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[Count Dookkake]

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[test_account]

Using Wii to gather people's attention is probly a great way to do it, but i also wonder (as other people have pointed out already) why they chose a Wii to show of their technoligy. Depends on how expencive the TVs that were used are of course. I would be suprised if they used i.e a $2000 TV and used a Wii to show off the image quality (unless if Wii looks amazingly better on a $2000 TV compared to a i.e $800 TV. Does Wii look better on an advanced HD TV compared to a less advanced HD TV by the way?).

 

[Threi]

Using Wii to gather people's attention is probly a great way to do it, but i also wonder (as other people have pointed out already) why they chose a Wii to show of their technoligy. Depends on how expencive the TVs that were used are of course. I would be suprised if they used i.e a $2000 TV and used a Wii to show off the image quality (unless if Wii looks amazingly better on a $2000 TV compared to a i.e $800 TV. Does Wii look better on an advanced HD TV compared to a less advanced HD TV by the way?).

Well a more expensive TV will probably have a better scaler so...yes.

 

[Onemic]

Now they have their long-time fans. There's this fad, and there's Pokemon's fad, but ultimately the goal should be to keep them playing years later, after the 'it's a fad' people have left.

The pokemon fad was really just a fad. When people talked of the pokemon fad it was about the things outside of the game, mainly the pokemon card and to a slightly lesser extent the pokemon TV show, both of which died their horrible deaths after 2 years or so in the market.(Sadly I was one of those rabid pokemon card collectors and TV watchers)

 

[test_account]

Well a more expensive TV will probably have a better scaler so...yes.

Ye, thats true, didnt think about that But its an pretty expencive "upgrade" to buy an expencive TV primarily to upscale Wii tho (if anyone is thinking about doing that of course). Speaking of scaling, this TV looks great when it comes to scaling:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/159896.html

 

[liuelson]

So the success of the wii is the integral of a fad? Or the second integral? I get so confused...

The vendor-bait-and-switch fad could be using any product that was successful, fun, easy to set-up and involved TVs. It just so happens that at this moment, Wii is the product that best suits vendors' needs.

Sorry - making an obscure math joke. The "vendor-bait-and-switch fad" is derived from the popularity of the bait (Wii). Thus, the fad is the derivative of the Wii's success, making the Wii's success the integral of the fad. Or something.

 

[Count Dookkake]

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[P90]

The pokemon fad was really just a fad. When people talked of the pokemon fad it was about the things outside of the game, mainly the pokemon card and to a slightly lesser extent the pokemon TV show, both of which died their horrible deaths after 2 years or so in the market.(Sadly I was one of those rabid pokemon card collectors and TV watchers)

?

The Pokemon show is still going. The cards are all over at Target, Meijer's, practically everywhere.

 

[Onemic]

?

The Pokemon show is still going. The cards are all over at Target, Meijer's, practically everywhere.

Compare both of those now to back in 1998. Popularity of those two have dropped so considerably it's not even funny. Before, if you went up to any kid they would probably have pokemon cards in their hand, now you would probably be extremely lucky to find someone with them. Same goes for the TV show.

 

[Dave Long]

Compare both of those now to back in 1998. Popularity of those two have dropped so considerably it's not even funny. Before, if you went up to any kid they would probably have pokemon cards in their hand, now you would probably be extremely lucky to find someone with them. Same goes for the TV show.

You obviously don't have kids, or you do drugs. One of those two.

 

[Christine]

Compare both of those now to back in 1998. Popularity of those two have dropped so considerably it's not even funny. Before, if you went up to any kid they would probably have pokemon cards in their hand, now you would probably be extremely lucky to find someone with them. Same goes for the TV show.

I don't know about the show, but any difference in the profile of the card game is completely explained by the lowered profile of tabletop hobby gaming in general. In other words, it wasn't Pokemon that was the fad - it was collectible card games.

As far as tabletop hobby gaming goes, Pokemon is still a power. There's a card game and a collectible figurine game - the brand is supporting two products in the sector.

 

[DDayton]

It's like expecting Spielberg or Scorcese to quit making movies because TV is more popular and profitable.

I'm suddenly reminded of the early years of televison, and how all the movie companies were actively boycotting it for a variety of reasons... except for Disney. Walt went on to massively profit from television without taking a hit on the other divisions of his company, while the other companies struggled to avoid losing movie revenue.

Not exactly the same, mind you, but it somewhat reminds me of it.

 

[Onemic]

You obviously don't have kids, or you do drugs. One of those two.

I was one of those crazy kids that used to play pokemon cards everyday in way back in 98. I think I would know. Pokemon cards are practically dead.

