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Ar Tonelico 2 - NISA brings us back to the dark age of localization?
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Edited, I glanced over that part.Tenks said:
Still, I maintain that AT2 is better than any N1 game I ever played (which is all of them that were released by NISA). It's also a big improvement over all previous Gust games, just like AT1 before it. If that puts me on your shit list then so be it
LiK said:
Honestly, here's what I did. It's a certain skill spoiler, so I'll tag it:
Get a powerful cosmosphere spell started and get Harmonics up ASAP so you can use Replakia. Bide time until right before the end of your last turn and let loose. Should go down if you have enough power in the Replakia skill.
I sold off most of the purchases I made of games localized by NISA. And I NEVER sell off games en-masse like that. I'm trying to remember the name of the PS2 game with the awful audio cut-outs. I think it was one of their earliest efforts. More Gust fodder.
rykomatsu
Member
LiK said:
you can also use one of the reyvateil spells..."Reset" switch or it might have been " eset" switch...i don't remember which does what...one resets the entire battle, the other one resets the damage you've taken (chance to proc) or your chars HP gets halved if the proc doesn't occur.
I have standards for what I can tolerate when it comes to games with tons of text, and it really bothers me that I can't get motivated to play AT2 simply because of the god-awful translation. I've tried, I really have, because it's fun to PLAY - but not fun at all to read. I can't justify playing something for 60 hours when I have to force myself not to care about what's going on because trying to read it is more confusing than the average episode of Lost.
lastendconductor
Put your snobby liquids into my mouth!
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that at least it's localized. I have yet to play it, but goddamn, it can't be that bad. At least we can play it.
And the game killing bug is a complicated matter. What do you want them to do, recall the game? I don't think that's financially realistic for a game like that.
But on the other hand, it's a good thing to bring awareness to this. Maybe they won't do such a shitty job on their next game.
And the game killing bug is a complicated matter. What do you want them to do, recall the game? I don't think that's financially realistic for a game like that.
But on the other hand, it's a good thing to bring awareness to this. Maybe they won't do such a shitty job on their next game.
They had a similar bug and shitty localization for the first game - so I'm guessing NISA just doesn't care for third party games - even if it's millions times better than their first party games.DKnight said:
EDIT: Hopefully Gust can score a better US publisher and localization next time - it seems they've matured as a development team as evidenced from the Mana Khemia and Ar Tonelico games.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
pancakesandsex said:
Wow...
pancakesandsex
Member
DKnight said:
It IS that bad, that's why this is an issue in the 1st place. Look at the slideshow I posted.
Yes, I'm very disappointed in the localization of this game. The dialogue is cringe worthy in parts.
The lack of spoken parts isn't too bad; I just pretend it's a PS1 RPG.
That bug is inexcusable. I really enjoy the battle system, and the graphics of this game.
Does anybody have an email address we can write them to and bitch?
We should dig this thread or get Kotaku to pick up on the story. We shouldn't stand for this. I guess we could email one of the editiors of Kotaku too.
The lack of spoken parts isn't too bad; I just pretend it's a PS1 RPG.
That bug is inexcusable. I really enjoy the battle system, and the graphics of this game.
Does anybody have an email address we can write them to and bitch?
We should dig this thread or get Kotaku to pick up on the story. We shouldn't stand for this. I guess we could email one of the editiors of Kotaku too.
SiegfriedFM
Member
Arde5643 said:
Bugs like that, appearing WAY late in the game, is something that 90% of reviewers would never even come across...
lastendconductor
Put your snobby liquids into my mouth!
Okay, I admit I don't understand what the fuck they're talking about there :lol , but I thought that was more of it being out of context and me not being a native English speaker (that's probably why I'm more resilient to bad translations). But if it's not really out of context (earth? is that the planet or a person? rearrange what?), it looks like something that Google Translate could spew :lolpancakesandsex said:
pancakesandsex
Member
DKnight said:
The arrangement thing is referring to her adding her own touch to an item recipe in an ancient book I gave her earlier. But that's not how anyone in their right mind would say it.
The "eco weapon" scene sounds like a bunch of badly translated puns.
I KNOW what they are talking about, even though I shouldn't, but that's not the point. Y'know?
Most of the reviews acknowledge the bug (and the localization "quality") and are still that positive. The game really is that good, that's why the treatment NISA gave it is such an abomination.SiegfriedFM said:
DKnight, the randomness of that conversation is mostly due to Cynthias' character. The translation isn't good, but the meaning is still easy to understand in conversations with "normal" people. (With the notable exception of IPD therapy -- probably because those sentences are generated automatically -- but that's more of a gameplay system than a story vehicle. One other instance where the translation really is particularly weak are puns in conversations that are not voiced parts of the main story.)
