So I'm almost done with the extremely engaging and uniqueRiviera: The Promised Land, and I've set my sights on the other titles in the series. I briefly dabbled in Knights in the Nightmare a while ago, but I had NO idea what was going on and was massively confused as to how to play the game. Some games are also Japan only, like Gloria Union, which I'm afraid of missing out on, especially if they're part of an overarching story.
The two titles in the OP are what I'm most curious about. How well do they tie into Riviera? Will they give the same "vibe" as Riviera? I was a huge fan of the Valkyrie Profile-esque focus on heaven and ragnarok in the first game, but the others don't seem to focus on that as much. I've looked up the music from each game and it definitely holds up, and they also seem to use the same art style, which is another plus.
I enjoyed Yggdra Union personally, it's a interesting take on the SRPG. Never tried Gunghir, Knights In the Nightmare killed the series for me. Yggdra deals mostly with the humans, so it's not very Riviera-esque, I don't think they even mention gods or angels or whatever the hell the other factions are. It's just dudes killing each other. Maybe that's why I liked it.
I had Riviera back when it launched, but I didn't stick with it. One game I enjoyed was PoPoLoCrois and it must be because it reminds me more of a general package than something completely new. Knights in the Nightmare felt neat, but playing it was sorta tough. It's a very unique way of playing a game and I just need to restart it one of these days.
Combat in Knights in the Nightmare starts to make sense before too long. You don't have to worry about equipment really because you can just do chapters in Leveling mode and get tons of them. But the stat system/ TranSoul can be overwhelming, and it gets seriously tough later (bosses will kill your units in one hit if you keep them active too long and you will very likely want to restart the battle). You need to turn off any need to collect and optimize everything to get through it, but once you do that it's more challenging than confusing.
Yggdra Union is the only SRPG to actually require strategy. It's also one of the hardest, most frustrating games I've ever played if you're playing the GBA version. The PSP version was significantly toned down in comparison. I actually had to restart my game at a the half-way point because I couldn't beat the level.
A friend of mine beat it when it was new because he's an anal-retentive completionist who was on a ZoE kick at the time, but I guarantee you if I phoned him up right now and asked him how it was, he would tell me it was just "okay."
Yggdra Union is the only SRPG to actually require strategy. It's also one of the hardest, most frustrating games I've ever played if you're playing the GBA version. The PSP version was significantly toned down in comparison. I actually had to restart my game at a the half-way point because I couldn't beat the level.
And this... what? Yggdra's combat system is pretty damn unique. Not by the books at all. Gugnir, while solid, is more of a 'by-the-books' srpg, but Yggdra has complex battles with a unique combat mechancis, a unique card system, etc.
We're talking about Sting games here... very few of their games are 'by the books' or 'cookie cutter'. They take chances and create unique systems the vast majority of the time.
[that said, they also like their missables, which annoys me]
Eh, it's basically Langrisser with individual leaders. The card abilities are fun, but it got old fast, and the story isn't nearly as compelling as Riviera or KitN's. KitN legitimately does something I've never seen anything quite like, which was why I loved Riviera.
I loved Riviera but that's as far as I could get with the series. Yggdra Union was just underwhelming to me and Knights had way too much system bloat for me which is a shame because I loved the game's aesthetic.
Yggdra Union is amazing IMO. It does require strategy and neglecting to level up players early on will come to bite you hard later. I love the real time strategy and how there's no way to go back and redo something you missed.
I didn't give KitN enough time to warm up to the game, but I get the feel that the strategy is on par w Yggdra Union.
The battle system is definitely epic.
As far as the games tying in with each other, I have no idea since I only really played YU
Yeah, they're worth it. Good music, great pixel graphics, interesting game systems. The only one I haven't beat is Gungnir because it was just too damn hard. Seriously, do not play it on advanced. It is absolutely the hardest SRPG I've ever played except for Hector Hard mode in the first (US) fire emblem.
My favorite part about Yddra Union was the story, and the fact that it makes you question whether your actions are really heroic, or whether you're no better than the game's villain.
So the two untranslated prequels to Yggdra - how important, story-wise, are they? I don't want to get burned by getting invested in an unfinished story.
