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[Sho_Nuff82]

I'm waiting for the inevitable "So does anyone want to play Pokemon Dash/Mario Kart DS/GT PSP?" shops.

Oh, and

at Ipod gaming.

 

[Alcander]

I'm really confused as to how you might "shoot" in that FPS game when you are already using both thumbs to aim/move...?

 

[billy.sea]

The iTouch/iPhone is like the Wii (fun mini games, most games lack depth, cheap).
While DS/PSP is like 360/PS3 (more depth, more expensive)

I think the DS has a great balance of both though.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I really don't get some people. Iphone gaming is almost the complete opposite of the kind of experience I want out of a game. The controls suck, they only work for the simplest of games. That's what iphone gaming is good for, casual games. Very similar to the wii but wii games actually control better.

I'd disagree with that as my earlier post shows, but hypothetically wouldn't a handheld with several dozen of the best pop cap-esque "casual" time sinks actually be a fairly good value proposition to a lot of people?

 

[Crisis]

Hey Apple. Quick question - I own an iPod Touch like the other millions of people out there but do you really think it's a good idea to compare the library of the software available to that of the DS or PSP? I do not.

 

[infiniteloop]

I sold my DS after I got my iPhone.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

The iTouch/iPhone is like the Wii (fun mini games, most games lack depth, cheap).
While DS/PSP is like 360/PS3 (more depth, more expensive)

I think the DS has a great balance of both though.

by next gen, people will be calling the apple console casual, while games like Brain Training HD will be hardcore

 

[red shoe paul]

Hey Apple. Quick question - I own an iPod Touch like the other millions of people out there but do you really think it's a good idea to compare the library of the software available to that of the DS or PSP? I do not.

Seriously. Apple is fucking dumb.

 

[cws]

I sold my DS after I got my iPhone.

So...... ?

 

[Stumpokapow]

The iTouch/iPhone is like the Wii (fun mini games, most games lack depth, cheap).
While DS/PSP is like 360/PS3 (more depth, more expensive)

I think the DS has a great balance of both though.

What would you say constitutes a "fun mini game" on the DS, and what would you say constitutes a "deep" game on the DS?

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

I sold my DS after I got my iPhone.

I sold my 60GB PS3 after I got my coleco pac-man tabletop.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

My nephew loves the ipod touch and he is only two. He is obsessed cars and there is a game from Namco on the app store that does all the driving and all he has to do is steer. The only game he can play. Moreover I rather play Blackjack and checkers on my itouch than pick up my DS or PSP so yeah I think the Apple might be on to something.

the mighty ds brought down by a game of checkers. :lol

 

[MisterHero]

Doubters should really give iDevice gaming a try. It embodies what portable gaming is about much more than the DS/PSP. That's not to say it has higher quality software or more of it, but the DS/PSP software (PSP especially) demand more of an investment. An investment that means more than simply playing it in the car or on the bus/train. Most PSP/DS owners I know get the majority of their playtime with those two at home. I'm sorry, but I'd much rather play GT4/GT5 at home than GT PSP. The DS avoids this problem a little better, but it's still there. iDevice gaming, so far, knows what it's trying to provide and does so appropriately.

Yeah but Nintendo embodies what gaming is to me

Spoiler

Pokemanz

Would we have DSiWare and PSP Go if Apple didn't launch the iPhone and App Store?

Perhaps but game companies like Nintendo and Sega were experimenting with digital distribution in the 90s and even the 80s. Maybe it was Apple's iTunes success that told them it was the right time to try it again though.

 

[soco]

because of all the constraints imposed by apple on their app store, it's very prohibitive for companies to make some of the higher budget games that you'll see on other systems. they can fire all the shots they want, but it's not going to change much of anything.

personally, i've yet to see a single game that i really want to play on the ipod touch/iphone.

 

[otake]

I'd disagree with that as my earlier post shows, but hypothetically wouldn't a handheld with several dozen of the best pop cap-esque "casual" time sinks actually be a fairly good value proposition to a lot of people?

sure, but not to me. I can't say I've played the games you listed. The ones I have played were complete shit and yes it bothered me that my fingers were on the screen.

by the way, I'm actually happy apple is successful. This will result in app stores for every platform and lower prices. It's a good thing.

