Refreshment.01
Member
Zelda II. Go play it. XD
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Aonuma: Zelda Wii U may take inspiration from Skyrim/other Open World games
- Thread starter Volotaire
- Start date
H_Prestige
Banned
Dungeons with nothing but combat would get pretty boring. Dark Souls controls with attack/block on the shoulder buttons would be perfect for Zelda though. As would the lack of hand holding and time wasting. Seriously, that was flat out offensive in SS. The game should start within ten minutes max with minimal interruptions and cutscenes thereafter.
DragonSworne
Banned
So I was taking a look at the trailer for The Witness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7h7AleSCF4, and I think its island captures the kind of overworld I want Nintendo to adopt for the next Zelda game.
It's small (maybe too small for a zelda game) but has a smart design and a lot of interesting aspects. It reminds me of the overworld in a lot of the older Zelda games.
Basically, my biggest dissapointments for the next zelda game will be
1) If the overworld is hub world design
2) If the overworld is just a big land mass of emptiness with no personality.
It's small (maybe too small for a zelda game) but has a smart design and a lot of interesting aspects. It reminds me of the overworld in a lot of the older Zelda games.
Basically, my biggest dissapointments for the next zelda game will be
1) If the overworld is hub world design
2) If the overworld is just a big land mass of emptiness with no personality.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Sounds good to me.
I hope it's the same ol crap.
Zelda sits within some really odd middle grounds for me, and I'd like to see the series play to it's strengths more in the future, personally.
As mentioned in this thread, something more like Dark Souls would be cool; a Zelda game that goes all out with the lore, world-building, and atmosphere would be lovely. Recently though, they seem to be trying more for a linear narrative structure. That's fine, but then, why not play to the strengths of that structure, then? Seeing a Zelda game get praise for having a fantastic story would be really nice.
On top of that, I don't like the middle ground they have with Link's character, either. He's supposed to be your "link" to the world (durr hurr hurr), but in that case, why do I get hardly any choice in what he says and does? Persona 3 has a silent protagonist, and that game is full of dialogue choices and options that actually make me feel immersed in the world. I actually buy that the on-screen character is a representation of me (albeit without any appearance customization, but he looks cool so it's no big deal) because I choose how he talks, who he talks to, and how he spends his days. Link isn't like that; for starters, the structure of the narrative doesn't really give me much choice in what to do and where to go, and Link just coincidentally doesn't act anything like me. That's fine, because he's not really a player avatar either, and more of a canonical character with a personality. ... But then, why does he get no development? Why doesn't he talk? It's been made clear that he does it off-screen, but... why? What's the point?
Zelda could definitely learn a thing or two from Skyrim, but I think it'd gain much more benefit from being more true to itself and taking a firm stance on its design rather than being a middle ground between two extremes.
Personally, I'd take better storytelling and combat in the next Zelda over exploration any day, but I realize I'm probably in a minority there.
As mentioned in this thread, something more like Dark Souls would be cool; a Zelda game that goes all out with the lore, world-building, and atmosphere would be lovely. Recently though, they seem to be trying more for a linear narrative structure. That's fine, but then, why not play to the strengths of that structure, then? Seeing a Zelda game get praise for having a fantastic story would be really nice.
On top of that, I don't like the middle ground they have with Link's character, either. He's supposed to be your "link" to the world (durr hurr hurr), but in that case, why do I get hardly any choice in what he says and does? Persona 3 has a silent protagonist, and that game is full of dialogue choices and options that actually make me feel immersed in the world. I actually buy that the on-screen character is a representation of me (albeit without any appearance customization, but he looks cool so it's no big deal) because I choose how he talks, who he talks to, and how he spends his days. Link isn't like that; for starters, the structure of the narrative doesn't really give me much choice in what to do and where to go, and Link just coincidentally doesn't act anything like me. That's fine, because he's not really a player avatar either, and more of a canonical character with a personality. ... But then, why does he get no development? Why doesn't he talk? It's been made clear that he does it off-screen, but... why? What's the point?
Zelda could definitely learn a thing or two from Skyrim, but I think it'd gain much more benefit from being more true to itself and taking a firm stance on its design rather than being a middle ground between two extremes.
Personally, I'd take better storytelling and combat in the next Zelda over exploration any day, but I realize I'm probably in a minority there.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Finally.
I know this comment was made over a month ago but watching some of these Zelda runs on Summer Games Done Quick makes it pretty laughable
.Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The problem Zelda faces is that for a lot of people, what they want is a fantasy adventure built like whatever is the current standard fantasy game. So it's Dark Souls, or open world Skyrim.
I have a feeling that no matter what the next Zelda game is like, if it retains too much of what actually makes it Zelda, people are still going to turn their nose up at it because it's "old". It seems for many there's no room for more than one kind of game. It's the current "standard setting" design or nothing.