So the two untranslated prequels to Yggdra - how important, story-wise, are they? I don't want to get burned by getting invested in an unfinished story.
So the two untranslated prequels to Yggdra - how important, story-wise, are they? I don't want to get burned by getting invested in an unfinished story.
So the two untranslated prequels to Yggdra - how important, story-wise, are they? I don't want to get burned by getting invested in an unfinished story.
I think they're totally worth it. I played them back in the day, and what really drew me to them was a combination of extremely unique gameplay, fitting OSTs and the artwork. I personally preferred Yggdra Union out of the three games I played (riviera, yggdra and knights in the nightmare). Has a bit of a steep learning curve, but every bit worth it.
Knights in the Nightmare has the atmosphere I've seen in any RPG or strategy game, hands down. All of the gameplay system reinforce the feelings of despair and inevitability. It's also got a beautiful, haunting title screen. The combat system is poorly explained, but it's actually really fun once you get used to it.
I really love Yggdra Union because its main gameplay mechanic (or gimmick, I guess) really prioritizes unit positioning and terrain. It's an interesting take on the usual SRPG formula. It's also hard as balls (on the GBA version, at least).
I haven't played too much of Gungnir, but it seemed like a fairly by-the-books SRPG.
Too bad STiNG forgot how to make good games after Gungnir.
Riviera is a fantastic game. I got it back after it came out and really loved the game; it's original in some interesting ways, and I thought it was one of the best RPGs on the GBA. This made me excited for its followups once the game became a series, but Sting keeps changing genres, and never has recaptured Riviera's greatness, unfortunately. I mean, I love strategy games, I like the genre more than RPGs for sure, but why are all of Riviera's sequels strategy games, and not RPGs? Why do none play anything at all like Riviera? And why are tehy all so depressing in their stories? Riviera has its dark moments, but Yggdra and Knights in the Nightmare are just constant tragedy! They go way too far with that. Yggdra particularly really rubbed me the wrong way tonally, and the gameplay is seriously flawed as well, particularly on GBA where I played it.
So yeah, the first game is Riviera. It's a great RPG with some adventure game elements. The story has a good mix of comedy and serious parts. It's very anime and isn't hugely original, but it is good. The cast is great and help make the game fun to play. I like the battle system as well. The powerbars are a good system, and FE-like weapon degradation does work when combined with the additional matches you can play in the pause menu that do not use up your items. I also like the screen-by-screen way you explore the world. That all gives the game a unique feel, and it's really too bad that I haven't seen any RPGs since with a similar gameplay style to them. It's a fantastic game, and easily the best game in the series.
Next game Yggra Union. I was excited for the game and got it soon after release, but it seriously disappointed me. This game is an overly depressing strategy game with lots of major flaws and bad design decisions. Sure, it's still got that Dept.Heaven series style, but if you want to play a great GBA strategy game, stick to the Fire Emblem series. Some of the biggest problems with this game are: the no-good super-dark-with-random-anime-nonsense tone of the game; the story and characters
(Yggdra is a violent idiot (I won't say any more, too many spoilers), the plot is implausible and hard to believe (stop killing everyone for a second and talk to people and maybe it could have been sorted out...), the anime-humor and violent drama do not always mix well, and more)
; the invincible enemies that the game doesn't tell you can't be killed; the parts where you have to stand there for X number of turns taking damage, with no way to escape or fight back; the finite amounts of healing items you get in a game where characters do NOT heal between levels, there is no way to heal other than to use your very limited store of items (this is one of the worst things about the game!);
Having Ygggdra get kidnapped for a bunch of chapters in the middle of the game and you play with the rest of the party without her -- yeah, I don't like her much, but would a game do this with a male protagonist? I'm skeptical...
