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Are Mario RPGs dying?
- Thread starter A Link to the Past
- Start date
A Link to the Past
Banned
EDIT: Noticed that I didn't give context in my original post, but come on, given the post I was replying to and given that I said it was the second best-selling Zelda, it was pretty evident that I wasn't speaking of lifetime sales.
Can Nintendo just make a proper sequel to Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door? Give me the same gameplay, graphics, crowd influence,etc but with a different story. That game defines the GameCube era for me and I would love to see mario rpgs go in that direction again.
To be honest, I just want a Sonic RPG set in sonic's comic book world but that's just me. (we have seen how Sonic RPGs pan out and they are not pretty.)
balladofwindfishes
Member
The Paper Mario studio just made a new IP:
Not the most successful new IP that came out in 2015.
Intelligent Systems also works on Fire Emblem, and used to make Nintendo Wars games, although we haven't had one of them in awhile.
Alphadream was basically founded by the Mario RPG crew, so they just make Mario RPGs. I'm not really sure what else they'd do, since they're a specific group known for making a specific RPG with a specific IP.
I kind of want to see a Monolith Mario RPG, though. I wonder how that would turn out...
Ehh... it's pretty much a redo of the original Paper Mario 64 plot. Bowser steals a thing for ultimate power. Bowser gets ultimate power, goes on a rampage, kidnaps Peach. Mario has to go around collecting thinga-majigs to stop Bowser's big power.
Green Mamba
Member
Both Sticker Star and Paper Jam completely gutted their respective series of basically all original characters, enemies, and especially environments. The Mario franchise once had a large amount of identities but as of late they seem to be attempting to pare it down to just one generic Mario style, and it's absolutely killing visual and storytelling diversity in Mario titles. Something like The Thousand Year Door's seedy Rogueport or Super Star Saga's insane parallel Bean Kingdom would never happen under the modern Mario umbrella, and that is an absolute crying shame.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Alpha Dream made a few games before being put on Mario & Luigi detail. Tomato Adventure and some Hamtaro games are the only ones I can think of. Since like Partners in Time, they haven't done a non-Mario game.
Agree to disagree. I loved Sticker Star. To me, the design is a bit obtuse at times but the design and OST are utterly charming and the progression and gameplay are creative and engaging. (Where's RM8 to back me up when I need him?)
AuthenticM
Member
Do we know how many copies The Thousand-Year Door sold? I don't understand why Nintendo hasn't iterated on its formula. The game was fucking perfect.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I really found the two art styles mixing in Paper Jam to be a turnoff.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
Still waiting for a true sequel to Super Mario RPG.
Yeah, I know. It's never gonna happen.
Yeah, I know. It's never gonna happen.
Green Mamba
Member
Series LTD:
PM64: 1.37M
TTYD: 1.91M
SPM: 4.23M
PMSS: 2.24M
SS not doing enormously better than TTYD despite being on a device with a much higher install base seems kind of surprising.
Paper Mario being gutted probably has less to do with Paper Mario and more to do with Bowser's Inside Story doing gangbusters and then they decided to put all of their Mario RPG eggs into one basket and let Paper Mario stumble around blindly. And then Sticker Star outsold Dream Team so they just don't know what the fuck they're doing with the Mario RPG brand.
I've said this more than once, I'm down
A Link to the Past
Banned
It does if you're looking at it in a non-literal sense. :v To me, there's a certain identity that's shared between all of the games - even across the three different brands - and the series is getting kind of diluted (which began back w/ Super Paper Mario). Also it's practically clickbait anyway
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Yep, it's the very reason I couldn't stand Sticker Star.
Leafhopper
Banned
Not only all that. That was the Advance Wars team that made name Codename Steam.
Still mad.
Just fucking make another Paper Mario in the same vein as PM64/TTYD on home console holy shit. The stories and characters and locations were so charming and fun to discover. It is so frustrating seeing my favorite franchise become what it is today.
Super Paper Mario was a decent game but I did not like the art style what-so-ever. The backgrounds were so abstract and didn't make me think of paper at all (especially Flipside Town). And those god-awful npc designs of basic geometric shapes, c'mon. Almost all the great things about the first two PM games were gutted in Sticker Star: the story, the partners, and the rpg elements of leveling. To Sticker Star's credit, the paper effect of the graphics was marvelous and traversing the actual stages was very fun.
