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For people who say that the PS3 was "overpriced"



http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/04/6544-2/

The PS3 was literally the cheapest BD player at time.

Yea, the PS3 was really expensive but lots of people forget how expensive bluray was. The PS3 was definitely a trojan horse for bluray but bluray gaming is a good thing IMO. Arrogant Sony was dumb and cost themselves billions. Arrogant MS is like John Lithgow from Santa Claus the movie.

 

[Dehnus]

If there's anything to be said about Sony it's that there is zero synergy between their divisions. This has improved greatly since Kaz has taken Stringers place. But they couldn't even secure deals with their own music publishing division for SingStar, nor did it help them get movies from game properties off the ground any easier. It was apparently like pulling teeth to get Sony Ericsson to even work with the playstation brand. You can't blame the company as a whole for supporting that anti copy DRM on CD's when it was an organized effort between other music labels and the RIAA. Completely different scenario, you're baseless in your boisterous claim.

Yet Microsoft never got this luxury reasoning when people talk about Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, Skype, DRMBox and Office. Suddenly then it is one big company which someone should hate.

Give it a break please, SONY was on the same DRM wagon back in those days even with their SCEE division. There are quite a few SCEE published games loaded to the BRIM with DRM for the PC during those days. But I know I know, Sony is the altruistic and bountiful hero right now. And nothing they do is malicious in any form or shape, even in their past. But we both know that is a false assumption.

Also the OP was talking about SONY as a whole and not SCEE/SCEA/SCEJ as divisions. So your argument of looking at something per division is a distraction from my points rather then a rebuttal.

Lastly: Kaz? Since when are we on first name basis with CEO's? Unless you hold a big position in Sony Computer Entertainment, I doubt you would address him on first-name basis. Seems like an adoration almost :"Look a hero of the people, we can now address him as if we drink beer with him!"

Sorry but I'm glad Nintendo is keeping out this whole ridiculous absurdity.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Would it be better if the Xbox One was DD only?

I'm sorry..I fail to see the point you are trying to make here. Making an 'additional' iteration of an existing handheld device with a different approach (think a digital only 360, but without stopping the production of the regular 360) is a sign of arrogance? Please...I would love to hear your argument

I guess because when they fixed all the things people said they didn't like about the PSP that just made them angry.

lol yeah I guess

 

[Ithil]

Arrogant Microsoft from arrogant Sony is going from everyday villainy to cartoonish supervillainy.

 

[Robot Pants]

People saying "Debatable"... please, debate.

Sony thought the could charge and do what they felt like, and we would just lap it up.
MS has the exact same mentality. Except the gaming scene has changed a bit. They are/were both pretty evil.

 

[SMT]

sure. but it was arrogance to assume that consumers wanted the incredibly complex and expensive cell processor instead of cheaper architectures that produce similar results. they basically thought that anything kutaragi made would turn to gold and let him get out of control.

What are you talking about? It was the Blu-ray player that drove up the cost.

Sony thought the could charge and do what they felt like, and we would just lap it up.
MS has the exact same mentality. Except the gaming scene has changed a bit. They are/were both pretty evil.

When did Sony enforce region-lock, and shackle your console to the fiber connection, you may, or may not have?
Did Sony ever go to devs behind your back, and beg them for DRM as a means to get back at you for their lackluster studios shutting down because they lacked any good games?
Did Sony ever blame you for their woes? Did Sony ever spy on you? Did Sony ever sell you underpowered tech? Did Sony ever not cradle your balls? I think not.

 

[twobear]

Arrogant Sony was more clueless than malicious.

Do people really think this? The PS3 was designed as a trojan horse to get BluRay and Cell onto the market. It was not designed for gamers.

They were not in the same league of shitty that MS are in now, but they absolutely were not merely clueless.

[edit]Cell was not Visionary Ken's failed experiment. They didn't spend $400 million on a CPU just for a game console.

 

[Bgamer90]

You had the choice between a PSP-3000 and a PSP Go.

Not arrogant.

People have the choice between Xbox 360 and Xbox One

 

[freddy]

Sony music not SCE. Try harder next time.

Sony is Sony. I edited another in my post btw, so you can wail on that as well.

