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Apple Voted Largest Influence On Gaming Industry
- Thread starter CyReN
- Start date
You've got to be kidding, unless things are VASTLY different on iOS as compared to Android I really have to disagree with you on "real games" being available. Everything I have found, and believe me I have looked, is shallow and trite. Even the best games are only marginally better than can be found via flash gaming on the PC.
For all it's worth.. I think this is actually true. Not by a large margin, but I think Apple has introduced, for better or worse, a lot of things into the industry or at least made them much more popular.
For one, Apple has made IAP (in-app purchase) a very common thing. You can now get DLC without even leaving your game. They have also made cheap games ($.99) standard.
Like it or not, they've changed the gaming landscape during the last few years. They didn't get rid of what's already there though, they just introduced new possibilities.
Again, some might not like it (I'm not the biggest fan of getting rich out of a game that took someone a couple hours to make), but it's there..
For one, Apple has made IAP (in-app purchase) a very common thing. You can now get DLC without even leaving your game. They have also made cheap games ($.99) standard.
Like it or not, they've changed the gaming landscape during the last few years. They didn't get rid of what's already there though, they just introduced new possibilities.
Again, some might not like it (I'm not the biggest fan of getting rich out of a game that took someone a couple hours to make), but it's there..
Pureauthor
Member
This is a grossly premature statement to make, even if it somehow ends up being true in the future.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I hate to say it, but the real visionary at Nintendo was Yamauchi. It was his decision to create Nintendo R&D4 (now known as EAD), a studio specifically designed to make deeper, hardcore experiences on Famicom.Michan said:
Yamauchi basically willed the first epic games like Mario and Zelda into existence with a decision. It was no accident. I wouldn't even call it "lightning in a bottle". If he hadn't gotten Miyamoto, he would have gotten someone else who would have done it.
Opiate said:
Isn't this the highest selling console generation?
As for handhelds, grouping up DS, PSP and Apple devices might be unwise. It seems to me that things are moving towards where they have been previously. Handhelds are very popular, consoles are too, dedicated gaming devices will remain exceedingly popular while devices like Iphone will be more popular for other non gaming related reasons although gaming related reasons would be a plus for them.
We will still have the dedicated gaming being played on gaming devices versus 'casual gaming' dynamic that has existed for a while now. While companies such as Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft will remain more influential at least for the part of gaming that is most important to people such as us. I doubt that you do, but does anyone foresseen Apple forcing dedicated gaming handheld devices to be unprofitable as some have? Because that seems highly unreasonable.
It just doesn't seem that things are moving as much to the direction of Apple as some might think although its platform are becoming more popular as far as gaming goes. Dedicated Gaming devices handheld or otherwise that are supported by companies like Nintendo and Sony that can bring to this consoles franchises like God of War, Pokemon and so on (and can create more high profile franchises or have enticing products to attract third party high profile franchises seem to me to be not only the past, the present but also the future.
Apple is wealthy enough that if it wants to do a Microsoft it might be able to do so but as are things right now with its iphones I don't see things going their way.
Pureauthor
Member
Reuenthal said:
It's not growing nearly as fast as all the other avenues of gaming, so yes, from that standpoint it is (relatively) stagnant.
Edit: Also, a whole lot of that console growth was fueled by a market sector that has likely since moved to Facebook and iOS for their gaming wants.
TaroYamada
Member
Sega, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, SNK and NEC all have had more influence over gaming than Apple has. This is a joke.
milsorgen said:
Android has a great number of games that are very complex and easily best most console games for complexity, if that's what you're interested in.
Battle for Mars, Go, Crusaders, and Chess are four obvious examples. You don't even have to look hard for those. I also thoroughly enjoyed European War.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Yea but thats not every console like you imply. Overall consoles in the last decade tremendously outweigh portables, and the console market is healthier than its ever been.Opiate said:
And again why would you even try to include apple or android devices when, im sure less than 5% primarily use those for games
PinkCrayon
Member
i don't... i just... this is so stupid. not to say apple has had 0 impact, but it's not a very big one and it's a very recent one. people like john carmack have had much bigger impacts. hell, even people like ken levine and suda 51 have had bigger impacts than steve jobs. and as far as companies go, the big three along with sega, atari, ect have had such a larger impact than apple i can't even begin to desc....
whatever.