I've never been a huge fan of the M&L series as a whole, but I did thoroughly enjoy Super Star Saga. The rest of the M&L games seem to be pretty stable and consistent with respect to the original game in the series.
I'm hoping, HOPING, that the next PM game goes back to its roots.
I apologize for the angst in this post
Super Paper Mario was a decent game but I did not like the art style what-so-ever. The backgrounds were so abstract and didn't make me think of paper at all (especially Flipside Town). And those god-awful npc designs of basic geometric shapes, c'mon. Almost all the great things about the first two PM games were gutted in Sticker Star: the story, the partners, and the rpg elements of leveling. To Sticker Star's credit, the paper effect of the graphics was marvelous and traversing the actual stages was very fun.
I've never been a huge fan of the M&L series as a whole, but I did thoroughly enjoy Super Star Saga. The rest of the M&L games seem to be pretty stable and consistent with respect to the original game in the series.
I'm hoping, HOPING, that the next PM game goes back to its roots.
I apologize for the angst in this post
Hopefully Ken Penders doesn't try to sue again.
It'd be nice if a developer, possibly even Alpha Dream, could do justice to the Sonic cast and lore (lol) the same way the current Archie comics have. It's a shame about the curse that stops decent third parties from making good Sonic games, though
Mario RPG series sell in (source: Nintendo)
Mario RPG isn't going anywhere anytime soon, Nintendo will keep releasing new episodes.
Now, how they will evolve/change the series is anybody guess.
The best game in each series sold the best. Looks like there is some justice in the world.
My favorite franchise... time for a long post no one will care about!
I remember when Paper Mario 3DS was first revealed. It was pretty exciting, and even though I typically only buy Nintendo consoles I was seriously debating buying a 3DS for it. And then Sticker Star turned out to be what it was. Even though IÂ’d still buy and play the game if I had the chance, I wouldnÂ’t be willing to buy a 3DS for it, and havenÂ’t.
My brother and I have talked a lot about the state of Mario RPGs recently. The Paper Mario franchise was once GOAT status, and the Mario & Luigi games are rather enjoyable RPGs. Thousand Year Door is one of my favorite games and I feel like the Mario RPGs are the only Mario games that make the Mario World interesting. (Actually, somehow Mario Kart 8 managed to do that to.) I’ve accepted that although TTYD is one of my favorite games, there isn’t any reason for IntSys to make more like it, especially since they’ve found (financial) success in games like SPM and SS. (However, If SS was based on feedback from complaints about SPM, I wouldn’t be too surprised if a “normal” PM was the result of SS feedback.)
I don’t want to be one of those people who just blames IntSys or Nintendo or Miyamoto for “ruining” the franchise though. I think PM is a franchise that can continue to be explored and expanded upon, and hopefully that’ll lead to more hits than misses.
AnywayÂ…
I am one of those people who’d rather try my own hand at this than twiddle my thumbs and hope the next PM is a “return to glory.” (Who am I kidding, I still have hope IntSys! ;_; ) I know GAF isn’t interested in fan games, but I don’t think posting this here would do any harm.
Power Ups Teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdCMnyTCL3c
Original Trailer (June, 2015): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=365KQo0l_Ns
The name of the project is Epic Paper Mario, and it is basically TTYD + Super Paper Mario in terms of overall gameplay. The world is presented as a 2D platformer with normal 2D platformer enemies, but the majority of enemies will actually trigger TTYD-esque battles. The rest function like enemies would in SPM and those types are specially indicated. There are badges, power-ups, partners, actual characters, and more Paper Mario staples.
Example of an RPG Enemy:
Example of a Platformer Enemy:
IÂ’ve managed to recreate all the badges from TTYD in addition to a version of its audience system. I wanted incorporate elements from Sticker Star as well but I havenÂ’t played the game or looked too heavily into how EPM could benefit from itÂ…
So, um yeah. If you're interested in the project you can find more info here.
You probably didn't read any of that... but maybe the colorful nonsense caught your eye!