; and the gameplay, which is okay but nowhere near as compelling as GBA Fire Emblem. It's all about lining up characters in Unions, and the gimmick gets repetitive after a while, if you're still playing after all of the stupid unfair stuff. On PSP they fix some of the bigger bugs and design flaws, like the unmarked invincible enemies and more, but it's still the same basic game I have a lot of problems with. When it's good, YU can be an okay game, and I do like the style and original game mechanics. It might be worth trying on PSP (or GBA if you like suffering)... but it's an awful "sequel" and ultimately I found it quite disappointing. The stupid and too-dark story really pushes it over the edge, I pretty much hate this games' plot, but the gameplay's average at best even aside from that. Even on the PSP with the GBA versions' numerous flaws (I'm sure I'm forgetting some, it's been a while!) mostly fixed, it's still not great. I do not like this game; YU is a below-average game and easily it's the worst game in the Dept.Heaven series. Oh yeah, and the game is dark in more than just tone -- when I got this game my only GBA was the original model, and some text and stuff is so dimly colored that it's basically invisible on that screen. This is why most GBA games have bright palettes, so you can actually see on the first model!
Then came three YU spinoffs we didn't get. If they're like the first one, I don't mind much that they weren't localized. I wish that Sting had made sequels for the other, better Dept.Heaven games instead.
After the disappointment that was Yggdra Union, I was not nearly as hyped for Knights in the Nightmare as I had been YU. Fortunately though, it's a pretty good game! The story is again really dark as it is about the destruction of a castle and the last thoughts of people who lived there from before disaster overtook them, but it actually sort of makes sense this time, instead of the constant stupid nonsense of YU. While I am not usually one to like this kind of plot, it works here. The game is much more serious than YU, and that helps it. The main character is also a LOT better than awful Yggdra. The gameplay is better as well. KitN is a new idea again, this time part grid-based strategy game and part bullet-hell shooter. It was designed for the DS, and that's the version to play. I have it for PSP as well and it's okay there, but you want to play the game on DS, that's how the game is supposed to control. I like both strategy games and shooters, and they actually came up with a hybrid that works well here. Somehow dodging bullets while also playing a solid (not amazing, but solid) strategy game is pretty fun. This is a tough game, but it feels a bit less unfair than YU; they did not repeat that games' worse issues. KitN is not a happy game but I absolutely recommend it, it's great.
After some time passed, the last Dept.Heaven finally released a few years ago in Gungnir. This time, the game is a fairly traditional tactical strategy game, in the FF Tactics/Disgaea molds. This game is the least original and unique of all four games, and that is a negative -- if you want something new and different, like the other games are, you won't really find it here. Tonally this game is dark, but not quite as utterly bleak as the last two. I found the story okay, but not quite as interesting as Riviera's or KitN's. I haven't played this game as much as I did the others, I lost interest partway through. Still, it's worth picking up, and it is something I mean to get back to. The game is a solid, fun tactical strategy game with an okay story, solid gameplay and level designs, and the usual great Dept.Heaven series visual style. It is too bad that they didn't innovate as much with this one, but at least the end product is solid, unlike YU.
So yeah, I have mixed feelings for these games, but do like them overall. I hope the series returns, it'd be great to see more games in this universe again. More Riviera and Knights in the Nightmare, particularly, please! Those two games are fantastic and are ideas that should return. Don't make more Yggdra Union, though, there's far too much of that game as it is.
Played through Riviera on the GBA and loved it. The battle system was unique, but could be broken very quickly and easily.
I liked what I played of Yggdra Union, I just felt like I kept fucking up item usage and never knew what items to keep for battle or what items to use to heal so I kept losing units and could never finish some of the early chapters.
Knights in the Knighmare was good from what I played. Put a lot of time into it and it was a pretty neat take on bullet hell and RPG.
I only touched Gungnir briefly.
A damn shame St!ng got drawn into working on Idea Factory garbage as opposed to continuing work on DoH games.
Only one I've played is Gungnir, but I liked it quite a bit. Sting is great at SRPGs, and Gungnir is no exception. If you like the genre you will probably like it, it's also pretty cheap on PSN so there isn't much to lose.
I've replayed YU and KitN the most of the four main entries, so I'd absolutely recommend those two. Yggdra Union was a lot of fun to plan out moves in and try ot optimize encounters(though I would imagine playing it blind would probably be pretty annoying), and Knights just oozed style everywhere. I'm sure you could find some good explanations of all the systems and familiarize yourself with them rather quickly, especially since it comes with a tutorial. As long as you're able to maneuver through bullet patterns and pick reasonably appropriate units/weapons, you'll breeze through the game.
