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[Pristine_Condition]

On this note, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing Android powered, iPod Touch-esque devices. Capable of media playback, Internet & Email (wi-fi) & running apps but without the 'phone' component. They could be priced in an extremely predatory manner, I'd imagine.

I doubt it. Apple controls the market for the components that make up these devices through the ability to drop billions of dollars in guaranteed cash orders on their vendors.

Really, only Microsoft has the cash to do that on Apple's level, and this isn't a game they want to play anymore, at least not until WP7 is mature. The current players in the Android world just don't have the cash. Their margins on Android phones are slim enough anyway, and those margins rely on subsidies from carriers. Take them away, and where's the money?

Sure, eventually, you'll see these devices flow down, but I don't think anyone is going to have success taking the iPod Touch on directly at Apple's price points. They'll have to either go low-end or high-end to find a niche.

 

[charlequin]

Average iOS revenue per (non-free/lite) game available = $41k
Average DS revenue per game available = $500k - 1 million
This estimate doesn't mean a whole lot in real terms, but it does show the gulf between the systems.

There have been other analyses with a bit more data behind them that have come to similar conclusions, too. At the moment (no statement as to the future) iOS development is outrageously lucrative for Apple and very good for the top developers and those who are small enough to take full advantage of the long-tail economics, but it doesn't currently have the ability to support very many larger development projects.

Something to consider though...we're on the verge of a new generation of handhelds and there's a very real possibility some of those existing DS and PSP owners will be upgrading to something other than a 3DS or a PSP2.

I think that's absolutely true (or, moreso, I think there's a lot of DS/PSP owners who already have an iOS device and just won't bother buying a new gaming handheld anytime soon.) Phrased as a negative influence rather than an existential threat, I absolutely agree that smartphone/tablet/media-player gaming is going to take a bite out of handhelds.

The big thing, for me, is that there are Nintendo games that I absolutely don't believe will suffer as a result (Pokemon will still come out for 3DS and it will still be outrageously huge) and I think it's at least conceivable that NGP will carve out some sort of new high-end-portable-gaming niche.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

I'm surprised that the PSP has held on to its percentage so well. Best handheld ever keeps on chugging.

 

[charlequin]

On this note, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing Android powered, iPod Touch-esque devices.

I'm honestly shocked that we aren't already. It's a hugely lucrative segment for Apple and it feels like everyone is completely ignoring it.

Perhaps it's one of those things that you can't live without only after having been inducted but from my outsider standpoint, it's all rather perplexing. If I had a smartphone plan with all the so-called essential bells and whistles, it would be far more costly than all my utilities combined or match my expenditure on high speed internet plus electricity.

Yup, it's expensive (read: overpriced) but it's a huge lifechanger. My Droid 2 is honestly the coolest individual device I have ever owned.

 

[Ickman3400]

iPhone/iPad games have completely replaced my need for traditional handheld gaming for the last year.

How is that even possible? I don't even really like handhelds because they don't fill my need like pc and consoles do, so I can only guess (since iphone is waaaay worse) that I would be bored almost instantly with it.

 

[H_Prestige]

Yeah, I don't get why Samsung hasn't come out with with an "ipod touch" device based on the Galaxy S Android. The hardware is a hit.

 

[twofold]

On this note, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing Android powered, iPod Touch-esque devices. Capable of media playback, Internet & Email (wi-fi) & running apps but without the 'phone' component. They could be priced in an extremely predatory manner, I'd imagine.

Samsung already released one - it was a bit shit, though. We'll probably see better Android based devices later on this year once version 3.0 comes out.

 

[Utako]

Me too. People either like exactly what I like or they can get off my lawn.

Fuckers.

Spoiler

The thought of paying £40 for a handheld game makes me sick.

To be fair, even the 3DS launch lineup is better than 99% of the iDroid library.

To be fairer, the iPhone has a way, way WAY better OS than the 3DS, even though it's the worst OS in its category.