Sorry for the hijack, but AFAIK, you're not supposed to make dedicated threads for this type of thing.
I remember when Paper Mario 3DS was first revealed. It was pretty exciting, and even though I typically only buy Nintendo consoles I was seriously debating buying a 3DS for it. And then Sticker Star turned out to be what it was. Even though IÂ’d still buy and play the game if I had the chance, I wouldnÂ’t be willing to buy a 3DS for it, and havenÂ’t.
My brother and I have talked a lot about the state of Mario RPGs recently. The Paper Mario franchise was once GOAT status, and the Mario & Luigi games are rather enjoyable RPGs. Thousand Year Door is one of my favorite games and I feel like the Mario RPGs are the only Mario games that make the Mario World interesting. (Actually, somehow Mario Kart 8 managed to do that to.) I’ve accepted that although TTYD is one of my favorite games, there isn’t any reason for IntSys to make more like it, especially since they’ve found (financial) success in games like SPM and SS. (However, If SS was based on feedback from complaints about SPM, I wouldn’t be too surprised if a “normal” PM was the result of SS feedback.)
I don’t want to be one of those people who just blames IntSys or Nintendo or Miyamoto for “ruining” the franchise though. I think PM is a franchise that can continue to be explored and expanded upon, and hopefully that’ll lead to more hits than misses.
AnywayÂ…
I am one of those people who’d rather try my own hand at this than twiddle my thumbs and hope the next PM is a “return to glory.” (Who am I kidding, I still have hope IntSys! ;_; ) I know GAF isn’t interested in fan games, but I don’t think posting this here would do any harm.
Power Ups Teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdCMnyTCL3c
Original Trailer (June, 2015): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=365KQo0l_Ns
The name of the project is Epic Paper Mario, and it is basically TTYD + Super Paper Mario in terms of overall gameplay. The world is presented as a 2D platformer with normal 2D platformer enemies, but the majority of enemies will actually trigger TTYD-esque battles. The rest function like enemies would in SPM and those types are specially indicated. There are badges, power-ups, partners, actual characters, and more Paper Mario staples.
Example of an RPG Enemy:
Example of a Platformer Enemy:
IÂ’ve managed to recreate all the badges from TTYD in addition to a version of its audience system. I wanted incorporate elements from Sticker Star as well but I havenÂ’t played the game or looked too heavily into how EPM could benefit from itÂ…
So, um yeah. If you're interested in the project you can find more info here.
You probably didn't read any of that... but maybe the colorful nonsense caught your eye!
Sorry for the hijack, but AFAIK, you're not supposed to make dedicated threads for this type of thing.
Nope. Unconventional is what i've come to expect from Mario RPG, but the last few after Bowser's inside story...I really miss the vibe from the first Super Star, Mario RPG, and Thousand.
Also the soundtracks have been lower in quality imo.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Super Mario RPG's worst game sold the best though
Sticker Star is my favourite PM game and my GOTY 2012 <3 It's a superb puzzle adventure game with superb music and superb visuals. And (in Japan) it outsold all previous PM games, the game didn't bomb by any means and it also didn't get bad reviews. It's not perfect, but let's be honest, its biggest "flaw" is not being like TTYD/64.
A Link to the Past
Banned
balladofwindfishes
Member
I think Sticker Star's soundtrack is fine. It's a bit different from the other Paper Marios, but in a pleasant, jazzy kind of way.
But I think the original Paper Mario has the best soundtrack of them all, which isn't really a majority opinion.
I know all of that and Codename STEAM is an awesome game. I want more.
I don't really care how much a game sells. If it does good, that's great. If it does bad, oh well, that's business.
I'm just over the Mario RPG game. I feel they've been done to death and the universe has been thoroughly explored.
So just invent more universe, like every good game in the franchise does.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Well S.T.E.A.M. flopped and Intelligent has to something else besides Fire Emblem.
A Link to the Past
Banned
IS seems so averse to making a new Advance Wars game that they would create a new IP so they don't have to make a sequel
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Advance Wars is never going to happen. Accept that fate now and you'll be happier as time goes on.
But I don't want to see Mario anymore.
