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[Amagon]

Gaf, I am sooo disappointed this hasn't been posted yet. For shame!

 

[that1dude24]

This argument always turns into a cesspool of ego stroking and is inhabited by self proclaimed "men among women"; men who think that because they know how cars work, how to hunt, how to camp, how to do all those socially proclaimed "manly" things - as if women can't or don't know how to do it. They take pride in instinct and tell tales of how it was in the "old days", as if men who were less efficient jack of all trades and men who took risks needlessly are to be heralded as the champions of the human race.

Most bring up a quip about how they are more self-sufficient than the common man or woman by means of hunting and strength - but both topics and activities relating to it are mere husks of what they used to entail. We live in an age where most of society is specialized, where most persons aren't (and almost can't be) self-sufficient, and those societies that meet and excel in these "manly" traits have agonizingly slow progress in medicinal, scientific, and economic fields.

 

[beelzebozo]

That reinforces what I just said. In the past, society didn't deem divorce socially acceptable. Now, people do not give a shit so people divorce whenever they want to and frequently.

they "give a shit" as much as they did in the past. divorce is now acceptable and recognized as a necessary evil. there is not social bravery taking place here.

 

[Fantasmo]

People joke about it like it's all about changing tires and wearing skinny jeans, but there are certainly areas where the whole "real man" issue is very real and damaging and we should all push for change. Looking at my own country (USA), at the foundation of the serious issues lie stigmas, humility and how often it is confused with humiliation, and how this results in self-destructive behavior and/or a lack of social responsibility. That's very basic and for the above to make complete sense it needs to be put into context and one needs to think on what being socially responsible means and what doors humility opens for us.

e.g. Real men are overrepresented in prison whereas in mental health facilities (in or outpatient) and literature underrepresented. Spin the wheel of mental illnesses and for every one there lies a footnote, "...is more common in women than men." Except for? Substance abuse.

It's misleading; real men deal with their own shit, don't cry and don't seek help. Real men self-medicate. Real men don't have PTSD, experience or acknowledge fear or embarrassing emotional pain; they walk it out and down the road it most often manifests itself as physical, emotional or sexual abuse or neglect of others. Real men do not monopolize on desperation in a positive manner; this is usually the point where humility is misunderstood and instead pride and intense fear of humiliation force things south.

The children of real men internalize all this of course (if their fathers are there at all or not in prison) and that's why so many of the resulting issues are multi-generational. That's why so many are trapped in this loop, and in certain communities you are absolutely fighting to keep your head above water the second you are born. You will be punished or shunned for not being man enough, not being black enough, not being enough. Self-medicating is encouraged and to rub salt in the wounds the law punishes real men who do this instead of helping them.

Beautiful post. Thank you for this.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

You know. Countries?

I'd give more of an explanation if I thought you didn't already know the answer.

I'm serious. I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Horseticuffs]

I'm a straight dude. I'm married with two daughters. I've been hunting, and I've killed stuff and eaten it. I enjoy sex. I work a job that I don't particularly care about to the best of my ability so as to provide for the people I'm responsible for. I guess the sort of stuff you would usually associate with being a "Man" applies.

I just personally don't think the label has much meaning and probably never has. I think it's awful when people feel they have to live up to some ideal in order to justify or authenticate their existence. I have as much sympathy for the fellow who won't allow himself to be anything other than what he thinks society expects from a "man" as I do for the person who pretends to be straight because they just won't allow themselves the opportunity to consider that they might not be.

These ideal men of yesteryear were unwilling to compromise, unable to communicate, and chained to the things that were expected of them. But the heart wants what it wants, and eventually it will have it. You can't kill an idea. At least not easily.

I suggest that the modern man is not neutered, but empowered. How is it a bad thing to be able to be who you are internally? Why is pretending and wearing a mask preferable?

Sure, men are men and women are women. But through it all we are individuals, and most of what was keeping men "men" and women "women" were just societal programming that is changing.

It's natural to have nostalgia, but I think in the long run it is best for the species if we allow people to be themselves. Do you really think, if they had been exposed to other lifestyles and options, all of our Grandfathers and Fathers would have chosen to live like the "Madmen" dudes? Tons of guys back then didn't even live up to that ideal, and tons more lived that way even though it likely wasn't natural for them.