 

[commish]

How is that even possible? I don't even really like handhelds because they don't fill my need like pc and consoles do, so I can only guess (since iphone is waaaay worse) that I would be bored almost instantly with it.

How is it possible that someone has different taste than you?

 

[Ickman3400]

How is it possible that someone has different taste than you?

I just can't fathom how a gamer could prefer it over..well, anything else.

 

[Utako]

How is it possible that someone has different taste than you?

Everything is a matter of taste, friend, but some things have self-evident quality.

 

[Tobor]

I just can't fathom how a gamer could prefer it over..well, anything else.

iOS has the portable games I want at a vastly superior pricepoint, with full digital distribution, achievements, leaderboards, online multiplayer, and interesting and innovative gameplay.

It's not hard to fathom at all.

 

[Ickman3400]

iOS has the portable games I want at a vastly superior pricepoint, with full digital distribution, achievements, leaderboards, online multiplayer, and interesting and innovative gameplay.

It's not hard to fathom at all.

You must not want the same kind of games I do then. I want full quality games on an actual workable control scheme, no full touch or any touch at all preferably.

But the point is kind of moot anyway since I get bored on real handhelds as well. Whatever I guess.

 

[dream]

You know how the Wii proved you don't necessarily need 2 analog sticks, a d-pad, 4 face buttons, and a bunch of triggers to play a video game? The iPhone does the same thing, only it shows you don't always need any buttons at all.

I know how weird that sounds and gaming purists will roll their eyes but the nature of iOS devices enable entirely new breeds of games. Games like Papa Sangre would never fly on other systems but they feel and play perfectly on the iPhone.

I know, I know..."what the fuck is Papa Sangre?" But playing that for an hour is just as good as playing an hour of Etrian Odyssey for me when I have to kill some time.

 

[Reallink]

I doubt it. Apple controls the market for the components that make up these devices through the ability to drop billions of dollars in guaranteed cash orders on their vendors.

Really, only Microsoft has the cash to do that on Apple's level, and this isn't a game they want to play anymore, at least not until WP7 is mature. The current players in the Android world just don't have the cash. Their margins on Android phones are slim enough anyway, and those margins rely on subsidies from carriers. Take them away, and where's the money?

Sure, eventually, you'll see these devices flow down, but I don't think anyone is going to have success taking the iPod Touch on directly at Apple's price points. They'll have to either go low-end or high-end to find a niche.

How are margins slim in selling $100-200 phones for $500-600? That's not rhetorical, seriously asking. I know HTC recently posted record revenue and profits in Q1.

 

[commish]

You must not want the same kind of games I do then. I want full quality games on an actual workable control scheme, no full touch or any touch at all preferably.

But the point is kind of moot anyway since I get bored on real handhelds as well. Whatever I guess.

Handhelds are all about gaming on the go. If you don't game on the go, then playing a handheld at home would probably have less appeal, since you have your consoles and PC at home.

 

[Tobor]

You must not want the same kind of games I do then. I want full quality games on an actual workable control scheme, no full touch or any touch at all preferably.

But the point is kind of moot anyway since I get bored on real handhelds as well. Whatever I guess.

There are games where touch controls are actually superior, such as strategy games and RPG's.

And yes, if you don't play on dedicated handhelds anyway, your point is moot.

 

[charlequin]

How is that even possible?

iOS is great for score-attack games, puzzle games, and a few other "casual" genres (like tower defense), and can top that off with some handheld/console/PC ports (Square-Enix RPGs, Chinatown Wars, World of Goo, etc.) and a few slightly meatier "handheld AAA" type games (Infinity Blade.) There are definitely tastes which I can imagine it suiting very effectively, especially (as is often the case with arguments about platform "depth") if someone hasn't played the multiplatform games on another system.

 

[H_Prestige]

How are margins slim in selling $100-200 phones for $500-600? That's not rhetorical, seriously asking. I know HTC recently posted record revenue and profits in Q1.

That may be a slim margin when all the money you ever make is from the hardware sale. Might just barely cover all the R&D and manufacturing costs.

