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[Divvy]

When did the contract end exactly? How did it line up with their release schedule? What sort of requirements were present in that final year, and did any of it conflict with what Apple was trying to deliver to its customers? How did Google voice its displeasure regarding the current agreement with respect to branding and advertisements? Is that all they wanted?

None of that matters, you're the one who argued over who terminated their relationship when it was clearly Apple.

Then everyone would be screaming about what a kludgy implementation of turn-by-turn Apple produced. Might not have been a big of a story as the current maps fiasco, but that doesn't seem like a good solution either.

You might be right. I just think that that would have been a solution that provided a net benefit to every user.

Seriously. Anything Apple does wrong is hoisted up and displayed with great fanfare.

Samsung's little problem with phones being able to be wiped by visiting a webpage or scanning a QR code? If that had been Apple it would have been front-page news, and the torches and pitchforks would have come out.

This is a strange equivalence to draw, as one was willful and one was not. If that vulnerability was put there on purpose, you don't think there would be a shitstorm?

Could they? We know they weren't allowed to use the Google maps data for turn by turn, that much is on the record. The app you are describing would need the Google Maps data to hand off to the turn by turn app. I'm willing to bet that's a violation of the contract.

What you would end up with is a separate app that's completely cut off from the Maps app. That's assuming they were even allowed to build an app at all under the terms. No one knows the details of that contract.

Why would Apple have fought so hard to add turn by turn using Google's data in the past if the answer is as simple as building a separate app?

That's true, you might be right about that. The Verge article stated that Apple was happy with the new maps and didn't expect the backlash so perhaps they actually believed this was in the best interests of everyone.

 

[qizah]

Good on them for admitting they fucked up.

Also, lol at them saying use Bing or Google Maps -- seems like it'd be really hard for Apple to say use alternatives.

 

[LCfiner]

Is Apple blocking the Google Maps app?

Google has not yet submitted an app.

 

[scorcho]

Umm, no. There is no gmaps on iOS anymore, so that correction wouldn't make sense. Not to mention his post said 'how did'. ;b

If you want to be stupidly pedantic on this, there's never been gmaps on iOS. it's always been Maps, and still is. And both have always and still continue to suck compared to the Android version.

 

[dream]

While I can see it happening too, Apple sherlocking developers of transit apps seems like it would be particularly cruel.

 

[KHarvey16]

None of that matters, you're the one who argued over who terminated their relationship when it was clearly Apple.

I told someone to show me why he knew it was Apple. Then I explained why that didn't support the notion Apple did it to spite Google or because they wanted to screw them.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Surprisingly enough the new maps has been pretty solid for me in NYC.

Literally the first address I tried was wrong. As noted above it also seems to have issues figuring out which borough I'm looking in. And of course the POIs are fewer and farther between.

That said, the street grid itself seems fine so far.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Oh man, my sympathies. I can't imagine trying to use it in NYC.

Fortunately NYC is easy to navigate, but it is still annoying since we have come to rely on the convenience of a good mapping app!

The bigger problem is the total lack of Subway routes, that has to piss off so many people in NYC..

 

[Cheebo]

While I can see it happening too, Apple sherlocking developers of transit apps seems like it would be particularly cruel.

Sherlocking doesn't mean blocking a app or software. It refers to when Apple goes and does it themselves. Apple is never going to block competing software. They allow Chrome and Gmail etc apps. That clause was axed in the App store very shortly after it went live.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Are you serious? There is no way you can say that with a straight face. iPhone 5 is going to sell a hell of a lot more than iPhone 4S just like 4S sold a ton more than iPhone 4.

Where did I say the iPhone 5 will sell like shit? The brand perception has reached it's peak though, thats all, and now the only way is down. Sales will probably yet increase, but theres blood in the water these days and a market that seemed entirely Apple's to dominate is no longer their personal easy-street playground.

Competition is good for all of us, so as soon as the US sorts out its absolute circus freakshow of a patent system we can all march on a little faster towards better tech and better software.

 

[MajorPain]

I refuse to update to ios 6 until there's an actual Googlemaps app.

you can just use maps.google.com in the browser.

