I'll miss some great gems. I just don't have the time nor do I want to spend the money to try and play em all.
This isn't the only thing that bothers me tho. In the past all console manufacturers used the razor and razorblade approach. We got great hardware at great prices value wise and they made money back on games. These days its crazy unbalanced. Call it greed, call it a new industry but its crap. Undoubtedly nintendo will profit day one with the Wii U but on top of it we get no true killer app. Instead of a real Mario, those who choose to partake will get a cookie cutter cash grab that would have been laughed at in the past.
How is that fair to us as the consumer? Rushed non innovative games, boring sequels, low specs and we pay a premium and are expected to be grateful we still have the industry. Maybe I am getting old but I just expect to be excited about the next big thing when having to put my money down not being expected to just gobble it up because it says nintendo or apple on it.
and to add to it sony and MS are just as guilty this gen. the pricing on the 360 and ps3 at this point, hell the pricing of software at this point in the generation is just ridiculous.
I bring my 3DS everywhere with me and I love it. Doesn't mean I want my console games at that level. But I differ from the OP in that I'd keep gaming if graphics maxed out at 3DS levels forever. I'd always wish they hadn't though.
Why stop there, OP? An eye for an eye, the law of equal retribution, that's how the world works, call it instant karma, I don't know. The murderers of hardcore gaming deserve to be murdered. And even if the world should hold us in contempt (despite our upholding its most beautiful principle), ironically sentencing its valiant vessels and messengers of death to death, our final words will reverberate through eternity: "Yeah, right, but, I mean, ... the WiiU ... what kind of name is that, anyway?!"
I must be weird because I think NSMB U could easily be the best 2D Mario game ever. It's checking all the right boxes.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
If you care about Japanese games.....yeah, Wii u will probably be their console. Western third parties though? Fuck no. Although there is nothing wrong with thinking that Wii u will be the best selling console next gen, it definitely won't sale so much to the point that it'll be>>>>> ps4+720+PC all put together(which is what third party western developers will new targeting next gen). And even of it does will it even matter when you are taking about "core" games? I mean do you honestly think that dragon age 2, star wars 1313, just cause 3, battlefield 4, doom 4, the next red dead game and what ever new "core" games that western third parties will come out with next gen will even launch on Wii u, let alone sale as much as ps4+720+PC copies put together or justify its dumbing down to run on Wii u? Wii u will get ps3 and 360 Ports for a while. But when third party developers start being graphic whores, they'll drop Wii u like a fucking rock.
Of course, and that's why you also have at least another console. Even if Wii U had insane graphics, would it be the only console he'd buy? No, because there would be exclusive games he likes on other platforms. Eventually, Wii U will add to the medium if it provides great games you can't find elsewhere. There's no reason it can't achieve this goal, and there's no reason to fear it does.
Yeah, I can agree with this. Personally the gamepad is the most appealing thing about the WiiU so while it may lag visually, it'll probably have games that can't be replicates elsewhere. I hope I like them.