Funny thing is, Skyward Sword was a direct attempt to translate more of 2D Zelda's tight flow and intense combat into 3D - based off of Link to the Past. They had a lot of success. When people just say "make it like Skyrim but you know awesome and polished" I imagine the Homermobile. What makes Zelda "polished"? Its tight design. It's intrinsically difficult to plop game elements down in a big sandbox field and retain any kind of tight, polished game experience and flow. Different designs with different goals.
The valid Dark Souls comparison for Zelda is a 3D overworld that is intertwined with itself and intensely detailed. But creating something like that on the scale required for a Zelda sized world would be no small task. Just copying what is at this point the generic western sandbox template is not the solution.
I have a feeling that no matter what the next Zelda game is like, if it retains too much of what actually makes it Zelda, people are still going to turn their nose up at it because it's "old". It seems for many there's no room for more than one kind of game. It's the current "standard setting" design or nothing.
Funny thing is, Skyward Sword was a direct attempt to translate more of 2D Zelda's tight flow and intense combat into 3D - based off of Link to the Past. They had a lot of success. When people just say "make it like Skyrim but you know awesome and polished" I imagine the Homermobile. What makes Zelda "polished"? Its tight design. It's intrinsically difficult to plop game elements down in a big sandbox field and retain any kind of tight, polished game experience and flow. Different designs with different goals.
The valid Dark Souls comparison for Zelda is a 3D overworld that is intertwined with itself and intensely detailed. But creating something like that on the scale required for a Zelda sized world would be no small task. Just copying what is at this point the generic western sandbox template is not the solution.
I know this comment was made over a month ago but watching some of these Zelda runs on Summer Games Done Quick makes it pretty laughable
Also the last two console Zelda games launched with game breaking glitches if you did events in a specific order, and for TTP you had to mail your save to Nintendo to fix it.
You had to do the same with SS - Thats from the inability to update games on the console. Easily fixable now.
If "figure out where to go" is actually something you can figure, not some pointless wondering until you reach the "right" next area.
Bill Rizer
Member
Mmm, I'm not so fond of SS's success in this regard. Classic Zeldas where immediate and arcadey, they required character positioning rather than motion reflexes. 30 fps didn't help for sure SS's combat (Nintendoland plays way better) but still the concept lacked something to me.
imho, combat system must be totally scrapped and redone for next Zelda. I would start dropping z-targetting, that's a thing of the past, and working on a more natural interaction like in 2d games or pure beat'em ups like Ninja Gaiden. Flawless execution without any target locking: this is what Zelda needs to be fun again.
This is good - I hope people realise that when Anouma says this he doesn't actually mean Skyrim. The game won't be Skyrim. He means he's taking the good aspects of a game like Skyrim and mixing it with what we already have with Zelda. So this means big open world Zelda with lush, epic environments and all the great points of Zelda we know and love.
Can't wait.
Can't wait.
MrSaturn99
Member
I'm welcome for any sort of change so long as it's actually executed well. My hatred of Skyward Sword's slog of an overworld knows no bounds.
Personally while it didn't capture the same magic as Oblivion for me, I still felt Skyrim was an enjoyable experience so I'm all for open-world inspiration (Also, why was the combat/magic system hated, again?)
Personally while it didn't capture the same magic as Oblivion for me, I still felt Skyrim was an enjoyable experience so I'm all for open-world inspiration (Also, why was the combat/magic system hated, again?)
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
The primary thing I hope they take from Skyrim is the dark atmosphere.
I'm getting pretty damned sick of Zelda looking like Saturday morning cartoons.
I'm getting pretty damned sick of Zelda looking like Saturday morning cartoons.
MaximoffZero
Banned
This.
Still, I'm imagining the developers combining all of Link's grunts and cries into a dragon shout. It's quite hilarious.
Go play Twilight Princess then. Hell, Skyward Sword doesn't look much like "Saturday morning cartoons" either. Nothing wrong with a nice bit of colour.
To be honest, I kind of wish they would pull off a Wind Waker 2.0. Loved the art in that game. No way are they ever going to do that with a big 3D Zelda again though.
I know, right? Fuck family friendly, Link should totes execute dudes like Kratos in the next one. Not nearly enough QTEs, blood spray, or harpy boobs in the series.
H_Prestige
Banned
So you decide what makes Zelda feel like Zelda? Because the last three Zelda games felt nothing like the Zelda games I used to like. I just replayed OOT and realized the things I like about it are a lot of the same things I like about Dark Souls.
MaximoffZero
Banned
Believe me, I have nothing against being family-friendly or cartoony. Heck, I still watch Saturday Morning Cartoons and I don't even have kids.
I just think Zelda would work well in a darker, more serious style.
Buddha Beam
Banned
All good suggestions in this thread.