 

[Windu]

Heh great idea. At these conventions you have to do something to actually get people into the booths to look at all the crazy cool gadgets. Wii is a great way to get people to notice. Just image walking by a booth and you see people moving around with huge grins on their faces while yelling and cheering. People see that and wonder..WTF and want to go check it out.

 

[Onemic]

I don't know about the show, but any difference in the profile of the card game is completely explained by the lowered profile of tabletop hobby gaming in general. In other words, it wasn't Pokemon that was the fad - it was collectible card games.

As far as tabletop hobby gaming goes, Pokemon is still a power. There's a card game and a collectible figurine game - the brand is supporting two products in the sector.

Yeah, maybe you're right about the whole tabletop thing dying as a whole. Since after yu-gi-oh cards the whole collectible cards thing disappeared. First it was pokemon, and then after that died down digimon cards took its place for a good year, and then yu-gi-oh cards took digimons place for about 1 and a half years or so before being taken over by bayblades. I grew out of the whole collectible cards and toys after the whole bayblade fad, but I believe some collectible cards(or toys can't remember which) called beedamon(Probably the wrong spelling) took them over after that.

 

[jman2050]

The pokemon fad was really just a fad. When people talked of the pokemon fad it was about the things outside of the game, mainly the pokemon card and to a slightly lesser extent the pokemon TV show, both of which died their horrible deaths after 2 years or so in the market.(Sadly I was one of those rabid pokemon card collectors and TV watchers)

This is completely wrong. Pokemon is still one of if not the top selling TCG on the market (yes, this includes Yugioh, which I think fits the 'fad' profile far more than Pokemon ever did) and the TV show, even with its ratings down from its peak, is still one of the primary Saturday morning draws. And this is just America. If you're talking Japan, then it's arguable that its popularity ever waned.

Of course, the fact that the newest games still sell 10 million copies easy is probably the biggest indicator of Pokemon's continued success

 

[Onemic]

This is completely wrong. Pokemon is still one of if not the top selling TCG on the market (yes, this includes Yugioh, which I think fits the 'fad' profile far more than Pokemon ever did) and the TV show, even with its ratings down from its peak, is still one of the primary Saturday morning draws. And this is just America. If you're talking Japan, then it's arguable that its popularity ever waned.

Of course, the fact that the newest games still sell 10 million copies easy is probably the biggest indicator of Pokemon's continued success

As I said before in my other posts, if you ever get sales data on pokemon cards sales now compared to how it was back in 98-99 the difference is absolutely mind-blowing.

I pretty sure pokemon cards sales are still the top followed by yu-gi-oh, but as a whole the things just aren't selling as much as they used. i think the beedamon fad is still going pretty strong and so far that's the top thing on kids minds now a days.

 

[MisterHero]

The pokemon fad was really just a fad. When people talked of the pokemon fad it was about the things outside of the game, mainly the pokemon card and to a slightly lesser extent the pokemon TV show, both of which died their horrible deaths after 2 years or so in the market.(Sadly I was one of those rabid pokemon card collectors and TV watchers)

Compare both of those now to back in 1998. Popularity of those two have dropped so considerably it's not even funny. Before, if you went up to any kid they would probably have pokemon cards in their hand, now you would probably be extremely lucky to find someone with them. Same goes for the TV show.

I meant the game series. Mario/Link had their cartoons, cereal etc. back in the late-80s/early 90s, but because they no longer have them they aren't popular anymore?

The games (the source material) still sells, the series fans are established now and the series is still popular. Arguably more now because of Online.

 

[Dave Long]

Dude, you are so wrong. Pokémon is everywhere in kids marketing. Have you been to fucking Target lately? Hell, every retailer that has trading cards is going through piles of the Diamond and Pearl Tins. I HAVE CHILDREN, I KNOW!

This doesn't even include all the toys. They have a whole new line of action figures and other stuff. It's still huge. You just aren't even in the ballpark.

 

[Deku]

I think the problem here isn't any misunderstanding of the meaning FAD but the fact it was used to loosely, probably with an eye out to troll, and now said claimants need to defend the untenable position to the death, as is the law of the internets.

 

[jman2050]

As I said before in my other posts, if you ever get sales data on pokemon cards sales now compared to how it was back in 98-99 the difference is absolutely mind-blowing.

I pretty sure pokemon cards sales are still the top followed by yu-gi-oh, but as a whole the things just aren't selling as much as they used. i think the beedamon fad is still going pretty strong and so far that's the top thing on kids minds now a days.

Well, every successful business usually peaks during a period of time. The difference is whether the business continues sustaining itself through long periods of time or whether it drops off huge when the next big thing comes around. Pokemon definitely falls toward the former, much like Disney and the PS2.

 

[Christine]

Yeah, maybe you're right about the whole tabletop thing dying as a whole.