 

[itsgreen]

Nah you got to provide a bit of context...

MS has chosen to dump the disc license system in favor of a code license system. A code activated by a server. Digital Download only if you want. You buy a download game in the store it's just that the disc enables you not to download.

The problem is that that doesn't provide you any advantages that would offset the disadvantages, when you compare it to Sony's proven classic approach.

The arrogance is much a case of: 'Look how fucking awesome this is', 'You don't mind', 'We'll create an arbitrary set of rules because we can', 'If you don't want to play by our rules, get a 360'

A lot of these checks stem from the choice for Digital Download; when you've got digital download sharing it isn't too weird they have checks to check copies...

 

[Yagharek]

How about we all agree they were/are both pretty awful.

Same. Both arrogant Sony and Microsoft are/were bad for gaming. As with any company in an arrogant phase.

The good companies learn a lesson. Eventually.

 

[Dremark]

Microsoft has every reason to be cocky. At a time when Sony almost had an monopoly on the console market (arguably they did?), they came in with the original Xbox. They've gone from being the underdog to being head to head with the biggest platform out there over a single generation.

Yet they both got crushed by Nintendo. Not really something to be all that proud of.

 

[B.O.O.M]

People have the choice between Xbox 360 and Xbox One

You can't think of any reason why what you just said made no sense and how it's not even remotely comparable?

Or is this an attempt at humor?

 

[Bgamer90]

I'm sorry..I fail to see the point you are trying to make here. Making an 'additional' iteration of an existing handheld device with a different approach (think a digital only 360, but without stopping the production of the regular 360) is a sign of arrogance? Please...I would love to hear your argument

Haha, I was just asking if it would be better since at least the Xbox One still lets users without good enough internet connections play games from discs.

No need to be feisty.

E3 + new consoles. Dangerous combination for gaming forums.

You can't think of any reason why what you just said made no sense and how it's not even remotely comparable?

Or is this an attempt at humor?

CHILL OUT. Goodness.

 

[Septimus Prime]

How soon people forget the DRM Sony Pushed on PC. The Root-kits on their AudioCD's, their push to move away from the CD standard to a closed one that could contain DRM programs, their root-kits on PC disks all together or when they found out that Asian movies where starting to do better then American ones, to quickly kick Europe out of the same DVD region and put Asia and the USA into the same one.

Please Sony Fanboys, give it a rest. You are starting to come of as bullies, and if you keep this up you will DRIVE people INTO the DRMBox. People tend to do the opposite of what you push them to do.

If you have love for your console company, I suggest you give it a rest and start being constructive.

This is really the dumbest argument because the rootkit thing was being pushed by an entirely different branch of Sony that had nothing to do with PlayStation. It's akin to saying that MS doesn't care about what consumers want because Office 2007 forced the ribbon interface upon everyone. Crappy move, but it has nothing to do with anything.

 

[PdotMichael]

People have the choice between Xbox 360 and Xbox One

bad comparison.

The PSP-3000 and PSP-Go were the same handheld. You was never forced to go DD with the PSP, you had just the option to pick a smaller handheld with better battery lifetime.

 

[Phinal Phantasy]

Give it a break please, SONY was on the same DRM wagon back in those days even with their SCEE division. There are quite a few SCEE published games loaded to the BRIM with DRM for the PC during those days. But I know I know, Sony is the altruistic and bountiful hero right now. And nothing they do is malicious in any form or shape, even in their past. But we both know that is a false assumption.


Sorry but I'm glad Nintendo is keeping out this whole ridiculous absurdity.

There were bigtime rumors the PS3 would go the DRM route and kill used games. It's coming to the market eventually, Sony will slip it in like they did paying for P2P games. It's all about the reveal and timing.

 

[Eusis]

How about we all agree they were/are both pretty awful.

It's why you want someone to compete with Sony at least. The way Microsoft's going I'm afraid they'd need to be forced out, but I'd really want to either see Nintendo rise or for someone like Valve to really step up. Though I'm guessing the Steambox is pretty much just going to be what some of us thought the Xbox was going to be initially (PC in a console-like box to hook to your TV, dedicated to games.)