I dunno, dudes. I'm glad there is less pressure these days.

 

[gwarm01]

People in general seem less capable and less willing to take on challenges and burdens than they used to. Maybe we're just used to having our hands held and having authority figures take care of things for us. We aren't as willing to realize that we can handle these challenges on our own.

 

[duk]

keep ur pimp hand strong

 

[Slavik81]

The divorce rate, for one. In the past, people would stay married because it looked good. Now people don't work for anything and divorce rates are through the roof. Are you disputing this?

Though it's still high, the divorce rate has been slowly dropping since the late eighties. Not that I dispute your claim, but I found that interesting.

 

[Cringe Humor]

Read a few pages of this thread and wanted to vomit.


Masculinity has become politically incorrect? Really?

 

[lethial]

Read a few pages of this thread and wanted to vomit.


Masculinity has become politically incorrect? Really?

Everything is politically incorrect these days.

Nice avatar.

 

[ReBurn]

Nothing changes and nothing stays the same.

 

[dream]

Read a few pages of this thread and wanted to vomit.


Masculinity has become politically incorrect? Really?

I'm amazed by it too.

I think the argument is it makes more feminine men feel like they're inadequate as men.

What do you even say to that?

 

[datruth29]

People joke about it like it's all about changing tires and wearing skinny jeans, but there are certainly areas where the whole "real man" issue is very real and damaging and we should all push for change. Looking at my own country (USA), at the foundation of the serious issues lie stigmas, humility and how often it is confused with humiliation, and how this results in self-destructive behavior and/or a lack of social responsibility. That's very basic and for the above to make complete sense it needs to be put into context and one needs to think on what being socially responsible means and what doors humility opens for us.

e.g. Real men are overrepresented in prison whereas in mental health facilities (in or outpatient) and literature underrepresented. Spin the wheel of mental illnesses and for every one there lies a footnote, "...is more common in women than men." Except for? Substance abuse.

It's misleading; real men deal with their own shit, don't cry and don't seek help. Real men self-medicate. Real men don't have PTSD, experience or acknowledge fear or embarrassing emotional pain; they walk it out and down the road it most often manifests itself as physical, emotional or sexual abuse or neglect of others. Real men do not monopolize on desperation in a positive manner; this is usually the point where humility is misunderstood and instead pride and intense fear of humiliation force things south.

The children of real men internalize all this of course (if their fathers are there at all or not in prison) and that's why so many of the resulting issues are multi-generational. That's why so many are trapped in this loop, and in certain communities you are absolutely fighting to keep your head above water the second you are born. You will be punished or shunned for not being man enough, not being black enough, not being enough. Self-medicating is encouraged and to rub salt in the wounds the law punishes real men who do this instead of helping them.

This. Fucking THIS!

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

So this is why a load of GAFers got pissy when I said I didn't like toys that pushed gender role stereotypes. You're all worried about "manly men" dying out!

"Manly men" remind people of the ye olde "glory days" of the 50's and 40's where men dominated social status. Since the women rights movement things have been getting more equal between the sexes and many men are afraid of losing their influence and power. Kind of reminds me of another certain battle of equality.

In todays world, men are allowed to be more passive and women are allowed to be more aggressive, and as time goes on the leashes become longer and looser as you'll see Clint Eastwoods and Oprahs of all sexes. Most guys want to "fight the good fight", but I find this amusing as I imagine that this is a site dominated by overweight whimpy nerds who couldn't even do a pullup.

 

[CornBurrito]

Read a few pages of this thread and wanted to vomit.


Masculinity has become politically incorrect? Really?

You seem to be taking out of it only what you want to take out of it.

I don't think anybody has said "masculinity is PI!!!" It is that "real men" such as yourself should realize that not every person with a penis wants to follow in your path. Not everyone wants to have their life goals/habits/job determined by what set of genitals they have.

Also can you define masculinity? What is a "real man?"

 

[dream]

"Manly men" remind people of the ye olde "glory days" of the 50's and 40's where men dominated social status. Since the women rights movement things have been getting more equal between the sexes and many men are afraid of losing their influence and power. Kind of reminds me of another certain battle of equality.

