Hybrid controls it is for me then lol
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ARMS Global Testpunch Thread: Let's see if this has LEGS
- Thread starter donkey show
- Start date
Hybrid controls it is for me then lol
Principate
Saint Titanfall
That's extremely odd considering every single tournament they had there was no items.
It's probably the tournament standard as opposed to like the online standard.
But yeah, I will live in fear of not being able to possess the super area lol
Magnet_Man
Member
That is so fucking stupid.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
There are many decisions made that make no sense, like why I need to click left analog to block as opposed to holding a button lol
Fack, no training mode, so I gotta find someone to check setups.
pls
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Goddamn it I love both of those you brilliant bastard.
Items add to the game, they aren't as unfair as in other games and both players can benefit from them as they are area of effect(bomb excluded). And if you get hit by a bomb you're doing something wrong anyway.
I feel like items are there to punish players that hide in cover to drag the game along.
The A.I. will be your training, it's said that it can be pretty tough on the higher levels.
This is genius, haha
Training isn't necessarily for fighting opponents (that's what ranked or whatever is for), but more for testing things like what I've been doing with my friends all last weekend.
It'll be a pain if there isn't a training mode where I can customize stuff :/
(like, a decently made training mode allows you to recreate various situations in a match when you may not have a second person on hand to help out)
Like, you can maybe kinda set all this up on your own with two controllers, but it's a hassle lol
I'm still personally somewhat fond of "Reach out and punch someone," but I understand that it's a very dated reference.
I was thinking back this morning to some of what DrDogg was talking about with stage hazards and certain things seeming unfair and I started to wonder if this might be the case, since currently none of the stages are known to contain anything that damages players. Extremely disappointing if this is the case. It's unlikely that actual tournaments will use the items, so this kind of throws off the notion of using ranked fights as a way of gauging that. Hell even For Glory Smash Bros fights don't use items to my knowledge.
I was thinking back this morning to some of what DrDogg was talking about with stage hazards and certain things seeming unfair and I started to wonder if this might be the case, since currently none of the stages are known to contain anything that damages players. Extremely disappointing if this is the case. It's unlikely that actual tournaments will use the items, so this kind of throws off the notion of using ranked fights as a way of gauging that. Hell even For Glory Smash Bros fights don't use items to my knowledge.
Dandy Crocodile
Member
I'd been planning on using LEGS as the subtitle since the game was revealed but this might win me over.
Me too... I'm going to pass out...
Nice.
titiklabingapat
Member
I wonder if we will ever get 'sticky arms' in the future. Sort of like a more souped up version of a grab. Instead of two arms it's just one. Or would that be too OP?
Linkstrikesback
Member
AquaWateria
Member
Handheld mode is gonna be a blast with this game.
Magnet_Man
Member
It feels like it's been decades since I heard someone use this argument and mean it. Shorthand, the Smash community already has discussions and tournament videos spanning years showing why this is an absurd concept. Look up any of those for a big, juicy overview why this is a terrible mindset. And no, not just Melee players but Smash 4 and even Brawl players --Brawl players agree that random spawning items are bad.
Next, this isn't just bombs (whose main impacts are forcing you to move where you don't want to go or blocking your punches giving your opponent a break from pressure / greater chance for free punish like a grab after you wasted a punch on the bomb) but it's also health recovery and free super meter. A random player can recover approximately 150-200 health (3 to 4 blips in the field) FOR FREE because the item spawned near them. A random player can gain approximately 30%-50% super meter FOR FREE because the item spawned near them. They stand to gain EVEN MORE if they actually have any level of skill to keep the other player out of the item field. That is an insane level of random advantage to put in an environment that has any inkling of being competitive, as Nintendo has been advertising the game as since it was revealed last January.
Let's bring back tripping to Smash 4 Switch and add 1/10th chance of gun jamming to Splatoon 2! After all a good player would be able to win no matter how many times they trip or their gun didn't fire! They had to be playing terribly if one trip was all it took to lose the game.
Hey, if you were a good player, you shouldn't need to worry about them!
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
added_time
Member
I am at a sushi restaurant right now. Across the street there is an EB Games. They have a huge ARMS promo poster in the window. These two (approximately) ten year old kids just ran over to the poster and started pointing at it and yelling in excitement about it.