There were bigtime rumors the PS3 would go the DRM route and kill used games. It's coming to the market eventually, Sony will slip it in like they did paying for P2P games. It's all about the reveal and timing.

It IS possible they learn lessons from this and try an approach that's more agreeable. I'm not a fan of going the Steam route on consoles even with DD games, but if we go as I was imagining at first (bind to account, operate essentially the same otherwise as today) then I can grudgingly accept it, ESPECIALLY if they actually are good about BC with PS5 onwards or whatever they do.

 

[dragonelite]

Dat 3rd console curse....

 

[qko]

Pretty much.

Not sure why people are even comparing them though. Seems fruitless. Two wrongs are both wrong.

Since when is not being as bad as the other guy cause for celebration amirite? That whole "No Drm" speech was just a PR stunt right?

 

[B.O.O.M]

Haha, I was just asking if it would be better since at least the Xbox One still lets users without good enough internet connections play games from discs.

No need to be feisty.

E3 + new consoles. Dangerous combination for gaming forums.




CHILL OUT. Goodness.

Not being feisty. Trying to make sense of what you were saying. What does that even have to do with what I was saying? So random

I'm perfectly relaxed. You need to stop making random useless comments

ps: Big difference between having a choice. So using your own logic it should be a scenario like XBone for those with internet + a XBone for those who don't. With the PSPGo, that wasn't the only option. And no Xbone and 360 situation aren't comparable as it should be obvious to you. PSP and PSP Go are from the same Gen. No different that a 3DS and a 3DS XL. XBone and 360 isn't

 

[bhytre]

Don 'The Don' Mattrick's smirk makes everything forgivable.

 

[SMT]

Don 'The Don' Mattrick's smirk makes everything forgivable.

No poker face that one, you can easily tell when he's being slithery.

 

[UFRA]

You must be seriously trolling to think the Kinect 2 is "inferior tech"
Sony was also vague about DRM
Everyone does fake demos for the conferences
Major Nelson probably typed that shit a thousand times

I think the "inferior tech" comment is directed at the Xbox One's hardware in general being inferior to PS4's.

Therefore, you're paying $100 more in total for inferior tech.

See?

 

[keit4]

Fanboy thread? Fanboy thread.

 

[bhytre]

No poker face that one, you can easily tell when he's being slithery.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Arrogant Sony was more clueless than malicious. Arrogant MS knows exactly what they're doing and they don't care.

I think this summarises it very well. Sony's main failing was underestimating the competition, so MS stole most of their thunder this gen. Microsoft are well aware if what they're doing and have calculated that folk without a broadband connection are not worthy of being part of the Xbox community.

 

[DGRE]

Rumble is a last-gen feature.

 

[Phinal Phantasy]

I think the "inferior tech" comment is directed at the Xbox One's hardware in general being inferior to PS4's.

Therefore, you're paying $100 more in total for inferior tech.

See?

Do we even know if this is true? PS3 was the superior machine but the smartly designed X360 outperformed 99% of the time in multiplats.

 

[SMT]

Snnaaaaaaaaaaakkke! Just look at the scales.

Fanboy threaf? Fanboy thread.

I liked this version better.

 

[Bgamer90]

Fanboy thread? Fanboy thread.

Yep.

 

[MrBambinoDent]

Arrogant Sony was more clueless than malicious. Arrogant MS knows exactly what they're doing and they don't care.

Exactly, MS is screwing people as hard as they can and they don't give a damn about consumers! Sony built an expensive machine and had to put a high price tag and they even lost money with every console for years! Big difference if you ask me!

 

[Terrordactyl]

Yet Microsoft never got this luxury reasoning when people talk about Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, Skype, DRMBox and Office. Suddenly then it is one big company which someone should hate.

Give it a break please, SONY was on the same DRM wagon back in those days even with their SCEE division. There are quite a few SCEE published games loaded to the BRIM with DRM for the PC during those days. But I know I know, Sony is the altruistic and bountiful hero right now. And nothing they do is malicious in any form or shape, even in their past. But we both know that is a false assumption.