In todays world, men are allowed to be more passive and women are allowed to be more aggressive, and as time goes on the leashes become longer and looser as you'll see Clint Eastwoods and Oprahs of all sexes. Most guys want to "fight the good fight", but I find this amusing as I imagine that this is a site dominated by overweight whimpy nerds who couldn't even do a pullup.

I think it's more of a reaction to ridiculous things like "if a 14 year old boy wants to wear a dress to school solely for attention then he should be allowed to do so because not allowing him to reinforces gender stereotypes."

 

[CornBurrito]

I think it's more of a reaction to ridiculous things like "if a 14 year old boy wants to wear a dress to school solely for attention then he should be allowed to do so because not allowing him to reinforces gender stereotypes."

I think everyone in that thread with the exception of Gaborn felt the kid was in the wrong since he was doing it not because he was transgendered, but because he wanted attention and wanted to distract the class.

 

[Plywood]

I think it's more of a reaction to ridiculous things like "if a 14 year old boy wants to wear a dress to school solely for attention then he should be allowed to do so because not allowing him to reinforces gender stereotypes."

I think everyone in that thread with the exception of Gaborn felt the kid was in the wrong since he was doing it not because he was transgendered, but because he wanted attention and wanted to distract the class.

Wrong, there were a number of staunch defenders of the kid.

 

[Jimma!]

I reckon that this subject has some opinions that are utter BS. And yes the BS is generated by the Female Society.

I think that you need to make up your minds, you bitch and moan about how guys are such jerks or that they are insesitive and you wish that they changed. Now when you get the change (yes in some reagards their are cases where you need to tell julian to man the Fuck up) and you complain that All men aren't manly Enough.

*Make up your Minds*

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I think it's more of a reaction to ridiculous things like "if a 14 year old boy wants to wear a dress to school solely for attention then he should be allowed to do so because not allowing him to reinforces gender stereotypes."

I don't see how this counters my post.

I explain why many males are uncomfortable with this pendulum swinging and you bring in an example of a a story that was misunderstood and resulted politically correct gangup?

 

[Plywood]

Most guys want to "fight the good fight", but I find this amusing as I imagine that this is a site dominated by overweight whimpy nerds who couldn't even do a pullup.

Nonsense most people on this site seem generally active and healthy, at least OT side: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418911

 

[tiff]

I think it's more of a reaction to ridiculous things like "if a 14 year old boy wants to wear a dress to school solely for attention then he should be allowed to do so because not allowing him to reinforces gender stereotypes."

I think it's worth pointing out that the only thing that made that wrong was the fact that he only did it for attention.

 

[dream]

I think everyone in that thread with the exception of Gaborn felt the kid was in the wrong since he was doing it not because he was transgendered, but because he wanted attention and wanted to distract the class.

Right, but you know arguments like that are made on a routine basis.

I don't think anyone really clings to Mr. Banks' The Life I Lead as a model of what a man should be. I think a lot of it is just reactionary backlash to how oversensitive people have become to, well, fucking everything.

 

[Cringe Humor]

People joke about it like it's all about changing tires and wearing skinny jeans, but there are certainly areas where the whole "real man" issue is very real and damaging and we should all push for change. Looking at my own country (USA), at the foundation of the serious issues lie stigmas, humility and how often it is confused with humiliation, and how this results in self-destructive behavior and/or a lack of social responsibility. That's very basic and for the above to make complete sense it needs to be put into context and one needs to think on what being socially responsible means and what doors humility opens for us.

e.g. Real men are overrepresented in prison whereas in mental health facilities (in or outpatient) and literature underrepresented. Spin the wheel of mental illnesses and for every one there lies a footnote, "...is more common in women than men." Except for? Substance abuse.

It's misleading; real men deal with their own shit, don't cry and don't seek help. Real men self-medicate. Real men don't have PTSD, experience or acknowledge fear or embarrassing emotional pain; they walk it out and down the road it most often manifests itself as physical, emotional or sexual abuse or neglect of others. Real men do not monopolize on desperation in a positive manner; this is usually the point where humility is misunderstood and instead pride and intense fear of humiliation force things south.