It's confirmed. I am officially ten years old again.
It's confirmed. I am officially ten years old again.
That's fine, don't mind it honestly.
That's not what this implies at all. Don't set yourself up for disappointment.
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
What do you suppose it implies then? The only other implication I can see would be a storyline that's under wraps...
I don't fully agree with those items being in ranked but it does allow for some strategical thinking. I believe each of those items only drops once per battle (right?) so you could anticipate them and play around it.
On the other hand there's also some random factor to it because you never know where they might spawn and it could totally turn around a match.
It's normal to put certain aspects of a game under NDA because they might not want them to reveal everything before launch or until closer to launch. In the marketing for this game (basically the last Direct) they set up those bosses as something mysterious. If journalists would just show everything from that mode even before the game launches it would kind of ruin the surprise.
AquaWateria
Member
Yeah I'm in the same position.
At least there won't be items in Tournaments lol. They could update it if there is enough people that oppose it i guess although I don't care.
This made me flinch. Looks so 3D!
I want this soundtrack something fierce, it's so good.
Especially DNA Lab.
Items in ranked is a great idea. I've never understood why people are so scared of having to adapt mid-game to their circumstances. Yeah, RNG sucks, but adaptability is a critical skill and i'd be hard pressed to call someone a 'champion' if only under vanilla circumstances like Fox/Fox/Final Destination. The real world doesn't work that way. Try running a multi-million dollar project in an environment that assumes everything is static and won't change. Competitive games should be no different imo.
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
I understand what you mean; Nintendo probably just wants Grand Prix to be something that goes unrevealed until launch day. Maybe the Champ will be unlockable, maybe he won't; I just enjoy speculating! Either way, I won't be disappointed!
Had no problems with items during the testpunch, wasn't hit by a single bomb and took advantage of most of the item spawns, they were always in a spot were both players could reach them(some of my opponents just didn't care to get them) and if someone keeps you away from them, then that's that and just another tactical nuance of the game. You can keep them away too you know.
From what I've played the items are far less problematic than they are in Smash, as they aren't something you just get and then be the only one to benefit from. In Arms they are area of effect buffs and if you get busted out of the circle you don't get the benefits. I rarely saw anyone gain more than about 50-100 health from it, while taking punches or a grab for reaching that area first(easily reducing the heal to 0).
Sure if you are the kind of opponent that stands idly while the enemy "consumes" the item for the full duration, then items might be problematic. That's like complaining about not getting a "?" Box in Mario Kart, because your opponent drove a bit faster than you, it happens.
As for bombs: You can also hit them back you know...
Yes, items may be the reason you lose or win in some instances but for the most part, if both players are of equal skill, neither one will let the other benefit of from them for an extended period or even use the need of the opponent to reach them as an advantage while ignoring them completely.
Sure if you are the kind of opponent that stands idly while the enemy "consumes" the item for the full duration, then items might be problematic. That's like complaining about not getting a "?" Box in Mario Kart, because your opponent drove a bit faster than you, it happens.
As for bombs: You can also hit them back you know...
Yes, items may be the reason you lose or win in some instances but for the most part, if both players are of equal skill, neither one will let the other benefit of from them for an extended period or even use the need of the opponent to reach them as an advantage while ignoring them completely.
Smash bans items, because they appear random, without warning and are inconsistent. The Smash Community actually gave items a chance at the beginning, so items are not just banned because of their nature. They can work in ARMs on a competitive level, if they follow fair and predictable rules.
In my opinion there are some good rules and system, which support the use of items:
Buff items almost always appear between players. They force both players to act and generate conflict. A good way to break up a stalemate.
Bomb item don't drop randomly, they will fly around and move more between players. You can move away from them, use them as shield or activate and shoot them into the direction of your opponent. Best feature of them is, that they get out of the way, if a player activates​ a Super Move.
In my opinion the items are less designed to give a player a advantage. Arms uses them to heat up the battle and force the players to act. But players start in a very neutral position of them and there is always only one of them on the field. So fill a different rule in this game as in Smash.