*shakes head*
edit: industry professionals my ass.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Yeah I guess I'm just getting too old for this shit.
iamshadowlark
Banned
You can't be serious?.Pureauthor said:
MisterHero
Super Member
Let's make more sense of it with the monetary ramifications, because I really believe it's more about money rather than growing the industry.Opiate said:
Moving away from
-higher production values and cost, which don't provide as much returns as multi-player experiences with proportionally larger userbases if/when the game finds an audience
Moving towards
-DLC and and possibly infinite microtransactions
-growing userbases with free games but generate advertisement revenue
-being able to port the game to as many platforms as possible
_____________________
Speaking of what "Jobs might've influenced in gaming", we should break down whatever those might be.
-Products sold over network
Nintendo had Famicom Disk games sold at download stations and the Super Famicom Satellaview service, Sega had Sega Channel, and Nintendo was also researching network sales since NES and even N64
-Developer tools for mass market
PC games have mod communities and Mod tools forever, and I don't think Apple themselves have released anything to make game modding, or even game development. I understand that various media creation software for making art or sound/music assets were optimized for (or only work for) Apple computers, but that couldn't be what they were "influencial" for, right? PCs are arguably less proprietary and can cover many, if not all, the same content creation functions.
-Easier to publish for small developers?
Again this goes somewhat hand-in-hand with the "Sales over network". Nintendo's N64 Disk Drive was even toying with the idea of sharing player/developer creations with the Mario Artist series. But this was also in a time when the technology was expensive. Now, while Nintendo is working to preserve the traditional developer/publisher model, MS and Sony are providing (or will provide) tools for small developers looking to publish on their networks. Is iTunes distributing as many, and as large a variety and quality, of games as Steam, XBL, PSN, services like Gametap, Onlive, or even VC/Wiiware? Does iTunes provide the focus on games that is almost instantaneous with the mentioned gaming specialty services?
-Fashionable appeal of products?
Play-it-Loud (1995) Gameboys and GB Pocket were released well ahead of the original iMac and its color line (1998). The later colored N64s did resemble iMac colors, but the N64 controllers from launch borrowed the Play-it-Loud scheme. Apple were clearly not the only ones considering the aesthetic value of their products.
The point I'm trying to make isn't that "Nintendo/X Company did Y first" but that such ideas that Apple's being given credit for were coming from other avenues that weren't directly tied with Apple.
Anyways, sorry for the long post. D:
But with Miyamoto, the artist Yamauchi assigned to make Donkey Kong, he wouldn't have Donkey Kong as it exists. DK was one of the first games to feature stories and to be known for their art direction (Miyamoto's contribution to Yokoi's programming) . Even in the arcade, it already was one of the "deeper" experiences.BocoDragon said:
But yeah, both legends Miyamoto and Yokoi were guided by his business philosophies
You clearly don't know what you are talking about (trust me I'm an expert).milsorgen said:
Apple put a desirable platform in millions of hands that happens to play games. If they slightly did anything to support it as a game platform they would deserve this.
iOS gaming thrives despite Apple's lame attemps at normalizing it (Game Center, iCloud saves).
Wouldn't that make games that rely mostly on mechanics the superior "form" of gaming? I mean, it's hilarious for some of GAF to think that things like Angry Birds, Bejeweled, Chess or Checkers are hardcore enough. Certainly not the best examples, but I think we have to realize that not everyone is going to go for that "movie-like experience" game you'd get on a home console, so it's much easier (and generally cheaper) to get a game you can play every so often and only need to understand the mechanics of and eventually master.Opiate said:
Porting an existing board or card game has always seemed to do well, so the market is there for people who enjoy those (but now can play it multiplayer over the internet).
Maybe that's why the big AAA-titles we get every year attract alot of media attention but something like Angry Birds or a facebook game get more people actually play it, is because that is their notion of a game (pure and simple in many ways), rather than what might amount to an interactive movie (could apply to almost any AAA-home console game) in that they reason it's not worth 50-60$ for a "movie" game, when they can get Bejeweled for alot less that'll last much longer. This is working on the assumption, of course that they don't care about multiplayer in CoD/Halo/etc. rather than multiplayer say for M:TG, Chess, or Carcassone or Mafia Wars or whatever.
Pureauthor
Member
iamshadowlark said:
Wii. 'Casual' games with the focus on simply picking up and playing.
And a dedicated console will never be able to be as pick-up-and-play as games on an iPhone or on your computer.
iamshadowlark said:
I'm sorry? Yes it is. The DS and PSP have outsold the PS3, 360, and Wii combined. I even gave specific figures.
Outweigh in what sense? Again, portables have outsold handhelds in that time frame. The overall market share of consoles has been profoundly reduced -- consoles have lost 50% of their total gaming marketshare in the last decade, according to EA. That means console marketshare by revenue has been cut in half.