Agreed. If I had the choice I'd want XSEED to pick up AT3 should it happen.Arde5643 said:
Riskbreaker23
Member
i bought this before i heard about all the bugs. while the game is still playable, i doubt i will ever buy a game from NISA again
pancakesandsex
Member
Durante said:
It's not due to her character you apologist twat. She's VERY obviously making puns and jokes that only make sense in Japanese. Thats not "her character", that's a bad translation. Had NISA done their jobs the puns would make sense in English, the language it was supposedly LOCALIZED to.
Schopenhauer
Member
Riskbreaker23 said:
I had actually opened the box to check out the artbook and the OST so I wasn't able to return my copy. I am waiting till after the bitterness of these events wear off before I start playing so that I can actually enjoy the game once I do start playing.
NISA has pretty much been relegated to rent only at this point. Eh, honestly I don't even like the N1 games all that much, so I guess I am pretty much done with the company.
The most irritating part about all this is that NIS keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. I remember after the Rhapsody DS fiasco, folks on their forum were like "Please don't fuck up Ar Tonelico 2." Good job! It especially irks me because I pre-ordered AT2 after that, too, thinking NIS would get it right. They fooled me twice...shame on me. I'll give them another shot with Cross Edge. If they mess that up, I'm done with NIS. Premium boxes and soundtracks are nice, but I'd rather them put that money into better Q&A instead.
I haven't encountered the glitches myself, but man, a lot of the text is poorly written. It's especially obvious after playing RPGs with top notch localizations like P4.
I haven't encountered the glitches myself, but man, a lot of the text is poorly written. It's especially obvious after playing RPGs with top notch localizations like P4.
How nice of you to start with personal insults. That always shows superiority of argument and character.pancakesandsex said:
It absolutely is her character to (a) have nonsensical ideas and (b) jump from one non sequitur to the next. That, combined with the bad translations, makes conversations with her much harder to understand than with any other characters in the game (except for what I mentioned earlier). Please read all my posts in this thread again if you think I ever claimed something else (like "the localization is good").
PataHikari
Banned
Mejilan said:
Eh?
Two game's they've messed on is "par for the course?"
And if you think their fantastic SRPGs are "mediocre" then you need better taste.
BlazingDarkness
Member
NolbertoS said:
Why did you buy them?
Not really needed - but AT2 is a better experience than AT1.NolbertoS said:
So if you're thinking of playing both, then yeah, play AT1 first.
Disgaea 1 is pretty decent, although not up my alley.PataHikari said:
I'm basing my "worthless" rank on my experiences with Disgaea 2, Phantom Brave, Makai Kingdom, and La Pucelle.
These four games are a big waste of money for me since I can't even be bothered to play the game after a few hours with them.
So yes, I believe Disgaea 1 was the exception to the norm of their usual "worthless" SRPGs.
Some people are making way too big a deal on the game-crashing bug. The boss in question is one of the very last bosses, so even if you can't beat her fast enough to avoid the bug, just watch the ending on YouTube. Plus a new method has been discovered to avoid the bug even more easily.
As for the optional boss fight, I would have no interest in fighting the same boss 15 times in a row just to unlock some pictures.
As for the optional boss fight, I would have no interest in fighting the same boss 15 times in a row just to unlock some pictures.
TheCardPlayer
Likes to have "friends" around to "play cards" with
The game is fuck awesome and could very well be the best JRPG on the system, even ahead of Persona 4.
And the dialogue usually makes perfect sense. I hate how people take screenshots of the only place where there is a somewhat bad translation and harp on it without even playing the damn thing. But yeah, it's shit full of typos though.
But the glitch is simply unexcusable. What a crock of shit.
And the dialogue usually makes perfect sense. I hate how people take screenshots of the only place where there is a somewhat bad translation and harp on it without even playing the damn thing. But yeah, it's shit full of typos though.
But the glitch is simply unexcusable. What a crock of shit.
65% of the voice acting was cut from the game. Both tracks have the same lines voiced. There's only enough room on the disc to fit a complete track in one language.duckroll said:
As for the bugs, I reiterate from the AT2 thread: They went out of their way to fix the RQ GrimGrimoire preorder bonus soundtrack...but they won't recall a game, the main product?
But I'm not really sure fixing the bugs is really enough. I can play the fanmade bugfix, but the writing quality continues to repel me. Even AT1's localization wasn't particularly great, but it was serviceable enough and never, ever, reaches the same lows as this one's. I have no idea why Gust games in general get the shaft from NISA. All of their in-house titles get excellent treatment.
The game was also budget priced at $40 and packaged with bonus stuff. With the limited appeal, the margins are probably very thin already. I'd think the base that cares about this game in the first place would've been willing to pony up $50 for a proper localization, and live without the soundtrack in the box or something. I would've. I just remembered that Working Designs used to get away with selling their games in premium packages for $70 or $80 back in the day, and the fans ate them up. Not that I'm suggesting AT2's pack is quite in the same league...
