This thread needs more SEGA arcade racers
No, people are blowing 30fps in a racing game out of proportion.
That said, stylized arcade racers, like from real arcades, are becoming extinct.
90s Arcade Racer is coming out next year, looks like a current gen Dreamcast game
Yes.
Because having a realistic looking rain is more important than smooth frame rate, thus lower input lag, better control and sense of speed. In a racing game.
Also, too bad that this awesome looking effect loses much of its appeal thanks to the stuttering frame rate.
Show me where, in my posts, I have qualified the degree by which 30 fps vs 60 fps affects the gameplay. Where, in my posts, did I blow anything out of proportion? What I said is absolutely true - 30 fps games don't play as well as 60 fps games. Whether or not that change is game breaking or whatever is up to the player - I made no claims about how big of a change it is. Merely that it is a detriment. You cannot deny that.
In your fervor to defend drive club, you have imagined arguments I never made.
Krejlooc said:What I said is absolutely true - 30 fps games don't play as well as 60 fps games.
Krejlooc said:What I said is absolutely true - 30 fps games don't play as well as 60 fps games.
Krejlooc said:What I said is absolutely true - 30 fps games don't play as well as 60 fps games.
Krejlooc said:enzo_gt
"Graphics over gameplay" is an inherently bullshit notion in a visual mediums and probably the ultimate false dichotomy, and stems from a narrow-minded segregation of visuals from the control interaction.
No, in this instance, it's being used literally. They chose better graphics at the detriment of 60 fps gameplay. There is no segregation going on, considering my point of contention is that 60 fps visuals naturally affect the gameplay. I am affirming that gameplay and graphics go hand in hand - however in this instance they sacrificed a core component that affects gameplay for a superficial component of the graphics. Whatever visual effects they have that is reducing the framerate by half does not need to exist for weather simulation.
Yes.
Because having a realistic looking rain is more important than smooth frame rate, thus lower input lag, better control and sense of speed. In a racing game.
Also, too bad that this awesome looking effect loses much of its appeal thanks to the stuttering frame rate.
Oh, a backtracker I see. You just basically said in that post 30fps vs 60fps affects gameplay. Let me requote it for you. lol
30fps vs 60fps can only be compared within the same game. Yes a 60fps DC/FH2 would make it a better game
Then case closed.
Yes.
That's why most TVs come with "smooth motion" filters btw. Because many people notice the judder and want a smooth moving picture (artifacts ruin this sometimes though).
That argument doesn't make sense in the context of hardware limitations. They wouldn't be the same game if they were designed for 60fps.
Yes, what I said is true. You deny that 30 fps games play worse than 60 fps games? LOL if so.
You came at me saying I was "blowing this out of proportion." I never made a proportional argument. My claim was that 60 fps games play better. That's not opinion. Whether or not it plays well enough for you, I don't care. My statement is true, and I'm sorry that the facts hurt you.
Maybe i'm using the wrong word here? Does judder better describe what i'm trying to say? I don't know, English is not my native language. So, my bad.Do you even know what stutter means?
But it does make them feel better, that's for sure.Again, in the case of today's RACERS, 60fps wouldn't make it "play" better when the physics engine is already updating at 3-4x the actual graphic's framerate.
Oh, a backtracker I see. You just basically said in that post 30fps vs 60fps affects gameplay. Let me requote it for you. lol
Maybe i'm using the wrong word here? Does judder better describe what i'm trying to say? I don't know, English is not my native language. So, my bad.
I said people were blowing 30fps in racers out of proportion, never mentioned you specifically.
as if the gameplay is shit.
60fps wouldn't make it "play" better when the physics engine is already updating at 3-4x the actual graphic's framerate.
Got it.You are looking for the word choppy. I usually find 30 fps tolerable unless it's a game where the camera swings quickly. 30 fps fast panning is a choppy mess.