My point exactly, they actually punish players that are playing very defensive and guard and hide in some corner to wait for a perfect opportunity to strike or even drag the game along to win by having a little bit more health than the opponent. I've actually beaten a few players that used that tactic thanks to the items luring them out ^^
I have always been curious about the late introduction of items in the game. It doesn't seem like something that's been in the plans all along with how slipshod it seems (just four generic items to drop into the arena) and how they've never used it in their tournaments. I wonder if at some point they found that the game becomes far too predictable so they need to introduce some random elements to spice things up. I guess we'll find out sooner or later.
Refreshment.01
Member
Maybe this is a concesion to motion control players as just taping a button is more easy to do than the guard gesture and also, if they put guard to a trigger/action button pad players will be easily holding down guard all the time which is a lot more difficult to do with motion. One will have to try hard to find a more convulted way to implement guard for pad players than what Nintendo did here.
But yes, some puzzling desicions: Why no ZL to switch targets? Or map punches to triggers/shoulders in all traditional pad configurations?
Well this hybrid method discussion came after the post you are replying to, however going by your description you are not holding the Joycon in a thumbs up position, Nintendo could just enforce the thumbs up way to play. And besides is too early to know how practical this control method is.
A question: Are the Joycon detecting that they are close to each other or are they using the gyros to detect the posture of the controls and assume they are in the grip? For example, if you lay the 2 Joycon flat but far away from each other does the game assumes they are in the grip?
If the joycon detect relative proximity to each other then this would be something new, which im doubting right now although i have an idea how they could achieve this.
...But punches ARE mapped to ZR and ZL in all but single-joycon configuration (...actually now that I think about it they might work in single-joycon too). It's not listed on the button info cards, but it exists. I'd still personally rather have jump and dash on them but eh.
I think V-ball is just as deep. Just off the top of my head for V-Ball strats:
- Stalling
- Spiking
- Interrupting a spike
- Timing the final hit so the bomb falls on the opponent's side of the net
- Positioning
If you punch into throw the throw will miss unless you're close. Throwing takes longer to execute than a punch with most Arms. If you get a stun you can go for the throw, but even then I prefer a combo. Depends on the situation though. Positioning is also a factor in what I do after a stun.
Also, I basically always have a charged punch. The only time I don't is when I want to hit confirm into a super because it's easier to do on a non-charged punch. Armor is meaningless to me.
I think Spring Man is decent. His movement isn't great, but you can continually dash and charge to get a semi-permanent deflect. It's a bit risky to rely on it, but I've had it work well in many situations.
Always having charged punches can make it harder to hit confirm into a super, but you can also bait an opponent into attacking since you don't have to continually charge. It's also great when you get the 75% health handicap in Party Mode.
Looking through some of these answers, it doesn't seem as though he put much time into the game. I disagree with a lot of what he says that isn't a straight fact-based answer.
I don't mind items at all in this game. In fact, you can do some setups with them on some of the smaller stages.
That said, I'll give you one guess as to how the AI plays on higher difficulty settings.
This is not what you should be concerned about when it comes to ranked mode.
It feels like it's been decades since I heard someone use this argument and mean it. Shorthand, the Smash community already has discussions and tournament videos spanning years showing why this is an absurd concept. Look up any of those for a big, juicy overview why this is a terrible mindset. And no, not just Melee players but Smash 4 and even Brawl players --Brawl players agree that random spawning items are bad.
*snip*
Most of what you're complaining about doesn't factor into Arms. The items in Arms are no where near as impactful as they are in Smash. I have yet to run into any instance in which I feel items spawning caused me to lose a match or put me at a disadvantage. The health one can be annoying, but so far it hasn't had a significant impact.
There are certainly concerns with this game from a competitive standpoint, but items are not one of them.
TheGoreMagala
Member
I'm not against items either, though I'm curious, are you at liberty to discuss what these other more greater concerns to competitive are?
thesaucetastic
Unconfirmed Member
I know I'm interrupting technical discussion, but I had a question. Do we know what language each ARMS character speaks? Spring Man and I think Ribbon Girl speak English, Twintelle French, and Ninjara Japanese, but what about the others? Is Min Min speaking Chinese? What language does Mechanica speak?
And are there translations of what they're saying?
And are there translations of what they're saying?