 

[SmallTimeLeon]

Read what you just wrote and get back to me with what's wrong there.

Here is a tip:

Spoiler

The money you would make from a resell would still leave you $10 out of pocket, and without a game

This rule applies to any DLC market.

Recouping the losses from a bad DS/PSP game are possible, perhaps a bit 50% or over 50% if you know someone whose willing to get it off your hands. Still, you payed 30 dollars for a DS game, you get at least 15 back on Ebay or through a friend at least 20-25.

For the Ipod/Iphone, you can't resell digital distributed games. I don't think I contradicted myself. =|?

It's an inherently flawed system IMHO and only targets the trendy kids who don't mind playing once or twice on their cellphone/Ipod. A lot of AAA PSP games have demos now and even the DS has a couple...a bit couple games. Sure there's no library but they usually have the latest games out on the market. I remember Trauma Center 2 DS being on the Nintendo channel once for a demo download so even AAA games make it.

I don't hate the Ipod, I just don't think it's a viable option as a gaming device. Apple just wants to tap into the DS/PSP gaming market but I don't think it'll work for them. They have their audience, stick with them. All this aggressive marketing is doing more harm than good for the people they want to convert into potential customers.

 

[TheSonicRetard]

The controls suck, they only work for the simplest of games.

I've had my iphone for about a month now, and I have about 50 games for it. In my experience, the only controls which suck are the ones which try to mimic standard gaming. Touch screen d-pads and analog sticks work, but not very well. You can acclimate, but it never feels good.

But to say only simple games work is wrong. The real bread and butter of the Iphone is the tilt controls. Those usually work wonderfully. Doom, Need for Speed, Top Gun... they all work very well with tilt controls. To the point where it feels like an analog stick.

Doom is an example of how to make a game that feels like a DS/PSP game, with good solid controls.

 

[Clockblockers]

I'm with the people saying that without buttons it won't fully compare to a DS or PSP; while I think it looks cool there's a point were a button free interface won't work. It's a nice companion but as of right now the iPOD touch will not replace a DS or PSP; however it would be stupid to dismiss the potential. Nintendo and Sony need to keep an eye on this, because it could become a threat in the not to distant future.

 

[Crisis]

Seriously. Apple is fucking dumb.

They're not dumb. They've sold an incredible amount of hardware. I think that they're barking up the wrong tree by firing shots directly at PSP and DS. Frequently a game doesn't work so well on the touch screen of iPhone and in order to have success most devs end up having to price a game way below what they'd like to be able to charge for it. There's some real gems on the iTunes store but it's hard to see past all the iFart apps and other trash.

 

[peakish]

This makes me want to see what Nintendo is doing after the DSI. I know it has its store but it still feels like a standard console, though I haven't played it so I'm only guessing from my impressions.

Now I fucking love the DS, but I'd like them to steal some more things from Apple handhelds. When will it happen?

 

[JasoNsider]

Wow, this is just plain dumb on Apple's part. If not dumb then at least a bit of douchebagery. Obviously it's in their best interest to compete on this, but they throwing mud and making comparisons like this makes them look even worse in my opinion.

 

[Stumpokapow]

sure, but not to me. I can't say I've played the games you listed. The ones I have played were complete shit and yes it bothered me that my fingers were on the screen.

It's very unfortunate that people would judge a platform without playing the best games on that platform. I took 100% of my recommendations from the iPhone recommendation thread we have on GAF. If you were just randomly buying games, I seriously suggest you consider being a little choosier and sticking to some stuff that's been vetted by other people and recommended.

I mean, no one would play a bunch of 65-75 metacritic games and then say the DS sucks. People would recommend a lot of the better games, and the person would probably enjoy the platform more. Same is true for the iPhone. You gotta check out the good stuff.

because of all the constraints imposed by apple on their app store, it's very prohibitive for companies to make some of the higher budget games that you'll see on other systems. they can fire all the shots they want, but it's not going to change much of anything.