It's not dying, though - that's the point, it still does quite well. But the sector no longer has the elevated profile and extra media and marketing attention it did in the nineties. CCGs are no longer on the rise - they have ascended and are now the status quo. TSR is no longer overextending themselves marketing AD&D 2nd edition to a fare-thee-well - Wizbro is far more conservative about how much effort they will put into pushing their products.

 

[liuelson]

No, I got your "obscure" reference. Sorry, I thought you were legitimately confused.

I'm a JR on NeoGAF - I'm always confused.

If vendors are using Wii because of its install base, then Wii success = distance, vendor fad = measure of speed, vendor fad = 1st derivative.

If vendors are using Wii because of how quickly it is selling, then Wii success = speed, vendor fad = measure of acceleration, vendor fad = 2nd derivative.

Personally, I subscribe to the latter view - vendors using the Wii to attract people into their booths at CES is a measure of how the Wii is increasing in popularity (selling rate), not that a lot of people already have one (quantity already sold).

Edit: keep in mind, this is all for a silly joke.

 

[Pachael]

This just shows that Wii's not a fad and that people are interested in the Wii due to its waggle abilities. One waggle future forever!

As for Pokemon, it had longer staying power than Sonic, so is Sonic a fad?

 

[Onemic]

I meant the game series. Mario/Link had their cartoons, cereal etc. back in the late-80s/early 90s, but because they no longer have them they aren't popular anymore?

The games (the source material) still sells, the series fans are established now and the series is still popular. Arguably more now because of Online.

Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about the card game. The game obviously still sells like hot cakes.

 

[MisterHero]

This just shows that Wii's not a fad and that people are interested in the Wii due to its waggle abilities. One waggle future forever!

As for Pokemon, it had longer staying power than Sonic, so is Sonic a fad?

Sonic's "cool factor" was.

 

[Onemic]

Dude, you are so wrong. Pokémon is everywhere in kids marketing. Have you been to fucking Target lately? Hell, every retailer that has trading cards is going through piles of the Diamond and Pearl Tins. I HAVE CHILDREN, I KNOW!

This doesn't even include all the toys. They have a whole new line of action figures and other stuff. It's still huge. You just aren't even in the ballpark.

Like I said compare the sales of pokemon trading cards now to back then. The difference is insane. I'm not saying that some other card game has taken over pokemon cards, I'm just saying that in comparison to when it first started the card game has declined in popularity by a whole damn lot.

And just in case I confused you, I'm not talking about pokemon as a whole, I know the games still sell like crazy, just as well as it did back in the 90's. I'm specifically talking about the cards and the show.

 

[Jokeropia]

Yes ... Rockstar, Blizzard, Valve, EA, Capcom, Activision are all suffering massive losses because they are ignoring the Wii.

Err… EA, Capcom and Activision are all giving the Wii good support and are being rewarded for it as well.

 

[Christine]

Like I said compare the sales of pokemon trading cards now to back then. The difference is insane. I'm not saying that some other card game has taken over pokemon cards, I'm just saying that in comparison to when it first started the card game has pretty much died.

You keep saying 'died', 'dying' - nothing of the sort has happened. Hell, 2007 was a banner year that saw a major resurgence for the TCG property in association with the D&P games. The new movie was the biggest animated feature in Japan in 2007. There are few entertainment brands that can match Pokemon for staying power in any sector.

 

[Onemic]

You keep saying 'died', 'dying' - nothing of the sort has happened. Hell, 2007 was a banner year that saw a major resurgence for the TCG property in association with the D&P games. The new movie was the biggest animated feature in Japan in 2007.

Quoted me late

 

[Christine]

Quoted me late

Regardless, none of what you're saying really supports the notion that the Pokemon brand has a fadlike nature - you're talking about the CCGs being a fad. Proportionally, Pokemon hasn't diminished at all relative to the sector.

 

[Onemic]

EDIT: stupid double posts

 

[Onemic]

Regardless, none of what you're saying really supports the notion that the Pokemon brand has a fadlike nature - you're talking about the CCGs being a fad. Proportionally, Pokemon hasn't diminished at all relative to the sector.

Relative to the CCG sector pokemon has diminished. To say that the pokemon CCG is as popular now as it was in the 90's is laughable at best.

 

[Christine]

Relative to the CCG sector pokemon has diminished. To say that the pokemon CCG is as popular now as it was in the 90's is laughable at best.

Those two things are not the same. Pokemon is still the #1 CCG and dominates the sector. If anything its relative profile is bigger because it's the smaller players that get squeezed out the most when an industry shrinks.

 

[GameOver117]

Those two things are not the same. Pokemon is still the #1 CCG and dominates the sector. If anything its relative profile is bigger because it's the smaller players that get squeezed out the most when an industry shrinks.

Pokemon was a fad dude....get over it. noone is saying that it is not popular. You can be a fad and still continue on.