 

[H_Prestige]

There are games where touch controls are actually superior, such as strategy games and RPG's.

And yes, if you don't play on dedicated handhelds anyway, your point is moot.

I hope you don't mean every RPG. I just tried FF3 on iphone and I don't know how anyone seen would consider moving a character around with a touch screen better than analog stick or d-pad.

 

[Interfectum]

I hope you don't mean every RPG. I just tried FF3 on iphone and I don't know how anyone seen would consider moving a character around with a touch screen better than analog stick or d-pad.

It's not better, but it's good enough.

I'd rather have touch screen FF3 controls on my iPhone that I can play at any time than have to carry around an additional device.

 

[commish]

It's not better, but it's good enough.

I'd rather have touch screen FF3 controls on my iPhone that I can play at any time than have to carry around an additional device.

I agree that I don't want to carry around an additional device, but touch controls are pretty crappy in a lot of these games. So much so, unfortunately, that I can't get into them on my ipad/iphone. I'M LOOKING AT YOU, SHINING FORCE.

 

[Tobor]

I hope you don't mean every RPG. I just tried FF3 on iphone and I don't know how anyone seen would consider moving a character around with a touch screen better than analog stick or d-pad.

I havent played FF3 yet, but I played Chaos Rings and the virtual controls were fine. It's not a precision platformer.

What I meant by superior for RPG's is menu UI and battle commands, which obviously depends on the developer.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

I havent played FF3 yet, but I played Chaos Rings and the virtual controls were fine. It's not a precision platformer.

What I meant by superior for RPG's is menu UI and battle commands, which obviously depends on the developer.

I bought Chaos Rings excitedly and couldn't stand playing it because of the controls.

 

[hyp]

FF3 rocks, and so do touch controls as long as they don't require a virtual d-pad. but even some of those that do are pretty ace (league of evil, pizza boy, etc.)

 

[ReBurn]

It's just my opinion, which is completely supported by...my opinion, but I think that dedicated handhelds like DS, NDS, PSP and even 3DS and NGP are in trouble with their value proposition. I've had some awesome experiences on my iPad and Android phone for less than 5 bucks. I think the business model for portable gaming has already changed. The Nintendos and Sonys of the world just haven't gotten the memo.

I got PewPew 2 from Amazon's Android app store last week for free. It was offered up as part of Amazon's free paid app every day offer. The game is easily worth more than the $4.99 price to purchase it. It is easy to play, is pleasantly challenging, and is just a lot of fun. The "lack of buttons" isn't a factor at all because the interface is simple and well-designed.

I just do not have time to immerse myself in portable experiences. I might have the 15 or 20 minutes I'm waiting in line at the bank or for the kids to get out of Karate class. I suspect that there is a market segment like me out there that most people would describe using the pejorative term "casual". But games that scratch my gaming itch in 15 minutes or less are going to get more of my money than what the "typical" DS or PSP game will. Sorry if I'm ruining it for everyone else, but that's just the way it goes.

 

[Minsc]

I bought Chaos Rings excitedly and couldn't stand playing it because of the controls.

I felt no desire at all for physical controls in that game, the touch screen controls worked well. I hope the NGP's touchscreen means we see more 100% playable touch-controlled only games (as an option), I wouldn't mind SRPGs making use of the touchscreen for dynamically rotating/zooming and square selection.

 

[Tobor]

Anyway, we're getting off track with the virtaul control talk. The original point was that it's entirely possible to be satisfied with a smartphone/tablet as your main gaming handheld.

Not for everyone, obviously, but for enough people to dramatically alter the market.

 

[jman2050]

Chaos Rings is precisely the type of game that shouldn't have been on iOS to begin with.

 

[bafflewaffle]

Nintendo got disrupted.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

How are margins slim in selling $100-200 phones for $500-600? That's not rhetorical, seriously asking. I know HTC recently posted record revenue and profits in Q1.