This is true and weighting the top sellers list by cost would go a huge way to help stop this.

personally, i've yet to see a single game that i really want to play on the ipod touch/iphone.

What kind of games do you like on other platforms?

 

[Woo-Fu]

Great news for people happy with touch-only gaming. I get enough of that in real life.

 

[Davidion]

Wake me up when they've a good tetris game.

 

[otake]

I've had my iphone for about a month now, and I have about 50 games for it. In my experience, the only controls which suck are the ones which try to mimic standard gaming. Touch screen d-pads and analog sticks work, but not very well. You can acclimate, but it never feels good.

But to say only simple games work is wrong. The real bread and butter of the Iphone is the tilt controls. Those usually work wonderfully. Doom, Need for Speed, Top Gun... they all work very well with tilt controls. To the point where it feels like an analog stick.

Doom is an example of how to make a game that feels like a DS/PSP game, with good solid controls.

I went out of my way to play iphone games because I wanted reasons to buy an Ipod touch. Whatever I played failed and they were supposedly awesome (according to my co-workers). maybe those games work for you, they don't work for me.

 

[TheSonicRetard]

I'm really confused as to how you might "shoot" in that FPS game when you are already using both thumbs to aim/move...?

I don't have the Halo clone, but, judging from other iphone games I have, either the cross-hair is controlled by tilting the phone (which works really well despite sounding like complete shit) and you tap the gun to fire, or it's like MGS:Touch where dragging your finger around moves the cursor, but tapping fires.

The iphone is smart enough to tell the difference between putting your finger on the screen and tapping.

The secret to why tilt controls work so well for the iphone (vs, say, the DualShock 3) is because just about every game that has tilt controls lets you recalibrate the dead zone with the touch of a button. Er, icon.

 

[gerg]

I think that the only criticism that one might hold against the iPhone's App Store is from a development perspective. From a consumer's point of view - depending on what games one likes - it seems that the quality of the games one might enjoy can vary wildly.

 

[Tutomos]

Any Apple first party titles coming out to drive sales?

 

[syllogism]

I suppose iPhone has casual games worth playing but as I find it difficult to even find anything worth playing on DS/PSP, can't say I'm interested in anything iPhone has to offer

 

[Chinner]

I'm really confused as to how you might "shoot" in that FPS game when you are already using both thumbs to aim/move...?

Modern Combat has solved this problem: On the left handside there is a analog stick for movement, on the right you swipe to aim/look around and you double tap to shoot. It's a very solid control scheme and has made strides for making a playable FPS on a touchscreen and handheld console.

 

[Hero]

It's quite obvious Apple knows nothing about gaming since hardly any of that information is relevant. While I do enjoy some iPhone games (Space Invaders Infinity Gene / Geo Defense Oregon Trail), the majority of them blow.

 

[shattyboombatty]

These slides are pretty stupid... I don't know how much ipod games cost, but unless they put the most expensive ipod title next to these, this comparison is irrelevant.

And this is also pretty stupid unless they're just trying to be funny:

no ipod if you don't get an ipod? No shit... No psp/ds means no psp/ds.

Also psp (and ds) do have 'app stores'.

ALSO multi-touch user interface is overrated... I'd rather have buttons than have to controll an action game with my hands all over the screen.

 

[BikoBiko]

Well iPod is perfect for simple and small snack-sized games, but it's not comfortable to play longer games on it. There are a couple of gems there but most of the games are pretty crappy and forgettable. Good thing they're cheap.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Recouping the losses from a bad DS/PSP game are possible, perhaps a bit 50% or over 50% if you know someone whose willing to get it off your hands. Still, you payed 30 dollars for a DS game, you get at least 15 back on Ebay or through a friend at least 20-25.

For the Ipod/Iphone, you can't resell digital distributed games. I don't think I contradicted myself. =|?

No, you didn't, but you neglected
a) Demos, which are much more common on the iPhone--and you even concede that by saying "BTW now a few games have demos on other handhelds!"
b) If you buy a 30 dollar game and get 20 back, you're out $10. If you buy a $5 game and get $0 back, you're out $5.