 

[scorcho]

Fortunately NYC is easy to navigate, but it is still annoying since we have come to rely on the convenience of a good mapping app!

The bigger problem is the total lack of Subway routes, that has to piss off so many people in NYC..

Use Embark, it's free and more helpful than the old built-in version.

 

[Cheebo]

Where did I say the iPhone 5 will sell like shit? The brand perception has reached it's peak though, thats all, and now the only way is down. Sales will probably yet increase, but theres blood in the water these days and a market that seemed entirely Apple's to dominate is no longer their personal easy-street playground.

Competition is good for all of us, so as soon as the US sorts out its absolute circus freakshow of a patent system we can all march on a little faster towards better tech and better software.

If they hit their peak why will sales continue to increase?

 

[LyleLanley]

Fortunately NYC is easy to navigate, but it is still annoying since we have come to rely on the convenience of a good mapping app!

The bigger problem is the total lack of Subway routes, that has to piss off so many people in NYC..

As I mentioned in a previous post, if you're in New York download the Embark app. It has great subway directions, it integrates into iOS 6 maps, it works offline and it's free.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/embark-nyc-subway-new-york/id450991137?mt=8

 

[evil ways]

Just let Google realease their godly maps app, approve it and I'll let bygones be bygones.

 

[Cheebo]

Just let Google realease their godly maps app, approve it and I'll let bygones be bygones.

There is literally 0% chance they would block it. They don't block competing software. If Google makes the app it will be approved.

 

[andycapps]

I wonder if part of the problem with Google Maps coming is that Apple wanted it with turn by turn, and Google probably didn't want that as it would have to use Siri. Siri is something associated with Apple and probably didn't sit well with Google.

 

[Tobor]

I wonder if part of the problem with Google Maps coming is that Apple wanted it with turn by turn, and Google probably didn't want that as it would have to use Siri. Siri is something associated with Apple and probably didn't sit well with Google.

I'd say that's a very safe assumption.

 

[Technosteve]

this has been a strange week, i subjected myself to reading the comments over at the popular technology blogs and i have to say I understand Apple users being angry, I understand Android users being smug, I don't understand straight up Apple haters. This is their Christmas.

It's easier to ask forgiveness then permission.

 

[Timedog]

paying for potential

 

[diehard]

It's just fortunate that i don't go anywhere.

lol at you people who have lives.

 

[Sapiens]

Good on them for admitting they fucked up.

Also, lol at them saying use Bing or Google Maps -- seems like it'd be really hard for Apple to say use alternatives.

All Apple cares about is selling the hardware - but you need the good software to do it. There is strength in stating that there are alternatives from competitors, but at the end of the day, it does damaged the brand.

The big issue right now is that customers are left on the hook deciding what transit apps to buy, where a month ago, it was built in.

The transit app vultures, charging monthly, have swooped in and customers have no idea which is the best option for their location.


VERY FRUSTRATING.

But people who suggest that Apple is on the decline have no memory of the company's history. Apple is notorious for releasing half finished software and letting the user put up with it until they decide to improve it. Whereas in OS X, the customer has freedom to set default apps, on iOS it is not possible and anti-choice, IMO. But at the end of the day, iOS devices are still premium and I would interpret any negativity about their status and sour grapes (for whatever reason).

 

[The Chef]

He mentions 3rd party apps? Whoa.

This blew my mind.

 

[Blackhead]

Sherlocking doesn't mean blocking a app or software. It refers to when Apple goes and does it themselves. Apple is never going to block competing software. They allow Chrome and Gmail etc apps. That clause was axed in the App store very shortly after it went live.

There is literally 0% chance they would block it. They don't block competing software. If Google makes the app it will be approved.

WTF are you talking about? Google Voice was in limbo for months. Apple still won't let any company put a competing browser rending engine on their iOS; Firefox isn't available yet.

If they hit their peak why will sales continue to increase?

Just like Windows sales continue to increase amirite or am i right.

*smh*

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I've tried 5 searches in my city, Maps has yet to return a success.

Living in Barcelona, I'm flabbergasted.

How can the largest technology company in the world fuck up such a basic feature?

