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Arizona Proposes Secession Bill... (kind of)

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LocoMrPollock

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Arizona legislatures continue to show that they have no real interest in being part of a growingly diverse and complex national and global community. First it was SB 1070. Then it was the birther bill. Now Russell Pearce, President of the Arizona State Senate and xenophobe behind SB 1070 is proposing legislation that would allow the state to nullify federal law.

Nullification measures are growing in popularity among hard-right legislatures and seen as a way to push the idea of secession without the messy business of actually having to secede, or without forcing the state to opt out entirely of generous federal funding.

The measure, SB 1433 creates a 12-member committee within the state legislature that could "vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the people to the federal government."

The committee would render their decision on, essentially, the constitutionality of a federal regulation and then pass their recommendation to the full Legislature who would then vote on the measure.

There's a lot wrong with this measure, starting with the fundamental misunderstanding of the separation of powers. It is not up to the legislature to determine what acts are or are not outside the scope of power. That is the job of the judiciary.

It also fundamentally misunderstands the nature of the supremacy clause in the Constitution that quite clearly sets forth that when a state and federal law come into conflict federal law wins. There's no room for "interpretation" on these measures and indeed, the framers made it clear, after the failed experiment that was the Articles of Confederation, that in order for this nation to function as a nation rather than a mere collection of independent nation-states, federal law would be the supreme law of the land.

Pearce and his co-sponsers would do well to re-take their high school civics class. It's one thing to suggest the federal government is failing to do its job in enforcing immigration laws, for example. But its another thing entirely to anoint yourself and your sympathizers as constitutional decision-makers and usurp the role of the state and federal judiciary.
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Source

You can read the full text of the legislation here.
 
Supremacy Clause is listening to "By The Time I Get to Arizona" on repeated and getting angry.
 
I would not want to be the guy in charge of dealing with a state like this were it to actually vote on such a measure.
 
Bring on a nullification crisis.
jackson.jpg
 
Yes, I'm sure the courts are going to allow a bill that sets up a legislative committee to do the Judiciary's job.

But what if the committee votes to ignore the court ruling! Oh shit!
 
Why have far-right legislatures over the last few months decided to deem themselves the heads of determining what's constitutional and what's not? That's the judicial branch's role, not the legislative branch's. You'd think people who fellate the constitution in every sentence would at least understand the separation of powers. I'm not even sure these kinds of rules like the new house's rule to include the provision of the constitution that makes a bill constitutional are actually, well, constitutional (Well, that's a lie. It's constitutional, but basically empty symbolism as it is non-binding.)
 
Would it be so bad if we just went ahead and split the country up? There is almost no middle ground left between the parties and it's obvious that Republicans dont want to live with Democrats anymore. A good geographical split would be the Mississippi river, but politically we are still mostly split to the North and South.

Right now this country is like a married couple who hate each other but dont have the courage or common sense to just go ahead and file for divorce.
 
I <3 Memes said:
Would it be so bad if we just went ahead and split the country up? There is almost no middle ground left between the parties and it's obvious that Republicans dont want to live with Democrats anymore. A good geographical split would be the Mississippi river, but politically we are still mostly split to the North and South. .
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If the two 'halves' of the country can't exist with each other in the same country, do you really, honestly think that is would work with two separate countries next to each other?
 
GaimeGuy said:
Why have far-right legislatures over the last few months decided to deem themselves the heads of determining what's constitutional and what's not? That's the judicial branch's role, not the legislative branch's. You'd think people who fellate the constitution in every sentence would at least understand the separation of powers. I'm not even sure these kinds of rules like the new house's rule to include the provision of the constitution that makes a bill constitutional are actually, well, constitutional (Well, that's a lie. It's constitutional, but basically empty symbolism as it is non-binding.)
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They don't give a fuck about the content of the constitution, they just like the idea of a magic book. It's like "Christians" who exclusively read from the nastier parts of the Old Testament, because Jesus' actual message is too hippy.
 
BobTheFork said:
If the two 'halves' of the country can't exist with each other in the same country, do you really, honestly think that is would work with two separate countries next to each other?
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It wouldn't be that big of a problem. I can see an independent right-wing America being kind of scary, but the liberal America would likely be the more powerful.

I think our union is greatly stronger than people suppose, though.
 
GaimeGuy said:
Why have far-right legislatures over the last few months decided to deem themselves the heads of determining what's constitutional and what's not? That's the judicial branch's role, not the legislative branch's. You'd think people who fellate the constitution in every sentence would at least understand the separation of powers. I'm not even sure these kinds of rules like the new house's rule to include the provision of the constitution that makes a bill constitutional are actually, well, constitutional (Well, that's a lie. It's constitutional, but basically empty symbolism as it is non-binding.)
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Well, if someone disagrees with you, they must be wrong. It's pretty intuitive.
 
LocoMrPollock said:
Nullification measures are growing in popularity among hard-right legislatures and seen as a way to push the idea of secession without the messy business of actually having to secede, or without forcing the state to opt out entirely of generous federal funding.
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In other words: "We want nothing to do with you, but keep sending us that money we need so badly."
 
mj1108 said:
In other words: "We want nothing to do with you, but keep sending us that money we need so badly."
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Yep. They're going to want alimony. Problem is that by doing this, they're playing their hand that we aren't Arizona's baby-daddy.
 