 

[Christine]

Pokemon was a fad dude....get over it. noone is saying that it is not popular. You can be a fad and still continue on.

I'll just have to disagree with this opinion as you haven't offered an argument in support of it.

 

[MWS Natural]

Because people really hate change. Especially when you invest a pile of cash into something else.

People don't want to see their hobby whored out to the masses? I can relate somewhat but Wii doesn't keep me from enjoying my HD gaming. I welcome Wii profits going towards hardcore games on other systems .

 

[Onemic]

Those two things are not the same. Pokemon is still the #1 CCG and dominates the sector. If anything its relative profile is bigger because it's the smaller players that get squeezed out the most when an industry shrinks.

I think that's where the problem is. I'm arguing about pokemon CCG popularity and sales wise, while you are arguing pokemon CCG, CCG ranking wise.

In terms of ranking then I have no argument against pokemon CCG at all.

 

[GameOver117]

I'll just have to disagree with this opinion.

You should start watching wrestling then. It goes through it's fad perioids and continues to be popular. The WWE had a nice fad run in the 80's and again in the 90's.

There are countless examples of products/movements that were hot one minute and considered a fad BUT still continue on. (Like Pokemon)

 

[Christine]

I think that's where the problem is. I'm arguing about pokemon CCG popularity and sales wise, while you are arguing pokemon CCG, CCG ranking wise.

In terms of ranking then I have no argument against pokemon CCG at all.

So what I'm saying is that your argument supports the view that CCGs were a fad - not that Pokemon is a fad. What Pokemon enjoyed was brand synergy among multiple successful industries and product lines. The brand still has its strength and potential for synergy, but not all of the industries that it participates in are in a peak phase simultaneously as they once were.

 

[Christine]

You should start watching wrestling then. It goes through it's fad perioids and continues to be popular. The WWE had a nice fad run in the 80's and again in the 90's.

There are countless examples of products/movements that were hot one minute and considered a fad BUT still continue on. (Like Pokemon)

Multiple peaks of interest are actually a strong indicator that the product is not a fad.

 

[Onemic]

So what I'm saying is that your argument supports the view that CCGs were a fad - not that Pokemon is a fad. What Pokemon enjoyed was brand synergy among multiple successful industries and product lines. The brand still has its strength and potential for synergy, but not all of the industries that it participates in are in a peak phase simultaneously as they once were.

Now, this I agree with. I guess the page of mindless arguing was really pointless then?

 

[Christine]

Now, this I agree with. I guess the page of mindless arguing was really pointless then?

I wouldn't call it important, but I don't regret it. We communicated our thoughts and perspectives to each other, you can't ask for much more than that.

Spoiler

except being on-topic lol

 

[PataHikari]

Look, the bottom line is that the upper tier developers didn't grow up dreaming of making games for the Wii. They dream of making games on platforms that have cutting edge technology.

Then those devs can die and fail in the business for finding technology circle-jerking more important then actual games.

People don't want to see their hobby whored out to the masses? .

The hobby's been whored to the masses since the freaking Atari.

 

[Brannon]

The fad will end soon. Right?

As long as Super Mario Galaxy and Resident Evil 4 Wii continue to rock, the fad shall never end. And since these games will never stop rocking...

EDIT: wait, that totally makes it not a fad. You tricksy trickster you.

 

[XMonkey]

Newsflash to stupid people: CES isn't only an HDTV exhibition.

Enough with the inane "lol sd source on hd so dumb hurhur" comments. Pioneer, Samsung, and all the other big-name TV companies aren't using the Wii to get people in their booth.

 

[C4Lukins]

Well we can at least agree the Pokemon films were a fad, or maybe parents just could not take any more abuse.

Pokemon: The First Movie- 85 million dollars
Pokemon: The Movie 2000- 44 million dollars
Pokemon 3: The Movie- 17 million dollars
Pokemon 4ever- 2 million dollars
Pokemon Heroes- $746,381

 

[MWS Natural]

Then those devs can die and fail in the business for finding technology circle-jerking more important then actual games.



The hobby's been whored to the masses since the freaking Atari.

Really? Never remember my Grandparents playing Atari...

 

[Nocebo]

Like I said compare the sales of pokemon trading cards now to back then. The difference is insane. I'm not saying that some other card game has taken over pokemon cards, I'm just saying that in comparison to when it first started the card game has declined in popularity by a whole damn lot.

So does that mean that every gameconsole in the history of videogames has been a fad because their sales figures declined drastically at a certain point? :lol

 

[Neo C.]

I think that's where the problem is. I'm arguing about pokemon CCG popularity and sales wise, while you are arguing pokemon CCG, CCG ranking wise.

In terms of ranking then I have no argument against pokemon CCG at all.

The problem is the different definition of fad you both are using.