Dont want to quote the whole thing but that fan game looks great. I like the aesthetic of smrpg alot more than the paper mario ones, but im gonna follow thia game. Mother 4 is the game im most excited for this year so im pretty down for fan games made by ppl who think a lot about the games they liked so much
so turn him green
I'd honestly love a game with the paper aesthetic and wholly original characters.
Not dying but the quality have gone down in the setting.
To be honest i loved the Super Paper Mario game, i found it very imaginative, i don't care if there is turn based battle or not if something is like that instead ! That sort of strange action/adventure game with a very daring plot for a Mario game !
Paper Mario Sticker Star wasn't that bad.... That's something i will always say, it's a charming mix between plateformer, RPG and point & click, if you don't like point & click game you may not like it but the thing is there ORIGINALITY in the gameplay. Even if the world was basically the mushroom kingdom, you can see here and there the good writing of Paper Mario with some crazy sticker to use from time to time.
I don't really understand why Sticker Star is considered so bad when Paper Mario 1 had a LOT of boring moment like the flower field and is just, in my opinion, a "good" game... Especially after Mario RPG on SNES. (Well, that being said, Paper Mario 2 was fantastic, one of my favorite RPG of all time)
Mario & Luigi is different, Superstar Saga, the first one was so crazy it was awesome even with some boring moment, the second one, Partner's in time was indeed a disappointment but not too much in my opinion and i liked the darker tone, i loved the third one, Bowser Inside Story like a lot of people.... But the fourth, Dream Team Bros ? What a bore ! I don't understand how you can take an awesome setting like dream and screw up like that ! Why the 2D segment in Dream ? It worked on Bowser body because it was short but here it just make a very unimaginative design imo. You could do so much more with that !... Like Super Paper Mario.
And the last one, Paper Jam.... Really ? That's a better game than Sticker Star ? Just because it have some dialog don't make it a better story. Maybe it will be better after the ice mountain but for now, it's a huge disappointment... Everything is so... Empty... Bland... The new gameplay is about capturing Toads which are escaping or in bubble or whatever in a limited time, i don't found that very fun... It's not a BAD game but there is no personality in there... It's like the New Super Mario Bros of Mario & Luigi, even if i didn't liked the bland world from Dream Team Bros, at least they tried something ! Here no.
So yeah, i hope the next game, NIntendo will allow those studio to focus a little more on the story and/or the situation/diveristy of Level Design. THIS is what made Mario RPG's so interesting in my opinion !
PS : I SWEAR Starlow and Kresti are the exact same character, they are so boring ! It's like listening for the designer telling you to do stuff ! Not having them before made you do your own stuff or meeting a lot of different people which will guide you. Now they don't have to worry about that with those floaty tutorial character...
To be honest i loved the Super Paper Mario game, i found it very imaginative, i don't care if there is turn based battle or not if something is like that instead ! That sort of strange action/adventure game with a very daring plot for a Mario game !
Paper Mario Sticker Star wasn't that bad.... That's something i will always say, it's a charming mix between plateformer, RPG and point & click, if you don't like point & click game you may not like it but the thing is there ORIGINALITY in the gameplay. Even if the world was basically the mushroom kingdom, you can see here and there the good writing of Paper Mario with some crazy sticker to use from time to time.
I don't really understand why Sticker Star is considered so bad when Paper Mario 1 had a LOT of boring moment like the flower field and is just, in my opinion, a "good" game... Especially after Mario RPG on SNES. (Well, that being said, Paper Mario 2 was fantastic, one of my favorite RPG of all time)
Mario & Luigi is different, Superstar Saga, the first one was so crazy it was awesome even with some boring moment, the second one, Partner's in time was indeed a disappointment but not too much in my opinion and i liked the darker tone, i loved the third one, Bowser Inside Story like a lot of people.... But the fourth, Dream Team Bros ? What a bore ! I don't understand how you can take an awesome setting like dream and screw up like that ! Why the 2D segment in Dream ? It worked on Bowser body because it was short but here it just make a very unimaginative design imo. You could do so much more with that !... Like Super Paper Mario.