The children of real men internalize all this of course (if their fathers are there at all or not in prison) and that's why so many of the resulting issues are multi-generational. That's why so many are trapped in this loop, and in certain communities you are absolutely fighting to keep your head above water the second you are born. You will be punished or shunned for not being man enough, not being black enough, not being enough. Self-medicating is encouraged and to rub salt in the wounds the law punishes real men who do this instead of helping them.

Despite the chorus of "yeah!!!"s following this post, I'm going to call a bit of hyperbole on this.

First of all, your assertion that manhood = drinking your problems away is one hell of a stretch. And then you go on some incoherent tangent about sexual abuse and neglect. I don't really get what you're saying, to be honest. It just seems waaay hyperbolic.


Men value a little stoicism and some degree of emotional toughness. As politically incorrect as this may be, sometimes rigorous therapy and depression medication aren't the best ways to deal with your problems. I know this is hard to believe, but sometimes confronting your problems head-on and dealing with them personally builds strength and wisdom. To be clear, in some cases treatment and medication ARE the necessary measures, especially with those involving real PTSD. But I refuse to believe that emotional toughness shouldn't be encouraged and admired in men.

 

[Plywood]

I think it's worth pointing out that the only thing that made that wrong was the fact that he only did it for attention.

Which is what everyone was saying.

 

[travisbickle]

Read a few pages of this thread and wanted to vomit.


Masculinity has become politically incorrect? Really?

Masculinity as it has been defined in the past always has been politically incorrect. Defining a person's actions/persona based on gender isn't good for society.

 

[tiff]

But I refuse to believe that emotional toughness shouldn't be encouraged and admired in men.

"Toughness" always sounds like a positive trait, but why only men?

Which is what everyone was saying.

So the reaction to a 14 year-old attention whore is to uphold rigid gender roles?

 

[Cringe Humor]

"Manly men" remind people of the ye olde "glory days" of the 50's and 40's where men dominated social status. Since the women rights movement things have been getting more equal between the sexes and many men are afraid of losing their influence and power. Kind of reminds me of another certain battle of equality.

In todays world, men are allowed to be more passive and women are allowed to be more aggressive, and as time goes on the leashes become longer and looser as you'll see Clint Eastwoods and Oprahs of all sexes. Most guys want to "fight the good fight", but I find this amusing as I imagine that this is a site dominated by overweight whimpy nerds who couldn't even do a pullup.

This post seems to be saturated with feminist angst. I think it's quite a bit silly to think that men valuing and encouraging masculinity is all part of some devious, subversive plot to keep women down or something. And then you make an allusion to the civil rights movement. Uhh.. what?

Lay off of the Mad Men episodes, perhaps.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Despite the chorus of "yeah!!!"s following this post, I'm going to call a bit of hyperbole on this.

First of all, your assertion that manhood = drinking your problems away is one hell of a stretch. And then you go on some incoherent tangent about sexual abuse and neglect. I don't really get what you're saying, to be honest. It just seems waaay hyperbolic.


Men value a little stoicism and some degree of emotional toughness. As politically incorrect as this may be, sometimes rigorous therapy and depression medication isn't the best way to deal with your problems. I know this is hard to believe, but sometimes confronting your problems head-on and dealing with them personally builds strength and wisdom. To be clear, in some cases treatment and medication ARE the necessary measures, especially with those involving real PTSD. But I refuse to believe that emotional toughness shouldn't be encouraged and admired in men.

Mental sickness is much like physical sickness.

If you feel like shit and feel like you can sleep it off, do so.

If you feel like shit but think you need some Tylenol do so.

If you feel like shit and need to go to the doctor, well do so.

Same with mental sickness.

If you face a harsh event and can stick through it and come out stronger, then do it.

If you can but have to cry do so.

If you can't then go see a psychologist/trist.

I completely agree that some people should avoid using medications which has been more custom (most likely due to doctors on extra pay), but it isn't something that one should take lightly and when you need help you need help. Masking your problems is rarely the right way to go about things (similar to being really sick).