Pure hubris.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I wonder if part of the problem with Google Maps coming is that Apple wanted it with turn by turn, and Google probably didn't want that as it would have to use Siri. Siri is something associated with Apple and probably didn't sit well with Google.

I thought I read that Google would include turn by turn but wanted more Google branding or latitute in return?

 

[andycapps]

I'd say that's a very safe assumption.

Makes me wonder if we will ever see Google Maps with turn by turn on iOS. Doubt it, if that's the holdup.

I thought I read that Google would include turn by turn but wanted more Google branding or latitute in return?

That was probably part of it, Apple would have wanted it to just say Maps like it did and would have wanted it to use Siri for voice nav. Both would have been against what Google is wanting.

 

[Phanatic8390]

I wonder if part of the problem with Google Maps coming is that Apple wanted it with turn by turn, and Google probably didn't want that as it would have to use Siri. Siri is something associated with Apple and probably didn't sit well with Google.

I don't think Google was too keen on offering up a key advantage of their navigation on Android but I thought there was an article that mentioned Google may have been open to it if they were given more control over the app including adding Latitude and more branding that Apple declined.

 

[tfur]

BOOM! Thanks for going thermonuclear Steve!

When does the apology letter go out for #scuffgate?

 

[Divvy]

I told someone to show me why he knew it was Apple. Then I explained why that didn't support the notion Apple did it to spite Google or because they wanted to screw them.

Fair enough, if that was your issue. But your first couple of posts on this matter were questioning who was responsible for the split which was what I took issue with.

 

[Tobor]

Makes me wonder if we will ever see Google Maps with turn by turn on iOS. Doubt it, if that's the holdup.

They could do that, and Apple would have no grounds to stop them, since they allow other third party turn by turn apps.

 

[bro1]

It's a better move than Jobs would have done. Under Jobs, ping and MobileMe were never fixed nor were they publicly acknowledged failures. Cook killed ping and this will get fixed.

 

[LCfiner]

Makes me wonder if we will ever see Google Maps with turn by turn on iOS. Doubt it, if that's the holdup.

well, you could see it happen the same way navigon, tomtom, motionX GPS, etc do it.

It won't use siri but it could still work.

the question is whether google will integrate their own voice control backend (like in their search app on the store) into their maps app. that would be pretty nuts.

 

[metalslimer]

Are we really supposed to feel sorry for the most valuable company in the world in all this?

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Steve Jobs would be ashamed.

Tim Cook should have personally tell me people they're wrong.

 

[Tobor]

It's a better move than Jobs would have done. Under Jobs, ping and MobileMe were never fixed nor were they publicly acknowledged failures. Cook killed ping and this will get fixed.

Jobs admitted Mobile Me was a failure on stage.

 

[bro1]

Are we really supposed to feel sorry for the most valuable company in the world in all this?

No, and they aren't asking you to.

 

[bro1]

Jobs admitted Mobile Me was a failure on stage.

I thought that was in the bio only.

 

[Betta Lines]

Is this a possible scenario?

- they were well aware of the scale of the problem
- they had done very solid estimations on how long it would take to address them
- they reached a conclusion that it was an insurmountable task to do it by themselves
- they realised that the longer they waited, the further ahead other services would get
- they decided it would be better to take the hit now, 'apologise', and use the feedback to fix inaccuracies much faster than they would have ever been able to do on their own

Apple is full of smart people. I very much doubt this was the 'mistake' that everyone is suggesting. I reckon they'd done the calculations, and deliberately launched it before it was ready, because getting it out there to collect usage data and feedback from everyone in the world was the most efficient way to get up to speed with Google.

 

[ghst]

Just let Google realease their godly maps app, approve it and I'll let bygones be bygones.

it still wouldn't be an integrated solution.

an actual apology would include an option to restore google maps as the default, as it has been for all other iOS versions.

 

[Blackhead]

They could do that, and Apple would have no grounds to stop them, since they allow other third party turn by turn apps.

When Apple blocked Google Voice from the App Store they also retroactively blocked other third party google voice clients that were already accepted into the store.