Personally, I'd like it if at some point after you beat a dungeon, you can go back through and find some nut or cult or something has taken up residence and you can clear them out. Like a second quest type of thing.
I think it's possible to make a near perfect Zelda that gives almost everybody what they want. The things people ask for, as different as they are, don't really conflict. So you make it open world, but a lot of places are locked off. You can tackle some dungeons in any order, but others are locked off so as to keep the general narrative structure in place. You can give it a mature feeling but still keep the whimsy. Use a dark color palette, but saturate the colors. Lots of exploration and less hand holding. Add difficulty levels and determine the amount of hand holding. Voice acting only in cut scenes, but none of that bullshit like in Mass Effect.
That's the frustrating thing about Zelda lately. They COULD make a game with the size of Twilight Princess, the adventure and epicness of Ocarina, the puzzles of Majora, the exploration of Wind Waker and the combat and tightness of Skyward Sword.
...but they always seem to kind of focus on one area in every game at the expense of others. We don't ever really get that full package.
Personally, I'd like it if at some point after you beat a dungeon, you can go back through and find some nut or cult or something has taken up residence and you can clear them out. Like a second quest type of thing.
I think it's possible to make a near perfect Zelda that gives almost everybody what they want. The things people ask for, as different as they are, don't really conflict. So you make it open world, but a lot of places are locked off. You can tackle some dungeons in any order, but others are locked off so as to keep the general narrative structure in place. You can give it a mature feeling but still keep the whimsy. Use a dark color palette, but saturate the colors. Lots of exploration and less hand holding. Add difficulty levels and determine the amount of hand holding. Voice acting only in cut scenes, but none of that bullshit like in Mass Effect.
That's the frustrating thing about Zelda lately. They COULD make a game with the size of Twilight Princess, the adventure and epicness of Ocarina, the puzzles of Majora, the exploration of Wind Waker and the combat and tightness of Skyward Sword.
...but they always seem to kind of focus on one area in every game at the expense of others. We don't ever really get that full package.
This is actually exactly what I DON'T want.
I hate when games try too hard to be all DARK and MATURE. Zelda has always been a colorful, cute series and should stay that way. My favorite Zelda games have always been the more humorous, cutesy ones, such as Link's Awakening and Wind Waker.
However I wouldn't mind something like Mother 3, where's it's cute and colorful but has a story with some darker themes.
Oh man, this thread is going to haunt all future Zelda threads isn't it? Did anyone actually bother to read the article? The thread title is a HUGE stretch.
As far as combat goes. These Dark Souls combat mentions are a bit baffling to me. DS combat is about as simple as any combat in a 3d Zelda. Hold shield, wait for large attack, block, then attack. Rinse and repeat. Or if you're really looking to undermine, backstab the game. Now if your're talking about some features of the enemy design (attack patterns, and damage output) sure those would be nice things to have. But in general DS, more hard than it is fun combat can stay in DS.
As far as combat goes. These Dark Souls combat mentions are a bit baffling to me. DS combat is about as simple as any combat in a 3d Zelda. Hold shield, wait for large attack, block, then attack. Rinse and repeat. Or if you're really looking to undermine, backstab the game. Now if your're talking about some features of the enemy design (attack patterns, and damage output) sure those would be nice things to have. But in general DS, more hard than it is fun combat can stay in DS.
I think Majora's Mask and OoT pulled it off pretty well. There wasn't an overt effort to be ALL DARK, ALL THE TIME, but there were still creepy undertones that could occasionally become the stuff of nightmares.
i want something like what they did with OoT/MM. one game that at its root appears really traditional. maybe this time even a step into more bright and hopeful. the other a DLC for it that just completely twists everything that was in it for the worse. we can have our cake and eat it
MiamiWesker
Member
My dream video game is a TES like game with the level design, puzzles, action, bosses, and general pacing of a Zelda game. That is the perfect video game.
Please make it so Aonuma.
Please make it so Aonuma.
fruiteater
Neo Member
but didnt they essetially do open world game with wind waker? only thing i think that zelda could "borrow" from skyrim is non linear quest design, ie you just choose the order you do dungeons.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
So there will be more to find in cheats than rupees and heart pieces? That's actually pretty exciting.
I'm pretty sure that's what he is referring to.
They've said so since they first talked about it when they revealed Wind Waker HD.
I'm not sure I agree. It's not that the Zelda games are low budget as they are, but a game hitting ALL THE NOTES without watering down any one of them would be such a huge project that I barely can imagine it. I'd rather they pick a direction and focus on making that as good as possible rather than scattershotting to please all fans (this already resulted in Twilight Princess).
Almost certainly.
I explained in the OP the extra part, that he wants to recreate that kind of 'feeling'. I had this argument an few months ago in this thread.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Skyrim is awesome.
This could be the best thing for the Zelda series in some time.
This could be the best thing for the Zelda series in some time.