Anyway, I was pretty pissed with how this game turned out, as I was really looking forward to it. I've spent over a thousand bucks on NISA's online shops as a loyal fan to support them as directly as possible since they opened up. I bought up nearly all of their in-house and Gust releases (stayed away from Idea Factory), and quite a few of their game-related goods. I think I'll be spending a lot less there in the future.
And to reiterate again, most of us complaining here probably won't make too much of a fuss if the game was pretty mediocre.
But it's not, in fact it's one of the best JRPGs this year.
So right now NISA's treatment of the game feels much like if Atlus had decided to cut off 65% voice-acting from Persona 4, do shoddy translations so that players sometimes have to guess the meaning, and decided to give a game-crashing bug near the end of the game.
You surely can understand our grievances with NISA.
PS: Seriously, even "spoony bard" is a much better job than what NISA did to this awesome game.
But it's not, in fact it's one of the best JRPGs this year.
So right now NISA's treatment of the game feels much like if Atlus had decided to cut off 65% voice-acting from Persona 4, do shoddy translations so that players sometimes have to guess the meaning, and decided to give a game-crashing bug near the end of the game.
You surely can understand our grievances with NISA.
PS: Seriously, even "spoony bard" is a much better job than what NISA did to this awesome game.
PataHikari
Banned
It takes one mistake and GAF suddenly hates NIS.
Let's hope Atlus never does this.
Let's hope Atlus never does this.
Eh, I'm just not a big fan of the Ar Tenilico series and I defiantly don't think it is better than P4 (game is way too perverted), but this is unacceptable by any standard. You cannot CANNOT have a game crashing bug in a mandatory battle, especially the final one. And engrish like that....what? This is not a SNES RPG where bad translations were common, this is a PS2 RPG! I can understand cutting some of the spoken line, I can handle that, its not a huge deal, but this other crap, um no.
XSEED needs to expand some and take the Gust Projects.
Edit: For everyone saying "grind so you can beat the boss before bug" or "You can just watch the ending" that is not the point of a game. You are supposed to be able to beat it in the fashion the development team wanted it beaten. You should not have to grind to beat a bug. You can grind to beat a boss that is too hard, many games have that happen, but to have to do so because of a bug is something you would expect from a shoddily made rpgMaker 2000 game. And just watching then ending...how would you feel if ffvii had a bug in the final battle where it crashed?
XSEED needs to expand some and take the Gust Projects.
Edit: For everyone saying "grind so you can beat the boss before bug" or "You can just watch the ending" that is not the point of a game. You are supposed to be able to beat it in the fashion the development team wanted it beaten. You should not have to grind to beat a bug. You can grind to beat a boss that is too hard, many games have that happen, but to have to do so because of a bug is something you would expect from a shoddily made rpgMaker 2000 game. And just watching then ending...how would you feel if ffvii had a bug in the final battle where it crashed?
pancakesandsex
Member
Augemitbutter
Member
ugh, i despise shoddy work as this. isnt there some sort of quality control? im happy i didnt bite, and ill refrain from pre-ordering NIS stuff from now on.
my money is better spend elsewhere.
my money is better spend elsewhere.
pancakesandsex said:
There is a difference between making, bad game, making a stupid bug that makes you wonder but still lets you play the game, or totally breaking the final boss.
THIS breaks the game and NIS should be bashed HEAVILY for this, there is no way the company could have not noticed this. Also, that is not the only problems they have had with the game.
Pretty much this.Durante said:GAF suddenly hates NISA, and to be fair it was the second mistake in quick succession. On top of their treatment of previous Gust games. And most importantly it happened to the best game they ever had the honor of being allowed to localize
While I would usually agree with this and laugh with you at their expense, ryokomatsu seems to really like X-edge so I won't join in this time, so this game might actually be good ;PQuixzlizx said:
PataHikari
Banned
pancakesandsex said:
The problem is that people seem to suddenly hate NIS and all it's games. It's just so bloody sudden and stupid.
Augemitbutter said:
Uggg this game isn't indicative of NIS as a whole. Every company screws up, overall they're a very good company.
Why is it that good things pass by without notice, but one mess up and it's never forgotten...
You really are selectively choosing your facts, ain't you?PataHikari said:
They've also messed up with their other 3rd party games, including guess what? Ar Tonelico 1.
Yes, that's right - they screwed up the 1st Ar Tonelico game and proceeded to screw up the 2nd game.
Basically, at this point, we cannot trust NISA with localizing any of their 3rd party games because it's been shown from past facts, that they don't give a crud on localizing some 3rd party games.
PataHikari
Banned
Arde5643 said:
No I'm paying attention to all of them instead of these two recent mess ups. I'm not saying they didn't screw up on Raphsody or AT2, I'm saying this dosn't make the company suck all of a sudden.
And how'd they mess of AT1?