Those companies don't get near Apple's margins. Ask anybody in the business on the carrier side. Aside from whatever the hot high-end Android handset is at the time, soon to be replaced by the next new offering, for the rest of the Android lineup, they pay much higher sales commissions per phone than for Apple, the manufacturers get less subsidy from the carrier, and the carriers are doing lots of promotional pricing and BOGO deals for those units.

That's why in the last quarter reported, Apple had "only" 4% market share, and around 20% of total revenue, but was taking more than 50% of the total profits for the entire industry in the segment.

HTC is doing well, through volume, and operating at a low cost, but they would certainly like to command better total pricing for their products than they can get now. The rumblings you hear about negotiations breaking down over certain handsets, Verizon eliminating one-year contract deals, with Sprint not far behind with their non-one-year renewals tiers, and AT&T jacking up their one-year renewal prices, all point to one thing--the carriers are increasingly playing hardball over subsidies.

 

[Gamecocks625]

Anyway, we're getting off track with the virtaul control talk. The original point was that it's entirely possible to be satisfied with a smartphone/tablet as your main gaming handheld.

Not for everyone, obviously, but for enough people to dramatically alter the market.

I can certainly attest to this. I don't miss the DS or PSP at all after gaming on the iPod touch 4 since last September. I know I'm not the only one, either. There are PLENTY of games on iOS now that can satisfy someone who needs a little gaming on the go without having to buy a DS/PSP. Consoles are just fine, though. No amount of iOS love will make consoles go away. Although I do see the two merging at some point, particularly now that we see the iPad 2 having an HDMI-out.

That said, I still think Nintendo will be fine with their traditional franchises on the handheld space.

 

[Skilletor]

Handhelds are all about gaming on the go. If you don't game on the go, then playing a handheld at home would probably have less appeal, since you have your consoles and PC at home.

Not how I look at it.

I enjoy good games. I don't give a shuck where they are offered.

The best games for me on iOS are designed with the controls in mind, not those that are old genres with touch screen controls. These can be serviceable, but they are by no means optimal or preferred for me.

 

[Ickman3400]

There are games where touch controls are actually superior, such as strategy games and RPG's.

And yes, if you don't play on dedicated handhelds anyway, your point is moot.

I used to play handhelds. My point was if I got bored with ds/psp games then why would I go play something with even less substance?

I had planned to leave it at my last comment but I wanted to clarify what I was trying to say.

 

[bob page]

My point was if I got bored with ds/psp games then why would I go play something with even less substance?

So ignorant.

 

[Tobor]

I used to play handhelds. My point was if I got bored with ds/psp games then why would I go play something with even less substance?

I had planned to leave it at my last comment but I wanted to clarify what I was trying to say.

SMH. You should have just left it alone.

 

[poppabk]

Anyway, we're getting off track with the virtaul control talk. The original point was that it's entirely possible to be satisfied with a smartphone/tablet as your main gaming handheld.

Not for everyone, obviously, but for enough people to dramatically alter the market.

I am entirely satisfied with a gameboy advance as my main gaming handheld.

 

[Pureauthor]

I used to play handhelds. My point was if I got bored with ds/psp games then why would I go play something with even less substance?

I had planned to leave it at my last comment but I wanted to clarify what I was trying to say.

Your first mistake is thinking that handheld games somehow inherently have less substance than console games.

Your second mistake is thinking that iOS games somehow inherently have less substance than handheld games.

 

[Ickman3400]

Your first mistake is thinking that handheld games somehow inherently have less substance than console games.

Your second mistake is thinking that iOS games somehow inherently have less substance than handheld games.

You call those mistakes, I call them preferences. I mean I was blatantly told that iphone is great for score-attack games, puzzle games, and a few other "casual" genres. I don't play any of that. I would rather put 15 minutes into something that will leave me wanting more like an Elder Scrolls type game than something I will forget moments after playing it like a $5 game I used to play for free on flash sites just to waste time.

but yeah I'll leave it alone after this. It's obvious the type of people I'm up against and I have no interest in arguing with them or worse, getting banned for it.