That's highly debatable. In some ways, this is correct (for example, revenue this generation will be higher), while in others, it is clearly wrong (profit is way, way down, and we may actually see a net loss for third parties this generation). EA, for example, has closed significant sections of their console software teams (Pandemic being an obvious example, but they also downsized many studios like Blackbox and cut a total of ~3,000 jobs) while significantly beefing up their presence in social media (by buying companies like Popcap and Playfish).
Because iOS is a huge market? iOS/Android revenue was nearly one billion dollars last year, far bigger than the PSP, for example. I'm being rather generous by not including them.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm gonna disagree again:MisterHero said:
Before Donkey Kong, Nintendo and Yamauchi had already decided to negotiate for the rights to Popeye and create cartoon action games. Miyamoto was early on assigned to create games with Popeye characters, and when the deal fell through, only then did Miyamoto create his own cartoon game Donkey Kong.
Seems to me like Yamauchi decided to make "Disney-like" cartoon games as a business plan, and Miyamoto eventually delivered, but it could have been someone else put in that position.
neostapler
Member
Gamestop hasn't asked me to preorder an iOS game yet, so this can't be true
iamshadowlark
Banned
Honestly thats a bit overated. Wii sports being the exception, the vast majority of sales on the Wii are the traditional games.Pureauthor said:
Also MW is probably the most popular brand in gaming today and while its far from being hard, its far from being pickup and play either.
MisterHero
Super Member
Of course, but that might've only meant the hypothetical Popeye game would've had the cutscenes and art direction that were in Donkey Kong, but with Popeye characters.BocoDragon said:
You can't be suggesting that the Popeye game would've been as successful without those elements which put itself over other arcade games.
The gameplay is defined by the collaboration between Miyamoto and Yokoi (Miyamoto would ask if X idea could be programmed, and vice versa with Yokoi). It wouldn't even have been the same game, functionally.
MadraptorMan
Member
This is BS. Biggest influence on indie developers? Maybe...but the whole industry? Hell no.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
This generation? I'd say Nintendo and Apple are about tied. Apple really managed to tap into the flash game industry and monetize it, which will allow a lot of microtransactions in the future to be gaming related.
Nintendo brought touch screen gaming to the mainstream (and then Apple enhanced that with the iPhone, using finger touches instead of the stylus for a more direct interaction), and brought motion control, which has since been used by all of the big 3. Kinect seems to be the next phase of the motion controlled gaming experience.
Nintendo brought touch screen gaming to the mainstream (and then Apple enhanced that with the iPhone, using finger touches instead of the stylus for a more direct interaction), and brought motion control, which has since been used by all of the big 3. Kinect seems to be the next phase of the motion controlled gaming experience.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Opiate said:
A decade is ten years. The last decade starts at 2001. Console sales from 2001 till today vastly outnumber the portable sales in the same period. Maybe you are only trying to count the consoles from this gen. But thats not what you said, and even still a console is a console.
See above.Opiate said:
Opiate said:
Your latter point doesn't really mean much in the scope of this conversation. Games like MW are literally selling at a records pace, with a even higher barrier for entry at $60.
Yea but for what you described to happen, there would have to be a significant shift of preference,which hasn't been shown at all. More consoles are selling than ever and console games are still healthy as they ever been. The ios/android sector is simply an alternate market with a broadening targetbase. They most likely will coexist. Not to say that the console market won't evolve past today's practices though.Opiate said:
Opiate said:
Highest selling generation ever != Stagnant. Its either growing or its stagnant, those are nearly opposite terms. Its pace of growth is being outpaced by the growth of portable gaming perhaps?
But thats really not the point. Fact is, this is about overall influence in the industry. Apple doesnt take spot 1. Nevermind all the other stuff.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Without Miyamoto, I don't think we'd have Donkey Kong, but I do know that Nintendo would still have gone on to make cartoon action games with a vague storyline. Maybe that business decision alone is what set the world on fire in 1981... not the game design specifically.MisterHero said:
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Opiate said:
but alot of those games are just so....not good. Is push button to win, and then come back in 9 hours to do it again what we really want? Sometimes I really think it is better to tell people what to think...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yes, but you missed Opiate's point. Its not that consoles aren't doing well, its that all the other plartforms for gaming are growing a lot faster. Not just in numbers, but in mindshare. Phone gaming may not have made a lot of money, but its changed how people think about gaming.Reuenthal said:
ZombieSupaStar
Member
The_Technomancer said:
but is it more people buying more games, or just an obscene amount of people buying/playing 1 copy of farmville/angry birds