Now I don't think that Apple will block a Maps app if Google submitted one but there is no need to gloss over Apple's history or claim that the chance is 0%

 

[andycapps]

well, you could see it happen the same way navigon, tomtom, motionX GPS, etc do it.

It won't use siri but it could still work.

the question is whether google will integrate their own voice control backend (like in their search app on the store) into their maps app. that would be pretty nuts.

I think if Google Maps does come with turn by turn it has to have their own voice control backend.

 

[2MF]

Is this a possible scenario?

- they were well aware of the scale of the problem
- they had done very solid estimations on how long it would take to address them
- they reached a conclusion that it was an insurmountable task to do it by themselves
- they realised that the longer they waited, the further ahead other services would get
- they decided it would be better to take the hit now, 'apologise', and use the feedback to fix inaccuracies much faster than they would have ever been able to do on their own

Apple is full of smart people. I very much doubt this was the 'mistake' that everyone is suggesting. I reckon they'd done the calculations, and deliberately launched it before it was ready, because getting it out there to collect usage data and feedback from everyone in the world was the most efficient way to get up to speed with Google.

I am tempted to say it's plausible, but having to take a hit to their "it just works" reputation still seems like a very questionable decision...

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

The thing is, apple needs to get cars on the street just like google did.

Google pulls off tons of info out of those pictures, it's a neat gimmick/feature for us but its part of what makes gmaps so good.

 

[ScOULaris]

At Apple, we strive to make world-class products that deliver the best experience possible to our customers.

Oh, god. I can't...

 

[Tobor]

Is this a possible scenario?

- they were well aware of the scale of the problem
- they had done very solid estimations on how long it would take to address them
- they reached a conclusion that it was an insurmountable task to do it by themselves
- they realised that the longer they waited, the further ahead other services would get
- they decided it would be better to take the hit now, 'apologise', and use the feedback to fix inaccuracies much faster than they would have ever been able to do on their own

Apple is full of smart people. I very much doubt this was the 'mistake' that everyone is suggesting. I reckon they'd done the calculations, and deliberately launched it before it was ready, because getting it out there to collect usage data and feedback from everyone in the world was the most efficient way to get up to speed with Google.

This is my opinion as well. They took a calculated risk, one which we won't know the outcome of for a year or more.

 

[Zeppu]

Is this a possible scenario?

- they were well aware of the scale of the problem
- they had done very solid estimations on how long it would take to address them
- they reached a conclusion that it was an insurmountable task to do it by themselves
- they realised that the longer they waited, the further ahead other services would get
- they decided it would be better to take the hit now, 'apologise', and use the feedback to fix inaccuracies much faster than they would have ever been able to do on their own

Apple is full of smart people. I very much doubt this was the 'mistake' that everyone is suggesting. I reckon they'd done the calculations, and deliberately launched it before it was ready, because getting it out there to collect usage data and feedback from everyone in the world was the most efficient way to get up to speed with Google.

Release it as a beta product from the App Store and once downloaded it would integrate with Siri and would be the only one to be able to do so. People in the iOS beta thread were all over themselves trying the new Maps out, so you'd have the Apple core doing their best to improve it, with (while smaller/slower) the same results.

Following the stream of problems reveals fundamental flaws in iOS's design from a dev standpoint because it's probably not even possible to have app store downloads which work like core apps, and as far as i can tell they can't update core apps without an OS revision which is frankly an antique, monolithic way of developing software.

 

[Hellsing321]

At this point Apple needs to bite the bullet and beg/pay/whatever to get Google's map data back. It doesn't make sense to throw your own mapping service out there when it clearly isn't ready for primetime.

 

[mescalineeyes]

At this point Apple needs to bite the bullet and beg/pay/whatever to get Google's map data back. It doesn't make sense to throw your own mapping service out there when it clearly isn't ready for primetime.

A deal of this magnitude would probably take longer than fixing maps.

 

[qwerty2k]

At this point Apple needs to bite the bullet and beg/pay/whatever to get Google's map data back. It doesn't make sense to throw your own mapping service out there when it clearly isn't ready for primetime.

According to reports Apple had a year left on their contract....