I don't hate the Ipod, I just don't think it's a viable option as a gaming device. Apple just wants to tap into the DS/PSP gaming market but I don't think it'll work for them. They have their audience, stick with them. All this aggressive marketing is doing more harm than good for the people they want to convert into potential customers.

... this is not reflected in the reality of how the devices are selling or how apps are selling. It's fine if you feel like the platform is junk, it's fine if you feel like people shouldn't want to play dem shitty iphone games--but when you say "This isn't working for Apple" when it clearly is, you're entering a reality free zone.

These slides are pretty stupid... I don't know how much ipod games cost, but unless they put the most expensive ipod title next to these, this comparison is irrelevant.

err, those EXACT games are on iphone and they cost 1/2 to 1/3rd as much so that's not a stupid comparison

 

[otake]

This makes me want to see what Nintendo is doing after the DSI. I know it has its store but it still feels like a standard console, though I haven't played it so I'm only guessing from my impressions.

Now I fucking love the DS, but I'd like them to steal some more things from Apple handhelds. When will it happen?

don't expect anything like the app store from a japanese developer. good UI design with room to grow escapes them. Hell, they just discovered middleware this gen.

I only wish MS would partner with sony. let ms do the appstore, sony the hardware and we're gold.

 

[dojokun]

The DS did it right. Touch controls IN ADDITION to buttons, not IN PLACE OF buttons.

 

[TheSonicRetard]

I went out of my way to play iphone games because I wanted reasons to buy an Ipod touch. Whatever I played failed and they were supposedly awesome (according to my co-workers). maybe those games work for you, they don't work for me.

See, I don't disagree. I tried a lot of the games places like Penny-Arcade and GAF told me to try, and they just... didn't hold my interest. I dunno, maybe I can only play meatier games. But there are a few - talking 5 or 6 games - which do. I'd imagine you've given doom:R a chance, but if you haven't try it out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've only really been satisfied with like 5 of those 20,000 games :lol

But I'm a collector, and a consumer whore, so I don't really care.

 

[otake]

The DS did it right. Touch controls IN ADDITION to buttons, not IN PLACE OF buttons.

but no app store worth a damn and no internal storage + shitty as fuck tiny screen.

 

[peakish]

don't expect anything like the app store from a japanese developer. good UI design with room to grow escapes them. Hell, they just discovered middleware this gen.

I only wish MS would partner with sony. let ms do the appstore, sony the hardware and we're gold.

Yeah, I actually think I'll be very disappointed. Nintendo is too fucking stubborn when it comes to advances they aren't making themselves. Expect a strange gimmick instead.

Would be wonderful if they actually do something cool tho.

Edit: A real DS2 is one of the things in modern gaming I think I could be really excited about. Even if I'm afraid it'll not be as good as its precessor.

 

[Davidion]

but no app store worth a damn and no internal storage + shitty as fuck tiny screen.

That's where the DSI comes in, from Nintendo's perspective anyhow.

It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the market reacts with their own DD solutions.

 

[otake]

See, I don't disagree. I tried a lot of the games places like Penny-Arcade and GAF told me to try, and they just... didn't hold my interest. I dunno, maybe I can only play meatier games. But there are a few - talking 5 or 6 games - which do. I'd imagine you've given doom:R a chance, but if you haven't try it out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've only really been satisfied with like 5 of those 20,000 games :lol

But I'm a collector, and a consumer whore, so I don't really care.

I haven't tried Doom. I see if a friend has though I don't look forward to tilt controls in an fps. We'll see. I'll reply if I play it.

 

[soco]

What kind of games do you like on other platforms?

just about anything. when it comes to portables, my library is skewed towards RPGs. if there are quality platformers like NSMB, sure

it's not that their impossible to do there or anything, just that it's probably difficult for companies to make back their money with the amount of polish and hte price limit.

 

[GreyMatter]

Gaming uses buttons, but buttons aren't gaming.

The DS has already proven this. I've been waiting for a wave of adventure and rhythm games like Hotel Dusk and Rhythm Heaven to see what the iPlatform can really do.