 

[AlimNassor]

It's the way it's always been. People like to pretend men were always badass, that couldn't be further from the truth. Most men were never badass alpha males. it's why i hate it when guy men have to pretend to be badasses to impress others. Face it you will never be Rambo, you will never be a true badass. It annoys me so much when men my age have to pretend they're tough, when deep down they're miserable. Still we need badass alphas in hollywood. Nobody wants to come home and watch a grown man cry for 2 hours, we want Rambo or Arnold kicking ass.

 

[Plywood]

So the reaction to a 14 year-old attention whore is to uphold rigid gender roles?

I think there was something lost in our communication here, I am agreeing with you that the reason there was a problem there was because the kid is an attention whore. You felt this way too, yes?

 

[Cringe Humor]

Masculinity as it has been defined in the past always has been politically incorrect. Defining a person's actions/persona based on gender isn't good for society.

Masculinity isn't a "persona" or a set of actions. It's more of a set of values and attributes.


Then again, unlike most on this site, I'm not of the opinion that gender is something that is simply chosen by the individual. Evolutionary psychology and common sense make this position untenable for me.

 

[tiff]

I think there was something lost in our communication here, I am agreeing with you that the reason there was a problem there was because the kid is an attention whore. You felt this way too, yes?

I didn't like that he just did it for attention, yeah, I'm just trying to figure out where it enters this discussion.

 

[dream]

Which is what everyone was saying.

And, of course, it became a platform for people to show how amazingly tolerant they are.

That's what I think people react to. There's an overwhelming sentiment that reinforcing gender stereotypes means you're narrow-minded at best and implicitly bigoted at worse. It doesn't. It just means you are from a culture with defined norms.

It's like...I think women should be paid exactly as much as men are paid for the same job. I think men should be able to cook. I get mani/pedis because I am very vain and take pride in my appearance.

But when you start talking about how parents that enforce a genderless upbringing on their children (rather than conforming to whatever gender roles they'd otherwise conform to), that's retarded. When you watch My Little Pony, that's fucking retarded. When you say a teenage boy should be allowed to go to school in drag just to be an attention whore because sending him home infringes on some nebulous idea of gender identity, that's retarded. When you talk about how men with some degree of emotional toughness do it by self-medicating and internalizing their anguish, that's retarded.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

This post seems to be saturated with feminist angst. I think it's quite a bit silly to think that men valuing and encouraging masculinity is all part of some devious, subversive plot to keep women down or something. And then you make an allusion to the civil rights movement. Uhh.. what?

Lay off of the Mad Men episodes, perhaps.

Or perhaps you can use some common sense?


You don't need a devious, subversive, master conspiracy to common sense biology. People do not like it when their power and influence is being redistributed, this is basic human biology. Many whites do not like seeing minorities receiving programs or opportunities they have. This is also why a share of white conservatives see the 1950's as the American glory days, because well thats when whites had much more (well more than now) influence in the country. Same with women, they are gaining power and a share of men are getting uncomfortable. This imbalance of power has been a running theme since the dawn of human history.

It's the way it's always been. People like to pretend men were always badass, that couldn't be further from the truth. Most men were never badass alpha males. it's why i hate it when guy men have to pretend to be badasses to impress others. Face it you will never be Rambo, you will never be a true badass. It annoys me so much when men my age have to pretend they're tough, when deep down they're miserable. Still we need badass alphas in hollywood. Nobody wants to come home and watch a grown man cry for 2 hours, we want Rambo or Arnold kicking ass.

I always wonder this too.

I wonder if gamers 20 years from now (after more females have entered the gaming space) are playing Gears of War and Bulletstorm and will be like "man, young males of that day must have been real bad asses".

 

[tiff]

And, of course, it became a platform for people to show how amazingly tolerant they are.

That's what I think people react to. There's an overwhelming sentiment that reinforcing gender stereotypes means you're narrow-minded at best and implicitly bigoted at worse. It doesn't. It just means you are from a culture with defined norms.

It's like...I think women should be paid exactly as much as men are paid for the same job. I think men should be able to cook. I get mani/pedis because I am very vain and take pride in my appearance.