I <3 Memes said:
Would it be so bad if we just went ahead and split the country up? There is almost no middle ground left between the parties and it's obvious that Republicans dont want to live with Democrats anymore. A good geographical split would be the Mississippi river, but politically we are still mostly split to the North and South.

Right now this country is like a married couple who hate each other but dont have the courage or common sense to just go ahead and file for divorce.
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Do you suggest that after the split all democrats have to move into the one half, and all republicans into the other half, regardless of where they lived previously?
 
xbhaskarx said:
What if Arizona left the US and was then invaded by Mexico?

Shymalantwist.gif
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Mexcio to claim to have evidence of WMD's in Arizona?

garywhittatwist.jpg
 
They don't need to introduce a bill to secede.

Also SMH at this bill. Those dumb grandstanding fucks. I love the irony of an unconstitutional bill that blasts the separation of powers for their own ends. If they have such little regard for the legal framework of this country, they should just go for it and create a Christian dictatorship.
 
ScrabbleDude said:
Do you suggest that after the split all democrats have to move into the one half, and all republicans into the other half, regardless of where they lived previously?
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Sure. And everybody else can pick a side.
 
Actually if it wouldn't just destroy our economies I think the US might be better off split into about four.

But really secession is a bit silly nowadays. It'd be economic suicide. Back in the civil war days the south thought (and maybe rightly) they could be economically self sufficient. I don't think they can think that anymore. Arizona least of all.
 
Well, I can certainly see the appeal of losing one of our most consistently embarrassing states. I imagine that the High Priest of the God's Republic of Arizona would be a high-functioning autistic libertarian, and the median age of its armed forces would be about 57.
 
ChiTownBuffalo said:
Supremacy Clause is listening to "By The Time I Get to Arizona" on repeated and getting angry.
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Everytime I think of Arizona or when it pops up in the news, I think of "By the Time I Get to Arizona." And then I get more angry thinking about how dumb Arizona is.
 
When did Arizona take this drastic shift in politics are was it always like this? Don't ever remember them being in the news for some of wacko crap we been hearing about lately.
 
Now Russell Pearce, President of the Arizona State Senate and xenophobe behind SB 1070 is proposing legislation that would allow the state to nullify federal law.
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Why is it that the people who claim to revere the constitution most have no fucking idea what it actually says?
 
LQX said:
When did Arizona take this drastic shift in politics are was it always like this? Don't ever remember them being in the news for some of wacko crap we been hearing about lately.
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6Q9OU.jpg
 
LQX said:
When did Arizona take this drastic shift in politics are was it always like this? Don't ever remember them being in the news for some of wacko crap we been hearing about lately.
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pretty much since brewer became governor. arizona has always been a gun-crzy state with a fierce independent streak but not so much a traditional right-wing wacko state. don't forgot JANET FREAKING NAPOLITANO used to be the governor before you go writing off AZ as always far-right-leaning.
 
Trurl said:
It wouldn't be that big of a problem. I can see an independent right-wing America being kind of scary, but the liberal America would likely be the more powerful.

I think our union is greatly stronger than people suppose, though.
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But if the nation splits on issues like civil liberty and equal rights, there would instantly be total hostility towards each other. Just the idea of basic trade would be insane and borders would be impossible to keep in any way. At this point a new autonomous nation springing up in the middle of America is the worst idea imaginable.
 
AstroLad said:
pretty much since brewer became governor. arizona has always been a gun-crzy state with a fierce independent streak but not so much a traditional right-wing wacko state. don't forgot JANET FREAKING NAPOLITANO used to be the governor before you go writing off AZ as always far-right-leaning.
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Quoted for truth. Having lived here most of my life I have never hated this state more than I have then now. Jan Brewer is the biggest pile of shit. I dont understand why anyone in their right mind would keep her in office. My wife and I are seriously contemplating on moving thats how much its bothered me.
 
SayItWithMe said:
Quoted for truth. Having lived here most of my life I have never hated this state more than I have then now. Jan Brewer is the biggest pile of shit. I dont understand why anyone in their right mind would keep her in office. My wife and I are seriously contemplating on moving thats how much its bothered me.
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Why would you comtemplate leaving? It's your job to vote for change in the next election, not leave the state and hope the problem fixes itself.
 
How can Republicans claim to be so patriotic, the "real Americans," yet continually threaten to bail when things don't go their way. Seems the opposite of patriotism to me.
 
Mollymauk said:
How can Republicans claim to be so patriotic, the "real Americans," yet continually threaten to bail when things don't go their way. Seems the opposite of patriotism to me.
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They are the patriots of the TRUE FOUNDING FATHER'S AMERICA.
 
Suairyu said:
Sort of relevant question:

Do states have the power to break off from the USA?
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Legally: No.

Realistically: If they can get the people on their side and manage to muster up an army large enough to defend them from the US Army, who will invade to maintain its claim to the state, they could. This is just highly implausible, and most likely only Alaska of all the States and US Territories has enough of a geographical advantage to do it.

How can Republicans claim to be so patriotic, the "real Americans," yet continually threaten to bail when things don't go their way. Seems the opposite of patriotism to me.
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They support State rights over the now commonly accepted "Federal > State"?
 
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