Uhh... it absolutely affects gameplay. Where are you going with this? A fast paced game objectively plays worse at 30 fps then 60 fps. Even if you update the controller input at 60 fps you still only receive visual feedback 30 times a second. This doesn't mean the game is unplayable, or even that it necessarily feels bad to play. It just means that it's lesser then if it was running at 60 fps. There are enough 30 fps console to 60 fps PC ports to make this fact indisputable.
On topic: I wouldn't mind if a decent arcade racer came out. I haven't really played one since Burnout Paradise.
In that it wouldn't have looked as nice, sure.
Got it.
If we're talking about other genres I would agree the framerate definitely affects the gameplay in a huge way, especially for something like Ninja Gaiden or DMC. The visual feedback difference between 60fps and 30fps with good motion blur is noticeable, I go back between Rallisport 2, GT6, and DC2 all the time, but the difference in visual feedback isn't that huge to say the gameplay is hugely affected by it. Both Rallisport 2 and GT6 aren't as fast paced as DC2 but run at twice the framerate while DC2 is 30fps, and I've never had a hard time playing it to say it plays worse than the other two.
http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_driveclub_cayoosh_night_storm_hot_lap-GmcuURWJ3nw9tbIc_en.html
In that it wouldn't have looked as nice, sure.
Which is the point,
Nonsense. It would have had worse lighting which would impact gameplay, worse weather affects such as no moving droplets on the windshield according to the direction and turns etc which would impact gameplay etc.. By your logic every game in the world will play the same and not affect gameplay if it were changed to 60fps and graphics were downgraded.
Hence my original claim - graphics over gameplay.
water droplets on the windshield affecting gameplay, hahaha.
How do you know exactly how much the graphics would be downgraded. You seem very specific.Nonsense. It would have had worse lighting which would impact gameplay, worse weather affects such as no moving droplets on the windshield according to the direction and turns etc which would impact gameplay etc.. By your logic every game in the world will play the same and not have its gameplay affected if it were changed to 60fps and graphics were downgraded.
The sacrifices they would have to make to the gameplay to get this to run at 60fps is not worth the trade of given the minimal input lag and the wonderful sense of speed that destroys the likes of Dirt 2, NFS at 60 fps.
All well and good, but I want a new F-Zero for Wii U (or even 3DS).
What an embarassing post. I fear for humanity.
Hence my original claim - graphics over gameplay.
water droplets on the windshield affecting gameplay, hahaha.
Two 30fps simcade games are the furthest things on my mind from an "embarrassment of riches for arcade racing fans."
Without the frame rate we would just be playing a picture.The graphics we see are the gameplay. Without graphics we would just be playing a soundtrack.
The graphics we see are the gameplay.
I wish there was a way to switch between 30 and 60fps on the go, to really feel the difference. With videos its never as noticeable. I remember many people saying that they can't go back to the original TLOU because of the 60fps remaster. And that's just a slower paced cinematic style game.
I wish there was a way to switch between 30 and 60fps on the go, to really feel the difference. With videos its never as noticeable. I remember many people saying that they can't go back to the original TLOU because of the 60fps remaster. And that's just a slower paced cinematic style game.
Such hyperbole.Did you not get the memo Shaneus. Evo could have made it look like Ridge Racer 2 and run it at 240 fps without sacrificing gameplay. Clearly they prioritized visuals over gameplay.
Sega Race TV, courtesy of Google reverse image search.Which game is this?
Such hyperbole.
Games can run at 60fps and look good enough. 6th gen games proved that. Some of the best looking games of that gen were 60fps games.
Sadly, being a Lindbergh game (based on original Xbox hardware)
What's funny is that it absolutely does. I'm not sure where you were going with this. After watching the first video, the second video feels like it's running in slow motion. It's funny how temporal resolution works that way.
Goal posts changing. No one in this thread argued that the same game at 60 fps is not going to be better than the same game at 30 fps.
30fps vs 60fps can only be compared within the same game.