But when you start talking about how parents that enforce a genderless upbringing on their children (rather than conforming to whatever gender roles they'd otherwise conform to), that's retarded. When you watch My Little Pony, that's fucking retarded. When you say a teenage boy should be allowed to go to school in drag just to be an attention whore because sending him home infringes on some nebulous idea of gender identity, that's retarded. When you talk about how men with some degree of emotional toughness do it by self-medicating and internalizing their anguish, that's retarded.

Sounds pretty narrow-minded to me.

 

[Cringe Humor]

Or perhaps you can use some common sense?


You don't need a devious, subversive, master conspiracy to common sense biology. People do not like it when their power and influence is being redistributed, this is basic human biology. Many whites do not like seeing minorities receiving programs or opportunities they have. This is also why a share of white conservatives see the 1950's as the American glory days, because well thats when whites had much more (well more than now) influence in the country. Same with women, they are gaining power and a share of men are getting uncomfortable. This imbalance of power has been a running theme since the dawn of human history.

Somehow you've managed to bring political conservatism and racism into a discussion on masculinity. This is infantile and predictable, so I won't even address it.

I will, however, point out the extreme irony of someone using "common sense biology" as an argument against masculinity.

 

[dream]

It's the way it's always been. People like to pretend men were always badass, that couldn't be further from the truth. Most men were never badass alpha males. it's why i hate it when guy men have to pretend to be badasses to impress others. Face it you will never be Rambo, you will never be a true badass. It annoys me so much when men my age have to pretend they're tough, when deep down they're miserable. Still we need badass alphas in hollywood. Nobody wants to come home and watch a grown man cry for 2 hours, we want Rambo or Arnold kicking ass.

You're taking it to extremes, though. There's a huge gulf between killing 30 men with only a combat knife and not emotionally falling to pieces when your family is in a crisis.

 

[CornBurrito]

As politically incorrect as this may be, sometimes rigorous therapy and depression medication aren't the best ways to deal with your problems.

Evolutionary psychology and common sense makes this position untenable for me.

I find it hilarious that you ignore years of psychological research in what is probably one of the more empirical branch of psychology, and yet you buy into evolutionary psychology, a field filled with fun sounding hypotheses with no real evidence backing them up.

Let me guess, you think that "depression" is just another word for "really bummed out."

Your statement isn't "politically incorrect" it is just incorrect.

If someone suffers from actual clinical depression it isn't something you can just "man up and deal with it."

Masculinity isn't a "persona" or a set of actions. It's more of a set of values and attributes.

Is there a chance you could explain masculinity?

What values, and what attributes?

Why are these inherently manly?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Despite the chorus of "yeah!!!"s following this post, I'm going to call a bit of hyperbole on this.

First of all, your assertion that manhood = drinking your problems away is one hell of a stretch. And then you go on some incoherent tangent about sexual abuse and neglect. I don't really get what you're saying, to be honest. It just seems waaay hyperbolic.


Men value a little stoicism and some degree of emotional toughness. As politically incorrect as this may be, sometimes rigorous therapy and depression medication aren't the best ways to deal with your problems. I know this is hard to believe, but sometimes confronting your problems head-on and dealing with them personally builds strength and wisdom. To be clear, in some cases treatment and medication ARE the necessary measures, especially with those involving real PTSD. But I refuse to believe that emotional toughness shouldn't be encouraged and admired in men.

Why should men only be allowed to be emotionally tough? And why is it frowned upon if a man is not? That's why it's bullshit. Masculinity is FAR from some set of static attributes.

And it never has been.

 

[tiff]

Is there a chance you could explain masculinity?

What values, and what attributes?

Why are these inherently manly?

And what of men who don't have some or even most of these attributes?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Somehow you've managed to bring political conservatism and racism into a discussion on masculinity. This is infantile and predictable, so I won't even address it.

Your arguments are so rock solid. You constantly call my posts as "extreme" without explaining why as well as twist and mash my words and claim that I stated things that I didn't.

I will, however, point out the extreme irony of someone using "common sense biology" as an argument against masculinity.

Argument against masculinity? What the hell are you talking about? Where in any of my posts have I said "masculinity is bad?"

Are you even taking time to read my posts? I'm sorry but I'm just imagining someone who got all worked up from reading a post that could be considered "feminist" and is now on attack mode.