None of the other games are "connected" to Riviera in the sense that you'd go meet up with Ein and friends at some point and talk about how much of a jerk dragon zombies can be. Instead the series maintains the same 'heaven' and 'hell', with a bunch of random unrelated 'worlds' sandwiched between both of them that may or may not invoke some direct contact. I think KitN does the most with the connections outside of Riviera. YU is less flagrant about it and Gungnir doesn't really do much with it, outside of its main story gimmick. And as others have said, GU and BU are unrelated nonsense.
And Gungnir, while a bit generic looking, is still a fun game. I didn't feel like it was nearly as compelling as the others, but the underlying complexity in the gameplay is definitely still there. Relative positions of units for combos and bonuses(think VPDS), tons of different weapons and armor that all behave differently, and all sorts of status effects and secondary effects on skills and weapons that you can goof around with for loads of fun. Knocking enemies outside of the stage was just as much fun as throwing things out of bounds was in Phantom Brave, and you can even pinball enemies infinitely under certain conditions, forcing them to bounce into each other until something dies from bounce-damage. If you're still intimidated by KitN after some research, definitely give that a try.
Their music is definitely great(except for Gungnir, I barely remember any of that), but I think KitN would have the closest VP "vibe" you're looking for.
I'm just going to echo the overall sentiment and say riviera was definitely their best game. I like the other ones too but they are about as niche gaming as you can get. Lots of little systems to learn and get the hang of.
Thanks for the input all, especially Black Falcon for the very comprehensive post. I think I will try Knights again after I'm done with Riviera. It's too bad that the series peaked at the very beginning.
That second link there in particular is a good summation of my thoughts on the game's problems. In my post in this thread I forgot about the items that you can only get by putting a specific character on a specific space on a specific turn, for example, with the game giving you absolutely no hint that any item exists as spaces are not marked like that. And you'll need every item you can get, for sure. Basically, if playing Yggdra, play it with a game guide on hand, or you will have a somewhat miserable time. The PSP version is better, particularly in marking invincible enemies I believe (I do have it, but haven't played too much of it, I don't like the game enough to really want to replay it...), but it's still flawed.
That there's so much to say about the game is perhaps a positive, though... I consider it a failure, but it is at least an interesting failure.
Riviera is definitely the easiest game in the series by far, but it's a lot of fun so I don't mind at all! Games don't need to be hard to be good.
[/quote]I liked what I played of Yggdra Union, I just felt like I kept fucking up item usage and never knew what items to keep for battle or what items to use to heal so I kept losing units and could never finish some of the early chapters.[/quote]
The game is basically designed to be as obtuse and confusing as possible, unless you've looked up in a guide where you need to put your characters to get items, which enemies are invincible and which aren't, etc.
Knights in the Knighmare was good from what I played. Put a lot of time into it and it was a pretty neat take on bullet hell and RPG.
It's much worse than just 'pretty annoying'. YU is the epitome of one of those obtuse games that's only playable with a guide. Some people don't mind this, but I prefer games to actually be playable without relying on an external guide for half of the necessary info...
I'm just going to echo the overall sentiment and say riviera was definitely their best game. I like the other ones too but they are about as niche gaming as you can get. Lots of little systems to learn and get the hang of.
I didn't like Riveria that much. It was... interesting? I wasn't too much of a fan of the limited use weapons nor the odd branching pathline. It was a very interesting idea, and I wanted to love it, but the sheer number of missables hurt my head.
I tried to play the KitK psp version, because visually it looked amazing, but it never clicked.
Yggdra is amazing. Missables are still a pain, but the srpg style warfare with squad based combat was very cool and kept me engaged.
Gungnir was good, until i fully understand how the freaking turn based was working, i don't know i thought it was stupid... and not well balance at all.
Riveria is pretty good if you like the old RPG choice book
Yggdra series is very good, but there are some weird design (or random thing i never understood) for damage calculation...
Knights in the Nightmare is way to complicated and ruled don't seem to always apply... it just never clicked for me...