Just because it's a different experience doesn't make it irrelevant competition. Do you guys realize how inaccessible games are when you play on a dedicated device like the PSP? It gets fucking cumbersome. And I LIKE my PSP.

Apple getting on the gaming stage can take us in some good places. Maybe some devs will pull their heads out of their asses and stop trying to shoehorn console experiences onto every device imaginable in favor of doing something original when they realize FPS R&D for the iPhone isn't the way to go.

 

[SmallTimeLeon]

... this is not reflected in the reality of how the devices are selling or how apps are selling. It's fine if you feel like the platform is junk, it's fine if you feel like people shouldn't want to play dem shitty iphone games--but when you say "This isn't working for Apple" when it clearly is, you're entering a reality free zone.

I think we're not seeing eye to eye, by "it isn't working for Apple" I mean that exactly. It's not sparking rampant interest in gaming websites/forums over the internet.

Case in point, that new Metal Gear Solid 4 game on the IPod wasn't even reviewed by mainstream media like GameTrailers and the-like.

I don't think it's fair for you to build a strawman, I don't think Ipod games are shitty or that people are silly for buying it. All I said as a viable gaming solution, for the avid gamer, it just doesn't cut it compare to the DS and the jack of all trades, PSP.

 

[vesp]

For me, theres about 1/3-1/2 the "must play" titles for the App store as for the ds/psp. There probably is a Wii like ratio of shit to playable games, perhaps even worse. All that being said, those 10-15 games that I really do like + another 10-15 utility apps I use all the time+ fantastic web browser + fantastic media playback + gps + my phone makes it the best device I have ever used, and I very, very rarely play my DS and PSP anymore because the stuff on the phone is very much good enough to pass time on a bus or train and if I'm at home I'm generally going to play ps3/360/PC games.

I pretty much pick up the great rpgs (and scribblenauts will get played) on the DS/PSP now and play them in bed for a bit before going to sleep, but thats all the play they really get now even if their individual games are sometimes of a higher quality. It's just not worth cramming another device in my pocket (which isnt even really possible with the psp) when I have all the previously mentioned stuff in my pocket already since I'm always going to be carrying my phone.

 

[otake]

That's where the DSI comes in, from Nintendo's perspective anyhow.

It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the market reacts with their own DD solutions.

exactly, the fucking DSI. You just proved my point. You will get nothing like the app store or the ipod touch from nintendo.

just half ass shit that looks pleasant.

 

[corpserot]

If I wanna game on the run, why carry an extra device? If I am at home, why play a handheld when I can play a PS3/360?

That said, Apple did make themselves look pretty dumb to gamers but the market they are going for isn't going to know/care about the quality of most App Store games.

 

[TheSonicRetard]

I will say this, however - as a mobile device, the iphone shits all over the PSP and DS. The webbrowser on the iphone is ridiculously fucking good, to the point where I use it at times over my netbook when I'm on the couch.

I think the iphone is an awesome device. It's more of a UMC than a iphone. But as a games machine it's got a long way to go, outside of a few awesome games.

I haven't tried Doom. I see if a friend has though I don't look forward to tilt controls in an fps. We'll see. I'll reply if I play it.

Doom isn't an FPS, by the way. It's a rail-shooter, like house of the dead overkill.

 

[cws]

exactly, the fucking DSI. You just proved my point. You will get nothing like the app store or the ipod touch from nintendo.

Why would they need a Store where they would have to sell their games for 5 bucks when they are selling +10 million 30-40 bucks retail games like pokemon, zelda and co ?

 

[otake]

I will say this, however - as a mobile device, the iphone shits all over the PSP and DS. The webbrowser on the iphone is ridiculously fucking good, to the point where I use it at times over my netbook when I'm on the couch.

I think the iphone is an awesome device. It's more of a UMC than a iphone. But as a games machine it's got a long way to go, outside of a few awesome games.



Doom isn't an FPS, by the way. It's a rail-shooter, like house of the dead overkill.

I agree a 100% on the mobile device part. It's even awesome from an IT infrastructure side. Configuring iphones to work with mailservers like postfix is easy and reliable. It's a pretty good smart phone.