And yes I have much education in psychology as well as evolutionary psychology in case you were wondering.

Why should men only be allowed to be emotionally tough? And why is it frowned upon if a man is not? That's why it's bullshit. Masculinity is FAR from some set of static attributes.

And it never has been.

The past was infamous with tons of mental health problems.

Nonsense most people on this site seem generally active and healthy, at least OT side: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418911

Of course people who look decent will post pictures of themselves.

Either way I was joking. But I doubt that many in this site are built like a badboy *stretches chest*

 

[Koburb]

changing your oil because you think it makes you a man? It makes you an idiot is what it does. Pay the 20 bucks and take it somewhere. Its not worth the time and hassle of changing it and disposing of the dirty oil.

Can you point out the magic land where an oil change is $20? Second you are a pussy plain and simple. Time and hassle? lol I guess when you are a pussy you don't have the strength to pull a drain plug or slip a bucket under your car. It takes 20 minutes to do it and saves a tonne of money. It takes less time than the time it takes you to brush your mothers hair before bedtime. And the possible thousands of dollars you can save cause you can use a wrench is a bonus.

 

[TheKyle07]

Rambo wept like a baby at the end of First Blood.

 

[Lionheart1337]

I think it's more of a reaction to ridiculous things like "if a 14 year old boy wants to wear a dress to school solely for attention then he should be allowed to do so because not allowing him to reinforces gender stereotypes."

It's this kind of gender ambiguity that bugs me, and also the assumption that just because we have expectations of each other as men and as women, this is somehow misogynistic or authoritarian.

Gender roles aren't some fallacy of tradition or a random, arbitrary thing, they largely if not entirely come from what separates the sexes (and I specifically say sexes), tendencies and impulses, and have been around for ages.

You don't receive a "role" just because (life is unfair), or by the whim or your male overlords, this is ages of progress, and I understand that there are people these days that don't really care for it, but if you can't respect those that embrace it/take it on gladly and would dismiss them as ignorant, I don't know what to say to you.

Woman expect men to carry heavy things and generally handle most of the physical labor. Is this sexist because "IM A MAN AND I AM MY OWN PERSON I DONT EXIST WITHIN THE CONFINES OF GENDER"? No, it's perfectly reasonable, men tend to be a lot stronger. You're not showing an ability to exist outside of yourself if you shun these kinds of things. Yes you didn't ask for this true, but sooner or later you have to take some responsibility.......and man up.

 

[CornBurrito]

Second you are a pussy plain and simple. Time and hassle? lol I guess when you are a pussy you don't have the strength to pull a drain plug or slip a bucket under your car. It takes 20 minutes to do it and saves a tonne of money. It takes less time than the time it takes you to brush your mothers hair before bedtime. And the possible thousands of dollars you can save cause you can use a wrench is a bonus.

Pussy implies that these are traits that women typically have. Are you saying that all women are lazy and weak? Do they also typically live with their mothers (I guess so since women shouldn't pursue higher education in your mind)?

Your choice of language shows that you are sexist.

INB4: PC GONE MAD because I used the S word.

 

[tiff]

Can you point out the magic land where an oil change is $20? Second you are a pussy plain and simple. Time and hassle? lol I guess when you are a pussy you don't have the strength to pull a drain plug or slip a bucket under your car. It takes 20 minutes to do it and saves a tonne of money. It takes less time than the time it takes you to brush your mothers hair before bedtime. And the possible thousands of dollars you can save cause you can use a wrench is a bonus.

This is the problem with gender roles. Right here.

 

[dream]

And what of men who don't have some or even most of these attributes?

They're still men. Not lesser men, just different men.

I don't think emotional toughness defines a man -- I just think it's a good quality to have. My problem is with the idea that believing a man can benefit from not falling apart somehow infringes on a more delicate man's gender identity.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Hey, guys, just a heads up--stop insulting each other. Don't call each other idiots, don't call each other pussies, don't insult each other. Also, someone insulting you is not a free pass to insult them. Also, you don't get one last kick at the cat because you've been told to stop but "he has the last word and I can't let myself go unavenged"--just drop the insults.