And the last one, Paper Jam.... Really ? That's a better game than Sticker Star ? Just because it have some dialog don't make it a better story. Maybe it will be better after the ice mountain but for now, it's a huge disappointment... Everything is so... Empty... Bland... The new gameplay is about capturing Toads which are escaping or in bubble or whatever in a limited time, i don't found that very fun... It's not a BAD game but there is no personality in there... It's like the New Super Mario Bros of Mario & Luigi, even if i didn't liked the bland world from Dream Team Bros, at least they tried something ! Here no.
So yeah, i hope the next game, NIntendo will allow those studio to focus a little more on the story and/or the situation/diveristy of Level Design. THIS is what made Mario RPG's so interesting in my opinion !
PS : I SWEAR Starlow and Kresti are the exact same character, they are so boring ! It's like listening for the designer telling you to do stuff ! Not having them before made you do your own stuff or meeting a lot of different people which will guide you. Now they don't have to worry about that with those floaty tutorial character...
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'd really like to see Nintendo do a digital download Advance Wars sequel. It wouldn't even be that hard to do - they could just reuse a lot of the assets from Days of Ruin and/or Dual Strike. They could even just make it a sequel to Dual Strike, thus giving them a large cast of characters pre-made for them. Then they can just make a handful of new units, maybe add a couple new mechanics, some new tiles, put in a level creator, give it online vs. (maybe even eight players?), and you've got yourself a really, really good game. I think the problem is that Nintendo is too concerned about games having appeal in Japan, and while DoR was something of a bomb WW, the previous three did fairly well.
I mean, combat was indeed not the most important part of the game (especially in comparison to previous games), but it was a way to get coins and stickers, and I found it to be very enjoyable. Maybe Sticker Star 2 can make battles a bit more important!
entremet
Member
I'd say playing it safe is more accurate.
The original Mario RPGs introduced a lot of new characters and settings.
Now? Not so much.
The games sell decently and we'll continue to see more.
TTYD is a GOAT for that generation, though. That's a hard act to follow.
Super Paper Mario have the strongest identity though... It's not the Paper Mario identity but it's not the classic Super Mario Bros one either...
Me too. I'm sure IS could make it great.
SoundPulse
Banned
When you say Mario RPG, my mind drifts to this and I get really sad we'll never get a proper sequel.
Really, at this point, I just want the notion of defining the game with gimmicks to go. Even the Paper gimmicks got old to me sometime halfway through TTYD. Just make a solid RPG with original characters and I'll probably come.
... I'll settle for Paper Mario 3D or something.
Really, at this point, I just want the notion of defining the game with gimmicks to go. Even the Paper gimmicks got old to me sometime halfway through TTYD. Just make a solid RPG with original characters and I'll probably come.
... I'll settle for Paper Mario 3D or something.
This is my fear. Thousand Year Door is one of my favourite games. It's of a quality few other games reach. Why they've stayed away from the RPG style Paper Mario games since then is beyond me.
I haven't yet played Super Paper Mario, but I know it's not an RPG in the same sense. Sticker Star was a huge letdown for many reasons (no RPG elements, battles are pointless, backtracking, weak story, no hub world, etc. etc.).
I haven't played any of the Mario Bros. games, so I can't speak for those.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Perhaps, but I don't know that we will necessarily see more identity loss like what was seen in Paper Jam and Sticker Star. Perhaps if they were really, really big successes (or past MRPGs underperformed a lot), but thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case.
I mean, combat was indeed not the most important part of the game (especially in comparison to previous games), but it was a way to get coins and stickers, and I found it to be very enjoyable. Maybe Sticker Star 2 can make battles a bit more important!
Well if Sticker Star 2 was a game that did well what the first was trying to do, it would probably be swell. I mean, I'm not even in the camp of "this isn't TTYD2, riot". I was defending the fact that it was its own thing up until I played it. All of things it did, aside from taking away the fun characters, interesting story, and engaging writing, were things that could have made for a great game, they just didn't do it well enough.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
The last Mario is in captivity.
panthapanda
Member
Yes. It seems like Nintendo is more focused on making the game accessible to a newer generation rather than, you know, making the game good. It's all about appeasing the casual gamers which will never happen because their target audience is kids and kids just don't want to play those type of games these days.
Yeah, this is one of the bigger problems with Sticker Star. Not only are battles pointless, they make you waste stickers so you actively avoid battles.