 

[Pureauthor]

You have a very odd definition of the word 'substance', then.

 

[dream]

but yeah I'll leave it alone after this. It's obvious the type of people I'm up against and I have no interest in arguing with them or worse, getting banned for it.

People who think fun is fun and don't discriminate against games based on platforms?

 

[bob page]

You call those mistakes, I call them preferences. I mean I was blatantly told that iphone is great for score-attack games, puzzle games, and a few other "casual" genres. I don't play any of that. I would rather put 15 minutes into something that will leave me wanting more like an Elder Scrolls type game than something I will forget moments after playing it like a $5 game I used to play for free on flash sites just to waste time.

For $5 you can buy Sword & Sworcery on the App Store. So that experience is comparable to something you used to play on flash sites?

Whatever, trying to put some sense into you won't happen, it seems. Try going into another thread and saying a game sucks because its your "preference."

 

[FoxMcCloudDS]

hahaha. I love these posts. No body ever thinks that perhaps the mobile smart phone audience grew by a substantial rate too? I know about half my friends who have jumped on the smart phone within the last 1-2 years. So, looking at these charts makes me kinda laugh. Obviously sales will grow if more people have the platform.

Nintendo isn't "worried" they still sell millions of copies of games, just as they always have. And they are continuing to grow.

 

[Tylahedras]

You know RPG's would work really well on iOS, you know like Pokem...

Spoiler

I didn't say it please dont' kill me

 

[hyp]

games are games. long form, short form, etc. and to the surprise of many, iOS has a lot of both types. maybe not as many as the dedicated handhelds and consoles, but a lot of games you can really sink your teeth into - for a fraction of the price too.

"iOS/Android games = flash crap/browser shit" is such a cop out that's getting real old.

 

[kiunchbb]

This reminded me when cell phone started to integrating built-in camera as a standard feature. People assumed that they will never replaced real camera since the spec will never be as good, but we just see more and more company closing down its camera manufacturing as the year go by.

There are still a high-end camera market, but it got a lot smaller and only cared by the most hardcore. I wonder if gaming will turn the same.

 

[Warm Machine]

Nintendo isn't "worried" they still sell millions of copies of games, just as they always have. And they are continuing to grow.

Actually Nintendo is worried. They are mostly concerned on the value proposition front with cheaper games flooding the market that they will need to compete with. Also the expectation of digital delivery service that is price competitive.

Soon the only type of phone you will be able to buy is going to be a smartphone, just like pretty much the only tv you can buy now is a flat panel 1080p one. It is a self fullfilling prophecy.

When anyone with a cell phone is holding a gaming capable device in their hands or in their pocket why would they bother adding another device in their pocket that is a side function on their phone?

 

[dream]

I actually just read an article that claims iPhone 4 is on the verge of becoming the most popular camera amongst Flickr users.

 

[bob page]

This reminded me when cell phone started to integrating built-in camera as a standard feature. People assumed that they will never replaced real camera since the spec will never be as good, but we just see more and more company closing down its camera manufacturing as the year go by.

There are still a high-end camera market, but it got a lot smaller and only cared by the most hardcore. I wonder if gaming will turn the same.

As long as Nintendo has their first-party franchises, they'll be fine. In my eyes, their franchises have always been their greatest asset- far more valuable than the actual hardware. Stick a new Mario game on any hardware and it'll sell like hotcakes. They're continuing to struggle with third-parties, though, just like they always have. That's where they'll hurt the most- and where business might start heading to iOS.

I actually just read an article that claims iPhone 4 is on the verge of becoming the most popular camera amongst Flickr users.

Yeah, I think the iPhone is the most popular camera on Flickr now (moreso than any point & shoot camera).

 

[dream]

Yeah, I think the iPhone is the most popular camera on Flickr now (moreso than any point & shoot camera).

Which kinda proves the old adage of "the best camera is the one you have with you" true.

I don't think it's that much of a stretch to extend that to "the best gaming device is the one you have with you."