Also the OP was talking about SONY as a whole and not SCEE/SCEA/SCEJ as divisions. So your argument of looking at something per division is a distraction from my points rather then a rebuttal.

Lastly: Kaz? Since when are we on first name basis with CEO's? Unless you hold a big position in Sony Computer Entertainment, I doubt you would address him on first-name basis. Seems like an adoration almost :"Look a hero of the people, we can now address him as if we drink beer with him!"

Sorry but I'm glad Nintendo is keeping out this whole ridiculous absurdity.

Sony corp is merely the umbrella that connects multiple owned subsidiary's, they are different companies. Hell SOE was not even a part of SCE until around 2008. They operate individually from each other, Sony is a conglomerate, Microsoft is not, end of story.

See point above^ SOE was not part of SCE until 2008

I don't know where you get the impression OP was referring to Sony's banking corporation, their digital camera company, or their transistor manufacturing business.. but uhh OK.

Kaz...9/10 people here know who Kaz is when he is referred to by his first name. No admiration, I guess my inner entrepreneur is impressed by what he has done with the company in recent years to turn things around for Sony. Outside of that no admiration.

What does Nintendo have to do with anything?

 

[Baby Milo]

what's kutaragi up to nowadays?

 

[thesolidshark]

$599 + "Get a second job" talk make for a deadly combo.

- $100 more for inferior tech
- Get a 360
- why would you want to live there
- rest of adam orth saga
- intentionally hiding info about DRM or being vague about it
- Restrictions on 'lending' games
- Restrictions on selling games
- always on kinect
- IP based region locking
- Fake demos of the UI and functionalists
- Major Nelson using the 'faq' to copy paste answers in a 'live' Q@A chat session
- being backwards

In fighting game terms, the list above qualifies as an infinite (combo), and the health bar was people's patience and tolerance. Online and DRM was enough for me, but more bad news kept coming in, and still is apparently.

My opinion is I agree with OP. In terms of words, "second job" vs. "buy our old shit" has me leaning toward the latter being worse. Then there was "who'd want to live there?" plus some other stuff I'm forgetting on MS side. In practice, Sony's arrogance could be combatted with patience. Wait for the system to drop in price, and for games worth playing. I waited until MGS4 came out and still paid $600, but I could've waited. Odds are not in favor of MS backing down with a system they've entrenched themselves into (online & DRM). We'd have a better chance at demanding a lower subscription price for Live over dropping the big stuff altogether. Time will tell, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Stahsky]

Fanboy thread? Fanboy thread.

Pretty much. Most companies are pricks. Some just cover it up better than others. Stop trying to make your favorite this or that look like saints.

 

[lefantome]

They were both very arrogant but ms has a crapy console in their hands.

 

[Nibel]

Fanboy thread? Fanboy thread.

Sums it up

 

[Pistolero]

Telling people to get a second job if they wanted a PS3.

That's about as arrogant as it gets. Sorry.

Not really. Those are words, mere PR words. MS is about to change the whole industry rules with its policies. Those are acts.

 

[MercuryLS]

Microsoft is turning into the company we were all afraid they'd be after they announced the original Xbox.

I wanted to make a thread about this very subject. Xbox One finally shows MS's true colors.

 

[hamchan]

Reading the first two pages, it seems a lot of people missed the point. The debate isn't about which company was more arrogant, because they were both pretty damn arrogant, and how the fuck do you even measure that really.

It's about which company is worse when they're in their time of arrogance.

Arrogant Sony is just them pricing their console to outrageous levels, so what?.

Arrogant MS is actively trying to push DRM and strip away consumer rights, without even explaining properly whether there are any benefits at all.

I'd say Arrogant Nintendo could be even worse than Sony, with their third-party relations back in the NES days, limiting the number of games third-parties could release in a year.

 

[B.O.O.M]

In fighting game terms, the list above qualifies as an infinite (combo), and the health bar was people's patience and tolerance. Online and DRM was enough for me, but more bad news kept coming in, and still is apparently.

My opinion is I agree with OP. In terms of words, "second job" vs. "buy our old shit" has me leaning toward the latter being worse. Then there was "who'd want to live there?" plus some other stuff I'm forgetting on MS side. In practice, Sony's arrogance could be combatted with patience. Wait for the system to drop in price, and for games worth playing. I waited until MGS4 came out and still paid $600, but I could've waited. Odds are not in favor of MS backing down with a system they've entrenched themselves into (online & DRM). We'd have a better chance at demanding a lower subscription price for Live over dropping the big stuff altogether. Time will tell, but I won't hold my breath.

@bold: beautifully put. Well done Sir


By the way I'm not saying SOny wasn't bad..they were horrid. Dumb as hell to boot. I'm glad they had their fall because as a consumer I benefited from it in the long run with them getting a piece of humble pie.

I wanted to make a thread about this very subject. Xbox One finally shows MS's true colors.

Sadly I think it's mainly due to a change of leadership. Don't think the people who were mainly responsible for the 360's glorious start would have let the current outcome come to pass.

 

[SMT]

I wanted to make a thread about this very subject. Xbox One finally shows MS's true colors.

They want a monopoly on the whole gaming industry, just like they have with the PC business.
Then they will set the prices.

Hamchan is right, Nintendo is more arrogant than Sony, they don't even listen to fans about region-Free, game localization, reprints, rehash the same games, tells members of the press to give them a good review!
They tell you there won't be a 3DS revision, a month later, a 3DS revision is announced, they make Nintendo games only.
Arrogance?

 

[Bgamer90]

Not being feisty. Trying to make sense of what you were saying. What does that even have to do with what I was saying? So random

You said the Xbox One is a more "arrogant" product did you not? I just wanted to see more of your opinion since digital downloading is more popular now than it was back when the PSP Go was released plus, in some ways I guess someone could say that MS is tricking people by making the Xbox One still have disc games since so will assume that they can do with games what they were able to do this gen.

You need to stop making random useless comments

Haha, Yeah -- there's no snark in that.

ps: Big difference between having a choice. So using your own logic it should be a scenario like XBone for those with internet + a XBone for those who don't. With the PSPGo, that wasn't the only option. And no Xbone and 360 situation aren't comparable as it should be obvious to you. PSP and PSP Go are from the same Gen. No different that a 3DS and a 3DS XL. XBone and 360 isn't

I wasn't trying to compare things that way. My previous post about Xbox One vs. 360 was a joke [hence the ].

 

[Applecot]

I don't believe the 2nd job comment was arrogant.
Seriously if you cannot afford something and want it that bad, it really is an option.

MS's 'get a 360' comment is however pushing it.

Edit - Surprised Nintendo hasn't gotten a mention. We all too young for that? XD

 

[Jack_AG]

Debatable.

Anti-consumer vs high price.

Good lord, junior.

 

[Bgamer90]

Exactly, MS is screwing people as hard as they can and they don't give a damn about consumers!

I would disagree with this if the family plan ends up being true. Based on what has been stated, they are actually giving people options to share games that aren't currently available now with discs. Good options.

It's just that users would need to be okay with digital downloading.

 

[JaseC]

Back in 2006, the 599 thing hurt a lot, having to get a 2nd job to pay for a PS3, etc. Thos stung, don't get me wrong. Sony won no favors during that time, but got damn! it was never as bad as MS is right now. At least Sony gave you some incentives for the exorbitant price:region free gaming, a sleek new blu-ray player, free online, and a beast of a machine.

But what does MS have to offer:
+Draconian DRM
+Online Checks
+Expired MS Points
+Non-region free gaming (can't even play the games if you ping from a country not supported).
+An inferior system
+A higher pricepoint


How does it get worse from here, can it? it's like they thought of everything that the consumer had a right to and then said, "NOPE!".

Has this been confirmed? I recall some people saying in the thread, "You can just sign up to XBL in your nearest supported region", but obviously if there are IP checks that little trick won't work.

 

[Strike]

Fanboy thread? Fanboy thread.

Strap in. It's a new gen. This is only the beginning.

 

[Terrordactyl]

Has this been confirmed? I recall some people saying in the thread, "You can just sign up to XBL in your nearest supported region."

It works now on 360 but you can't make any purchases or activations without using a VPN if the content is not specific to your region. It's the same as it is now, it works in non supported regions sorta.